Chapter Tower of God Chapter 433 Discussion / 434 Predictions

[Jubei_Kibagami]

We have not seen family heads use Shinwyru but Urek has. On the FOD he said Baam used the same shinsuu as the FH. That is why is speculated Baam was from outside the tower.

Zahard used it, and I'm not sure but Eduan at least talked about it if not also used it - both on the data floor. I'm not suggesting 10FH cannot use it, just that arguing that just because we haven't seen ____ use it doesn't mean they can't. Again, we didn't know Akryung could until we saw him use it. Does that hold true to Enne? IDK, do you?

As for the exercise... Cloned? Boy sure are opening up a can of worms here. lol.

That's the idea lol.

In the traditional sense, cloned merely means the same DNA (genetically the same). However, as evidenced in science, a cloned being is not the same nor is it the original.

A clone is, by nature, the exact same in every way genetically with the exact same physical traits manifested (short of copy error). How it is handled legally is another matter.

Legally, the clone does not inherit the rights and privileges of the original either.

No, but they have every PHYSICAL trait(s). And possibly the same legal status depending on the circumstance and location.

If the 'law' is anything that comes from outside the tower isn't subject to the tower, then a clone would be afforded the same rights/exemptions as the genetic material is entirely foreign.

If you aren't already aware legal rights to genetic material, genetic ownership, and genetics-based property rights are debated as unsettled, gray areas IRL. After all, we're talking about what the legal designation of such material would be. I can't say with certainty how the tower would handle it. Some here seem to have a link to SIU's thoughts on the matter though... (or they think they do - not you per se)

Also, a clone is a point in time and due to natural mutation, such as aging, the exact copy (clone) begins to diverge from the parent.

I agree, but this is beside the point. I'm not arguing clones stay the exact same down to hair-count indefinitely, but that they both have the exact same physical traits genetically and thus same potential. How that plays out in the randomness of life is another story (does one twin get a scar the other doesn't get? irrelevant). I'm not asking if a Zahard clone has legal claim to the throne. But, wouldn't they have the same unlimited potential as that is a physical trait?

I don't think we are suggesting it is genetics that makes you an irregular but how you are subject to the rules of the tower.

I am lol. Well, I am and I'm not. As I have repeatedly pointed out 'irregular' is a designation, a title. There are legal aspects, physical aspects, and political aspects to being an irregular in the tower. See: whether OG13 qualify (they both do and don't). Ignore the title. We don't know how gray areas are handled by the tower in a legal aspect. And physical traits should be the same.

That being said, I think anything born in the tower is subject to the myriad of rules of the tower.

I respect this opinion. That could very well be how the tower handles it. See my analogy of diplomats to show that it is more than possible for foreigners to have complicated legal status IRL, and there's no need to be definitive about how the tower would handle such events when it is fantastical and has even greater possibilities than legal dealings IRL. To reiterate, children of a entirely foreign family of diplomats are NOT citizens while children with one native parent and one diplomat ARE. Then, there's dual-citizenship. The point is it can get as complicated or as clear cut as SIU wants to go. But, he has repeatedly shown there are exceptions to every rule.

We should not pretend to know or understand all these rules and that complicates everything. However, I would speculate, Zahards clone made within the tower would NOT be an irregular while a clone made outside the tower would be an irregular. Enne was born to the tower and is more than just one of its denizens, she is subject to the tower. IMO

For reference, in the Star Wars EU, Palpatine clones himself. Palpatine (Sheev, the Emperor) is a very special being in SW. However, his clones share his abilities to the fullest. Even though they are not the original, and arguably have a different soul, they share the same special, and very rare, traits of being an extremely strong force-user.

I'm not suggesting everything is the same as everything else. But there is precedent not only IRL but in other fantasies that could leave room for loopholes such as full-blood exemptions. Even ToG, as I have shown, repeatedly shows there are exceptions to many tower 'rules'.

It's merely a matter of how the rules of the tower play out. Since this is a question of 'law' or a legal designation then we should hold our judgments until we are 100% sure of how the tower 'laws' play out. With seemingly endless possibilities for exemptions I don't see how it's such a foreign idea that it's completely implausible or impossible even.

I get this is an unpopular opinion lol. No one has to agree. I suspect there's something there though.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2019 ---

They were born INSIDE the tower, hence they are natives in the tower. They didn't physically come from the outside.

Their genetic material is entirely foreign, from outside the tower. In this sense, yes, they did physically come from the outside.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019 ---

The twins are offspring of the Ha/Ari family leaders. They belong to the Ha family and have a rivalry about who's the heir of the family.
Jinsung probably is son of one of them.

Yeah, read my post to @Davy Clyde above. I had forgotten about them as they are but a footnote. We know absolutely nothing about them. They don't add credence to or against my theory. We don't know what we don't know in regards to them - not even their gender.

 

[Orbs2op]

what capacity? ....you can can control shinsoo how much and however you want if you have the ability to control it or rights to control it for reg and irreg

Irregulars has higer capacity for shinsu than regulars granted to them, bam capacity for normal shinsu use is still that of an regular a extremely one but a regular still and nothing is wrong with that, it will increase the further he climbs naturally cause the shinsu is denser on higher floors, people get strong with time.

the loops is classified as concentrated shinsu control, it's clearly different class from normal shinsu that ranker and highrankers uses, the difference is the capacity of shinsu they cantrol, without the loop bam is not filling that gap over night, that all the evidence you need, the reason he hasn't master the loop yet cause it gonna swap out normal shinsu control eventually, when that happens no regulars are gonna stand a chance and all conflicts with them is gonna be called a plotholes, if bam doesn't cut them in 2 instantly, that bad story telling.

Kallavan is like what 3000+ yrs old and had eob for all that time, beating high rankers and collecting them as subordinates, but bam is gonna beat with couple years of training cause irregular that ridiculous, bam now starting to give FH vibe off him his real climb starts now as more seasoned warrior and growing from there properly, don't see the rush to Lord him over every character to be salty when the loops get put to the side and he is back to being a regular again.

shinsoo is everything here.. remove the shinsoo around, those musclehead rankers with hundreds of years fighting exp. will beat bam to a pulp.. this is the opinion those who dont want to believe bam is ranker level is trying to convey, am i right?

Are you reading my posts carefully? Bam as the orb, shinwonryu, both thryssa giving passive buffs, and his blessing, that his skillset without the loops, all of those are broken he used them exclusively until now, why isnt he using those against ranker? Or akryung who is a c class regular according to bam, simple he isn't there yet I like bam as a character and I have said he is extremely powerful without the loops, but the author is clearly trying to draw line with the scaling, everything can't be rankers all the time and fug politics.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2019 ---

The funny thing is I have no problem with bam fighting rankers that a lone should be easy, he is clearly training harder and more seriously, his teachers are high rankers and rankers, who specializes in wave controlling and Martial arts they mock battles,etc, the fact of the matter is that something can't be over come without experience and time, he has to grow like everyone else he is not urek, he didn't come into the tower broken the exact opposite.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Besides Baam and Enne, who? I'm open to others, and I think others may qualify. I have said I wouldn't be surprised if Baek and other very high rankers also meet this criteria.



I'm trying to remember who the heck you're talking about here. Are they pure-blooded or from family offspring thus watered-down so to speak? The only twins I remember are the princesses, and they are Lo Po Bia...



The implication is that is a pretty rare event. Not that it can't happen but when it does it's a big deal. well.

Check on family members. Its in the official lore.

Ha Family

The Ha Family (하 가문, Ha Gamun) is one of the 10 Great Families lead by Ha Yurin. Ha Yurin had twins with another Great Family leader, Ari Han, yet they never married.[2] Staying unmarried--although she had many other relationships since--she never gave birth again. Because of this, the Ha Family...

towerofgod.fandom.com

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Check on family members. Its in the official lore.

Ha Family

The Ha Family (하 가문, Ha Gamun) is one of the 10 Great Families lead by Ha Yurin. Ha Yurin had twins with another Great Family leader, Ari Han, yet they never married.[2] Staying unmarried--although she had many other relationships since--she never gave birth again. Because of this, the Ha Family...

towerofgod.fandom.com

Yessir, and I did respond about them in two previous posts up above.

 

[Turtle hunter]

For people who likes assuming things . The english version of 430 tower is out . And the attack tha Baam has use to defeat Akryung was didn' posses an name . And when Baam used it on the ranker is tecnique xas blue dragon . So i think the technique that used on the ranker was more powerful , and that there is more technique in the shinsoo loops . I think i understand how it fonctions , you can recharge it how you whants it . It is like a big reservoir of Shinsoo that you can use whenever and wherever you whant . And you draw from it as much shinsoo that you whants . So of course they could much more stronger tehnique . And it is quite obvious YHS said that it could be the skil that make him beat Kallavan . Secondly Baam attack on Akyung was very powerful . I dont even know how many building he destroyed . You can se the impact it is quite amazing , definitely ranker level attack . Furthemore about people who said that Baam technique was not in ranker level i dont know what you are using to make that assumptions , but it is quite false , there is a rank between ranker , and a ranker envoy will not be a pushover . Before Baam attacked him , the ranker envoy took one attack of the ranker that is now helping Baam . And he stood up like nothing . So please people read the damn context . The guy took a attack of the 8 in charge in Yama army . Stop assuming things just because you dont whant Baam to be at ranker level , when all he has shown us , is that he has . The Baam that we are seing in this arc is the most relaxed one that i have seen in all tower of god arcs . Even when against a ranker e never was afraid .

 

[Jammin]

Chapter is out on fast pass.

Karaka once again shows his tsundere side.

 

[Jammin]

@Jammin: now that you're caught up maybe moving the Enne side conversation to a new thread is a good idea? I didn't want to ping you before you'd reached this chapter, but it's a very off-topic discussion for chapter 433.

Don't hesitate to PM me or Poms when something needs doing. No need to wait.

And your right this is all way off topic and completely irrelevent to chapter discussion. I'll move it all to an Enne Discussion thread. Eventually. Sorting through this is going to take a minute or two.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 10, 2019 ---

People please remember the chapter threads are meant for chapter discussion. If your not discussing the chapter, or anything relating to the chapter, your off topic and this is not the correct place to have those conversations.

The correct place to do that is in the discussion threads. If one doesn't exist for what you want to talk about. I encourage you to make one.

 

[kkck]

One bit that I found weird is what madoraco said about the ladle... We know seto is sleeping or something but this looks like madoraco needs the ladle to revive seto.

 

[ivaannom]

It's finally confirmed Karaka's gender?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It's finally confirmed Karaka's gender?

If trans is correct, it's hard to deny SIU is calling Karaka a male. Unless to throw of the scent some have Karaka's a female. SIU has to call Karaka SOMETHING, and I'm guessing he won't use xer/zer or whatever it is.

FWIW, I think Evankhell was referred to as a male for the longest.

Also, confirms Chang is D. E. D., ded. Will AA revive? Maybe, if he can truly raise the dead and not just revive those on the VERGE of death.

 

[kkck]

It makes way too much sense for aguero to revive chang. it'd be surprising if he manages to agonize enough to get revived though, he did take an attack from a ranker. I suppose the attack could be half assed enough for that...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It makes way too much sense for aguero to revive chang. it'd be surprising if he manages to agonize enough to get revived though, he did take an attack from a ranker. I suppose the attack could be half assed enough for that...

It seems he probably took a similar attack as AA. Dunno if AA actually DIED or was just very close. I guess it depends on the limits of firefish and how long Chang is down. Though AA could revive all the 'good guys' in this battle, I'd think DD is the first, if any.

 

[EternalWinter]

Baam casually bending ranker attacks is something though (maybe advanced rankers)

 

[Jammin]

Official version of the chapter is out. Enjoy!
https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-16/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=434

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Wow, the crowd really hates Yama. And Pol seems to hold Gado in High regards. I think he is possibly close to Pol in Fighting ability. He can survive Yama's rage, meaning the guy Yama defeated should be around his level although certainly still ahead for being a Baylord.

And 4th rank dog-woman is stated to be Very strong. She is defeated but not confirmed dead. Assuming she is stronger than Jordan, and yet Gado took her off easily, the Power levels vary a lot.

Which brings us to Death Lady's statement: "For someone that doesn't need allies you worry too much." Karakka is a villain with a Rainbow side of him. Lol

 

[King Dryst]

And 4th rank dog-woman is stated to be Very strong. She is defeated but not confirmed dead. Assuming she is stronger than Jordan, and yet Gado took her off easily, the Power levels vary a lot.

Gado said that he basically sneak attacked her. He still probably would have won a fair fight easily, though, considering how he punked Canzon without breaking a sweat.

 

[Holt]

Paul doesn't seem to be modest and is actually infact somewhat arrogant. I guess its worth taking his word about Gado hype and they're probably close in terms of ability, but even though Gado survived Yama's rage, he was still badly injured. It does seem there's a wider gulf there between Yama and Paul/Gado. I wonder if Karaka can take Paul, or if that's too much of an ask.

Baam managed to scare a ranker, bend his attack and get past him quite easily and this was in base form. It sure would be something to see how far he can go with thorn and his entire repertoire

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Wow, the crowd really hates Yama.

Isn't that Paul's crowd?

And Pol seems to hold Gado in High regards. I think he is possibly close to Pol in Fighting ability. He can survive Yama's rage, meaning the guy Yama defeated should be around his level although certainly still ahead for being a Baylord.

And 4th rank dog-woman is stated to be Very strong. She is defeated but not confirmed dead. Assuming she is stronger than Jordan, and yet Gado took her off easily, the Power levels vary a lot.

Yup, like others have said Paul and Gado are probably close. Yama can merk either one without a worry it seems. I'd imagine something like this in this arc:

EVK > 'older bro' >?Yama (slight edge to 'older bro' methinks) >> Paul/Gado (slight edge to Paul as he still did enter the cage prepared to take Gado on) > Canzon ?>various Starbucks Sizes (probably close to Canzon and lower) > 4th rank female > all the rest including Jordan

Which brings us to Death Lady's statement: "For someone that doesn't need allies you worry too much." Karakka is a villain with a Rainbow side of him. Lol

Karaka is def a try-hard.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Isn't that Paul's crowd?

Yup, like others have said Paul and Gado are probably close. Yama can merk either one without a worry it seems. I'd imagine something like this in this arc:

EVK > 'older bro' >?Yama (slight edge to 'older bro' methinks) >> Paul/Gado (slight edge to Paul as he still did enter the cage prepared to take Gado on) > Canzon ?>various Starbucks Sizes (probably close to Canzon and lower) > 4th rank female > all the rest including Jordan

Karaka is def a try-hard.

I think Jordan is too cool to be left under all Starbucks. Perhaps he is around their average.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I think Jordan is too cool to be left under all Starbucks. Perhaps he is around their average.

Ah, true, I forgot about his most-recent feat (currently several matchups ongoing). There's a possibility that the Starbucks range is pretty great too.

Arbitrarily:

Venti/Canzon (3rd) > Grande/4th > Jordan/Tall...

Jordan is 8th rank after all, so his superiors (7 to 3) should be on par with the stronger/strongest of Starbucks. Without spoilers for current chapters Jordan is at least somewhat capable.