Yeah, but only one of them had literally just finished a fight that can be actively pointed too as the reason they are out of magic. Unless you think Erza is so poor at magic control that she lost more mana transforming than Laxus did using a secret art and fighting.
as i said, nothing about laxus was mentioned. laxus is under the witch control. he has no reason to hold back. erza is fighting a friend a who is not in right state of mind. erza had all the reasons to hold back. laxus dominated erza in the start. once he told erza to stop holding back, they were equal. with belserion sword erza was going pound to pound with laxus, for that punch, erza kicked him.
he used thunder body to blitz, that is all.
thunder body aint faster than erza in red pants, as far as we saw
and erza didnt even pull out souring armor, nor raised her speed stat by the most basic enchant.
though, i will give you that erza might have bought the souring armor from the same shop she got that lightening armor
if blitzing isnt way to measure speed than what is
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i woundnt say that, maybe saying that heaven’s wheel sword is equal to laxus strongest move would be more accurate.
both laxus and erza fell because of exhaustion, neither in this state of mind could put the other down.
lol
where did you get that attack was the weakest attack.
i mean we know heaven's wheel armor is erza weakest. but laxus reiko red lightening is weakest move
His red lightning is simply an enhanced form of his lightning. So it’s obvious that’s his weakest spell. He can now, as was shown, enhance every single one of his spells. It’s a basic lightning attack turned into a RL attack. How can people think it’s stronger than RLD: Jaw, or Roaring Thunder? I mean we saw it had the same kind of area of effect as his RLD: Halberd.
We have seen Erza out of magic before on previous fights and was still physically active, they were even injured heavily in their fight that it also knocked them both out.
Erza's heaven's wheel didn't even hit Laxus. Laxus and Erza simply exhausted themselves cancelling out each other's attacks. Then Erza collapsed first because she was out of magic, and then Laxus collapsed afterwards because he was also out of magic. It's not at all inaccurate to say that heaven's wheel matched Laxus' imperial red lightning. But it required Erza to use, in her own words, all of her power. To imply that a regular, non exhaustive heaven's wheel attack could bring down via damage is plain wrong. Quite frankly, a bit dishonest.
It probably is. It's the same move she used on Acnologia. When Erza spams all of her weapons, it's her strongest move. If she's shooting all of her weapons, then somewhere among those weapons is her various enchanted katanas, the spear from nakagami armour, ect.
it did from the scratches that he received after the clash that did not appear before. And Erza used everyone of her regular HW swords to knock Acno out of the sky, there was no other weapons shown.
Why wouldn't Gray use his DeS power vs Mira? Even if it isn't super effective against her for some reason there is no reason he would fail to use it as this is his best power. At this point it's only people who want to preserve the wrong, Gray > Mira narrative, who NEED this to be so. Gray went all out according to Juvia and common sense and still struggled to beat a heavily injured Mirajane who was low on power after drawing with someone who low diffed Gray himself. There is no way to spin this. Gray even said he could take her when she was quite injured and was proven wrong (he struggled).
And once more Laxus and Jellal are hyped as on the same level and clearly put above even Erza in this chapter as they are called the strongest ones.
it did from the scratches that he received after the clash that did not appear before. And Erza used everyone of her regular HW swords to knock Acno out of the sky, there was no other weapons shown.
Even if there were, those scratches are so minor compared to the wounds from Erza's enchanted swords and actual slashes.
Erza literally said that she spammed every single weapon in her arsenal at Acnologia. Every single weapon in her arsenal would include....well, every single weapon in her arsenal.
Why wouldn't Gray use his DeS power vs Mira? Even if it isn't super effective against her for some reason there is no reason he would fail to use it as this is his best power. At this point it's only people who want to preserve the wrong, Gray > Mira narrative, who NEED this to be so. Gray went all out according to Juvia and common sense and still struggled to beat a heavily injured Mirajane who was low on power after drawing with someone who low diffed Gray himself. There is no way to spin this. Gray even said he could take her when she was quite injured and was proven wrong (he struggled).
And once more Laxus and Jellal are hyped as on the same level and clearly put above even Erza in this chapter as they are called the strongest ones.
He would, and I'm not one of those people that thinks Gray is stronger than Mirajane (not without considering his POf anyways). But losing to demonized Gray still isn't enough to put her on Erza or Laxus' level. Natsu with END's power was already stalemating an enraged Gray amped on POF. Erza, if she were a demon, would honestly be stronger than END. Or at least the version of END that Gray fought.
Well, Lucy called Laxus and Jellal the strongest opponents they had to defeat. She wasn't considering Erza in that evaluation at all. Erza was the one that managed to draw Laxus, which speaks for itself.
minor or no, they are still a power up for Laxus because the more he is injured the stronger he is, that statement would refer to her Heaven's wheel armor as there is no visual proof that her weapons are all of them from her other armors.
minor or no, they are still a power up for Laxus because the more he is injured the stronger he is, that statement would refer to her Heaven's wheel armor as there is no visual proof that her weapons are all of them from her other armors.
Look, Laxus didn't collapse from his injuries. He collapsed because he ran out of magic power. In order for Erza to make Laxus run out of magic power, she had to match his attack with all of her own power. Even if you argue that Laxus was slightly scratched by the resulting explosion, the wounds are so minor compared to his previous wounds that it couldn't possibly have been the reason he fell. Especially since he remained standing for longer than Erza did. To imply that a non-exhaustive heaven's wheel attack can take down Laxus is just dishonest.
Erza said she used every weapon she possessed, not "every weapon that's part of heaven's wheel's armour". Not that it matters, because heaven's wheel does use weapons from her other armors other than just her swords. You can see spears, axes, and even one of her katanas when she summons all her weapons. She's been doing this since the start of the series.
Laxus was injured, just that, he did run out of magic which is another factor, which does not automatically mean you faint every single time, you still have injuries sustained. her remained standing for a few seconds after the battle. That image is different compared to what Erza did to Acnologia as she clearly did not use all of those weapons, just plain swords
Laxus was injured, just that, he did run out of magic which is another factor, which does not automatically mean you faint every single time, you still have injuries sustained. her remained standing for a few seconds after the battle. That image is different compared to what Erza did to Acnologia as she clearly did not use all of those weapons, just plain swords
The injuries she received from Erza's previous cuts with her enchanted katanas were way worse. If Laxus didn't collapse from those cuts, then he's not collapsing from minor cuts. Laxus obviously collapsed because he was out of magic power, and not from his injuries.
Erza very clearly states: "This is every weapon I possess!!! Take that!!!"
Do you think that Erza shouting this implies that she used less weapons to attack Acnologia than she would to intimidate Evergreen? I suppose you would. Just because we can't clearly see each and every one of Erza's weapons, it doesn't mean she didn't have them all mixed up somewhere in her barrage.
That does not mean anything with Laxus though especially when he became more powerful than before, yet HW swords are capable of cutting a much stronger Laxus, so there. and as we see, they are just regular swords, no axes, spears or what ever, so yeah, there, objectively she did not do what she did to Evergreen, we can clearly see them from multiple shots, close, far and even after, and there is no instant of a different weapon.
That does not mean anything with Laxus though especially when he became more powerful than before, yet HW swords are capable of cutting a much stronger Laxus, so there. and as we see, they are just regular swords, no axes, spears or what ever, so yeah, there, objectively she did not do what she did to Evergreen, we can clearly see them from multiple shots, close, far and even after, and there is no instant of a different weapon.
When does Laxus become more powerful than before? He ran out of magic power after using Imperial Red Lightning. Laxus and Erza exchanged attacks, exhausted themselves, and collapsed from exhaustion. The minor scraps he got from the exchange didn't do anywhere near as much damage as Erza's previous cuts, and wouldn't have taken him down.
That's because Mashima was too lazy to draw all 200+ of Erza's weapons, so mostly drew the swords from heavens wheel in the close-up. If you count up the number of heaven wheel swords, you get 30 or so. There's still hundreds of weapons unaccounted for in the barrage. When we see the anime studio draw her barrage of weapons, we very clearly see a bunch of different weapons.
Moreover, we've already know Erza can use heaven wheel to spam all of her weapons. She not only did so against Evergreen, but again against Thunder Palace where she summoned 200 swords. To imply that she would do less against Acnologia is quite silly.
whenever he becomes wounded, the red lightning makes him stronger, and that sure as didn't make him strong enough to stop all of them, which means her previous swords was not enough, or that she put more power into her HW swords. You cannot use Mashima's writing skills as an excuse, what he draws is what it is they are clearly just swords even as silhouettes, and anime is not canon, get over it already. besides that, the image you supplied does not those spears and axes, and those swords have no significant value other than to look fancy, that does not mean that there is an established limit of swords that she used for HW,
as i said, nothing about laxus was mentioned. laxus is under the witch control. he has no reason to hold back. erza is fighting a friend a who is not in right state of mind. erza had all the reasons to hold back. laxus dominated erza in the start. once he told erza to stop holding back, they were equal. with belserion sword erza was going pound to pound with laxus, for that punch, erza kicked him.
he used thunder body to blitz, that is all.
thunder body aint faster than erza in red pants, as far as we saw
and erza didnt even pull out souring armor, nor raised her speed stat by the most basic enchant.
though, i will give you that erza might have bought the souring armor from the same shop she got that lightening armor
if blitzing isnt way to measure speed than what is
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i woundnt say that, maybe saying that heaven’s wheel sword is equal to laxus strongest move would be more accurate.
both laxus and erza fell because of exhaustion, neither in this state of mind could put the other down.
lol
where did you get that attack was the weakest attack.
i mean we know heaven's wheel armor is erza weakest. but laxus reiko red lightening is weakest move
Laxus smiling and clearly not using his strongest spells show he was holding back.
Blitzing to show top tier speed in battle is what Jellal did to OS during Tartaros. Laxus and Erza were in a contained area so their top speed wasn;t shown but if we judge from what we've seen pre-100yq then Laxus has better speed.
Reiko is the only attack RL. Whether Heaven's Wheel is her strongest, he tanked all her other strongest attacks.
Even if there were, those scratches are so minor compared to the wounds from Erza's enchanted swords and actual slashes.
Erza literally said that she spammed every single weapon in her arsenal at Acnologia. Every single weapon in her arsenal would include....well, every single weapon in her arsenal.
He would, and I'm not one of those people that thinks Gray is stronger than Mirajane (not without considering his POf anyways). But losing to demonized Gray still isn't enough to put her on Erza or Laxus' level. Natsu with END's power was already stalemating an enraged Gray amped on POF. Erza, if she were a demon, would honestly be stronger than END. Or at least the version of END that Gray fought.
Well, Lucy called Laxus and Jellal the strongest opponents they had to defeat. She wasn't considering Erza in that evaluation at all. Erza was the one that managed to draw Laxus, which speaks for itself.
Erza doubted that she could beat Laxus and said she needed Gray or Natsu then managed to barely lose because of Gray and Natsu's magic enchanted into her swords before the battle so even if one wants to get into the argument about it being considered her power or not, it's clear that Erza and the narrative bumps Laxus a bit higher than her for now outside of POF.
Well I wasn't referring to Mirajane being on Erza's or Laxus' level but a demonized Gray going all out and still struggling to beat her when she was heavily injured and already out of a lot of magical power, is enough IMO to place her on that level. If Gray's DES power gave him an edge over her it's even more of a boost for her since that would mean he extreme diffed a badly injured, exhausted Mirajane (likely in a weaker form of hers) while he was near fresh and armed with her kryptonite.
And even so Laxus and Jellal are being portrayed as rivals again. They are called the two strongest enemies after we were teased with 2 of them fighting one another, twice and all this is excluding the original series.
Erza's heaven's wheel didn't even hit Laxus. Laxus and Erza simply exhausted themselves cancelling out each other's attacks. Then Erza collapsed first because she was out of magic, and then Laxus collapsed afterwards because he was also out of magic. It's not at all inaccurate to say that heaven's wheel matched Laxus' imperial red lightning. But it required Erza to use, in her own words, all of her power. To imply that a regular, non exhaustive heaven's wheel attack could bring down via damage is plain wrong. Quite frankly, a bit dishonest.
It probably is. It's the same move she used on Acnologia. When Erza spams all of her weapons, it's her strongest move. If she's shooting all of her weapons, then somewhere among those weapons is her various enchanted katanas, the spear from nakagami armour, ect.
you are wrong in claiming that she uses all your swords ... in luxus fight
when she uses all of her swords, we have information such as against Acnologia and against those runes from Luxus, which was at most 200.
against Luxus Erza used an attack called "blumenblatt", which was the same against Irene ... This attack does not use all swords.
there is no mention of Erza using all his swords in the fight against Luxus, when she does, it is always highlighted in the manga.
you just need to understand that the 2 attacks were the last of both and both were canceled by each other ... that's what happened. If Luxus' attack was more stronger, it would have vaporized the swords and also Erza, giving him victory. a victory for physical damage literally.
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I'll leave an example
Erza uses this blumenblatt attack against a dragon's roar, if the dragon's roar is more powerful, he will destroy the swords and will sink Erza ... simple as that
Luxus used all his magic power in this red attack and was unable to pass through the swords and hit Erza,
you are wrong in claiming that she uses all your swords ... in luxus fight
when she uses all of her swords, we have information such as against Acnologia and against those runes from Luxus, which was at most 200.
against Luxus Erza used an attack called "blumenblatt", which was the same against Irene ... This attack does not use all swords.
there is no mention of Erza using all his swords in the fight against Luxus, when she does, it is always highlighted in the manga.
you just need to understand that the 2 attacks were the last of both and both were canceled by each other ... that's what happened. If Luxus' attack was more stronger, it would have vaporized the swords and also Erza, giving him victory. a victory for physical damage literally.
Correct. Spamming all of her swords and Blumenblatt is different. But even if she didn't use all of her swords against Laxus, she still used all of her power. Which means she didn't have enough power to spam all her swords at that point of the fight anyways.
My point was that Erza's attack was an exhaustive effort, and that to suggest that a regular heaven's wheel would have brought down Laxus down is simply dishonest. Laxus collapsed because he exhausted himself over the course of the fight, just like Erza did.
Erza doubted that she could beat Laxus and said she needed Gray or Natsu then managed to barely lose because of Gray and Natsu's magic enchanted into her swords before the battle so even if one wants to get into the argument about it being considered her power or not, it's clear that Erza and the narrative bumps Laxus a bit higher than her for now outside of POF.
Well I wasn't referring to Mirajane being on Erza's or Laxus' level but a demonized Gray going all out and still struggling to beat her when she was heavily injured and already out of a lot of magical power, is enough IMO to place her on that level. If Gray's DES power gave him an edge over her it's even more of a boost for her since that would mean he extreme diffed a badly injured, exhausted Mirajane (likely in a weaker form of hers) while he was near fresh and armed with her kryptonite.
And even so Laxus and Jellal are being portrayed as rivals again. They are called the two strongest enemies after we were teased with 2 of them fighting one another, twice and all this is excluding the original series.
I do consider Laxus slightly superior to Erza, though not by much.
I don't. I don't see Erza or Laxus getting heavily injured by fighting Skullion in the first place, and even if you demonized Erza she would still beat Gray. Wouldn't call this extreme diff either. Gray had an easier time with Mirajane than Natsu had with Gajeel (Mirajane is actually knocked out), and Natsu's victory over Gajeel is only high diff.
They were always portrayed on the same level. Natsu didn't diss Jellal or anything. That was just a bad translation.
Correct. Spamming all of her swords and Blumenblatt is different. But even if she didn't use all of her swords against Laxus, she still used all of her power. Which means she didn't have enough power to spam all her swords at that point of the fight anyways.
My point was that Erza's attack was an exhaustive effort, and that to suggest that the damage Erza dealt with heaven's wheel was what brought Laxus down is simply dishonest. Laxus collapsed because he exhausted himself over the course of the fight, just like Erza did.
whenever he becomes wounded, the red lightning makes him stronger, and that sure as didn't make him strong enough to stop all of them, which means her previous swords was not enough, or that she put more power into her HW swords. You cannot use Mashima's writing skills as an excuse, what he draws is what it is they are clearly just swords even as silhouettes, and anime is not canon, get over it already. besides that, the image you supplied does not those spears and axes, and those swords have no significant value other than to look fancy, that does not mean that there is an established limit of swords that she used for HW,
It might make his lightning stronger, but it doesn't increase his MP. Which makes it useless if he runs out of MP. Doesn't really change anything here.
I'm not using Mashima's writing skills as an excuse. He drew around 30 or so heaven wheel swords. Unless you think Erza owns hundreds of Heaven Wheel swords, then there's simply hundreds of weapons that Erza is spamming that is unaccounted for. Erza said that she was using every weapon she possessed. Not every sword she possessed. Not every sword that's part of her heaven's wheel set. She said "This is every weapon that I possess!!! Take that!!!", and somehow you take that to mean "This is not even every weapon that I can summon with heaven's wheel".
If you're saying that they collapsed from exhaustion because they used up all their magic, then I agree. Also agree that Imperial Red Lightning and Blumenblatt were evenly matched.
Correct. Spamming all of her swords and Blumenblatt is different. But even if she didn't use all of her swords against Laxus, she still used all of her power. Which means she didn't have enough power to spam all her swords at that point of the fight anyways.
My point was that Erza's attack was an exhaustive effort, and that to suggest that a regular heaven's wheel would have brought down Laxus down is simply dishonest. Laxus collapsed because he exhausted himself over the course of the fight, just like Erza did.
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I do consider Laxus slightly superior to Erza, though not by much.
I don't. I don't see Erza or Laxus getting heavily injured by fighting Skullion in the first place, and even if you demonized Erza she would still beat Gray. Wouldn't call this extreme diff either. Gray had an easier time with Mirajane than Natsu had with Gajeel (Mirajane is actually knocked out), and Natsu's victory over Gajeel is only high diff.
They were always portrayed on the same level. Natsu didn't diss Jellal or anything. That was just a bad translation.
Mirajane was heavily injured and likely in her weakest form and Gray struggled with her as he went all out so her winning or losing doesn't make much of a difference because it cements that BSS Mira > Gray and Gajeel. If Erza was heavily injured and low and magic in her heaven's wheel armor and Gray high diffed her by going all out I don't think people would find that strange, rather that would make sense with their power scaling. So that is why to me, Mira's feat against Skullion and Gray in her weakest form just supports, further that she, as one of the S class, is not as weak as people on here think and claim and is still comparable to Erza outside of POF despite Mira getting shafted by the author.
