Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Axiomus]

Okay that's nice

It's true. Wall's etherion is literally featless. It was never fired, and so never actually did anything. You claimed that we can say the same about a lot of other villains. That's untrue.

 

[WoWfan]

It doesn’t need to fire to show feats of it’s own, it literally is large country level from the energy it produces.

 

[Axiomus]

For those that don't know, WoWfan is basing his argument off of this. Long story short, it attempts to argue that Etherion uses literal nuclear fusion because Wall said the term "magical confinement fusion". It's arguing that the energy emitted from Wall's hands is nuclear fusion, and therefore emitting enough energy to destroy a country.

Spoiler

The problem here is that Wall also says "magical confinement fusion" that grazed Laxus' shoulders. The guy does try to calc this as well, but he cherry picks the beam instead of the resulting explosion that lights up the sky(which is far larger than the beam in Wall's hands, and would throw off consistency). Again long story short. The attack that grazed Laxus' shoulder? Also country level. So yeah, a country level attack grazed Laxus' shoulders and then lit up the sky....All without destroying a country.

Spoiler

I'm not even going to bother arguing against this. If you truly believe the ball of energy in Wall's hands is literal nuclear fusion and would wipe out a country, then there's nothing I can say here.

 

[WoWfan]

what you failed to mention is that the manga does state that Magical confinement fusion is using the term Magnetic Confinement Fusion, it is simply energy that is equal to Country level, remember, Quality over Quantity. You don't have to argue simply because you do not want to see that, that is what the Manga states

The ball is worth calcing because it is literally a ball of NF plasma and you can tell it's energy from Radiation Energy Calcing

 

[Axiomus]

what you failed to mention is that the manga does state that Magical confinement fusion is using the term Magnetic Confinement Fusion, it is simply energy that is equal to Country level, remember, Quality over Quantity. You don't have to argue simply because you do not want to see that, that is what the Manga states

The ball is worth calcing because it is literally a ball of NF plasma and you can tell it's energy from Radiation Energy Calcing

No, it doesn't. The English translator made a note in one of the volumes saying that is what he thinks magical confine fusion meant. The Japanese manga doesn't have this (because you don't need translation) and so the term nuclear fusion doesn't show up anywhere.

Spoiler

 

[WoWfan]

No, it doesn't. The English translator made a note in one of the volumes saying that is what he thinks magical confine fusion meant. The Japanese manga doesn't have this (because you don't need translation) and so the term nuclear fusion doesn't show up anywhere.

Spoiler

That doesn't change what it is translated as, which is based on what the Nuclear Fusion is in the manga, and it is heat base and uses Phase Boundary Breakthrough processes which is part of a nuclear fusion process too, far too specific to be a one off thing

Besides, it is merely how it is, even going by previous showings, they even did sections which are based on actual scientific methods done, and they just correct the translations done in previous volumes

 

[Axiomus]

That doesn't change what it is translated as, which is based on what the Nuclear Fusion is in the manga

It means that if you read the Japanese version of the manga, you will literally never find the term "nuclear fusion" anywhere in the manga.

Also, I very much doubt Hiro Mashima even knows the math that went into calcing this. The calc uses the Stefan-Boltzmann Law, which is used to calculate energy output from blackbodies (which a fusion reaction is not, because fusion is not a perfect emitter). Honestly, you won't find this unless you go into astrophysics. It also arbitrarily assumes a 50 million celsius temperature because of an experiment in China, ignoring the possibility that Wall may have been able to conduct cold-fusion. But more importantly, not knowledge Hiro Mashima would have realistically expected the reader to know.

Anyways, I'm not interested in arguing against this. Like I said: The attack that grazed Laxus' shoulders also uses this magic confinement fusion. The resulting explosion that lit up the sky is larger than the etherion beam in Wall's hand, and is conveniently ignored because it would be far more powerful than the etherion beam if calc'd in the same fashion. So yeah....I'll grant you country-level hype for Wall's featless etherion, if you'll grant me that Laxus shoulders can tank country level attacks for tanking the same "magical confinement fusion" beam.

 

[WoWfan]

confinement fusion is still related to nuclear fusion, which is what it is going for. whether he does or not doesn't matter, all that matters is that it does get to that result regardless. And it is a plasma based sphere where the black body would be somewhat reminisce to that of the Sun, that is how you get the Country Level feat. there is still the 100 million degrees, the blog uses that other temperature number for argument sake. Not having the reader know what it meant is rather lame reason, it is like saying when someone says what a dragon is they expect the reader to not know what it is. there was no beam, it is a plasma ball. Laxus can tank Country level attacks as Magic power is a reflection of one's strength which Wall uses for confinement fusion.

 

[Axiomus]

Laxus can tank Country level attacks as Magic power is a reflection of one's strength which Wall uses for confinement fusion

Alright then. You heard it from him, not me. Never let it be said that I wank Laxus.

 

[WoWfan]

Alright then. You heard it from him, not me. Never let it be said that I wank Laxus.

wank ain't nothing to do with it when it comes to statements and proof, remember quality over quantity

and you do wank

 

[Ratrace]

It's true. Wall's etherion is literally featless. It was never fired, and so never actually did anything. You claimed that we can say the same about a lot of other villains. That's untrue.

I said two things a lot of villains either don't have feats or feats no one cares about. maybe Wall would've had more feats if he fought someone outside of FT because most of the Spriggans victories were against mages not members of FT

 

[Axiomus]

I said two things a lot of villains either don't have feats or feats no one cares about.

My turn to say "Okay cool". What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying? Besides which villains don't have feats? And what are the feats that nobody cares about? Most importantly, why should I care?

maybe Wall would've had more feats if he fought someone outside of FT because most of the Spriggans victories were against mages not members of FT

Nobody is saying Wall doesn't have feats. Wall does have feats. He has all his feats against Laxus. I'm saying Etherion is featless, and the Spriggans don't have actual feats of destroying a country. They have hype.

 

[grey matter]

there is something wrong in this

i will reply to your entire post a little later
but i think pof part is little wrong
what i remember, when pof comes in, enemies starts to fall. example erza vs azuma. pof erza only did one hit, and azuma was out. i think it was same for ikagura. pof natsu i think started fighting on par with laxus and then beating him up. but i might be wrong. so i think we should follow your advise and not quantify pof

Yeah sure, I don't know how to quantify POF, but I have reasons to believe POF can't close the gap if the difference in power is too high. Case in point, Mard vs DF Natsu. DF Natsu was amped on POF and didn't manage to even remotely damage Mard. All it did was surprise and anger him. He shrugged it off and was about to finish off Natsu. Another example would be Gildarts's most powerful attack being shrugged off by August.
POF can't close huge gaps in power.

Azuma was slashed multiple times before as well. And the tree guild power was boosting Erza as well, in the final attack.

Ikaruga might have been a glass canon lol. And she was underestimating Erza, so her defense might have been low.

Until now, almost all instances of POF were useful in defeating a stronger opponent, but those relatively near our protagonists. POF managed to overcome, say 20% difference in power level and defeat the opponent.

But we've seen that actual powerups like LFD, DF etc allows the user to jump up a tier or more. Which makes me think POF is < actual powerups.

either how
i have one question for you
after that i will give a detail reply of this post
Eileen example is brought up to show that an August level character can one one shot by Erza with broken bones, once slayer advantage is applicable. That's how big of an equalizer slayer advantage is.
why? mishma wasnt planning on continuing fairy tail after that arc. and ds adavnatge never really played any role after that. so what was mishma point in showing this?

I was talking about why we (I mean people discussing in this forum) was bringing up Eileen example. This is useful in showing how powerful Merc is, compared to team Natsu. Because DS imbued attacks from team Natsu did absolute jack to Merc with < 50% of his power. While Erza, with broken bones, one shotted Eileen's dragon form, once she got DS powers.
Nerfed Merc >>>> Eileen. I don't understand why there is any doubt regarding this. By feats (as me, @Axiomus and few others explained) OR by hype (by hype, Merc's stats are on Acno tier. Even if Merc is nerfed to only 1/3rd of his full power, he's still LEAGUES ahead of Zeref, Eileen, August etc. He can one shot any of them)

Mashima has always worked in the mindset that slayer advantage = massive boost in damage output. We saw this with demons, dragons and Gods.

 

[Ratrace]

My turn to say "Okay cool". What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying?

Besides which villains don't have feats? And what are the feats that nobody cares about? Most importantly, why should I care?

Same

the Garou knight
Villains defeating mages who's power level we know nothing about.
It all depends on you

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2020 ---

My turn to say "Okay cool". What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying? Besides which villains don't have feats? And what are the feats that nobody cares about? Most importantly, why should I care?



Nobody is saying Wall doesn't have feats. Wall does have feats. He has all his feats against Laxus. I'm saying Etherion is featless, and the Spriggans don't have actual feats of destroying a country. They have hype.

Sorry that's my fault
Powerful spells from villains seem to fail depending on the target and what the spell does.

 

[WoWfan]

That or convenience, other than that, there is proof of their statements otherwise

 

[alekos23]

Eh, slayer advantage is WEIRD for Dragons actually. It's more like "Your attacks CAN do damage" in comparison to everything else failing but it's not a HUGE buff like DeS magic gets vs Demons. Ignoring the recent thing about DS magic being effective vs DS too which makes SOME sense but is only really used in Erza's fights. Remember that even Laxus with Wendy were utterly unable to seriously wound Zirconis. Granted they were tired but tired Laxus can do some stupid shit later on in Alvarez.
Then there's God Slayers but I figure it might be a similar thing with Dragons, only weaker or whatever. Chelia barely got to fight Dimaria till she got Third Origin and that barely gave her any feats either, and Ikusatsunagi is a hype tool in a terrible arc that only served to show off Natsu's powerup at the cost of everyone else in the team.

 

[grey matter]

Eh, slayer advantage is WEIRD for Dragons actually. It's more like "Your attacks CAN do damage" in comparison to everything else failing but it's not a HUGE buff like DeS magic gets vs Demons. Ignoring the recent thing about DS magic being effective vs DS too which makes SOME sense but is only really used in Erza's fights. Remember that even Laxus with Wendy were utterly unable to seriously wound Zirconis. Granted they were tired but tired Laxus can do some stupid shit later on in Alvarez.
Then there's God Slayers but I figure it might be a similar thing with Dragons, only weaker or whatever. Chelia barely got to fight Dimaria till she got Third Origin and that barely gave her any feats either, and Ikusatsunagi is a hype tool in a terrible arc that only served to show off Natsu's powerup at the cost of everyone else in the team.

That's because Zirconis is so far ahead of Laxus, that even with buffed damage output, they couldn't harm him at all.

Slayer advantage has to be super effective, even for dragon slaying magic. Because of Erza's case. I mean, pretty much everyone agrees that dragon Eileen should be a few tiers ahead of Erza, yet Erza with broken bones one shotted her Dragon form. There is no other explanation for this, other than DS magic is super effective against Dragons

I think the difference here is that: Zirconis was like 100x GMG Laxus, while Eileen was like 5x Alverez Erza.

 

[alekos23]

It's just that I can't buy that at all. Sure Dragons are all stupid strong for some reason compared to everything else yet on that level? I just don't see them as that strong when Gray could oneshot someone that only got mildly annoyed by DF Natsu by getting a good hit in. Being 100x GMG Laxus is obscene. I doubt even Irene or August is that many times stronger than him.
Hell Alvarez/100 YQ Laxus isn't 100x GMG Laxus.

 

[WoWfan]

plus adding the fact they were heavily wounded and drained of magic so they could not fight at their full potential against fresh dragons

 

[Axiomus]

the Garou knight
Villains defeating mages who's power level we know nothing about.
It all depends on you

Sorry that's my fault
Powerful spells from villains seem to fail depending on the target and what the spell does.

Okay, that's nice. It's got nothing to do with what I'm saying. I said Wall's etherion is featless and that the Spriggans (except for maybe August) don't actually have country busting feats. You're telling me that Garou Knights are featless or whatever.....

Also, etherion didn't fail. Wall just never fired it because Laxus trapped him within a jutsu shiki.