Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Mankichi Togawa]

Haven't read them enough to really care. Yes, I'm a Neo-Jump Era guy XP

Uh I swear you said you have read at least Hokuto no Ken, Dai no Daiboken, and maybe other titles (haven't you read Dragon Ball?) If not, try Saint Seiya, Yu Yu Hakusho and Yu-gi-oh at least, they are kino.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Uh I swear you said you have read at least Hokuto no Ken, Dai no Daiboken, and maybe other titles (haven't you read Dragon Ball?) If not, try Saint Seiya, Yu Yu Hakusho and Yu-gi-oh at least, they are kino.

May get to them once I finish my long road bingeing Kingdom.

 

[CrimsonEpitaph]

Nice to see that in the exact timeframe, MHA 22 sold 65k more than MHA 17.

 

[MangAniMY]

I honestly never read any of kenshin or watch the anime / movie,

only thing I consumed from it is Freckles and mainly because it was Yuki (well Judy and Mary to be exact)

so I do wonder how many of these takes are actually in hindsight or retroactive?

 

[Maxy Barnard]

This. It's just virtue signalling and nothing else.

How is it virtue signalling (a nonsense term used by people who think having moral stances has to be about getting attention or something but go off) when y’all clearly don’t care? There is no-one to signal to, it seems.

One thing is going after the author, but I think it's pretty ill-intended to go after the readers.

Starting a crusade on a work that's 25 years old and pointing fingers at people doesn't really amount to anything besides stroking one's ego.

Deciding to not officially support it or engaging with it is an acceptable position (looking at Viz) but suggesting that people should change their opinions on the quality of the work is like saying that if an athlete breaks the world record it doesn't count if it turns out that they're a piece of shit (that Watsuki indeed is).

Nah man the readers made their choice, it’s actually good to moan at them (or at least specifically this subset of people who try and skirt around or ignore the reality of Watsuki.

And I’m not saying to retroactively remove achievements here. Just as if you were watching Jim’ll Fix It, or listening to Gary Glitter, the reality of what they did colours their past work, and that’s a special sort of horrifying. I used to LOVE Buso Renkin. It was my default recommendation for a Jump series. But now it’s unreadable in retrospect, which suuuucks. People who can get around it can absolutely do their thing, as long as they admit they’re not separating anything, they’re just enjoying a pedophile’s work.

Also I wouldn’t look to Viz too much for distancing from Watsuki. They stopped doing the new series but that vault is CHOCKA with all his past work. But hey, maybe that just means they’re more flexible than me

 

[MangAniMY]

People who can get around it can absolutely do their thing, as long as they admit they’re not separating anything, they’re just enjoying a pedophile’s work.

hm...

makes me wonder for the uninformed, I would bet that a lot of people doesn't even knew watsuki and read his all works until the end, and then (if ever) was told about him.

they can be in any spot of the consumer spectrum, reading the manga from scans or through the SJ vault, watching the anime on pirate website/torrent or from Netflix/CR

...

that would be an interesting case study

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2019, Original Post Date: May 29, 2019 ---

oh, btw,


Gintama 77 is unlisted from the July releases in both shonen jump website and s-manga

 

[Maxy Barnard]

hm...

makes me wonder for the uninformed, I would bet that a lot of people doesn't even knew watsuki and read his all works until the end, and then (if ever) was told about him.

they can be in any spot of the consumer spectrum, reading the manga from scans or through the SJ vault, watching the anime on pirate website/torrent or from Netflix/CR

...

that would be an interesting case study

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2019, Original Post Date: May 29, 2019 ---

oh, btw,


Gintama 77 is unlisted from the July releases in both shonen jump website and s-manga

Oh definitely, there’s all sorts of interesting ideas surrounding this. Anime viewers in particular aren’t as likely to know anything about all this.

*sees gintama news*
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it’s not gonna end again is it. This is it forever.

 

[Neala897]

Gintama 77 is unlisted from the July releases in both shonen jump website and s-manga

So much for "Final Lesson"
But at this point does anybody still have any doubts that Shueish is as much behind this as Gorilla?

 

[Rain Spectre]

I mean, Roman Polanski literally raped a 13 year old girl and had to flee the country to escape charges, and yet Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and The Pianist are all considered some of the greatest films of all time (the last was even over a decade after his conviction). I'm willing to bet that, in five years, mostly everyone will have forgotten what Watsuki did, sadly.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

So guys, imagine Shonen Jump has 5toubun, and WSM has We Never Learn. How would both magazine and both titles perform compared with current situation?

 

[Rain Spectre]

So guys, imagine Shonen Jump has 5toubun, and WSM has We Never Learn. How would both magazine and both titles perform compared with current situation?

..Why would this be so interesting, exactly?

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

..Why would this be so interesting, exactly?

...Why must you put objections to everything, exactly? If is not interesting for you, we can't comment stuff?

 

[MangAniMY]

So guys, imagine Shonen Jump has 5toubun, and WSM has We Never Learn. How would both magazine and both titles perform compared with current situation?

5tobun would have risen faster and WNL would have peaked later

hypothetically saying anime aired at the same time + same volume as current situation . nothing really changed right now in terms of sales


though we disregarding editors influences here.

 

[Rain Spectre]

5tobun would have risen faster and WNL would have peaked later

hypothetically saying anime aired at the same time + same volume as current situation . nothing really changed right now in terms of sales


though we disregarding editors influences here.

Exactly. The meteoric rise of Quintuplets over-night wouldn't have happened because Jump, since at the very least Nakano took over, actually bothers to advertise stuff.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

5tobun would have risen faster and WNL would have peaked later

hypothetically saying anime aired at the same time + same volume as current situation . nothing really changed right now in terms of sales


though we disregarding editors influences here.

Dunno about the WNL part. Anime isn't being succesful at all, and manga sales aren't so spectacular. I think is first time in years a manga from Shonen Jump loses against a WSM manga in direct competition, both titles being same genre. I think WNL would be struggling against the other not so succesful WSM romcoms (KanoKari mainly; but well, KanoKari still hasn't anime adaptation).

EDIT: I'm imagining 5toubun by Jump. Being a WSM title, it has beat freaking Haikyuu in sales. WSM titles are less known and popular in general terms than Jump titles, being the main magazine, and the one with more spotlight. I'm wondering if a Jump 5toubun would have manage to beat MHA and even Neverland.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

I mean, Roman Polanski literally raped a 13 year old girl and had to flee the country to escape charges, and yet Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and The Pianist are all considered some of the greatest films of all time (the last was even over a decade after his conviction). I'm willing to bet that, in five years, mostly everyone will have forgotten what Watsuki did, sadly.

Cynically you’re probably right but also fuck Roman Polanski and his wanky films providing him a cover of respectability over his being a child rapist.

And there’s the rub isn’t it. At the end of the day enough people will forget or become comfortable with this stuff that it goes away. Mark Wahlberg crippled a guy, Michael Jackson is forever a controversial figure. Mel Gibson is just the worst. But we all have our points where we just let it go I guess.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Cynically you’re probably right but also fuck Roman Polanski and his wanky films providing him a cover of respectability over his being a child rapist.

And there’s the rub isn’t it. At the end of the day enough people will forget or become comfortable with this stuff that it goes away. Mark Wahlberg crippled a guy, Michael Jackson is forever a controversial figure. Mel Gibson is just the worst. But we all have our points where we just let it go I guess.

Going back to your point about it being truly impossible to separate art from the artists, The Pianist is literally impossible to separate from Polanski (it's modeled on his childhood in Warsaw) and was given massive praise from the Academy despite Polanski having been a fugitive for a good decade by that point.

Also, the fact that I don't even know what you're talking about with Mark Whalberg kinda proves that your point in action, TBH.

 

[supercow297]

How is it virtue signalling (a nonsense term used by people who think having moral stances has to be about getting attention or something but go off) when y’all clearly don’t care? There is no-one to signal to, it seems.


Nah man the readers made their choice, it’s actually good to moan at them (or at least specifically this subset of people who try and skirt around or ignore the reality of Watsuki.

And I’m not saying to retroactively remove achievements here. Just as if you were watching Jim’ll Fix It, or listening to Gary Glitter, the reality of what they did colours their past work, and that’s a special sort of horrifying. I used to LOVE Buso Renkin. It was my default recommendation for a Jump series. But now it’s unreadable in retrospect, which suuuucks. People who can get around it can absolutely do their thing, as long as they admit they’re not separating anything, they’re just enjoying a pedophile’s work.

Also I wouldn’t look to Viz too much for distancing from Watsuki. They stopped doing the new series but that vault is CHOCKA with all his past work. But hey, maybe that just means they’re more flexible than me

virtue signalling
noun
noun: virtue signalling; noun: virtue signaling

1. the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
   "it's noticeable how often virtue signalling consists of saying you hate things"

You are publicly expressing opinions intended to demonstrate how you are taking the morally correct perspective on the issue of Rurouni's author's misconduct. It's literally the definition. "No one to signal to" in a message board full of people, top kek.

"People who can get around it can absolutely do their thing, as long as they admit they’re not separating anything, they’re just enjoying a pedophile’s work."

This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Why are you only permitting (in all your infinite power) people to enjoy a work once they've recalled the sins of the author? What does this have to do with anything?

I find it pathetic that people can drop something they love simply due to the circumstances around which that thing was created. The author's actions don't color his work at all. You as a sensitive, easily emotional person can choose to think that now his works are "unreadable in retrospect" but we don't need you telling the rest of the world that we're doing it wrong.

If I went too far please let me know, I like this board and don't want to be banned. I heard some other guy "went off" here and got banned after all.

 

[Serinox]

And there’s the rub isn’t it. At the end of the day enough people will forget or become comfortable with this stuff that it goes away. Mark Wahlberg crippled a guy, Michael Jackson is forever a controversial figure. Mel Gibson is just the worst. But we all have our points where we just let it go I guess.

Or people can simply enjoy a work of fiction while still acknowledging that the creator has done terrible things. You can do both, it's not impossible. You can watch L.A. Confidential or American Beauty and enjoy it, while still recognizing what a piece of shit Kevin Spacey was IRL. You can still listen to I Believe I Can Fly and enjoy while still acknoledging that R. Kelly is a literally a gigantic piece of human garbage.

Just because they like something, doesn't mean they are comfortable with the misdeeds of the creators. And there is also a difference between old stuff before you knew about it and new stuff after you knew about it, but that's for everyone to decide on their own.

 

[CrOF]

Imagine using virtue signaling and "top kek" unironically.