Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[101nemesis]

These seem like good signs for the series considering it’s getting manga bonuses and merchandise this early. Im sure jump won’t invest this much time in a cancelled series.

At the very least, it means they are giving it a chance and some sort of a push to garner interest.

 

[AbrahamOmosun]

Judging by the japanese reaction which is pretty similar to mine

Which Japanese reaction? If you are talking about rain's friend or have your own, please link it so we all can see. Even with that, the mangahelper JP poll that was done put TPGW in 6th (if Stevie is correct). Let's be honest, the internet is as big as it is varied. I'm pretty sure you go to various JP forums and the like and get wildly different results. Better to wait for TOC positions and volume sales to know the reception

 

[westabyss]

Which Japanese reaction? If you are talking about rain's friend or have your own, please link it so we all can see. Even with that, the mangahelper JP poll that was done put TPGW in 6th (if Stevie is correct). Let's be honest, the internet is as big as it is varied. I'm pretty sure you go to various JP forums and the like and get wildly different results. Better to wait for TOC positions and volume sales to know the reception

Im talking about JumpMatome mostly. For example, 75% on there, rated the 3rd chapter of TPGW as "really bad" and 10% as 'bad' in the poll. Of course, its not a guarantee that TPGW will fail but to be fair, there hasn't been any case so far where Matome hated a new series and it succeeded in Jump. The only thing, which might've been a bit different is that the reception of Mashle's first chapter was rather lukewarm (it wasn't rated badly but it was rather mid) but Mashle's popularity grew with each chapter and it is now popular there like anywhere else.

 

[Stivie]

There are things where suspension of disbelief is relevant, for example in Kaiju vs. Mecha fights but when it comes to character motivations, there still needs to be a logical realm where everything takes place.

'Only' 3 chapters, you should say 'already' 3 chapters. Especially for Jump Manga, we know that Manga swim or sink within their first chapters and usually already the first chapter determines if it sticks or doesn't. And because of that, Mangaka give their best with the first chapter of their Manga. I don't even need the first chapter to be necessarily good but i need to see potential. For example, Act Age didn't have an amazing first chapter but i saw potential in it. I even gave TPGW 3 chapters, because the reception here is so good and i wanted to get why. If i would give every Manga the chance that it might get good eventually, someday in the future, i would be reading so much Manga, that i wouldn't have time to do anything else.

And we're talking about a manga about time travel, it's not just plagiarism itself, so there is suspension of disbelief, yes.
You are not obliged to like team paradox, I personally do not like undead unluck, even though everyone likes the manga.
But please do not defend this attitude of the Japanese, because it is the same as promoting censorship.

 

[Ctkk]

Disliking a manga is the same as promoting censorship?

 

[Bodoro]

Im talking about JumpMatome mostly. For example, 75% on there, rated the 3rd chapter of TPGW as "really bad" and 10% as 'bad' in the poll. Of course, its not a guarantee that TPGW will fail but to be fair, there hasn't been any case so far where Matome hated a new series and it succeeded in Jump. The only thing, which might've been a bit different is that the reception of Mashle's first chapter was rather lukewarm (it wasn't rated badly but it was rather mid) but Mashle's popularity grew with each chapter and it is now popular there like anywhere else.

Could you tell me how Undead Unluck and Agravity Boys are rated there? Just interested to see there rankings on different sites lol.

 

[Tarot]

It's not as surreal as you're accusing. It is pure suspension of disbelief, not everything is 100% realistic.
I understood the criticisms of Tokyo shinobi squad regarding the issue of criticizing globalization, even though the author has chickened out and has not touched on the subject after the second chapter.
About Time paradox is a silly criticism, since the manga itself does not defend plagiarism, the protagonist himself sees this as a problem.
The manga has only 3 chapters, it is still presenting characters and even if the protagonist is not good it does not prevent his surroundings from being.
The story has not fully developed.

Death note is cited because the things that light does are worse than Teppei.
And another just because the character started cowardly nothing prevents him from changing over time and becoming bad.

Death Note never portrayed Light as a good guy or pathetically tried to make us sympathize with him like Time Paradox has been trying to. 3 chapters or not, the only way the author could redeem him is if he gets severely punished and blacklisted from the magazine which I doubt will happen. Basically the main character has to have an unhappy ending in a story like this and I'm worried the author might have different plans.

 

[Stivie]

Death Note never portrayed Light as a good guy or pathetically tried to make us sympathize with him like Time Paradox has been trying to. 3 chapters or not, the only way the author could redeem him is if he gets severely punished and blacklisted from the magazine which I doubt will happen. Basically the main character has to have an unhappy ending in a story like this and I'm worried the author might have different plans.

Dude, Light was mean and it took 100 chapters for him to be punished for everything he did.
if Teppei is punished now he has no history.

 

[101nemesis]

Death Note never portrayed Light as a good guy or pathetically tried to make us sympathize with him like Time Paradox has been trying to. 3 chapters or not, the only way the author could redeem him is if he gets severely punished and blacklisted from the magazine which I doubt will happen. Basically the main character has to have an unhappy ending in a story like this and I'm worried the author might have different plans.

The author can redeem him by setting it up in a way that the mangaka from the future is knowingly sending the MC the magazine for him to ghostwrite the series in his timeline.
People seem to have an issue with the fact that the future mangaka is unaware of the MC using their work for his timeline. That would change if she is sending him the copies willingly for him to make it as his own piece of work.

 

[BX-02BLODIA]

These seem like good signs for the series considering it’s getting manga bonuses and merchandise this early. Im sure jump won’t invest this much time in a cancelled series.

FUUKO CUTE!
MUST GET NOW!

 

[Stivie]

The author can redeem him by setting it up in a way that the mangaka from the future is knowingly sending the MC the magazine for him to ghostwrite the series in his timeline.
People seem to have an issue with the fact that the future mangaka is unaware of the MC using their work for his timeline. That would change if she is sending him the copies willingly for him to make it as his own piece of work.

Exactly, this is exactly what nobody is taking into account.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

Disliking a manga is the same as promoting censorship?

If the reason for hatred is just the theme, and there is no other reason but of course ...

Besides, he's not even defending plagiarism.

 

[Midak]

Personally, the biggest problem I have with TPGW how the characters are written so far. Teppei is still a generic good guy without unique characteristics. I had some hopes for Itsuki, but nothing that has been revealed so far grabs my attention. I feel they should have met a few chapters later to build up more the encounter. During that time they could have tried to develop them more, especially Itsuki.

I feel we might get a twist in the future, like a manga from Teppei appearing in the new issues from the future, but I do not know if the actual manga can carry on without something else before we reach that point.
The art is maybe the best compared the other new series though.

Will it survive? I see it surviving the next cancellation round, but I am not sure after that.

 

[westabyss]

Exactly, this is exactly what nobody is taking into account.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

If the reason for hatred is just the theme, and there is no other reason but of course ...

Besides, he's not even defending plagiarism.

You don't really get it. I do not have hatred for the theme. It just falls apart in its execution of the theme. Like i said, if the MC was straight out evil, maybe i would've liked the Manga more. It has nothing to do with the theme. If you like the Manga more power to you. I won't go on anymore about this. Actually i was thinking of writing all this last week but i knew it would get made into these dumb discussions as people really like the Manga on here. Rain kinda opened the gate, so i just let out some quick thoughts.

Could you tell me how Undead Unluck and Agravity Boys are rated there? Just interested to see there rankings on different sites lol.

Sure. UU is rated exceptionally well on there. Meaning it gets usually over 75-80% "very good" ratings on the site which is really rare. I think the only other Manga that get that many "very good" ratings are Chainsawman and JJK. Agravity Boys, just going by what i checked right now, gets usually around 40-50% "very good" ratings and the other categories (good, meh/bad, very bad) are pretty even.

 

[Lil meen]

You guys have to realize if you read the first chapter that he did not plagiarize on purpose if you look at the first chapter. Tepei thought it was some amazing idea that he came up with in his mind. He didn’t realize he plagiarized her work until after he had gotten an extreme amount of praise for the manga. I honestly think he is doing what every person in this situation would do. He is on the bottom of the barrel desperate to make a living. While I’m not 100% trying to justify what he is doing but at least what he is doing is understandable unlike andy. I love undead unluck but I’m not going to look over it’s problem then just go ahead and bash TPGW. I just feel it is dumb that time paradox ghost is getting so much flak (If what Rain is saying is true) when in reality there are MUCH more problematic manga (I mean there are a ton of manga that glorify rape and pedophilia that are marketed as shonen).

 

[tirakai]

Ghost Writer's getting the controversy because it's very strongly related the the medium it's in.

When you're reading a series about a serial killer and such, it's easy to keep the content disconnected from your feelings because it's something completly unrelated to most people's lives.

When your reading a jump manga about someone plagiarising other jump manga however, that's not as easy to disconnect from and just enjoy the story because it's directly insulting what you're doing and what you enjoy (reading jump). Whether intentional or not.

 

[AbrahamOmosun]

When is the oricon ranking coming out? I thought it comes out on Tuesdays (or is it Wednesday? )

 

[Aiga]

When is the oricon ranking coming out? I thought it comes out on Tuesdays (or is it Wednesday? )

Series ranking on Wednesday (JST) and volume on Friday(JST) both in the morning/noon.

 

[Stivie]

You don't really get it. I do not have hatred for the theme. It just falls apart in its execution of the theme. Like i said, if the MC was straight out evil, maybe i would've liked the Manga more. It has nothing to do with the theme. If you like the Manga more power to you. I won't go on anymore about this. Actually i was thinking of writing all this last week but i knew it would get made into these dumb discussions as people really like the Manga on here. Rain kinda opened the gate, so i just let out some quick thoughts.

Teppei being a bad guy would be worse, there would be no way to empathize with him. People liked the first chapter because they saw everything the protagonist went through.

Ghost Writer's getting the controversy because it's very strongly related the the medium it's in.

When you're reading a series about a serial killer and such, it's easy to keep the content disconnected from your feelings because it's something completly unrelated to most people's lives.

When your reading a jump manga about someone plagiarising other jump manga however, that's not as easy to disconnect from and just enjoy the story because it's directly insulting what you're doing and what you enjoy (reading jump). Whether intentional or not.

Guys, you are turning this into an unnecessary discussion.
Rain did not provide any evidence that the manga is being poorly received. If you are unfortunately it will not be the first or the last manga that the Japanese like here a lot less.

Now the reason for the controversy is stupid, like do you accept a manga that addresses the topic of rape and child abuse, will you now create problems with a manga that talks about plagiarism?
There is already an unnecessary hate that harms the author who tried so hard to create a good story.

 

[tirakai]

I'm not talking about a supposed Japanese reception, I'm talking about how I personally feel about the series and saying that I can see the series failing if a lot of people also feel that way. It's definitely getting a decent bit of controversy on western sites at least, so I can imagine it being similar in Japan.

I don't like Ghost Writer because I don't want to read a manga about a character with no talent who only finds success by plagiarising someone better, and is treated like the good guy. I don't like it as a premise and I find it very mean-spirited to aspiring new creators and to WSJ in general.

What will an aspiring jump mangaka think reading this intro? Seeing a series where someone spends years failing like them, and finds success not because they worked hard but because they directly copied a much better writer?

The message behind the series so far is 'Plagiarism will work out fine as long as nobody's heard of the person you're copying'. That's not a good message to send out.

 

[101nemesis]

Ghost Writer's getting the controversy because it's very strongly related the the medium it's in.

When you're reading a series about a serial killer and such, it's easy to keep the content disconnected from your feelings because it's something completly unrelated to most people's lives.

When your reading a jump manga about someone plagiarising other jump manga however, that's not as easy to disconnect from and just enjoy the story because it's directly insulting what you're doing and what you enjoy (reading jump). Whether intentional or not.

Pretty sure its a lot easier to not feel attached to the topic of plagiarism in the manga industry than it is to the topic of murder or sexual assault.

Especially when its plagiarism with time travel because it makes the set up unique and an unrealistic possibility. It's the same reason why battle manga are easier to disconnect from because the set up is unrealistic.
That's not to say that plagiarism is acceptable in such a setting. It's just that the setting is unique enough that you cannot judge it before knowing where it goes.

It's not as black and white as UxU where the MC was voluntarily harassing the female side kick. But you'd find more people arguing in UxU's defense.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

I'm not talking about a supposed Japanese reception, I'm talking about how I personally feel about the series and saying that I can see the series failing if a lot of people also feel that way. It's definitely getting a decent bit of controversy on western sites at least, so I can imagine it being similar in Japan.

I don't like Ghost Writer because I don't want to read a manga about a character with no talent who only finds success by plagiarising someone better, and is treated like the good guy. I don't like it as a premise and I find it very mean-spirited to aspiring new creators and to WSJ in general.

What will an aspiring jump mangaka think reading this intro? Seeing a series where someone spends years failing like them, and finds success not because they worked hard but because they directly copied a much better writer?

The message behind the series so far is 'Plagiarism will work out fine as long as nobody's heard of the person you're copying'. That's not a good message to send out.

I agree with the overall feeling you have for the manga. So, cant argue there.