Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[TJQ15]

This is totally true.

Pople in this forum act very surprised when this type of comedy has been used many times in popular Shonen. I don't even talk about older shonen, recent shonen (like Nanatsu no Taizai) uses it.

Using the argument it’s happened before is pretty weak when people are saying it’s just not okay to keep perpetuating the groping

Or they just thought Yuuna wouldn't sell and then the license got snatched away. Or they just hesistated for too long and the license got snatched away. I doubt there was an active decision here in the vein of "Oh no, this manga is too dirty, we will deliberately not pick this up!"

I remember on one of (if not the first) SJ Podcast after they started translating most of the series and doing all the new series, one of the editor said something like now we translate everything but the smut (I could be using the wrong word since it was like a year ago) but another guy corrected him and said they were also not translating Hinomaru (plus they weren’t doing Gintama either).

Manga Readers:
WSJ: One Piece is the best selling manga of 2020
Manga readers: That doesn-
WSJ: One Piece is the best selling manga of 2021
Manga Readers: Wait, wha-
WSJ: One Piece is the best selling manga of 2022
Manga Readers: Dude, jus-
WSJ: One Piece is the best selling manga of the decade

Hey but what about.........

I


I just asked what you people would say if she was enjoying it. Not saying you where directing that at me, but just incase you where...

The issue wasn’t the enjoyment (I know you’re not saying she did) of the act but the implied consent of the act. Cuz if it was consensual and she enjoyed it then it’s whatever, but it wasn’t.

I don't really see how this is so different than past offerings. Is it just because the LCP has the character groping? Because other LCP had nude girls or almost nude in many cases, be it ecchi focused or not. Same for manga itself. Where is the drawing line?

Consent. Characters being naked of their own “volition” (Ik they're fictional but in the context of the situation) is one thing but nonconsensual groping to fulfill some fantasy of the reader or author to do something blatantly illegal is another.

 

[Konja9]

Well, that's a really sad thing. People can enjoy manga without tolerating this kind of fanservice. There's tons of really good series that don't resort to it. If you like it that's another story.
This new Zombie series lead CP's really lame and I honestly feel ashamed that in 2020 that's still seen as normal...

About the TOC, I'm really happy with Mitama's CP and looking foward to its sales numbers.

I mean, it was quite difficult for me to find a Shonen manga that didn't sexualize the body of her female characters on some level (and I really looked for them).

At the end, I could only accept that I would meet different types of fanservice regularly.

 

[yadayada]

Also.. just reading the last couple of posts from the last couple of pages.. has Kimetsu no yaiba sold 12 million in like less than 2 months (iirc the were oricon yearly numbers were published in late November, so I assume they track November to November every year, correct?)

Call me a hater all you want, but I would just be very pissed if Kimetsu ends up even beating One Piece's 2009 (or 2010?) 40million high that was driven by Strong World and Paramount War.

I mean if the hype doesn't die it's a real possibility this happens.. it has sold 12 million so far, and it will probably publish 4-5 new books this year, I assume they will probably sell 2 millions each, that's 22 million.. it "just" needs to sell 18 million of backlog..

I just don't know why I'm feeling like this lol, like such a hater haha, it's probably a combination of me not really seeing Kimetsu's appeal (from the first 9 episodes of the anime, so pls no spoilers because I will eventually continue it) and me thinking other manga deserve more recognition (like I don't think Kimetsu is "bad" but it's only "fine" and when something is just fine... Well it's not "good" lol).

The anime covers the worst arcs in kimetsu by far though, so there's that.

You are pissed because Demon Slayer is over hyped. I never usually call things over hyped or overrated but in this case it's just true. Imo. But I ain't pissed because I wanna see something actually beat one piece more than once. That would be really interesting

I don't see your point. Kimetsu selling insane amounts doesn't mean it is the best manga ever, nor that people think that (and oh god I'm going to get pummeled for this but jeez, OP isn't the best manga ever either).
Sales and quality are not a linear correlation.

 

[BX-02BLODIA]

It's a shame how people overreact towards sexual content yet don't say anything towards graphic violence. It annoys me to see a company like Viz have no problems with something like Chainsaw, yet they won't carry the To Love Ru/Yuuna kind of stuff. The double standard towards Violence and Sexual content sickens me. It's like when Viz launched the SJ Advanced line; They censored the nipples in I"s, but the heart ripping scene in Hunter x Hunter got a free pass; Both under the same Teen Plus rating.

 

[Nemesis]

Using the argument it’s happened before is pretty weak when people are saying it’s just not okay to keep perpetuating the groping



I remember on one of (if not the first) SJ Podcast after they started translating most of the series and doing all the new series, one of the editor said something like now we translate everything but the smut (I could be using the wrong word since it was like a year ago) but another guy corrected him and said they were also not translating Hinomaru (plus they weren’t doing Gintama either).


Hey but what about.........


The issue wasn’t the enjoyment (I know you’re not saying she did) of the act but the implied consent of the act. Cuz if it was consensual and she enjoyed it then it’s whatever, but it wasn’t.


Consent. Characters being naked of their own “volition” (Ik they're fictional but in the context of the situation) is one thing but nonconsensual groping to fulfill some fantasy of the reader or author to do something blatantly illegal is another.

I didn't want to enter this but I mean, illegal by illegal, there's violence and killing. I can understand your argument, but in the part of illegal, plenty of things happens in manga are not legal on real life and there's no complaints about it.

 

[DreamcastDazia]

The anime covers the worst arcs in kimetsu by far though, so there's that.



I don't see your point. Kimetsu selling insane amounts doesn't mean it is the best manga ever, nor that people think that (and oh god I'm going to get pummeled for this but jeez, OP isn't the best manga ever either).
Sales and quality are not a linear correlation.

I don't see your point either. That has like nothing to do with what I was talking about. Read the comment of the guy I was replying to bro

 

[4Eyes]

It's a shame how people overreact towards sexual content yet don't say anything towards graphic violence. It annoys me to see a company like Viz have no problems with something like Chainsaw, yet they won't carry the To Love Ru/Yuuna kind of stuff. The double standard towards Violence and Sexual content sickens me. It's like when Viz launched the SJ Advanced line; They censored the nipples in I"s, but the heart ripping scene in Hunter x Hunter got a free pass; Both under the same Teen Plus rating.

I got your point about the nipples and mostly agree about the standarts, but since you raised it during this discussion, it feels like you think people are overreacting about the sexual content on UxU. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I can speak only for myself, but the thing I'm reacting here is the lack of consent used as a major selling point. Sexual content has always been around in WSJ and while I don't like this kind of content, I usually just ignore them.

 

[DreamcastDazia]

The anime covers the worst arcs in kimetsu by far though, so there's that.

That's so true. I don't see the boost stopping honestly

 

[Halloween]

Yeah, that is worth considering. If KnY's boost is at this level when the anime adapted arguably the weakest material, what's the sales boost going to be like when it gets to the better arcs?

 

[pamuchi]

Yeah, that is worth considering. If KnY's boost is at this level when the anime adapted arguably the weakest material, what's the sales boost going to be like when it gets to the better arcs?

Would drive ppl crazy even more. With just RDL arc alone.

 

[yadayada]

Yeah, that is worth considering. If KnY's boost is at this level when the anime adapted arguably the weakest material, what's the sales boost going to be like when it gets to the better arcs?

I mean I don't know how many people have watched ufotable's heaven's feel movies here, but they look insane (especially HF 2) and quite frankly, Rengoku's fight is literally right up their alley. This movie is a match made in heaven (pun intended) for ufotable's style.

The thing that makes it hard to judge though is it's unclear how much of this boost comes from the anime and how much is word of mouth given how big it's gotten.

 

[Tarot]

I've seen some people bring up CSM to defend what looks like sexual assault in UxU's cover but they fail to understand that CSM never used fanservice or violence as the selling point of the series.

Still it's sad to see people are defending that embarrassing cover in 2020. Imagine how it'd feel like for a young girl when she sees the cover.

 

[101nemesis]

It's a shame how people overreact towards sexual content yet don't say anything towards graphic violence. It annoys me to see a company like Viz have no problems with something like Chainsaw, yet they won't carry the To Love Ru/Yuuna kind of stuff. The double standard towards Violence and Sexual content sickens me. It's like when Viz launched the SJ Advanced line; They censored the nipples in I"s, but the heart ripping scene in Hunter x Hunter got a free pass; Both under the same Teen Plus rating.

Apples and Animals here. Not even the same thing.

Action in a shonen demographic is unrealistic, "Cool" looking and extremely exaggerated. The settings are fictional and unrealistic. The consequences of the violence are unrealistic and the outcomes are unrealistic. EVERYTHING around the violence in shonen is unrealistic. And that's why people enjoy it.
It's the same reason why Indians love Bollywood movies. Their action scenes are super unrealistic and shows one guy taking on 20 with no problem. You don't see that in real life because it's not possible.
Don't get me wrong. Violence exists but not in the form that is represented in most shonen manga. Violence exists in the real world due to corruption and backward thinking bias.

Now. Lets talk about the real problem here. The fact that you're comparing something incredibly unrealistic to sexual assault or content.

Harassment is real and has existed for centuries. Objectifying a gender is real and still exists in almost every sector/industry/forms of life today. Industries have been slowly trying to eradicate this problem for decades and it's been a slow process.
My best friend had a guy blow kisses at her while she was waiting in her car at a red light literally a week ago. Almost every woman experiences a form of sexual harassment (in some form or another) on a regular basis. Little girls learn how to be vary around strangers and older men before they even learn how to count.

Your comparison is poor, flawed and completely undermines the issue a lot of us has had with the CP.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Why would having worse content in the magazine justify the fact that groping is already disgusting.

Also, just as a side note, the zombie character in the One-Shot ends up looking to have sex with the female mc due to some plot reasons, so yeah, he's fully aware of what he does, not like he's dumb or whatever. He literally just uses the girl as a method to accomplish his goal, which kinda emphasizes the idea of objectification on the character.

Am I being maybe too radical? I honestly don't care. This is not content that should be exposed to the audience this magazine can actually have. Other than inappropiate, unnecessary and stupid. Next series, please.

PD: To the idea of the final result of the first chapter can be different compared to the one-shot! Sure, the CarbonCopy Boys experience has told me enough.

....Holy shit, seriously?

Because, if that's the case, then this is much, much worse. I seriously don't think we need Rance as a Jump hero.

 

[savethecat]

It's a shame how people overreact towards sexual content yet don't say anything towards graphic violence. It annoys me to see a company like Viz have no problems with something like Chainsaw, yet they won't carry the To Love Ru/Yuuna kind of stuff. The double standard towards Violence and Sexual content sickens me. It's like when Viz launched the SJ Advanced line; They censored the nipples in I"s, but the heart ripping scene in Hunter x Hunter got a free pass; Both under the same Teen Plus rating.

There’s a common rule among writers.
Most things are acceptable in writing, but if your story doesn’t need to include Rape, molestation or assault, it’s best not to include it in the story, as it typically makes most ppl uncomfortable.
The reason nobody has an issue with Chainsaw Man and HxH is because Chainsaw Man is so over the top, and HxH is a fantasy series. Where as a guy groping a woman who doesn’t want it is a very realistic thing and makes ppl uncomfortable thinking of.

I think the point a lot of you are missing is that nobody is saying that fan service is bad. A series having nudity and sex is okay.
The issue with this new series is that nonconsensual groping of the female character, who very clearly doesn’t like what’s going on, and while the main character has a huge grin on his face, and it being treated as a running gag.

Also, ppl are fully aware that this is a thing that’s been in manga forever, and a lot of ppl don’t like it when those old series did it as well.
It’s sucks that Viz censors series like I’s, but that’s a completely different issue

 

[DreamcastDazia]

I've seen some people bring up CSM to defend what looks like sexual assault in UxU's cover but they fail to understand that CSM never used fanservice or violence as the selling point of the series.

Still it's sad to see people are defending that embarrassing cover in 2020. Imagine how it'd feel like for a young girl when she sees the cover.

Don't try that. If a young girl saw that she would simply skip it.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Don't try that. If a young girl saw that she would simply skip it.

"And what does it matter that 50% of the population doesn't want to read it?"

 

[DreamcastDazia]

Apples and Animals here. Not even the same thing.

Action in a shonen demographic is unrealistic, "Cool" looking and extremely exaggerated. The settings are fictional and unrealistic. The consequences of the violence are unrealistic and the outcomes are unrealistic. EVERYTHING around the violence in shonen is unrealistic. And that's why people enjoy it.
It's the same reason why Indians love Bollywood movies. Their action scenes are super unrealistic and shows one guy taking on 20 with no problem. You don't see that in real life because it's not possible.
Don't get me wrong. Violence exists but not in the form that is represented in most shonen manga. Violence exists in the real world due to corruption and backward thinking bias.

Now. Lets talk about the real problem here. The fact that you're comparing something incredibly unrealistic to sexual assault or content.

Harassment is real and has existed for centuries. Objectifying a gender is real and still exists in almost every sector/industry/forms of life today. Industries have been slowly trying to eradicate this problem for decades and it's been a slow process.
My best friend had a guy blow kisses at her while she was waiting in her car at a red light literally a week ago. Almost every woman experiences a form of sexual harassment (in some form or another) on a regular basis. Little girls learn how to be vary around strangers and older men before they even learn how to count.

Your comparison is poor, flawed and completely undermines the issue a lot of us has had with the CP.

Don't think he was talking about the CP at all though?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2020 ---

"And what does it matter that 50% of the population doesn't want to read it?"

What's your point. I have no issue with people disliking something that's obviously offensive. But the reason some people are coming up with are just... "think about what all the young girls will feel"

No one is gonna have a mental breakdown over a fucking drawing

 

[Konja9]

"And what does it matter that 50% of the population doesn't want to read it?"

You know that there is no manga that can appeal to 50% of the population, right?

I mean, even if a story is for women, this is not going to please all women.

In the same way, this CP of Undead Unluck won't make all women uncomfortable.

So, the argument against ignoring a part of the magazine audience doesn't have a lot of sense, since this will happen with every manga.


The argument that the CP of Undead Unluck is a bad example or insentivize people make much more sense.

 

[WyldViolet]

No one is gonna have a mental breakdown over a fucking drawing

Because PTSD over traumatic events doesn't result in triggers, right?
People can absolutely have meltdowns over a fucking drawing.
Not that art can't depict things that may be triggering, but it shouldn't be in a kids magazine (as much as I love Chainsaw Man I don't think the content is all that suited to the shonen demographic either since I know some will bring it up despite the possibly triggering context in CM having purpose rather than lazy and forced edgy like UxU)), nor presented as one of the "funny gags" the character does on a regular basis.
It wasn't okay with Meliodias, and it's not okay with whoever the soon to be cancelled zombie guy is