Fantasy Jellal and Laxus vs Irene

[sharkai]

Would they? Gildarts wasn't left with all his bones broken after the fight.
Your weak argument is that Gildarts made August commit suicide with one attack and that his attacks were too weak to beat Gildarts. The hax argument is just the reason why Gildarts only got that one attack and it all could easily be explained by simply saying "Gildarts is just that strong" like you have been saying for PoF Erza all this time

No imo

Generally, sure, but Nakagami has utility purposes outside strength, Benizakura is a blade purely for power, power so great she can't even hold it while spending magic on armor.
You still haven't explained how I sidestepped anything.
Irrelevant, you don't know that Eileen put everything into Deus Sema either. What we do know is that Deus Sema is Eileen's strongest spell, and that Benizakura was Erza's, they both broke.

What her specialty is doesn't matter, we've seen her performance, no hax, pure brute strength Dimaria, smashed Wendy's face in easily. Claim all the deficiencies you want in Dimaria's offense but with that deficient offense she is still stronger than Wendy, FAR stronger, and yet Wendy can still block her full powered attack. Erza is the same, she was shown weaker than Eileen, clearly weaker, but even still she was able to bust Deus Sema.
As in Wendy, her roar, and the surrounding area all get engulfed by Natsu's Roar

You can argue it, and yes it's possible, but Sting being stronger than Gildarts is also possible, I merely think it incredibly unlikely.
Sure, because I rank Gildarts above Erza, why wouldn't I think he could do it? Same with your Laxus example. You seem to be ranking Erza's PoF like she got a Dragon Force tier power up or something, that's not how I see it, such increases in power are always noted in the manga. I think PoF let Erza move with broken bones, I think PoF restored her strength, made her strike harder than she normally could, but she didn't jump a tier. Imo a fresh Erza without broken bones would've been able to do all that without PoF.

i calculate gildarts strength by first comparing with erza. since we have nothing, i assumed he is above erza by a tier. he isnt tanking or hiting at a level which will break every single bone in erza body. august being a haxy mage also helps here. his attack which made august do himself in, i rank that attack the second strongest against a springgan. pof erza being number one. it helps because we actually see august tier crapping themselves while pof erza did that move


the first paragraph goes back to hax mages. assuming dimeria and serena are equal, is it necessary that dimeria produces same level of attack power? in my opinion if dimeria even produces attack power a tier below serena, she is magnitude stronger than serena tier. her hax should have a cost.
serena =dimeria (same tier)
serena>>dimeria without hax

same for igneel and aconologia
aconologia>=igneel
igneel>>>aconologia without all his magical advantages

irene and august are equal. we can assume erza is a tier below gildarts. irene strength is her power from her dragon. august strength is hax. irene hax isnt her worth (unless she can turn gildarts into a slime). august strength basically is his negation and copy. why does august has hax above irene and yet can still match her in physical attributes?

sigh. my side stepping part meant that if each erza swing isnt equal to her strongest swing, breaking it doesnt mean the same as breaking dues sema which only exists for a short time (just like erza strongest strike).

with brute strength, dimeria will have her face smashed in my her equal non hax mages, like serena.

you must understand if weaker attacks can stop stronger ones than wendy roar should be enough to stop natsu dragon king roar (atleast for aoe covered by wendy roar).

this increase was hinted at. irene clearly said its impossible. and then was shocked by glowing erza charging into that attack. if we are using literal words, then the magic less guild gave natsu his strength to take out FH zeref, we also get erza + marakrov + magic of the dead against deus sema. that why natsu final punch against zeref and erza deus sema feats looks similiar.

you have very weird way of looking at things. for me its simple, equal amount of strength need to be put in to stop an attack. there are no short cuts, sure mishma fuks it up some times. but i know stronger mages dont get overpowered by weaker ones. aconologia roar cannot be stopped by august or gildarts, same way irene top tier attack cant be stopped by gildarts, laxus and erza. just to search for different ways to ignore this just seems weird.

i know, right now if natsu roars and gajeel roars, i dont need to do any mental gymnastic. natsu is stronger, his roar will overpower gajeel roar and hurt gajeel
same will happen laxus and erza throws there strongest move at each other.
same happened when irene uses a top tier move on erza, pof happened, which allowed erza to jump where ever the plot demanded her (like it always does in fairy tail)

and when i saw pof erza over power irene top tier move, i compared it with gildarts. at no point did gildarts overpower anything of august (physical or magical). if irene and august are equal, pof erza is comfortable above gildarts (feats shows this). for the last arc, this is something one can accept

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2020 ---

Wendy was unconscious when Erza broke Irene's meteor. Unless you think the buff she put on Erza at the very beginning of their fight persisted even after Wendy was taken over by Irene and then fell unconscious. In any case, it's not like Erza didn't have enchantments fighting Laxus. She had a dragon slaying seal and her enchanted swords. While I don't think Laxus is on Irene's level, I think it's perfectly reason to assume he'll be able to replicate most of what Erza did to Irene....especially with Jellal helping out.

POF making Erza stronger is a legitimate argument. But Erza doesn't have Natsu levels of POF. Nobody has Natsu levels of POF. Zeref with his 400 years of suffering doesn't even have Natsu levels of POF.

Wendy's roar would get engulfed the same way Rogue's roar was engulfed. In fact, the difference in power level between Natsu and Wendy in Alvarez might actually be bigger than Natsu and Rogue in GMG.

Cana's strongest move wasn't stronger than Laxus' strongest move during the GMG. Laxus still had Fairy Law, which is basically just as powerful with the option to target multiple people.

Assuming that all Spriggans have equal attack power is exactly what spawned the unholy argument that is Jacob having country busting slaps in the first place. Please stop. A remind that Neinhart is also a Spriggan, and not just that.....He was enchanted to be stronger than the average Spriggan.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2020 ---

Lmao. I didn't even pay attention to @Loke's post until you quoted it. Try harder.

Also, Brandish didn't turn Gajeel giant against his will. He was willing and eager to go giant to fight Aldoron.

sorry to butt in, but enchanted erza only faught against red lightning mode laxus. and only her weapon was stronger, nothing more

after natsu, erza is the next exploiter of pof. Not including natsu, no one can use pof as much as erza

if a powerful move can engluf weaeker ones, than pof erza was indeed stronger than deus sema. how can laxus replicate that

Cana strongest move was above gmg jura. my point was not to use fairy spells because they tell us nothing. cana was tiers, i mean alot of tiers below jura

so its possible irene attack power >> august attack power?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020 ---

when natsu used DF against FH zeref and erased his body alongside the guild hall it wasn't a pof and no one can replicate that in alvarez except acnologia.

wahl is immune to lightning so he was confident that laxus can't harm him but laxus raiko was strong enough to bypassed that immunity and gray strongest attack in alvarez only putted invel down he even couldn't make him lose consciousness. laxus output>>gray output.

august after tanking gild spell he litrally could kill gild cuase he was tired and his other arm shattered but august was angry so he went from killing only gild to kill all of fiore resident, and didn't irene went on to use her dragon form and busted a metoer (her best stuff) and they got overpowerd by broken bones erza, august spells didn't got overpowerd at all like irene.

his hax is his magic itself if you don't want to take his magic into account then you should do the same for irene hax like separation, turning into dragon ,deus sema and other stuff.

i can say the same for august too he technically beated gild who was helpless after august tanked his strongest spell and his arm got broken august could kill him immediately but like how the plot didn't let irene kills wendy and erza the plot also didn't let august kills gild and cana.

she didn't talk about any potential she said with a straight face to jose in phantom arc that natsu is stronger than her so why do you rank her above him and don't take her statements about natsu as you do about laxus?? whats the difference??

and i will say it again august=irene but august had the better portayal and the better feats.

i thought it was pof

he was still laughing, at not at all on guard. meanwhile invel had an entire freaking armor around him

if irene and august are equal, then pof erza >> gildarts. you did say erza bested irene best move, no?

that is my personal problem with hax mages. if brandish magic works, she can even low diff aconologia. translating hax magic to normal ones confuses me.

i dont think this a thread for that, but erza and marakrov knew something about natsu. both thought natsu had some hidden potential in him. indeed erza said what you say in phantom arc, and also trusted natsu to take out laxus in ff arc. this is a common theme for erza. she thinks of natsu almost more highly than even gildarts.

what feats and portrayal?
they were portrayed same by every third party they came across. irene might still have an mp boost (like natsu to df natsu)
only feats august has above irene were beating CS because of his hax. that is jacob like feat no?

 

[Seven777]

the first paragraph goes back to hax mages. assuming dimeria and serena are equal, is it necessary that dimeria produces same level of attack power? in my opinion if dimeria even produces attack power a tier below serena, she is magnitude stronger than serena tier. her hax should have a cost.
serena =dimeria (same tier)
serena>>dimeria without hax

same for igneel and aconologia
aconologia>=igneel
igneel>>>aconologia without all his magical advantages

irene and august are equal. we can assume erza is a tier below gildarts. irene strength is her power from her dragon. august strength is hax. irene hax isnt her worth (unless she can turn gildarts into a slime). august strength basically is his negation and copy. why does august has hax above irene and yet can still match her in physical attributes?

sigh. my side stepping part meant that if each erza swing isnt equal to her strongest swing, breaking it doesnt mean the same as breaking dues sema which only exists for a short time (just like erza strongest strike).

with brute strength, dimeria will have her face smashed in my her equal non hax mages, like serena.

you must understand if weaker attacks can stop stronger ones than wendy roar should be enough to stop natsu dragon king roar (atleast for aoe covered by wendy roar).

this increase was hinted at. irene clearly said its impossible. and then was shocked by glowing erza charging into that attack. if we are using literal words, then the magic less guild gave natsu his strength to take out FH zeref, we also get erza + marakrov + magic of the dead against deus sema. that why natsu final punch against zeref and erza deus sema feats looks similiar.

you have very weird way of looking at things. for me its simple, equal amount of strength need to be put in to stop an attack. there are no short cuts, sure mishma fuks it up some times. but i know stronger mages dont get overpowered by weaker ones. aconologia roar cannot be stopped by august or gildarts, same way irene top tier attack cant be stopped by gildarts, laxus and erza. just to search for different ways to ignore this just seems weird.

i know, right now if natsu roars and gajeel roars, i dont need to do any mental gymnastic. natsu is stronger, his roar will overpower gajeel roar and hurt gajeel
same will happen laxus and erza throws there strongest move at each other.
same happened when irene uses a top tier move on erza, pof happened, which allowed erza to jump where ever the plot demanded her (like it always does in fairy tail)

and when i saw pof erza over power irene top tier move, i compared it with gildarts. at no point did gildarts overpower anything of august. if irene and august are equal, pof erza is comfortable above gildarts. for the last arc, this is something one can accept

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2020 ---

sorry to butt in, but enchanted erza only faught against red lightning mode laxus.

after natsu, erza is the next exploiter of pof. Not including natsu, no one can use pof as much as erza

if a powerful move can engluf weaeker ones, than pof erza was indeed stronger than deus sema. how can laxus replicate that

Cana strongest move was above gmg jura. my point was not to use fairy spells because they tell us nothing. cana was tiers, i mean alot of tiers below jura

so its possible irene attack power >> august attack power?

Eileen's hax is around as good as August's is, maybe a bit worse, so I don't see how that's relevant. Dragon resistance is pretty killer.

Not really a sidestep since I addressed it but whatever. Spells having variations in strength is nothing new, and by the looks of it Erza was trying much harder than Eileen.

How is that relevant? Dimaria was smashing Wendy's face in, with no hax she is leagues above Wendy, and Wendy can still block her full power attack.

Let me make this clear, Natsu's Roar wins, Wendy gets Bluenoted through her roar, Natsu is just too high above, he is further above Wendy than Eileen is above Erza, much further. This is why my Dimaria example is better, Dimaria destroyed Wendy about as bad as Eileen destroyed Erza, and like Erza, Wendy can still stop her full powered attack, it's virtually the same thing. Natsu one the other hand? Natsu would destroy Dimaria worse than Dimaria destroyed Wendy lol. If you want to talk about matching roar against roar for Cobra or Sting lol, then we can chat.
Like this for example

Spoiler

Wendy was able to match DF Nebals roar and Nebal absolutely annihilated her, total destruction.
It's not "if" weaker attacks can stop stronger ones, they can, it's by no means a guarantee but it has happened so often in the manga I literally can't remember them all. I've listed off quite a few to you though, add Wendy vs DF Nebal to that list. Oh and Natsu destroying Dorma Anims missiles as well while im at it. Oh and Madmole overpowering Demolition Fist, the list literally goes on and on.

Gildarts made August suicide with one attack according to you, you simply want that to mean that August's durability is weak rather than saying that it makes Gildarts way above PoF Erza. Fact is Deus Sema's durability is just as featless as August's is, and has much less hype, however you're assuming one is strong and another is weak, and that's why it's a double standard.

Like I said, if you want to say Erza got the power of the dead from Makarov or whatever, go right ahead.

 

[sharkai]

Eileen's hax is around as good as August's is, maybe a bit worse, so I don't see how that's relevant. Dragon resistance is pretty killer.

Not really a sidestep since I addressed it but whatever. Spells having variations in strength is nothing new, and by the looks of it Erza was trying much harder than Eileen.

How is that relevant? Dimaria was smashing Wendy's face in, with no hax she is leagues above Wendy, and Wendy can still block her full power attack.

Let me make this clear, Natsu's Roar wins, Wendy gets Bluenoted through her roar, Natsu is just too high above, he is further above Wendy than Eileen is above Erza, much further. This is why my Dimaria example is better, Dimaria destroyed Wendy about as bad as Eileen destroyed Erza, and like Erza, Wendy can still stop her full powered attack, it's virtually the same thing. Natsu one the other hand? Natsu would destroy Dimaria worse than Dimaria destroyed Wendy lol. If you want to talk about matching roar against roar for Cobra or Sting lol, then we can chat.
Like this for example

Spoiler

Wendy was able to match DF Nebals roar and Nebal absolutely annihilated her, total destruction.
It's not "if" weaker attacks can stop stronger ones, they can, it's by no means a guarantee but it has happened so often in the manga I literally can't remember them all. I've listed off quite a few to you though, add Wendy vs DF Nebal to that list. Oh and Natsu destroying Dorma Anims missiles as well while im at it. Oh and Madmole overpowering Demolition Fist, the list literally goes on and on.

Gildarts made August suicide with one attack according to you, you simply want that to mean that August's durability is weak rather than saying that it makes Gildarts way above PoF Erza. Fact is Deus Sema's durability is just as featless as August's is, and has much less hype, however you're assuming one is strong and another is weak, and that's why it's a double standard.

Like I said, if you want to say Erza got the power of the dead from Makarov or whatever, go right ahead.

but august durablity can be weak because he rely on his hax. human irene has no such benefit
for deus sema, i already told you the way i think

irene hax is nowhere near as good as august. august can negate gildarts magic, and copy it. what hax can irene do to gildarts, other than her scales

so you are basically saying if the strength gap is too much than one cant overpower the other? but still far weaker mage can block stronger mages strongest moves

was Dorma Anims missile its top tier move? madmole is defensive mage, not the same thing. and i already told you breaking erza sword is not he same thing

i cant see the panels, sorry. but what i get. weaker mages need to do alot to match stronger mages. and weaker mages still shouldnt match stronger mages best

 

[Seven777]

but august durablity can be weak because he rely on his hax. human irene has no such benefit
for deus sema, i already told you the way i think

irene hax is nowhere near as good as august. august can negate gildarts magic, and copy it. what hax can irene do to gildarts, other than her scales

so you are basically saying if the strength gap is too much than one cant overpower the other? but still far weaker mage can block stronger mages strongest moves

was Dorma Anims missile its top tier move? madmole is defensive mage, not the same thing. and i already told you breaking erza sword is not he same thing

i cant see the panels, sorry. but what i get. weaker mages need to do alot to match stronger mages. and weaker mages still shouldnt match stronger mages best

Except she has the benefit of her dragon form, August's stats/hax have to make up for that.
What do you mean "other than her scales" lmao? Her scales are near as good as August's hax, not to mention all the enchanting bullshit.

Sure, but Mashima can always pull bullshit to make it happen regardless. I simply find Natsu far more unlikely due to how much stronger he is. DF Nebal on the other hand? Doable, as seen in the manga, despite the fact that he absolutely destroyed Wendy. Thats what the panels show btw, DF Nebal's roar being matched by Wendy's.
So yeah, Erza destroying Deus Sema is no different to me than Wendy blocking Dimaria's full power attack or matching DF Nebals roar. Is it impressive? Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that Wendy is below these characters, just like Erza is below Eileen.

No? Is Natsu's kicks his top tier move? No. I don't see whats wrong with Madmole, but I cant be stuffed arguing it.

 

[sharkai]

Except she has the benefit of her dragon form, August's stats/hax have to make up for that.
What do you mean "other than her scales" lmao? Her scales are near as good as August's hax, not to mention all the enchanting bullshit.

Sure, but Mashima can always pull bullshit to make it happen regardless. I simply find Natsu far more unlikely due to how much stronger he is. DF Nebal on the other hand? Doable, as seen in the manga, despite the fact that he absolutely destroyed Wendy. Thats what the panels show btw, DF Nebal's roar being matched by Wendy's.
So yeah, Erza destroying Deus Sema is no different to me than Wendy blocking Dimaria's full power attack or matching DF Nebals roar. Is it impressive? Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that Wendy is below these characters, just like Erza is below Eileen.

No? Is Natsu's kicks his top tier move? No. I don't see whats wrong with Madmole, but I cant be stuffed arguing it.

was their couple of panels showing wendy as something awesome while she did those things? because there were couple of panels for erza before that feat.

nothing special about enchantment. irene has no answer for august copying hax. irene scales = august nullification hax

madmole is defensive. that is literally his speciallity. he has to sacrifice something for that durablity. he could have durablity above laxus, still be couple of tiers below him.
no natsu kick is not his top tier move, so thus is blockable by wendy. his upper tier moves are not blockable by anyone not on his tier. same for everyone

 

[Seven777]

was their couple of panels showing wendy as something awesome while she did those things? because there were couple of panels for erza before that feat.

nothing special about enchantment. irene has no answer for august copying hax. irene scales = august nullification hax

madmole is defensive. that is literally his speciallity. he has to sacrifice something for that durablity. he could have durablity above laxus, still be couple of tiers below him.
no natsu kick is not his top tier move, so thus is blockable by wendy. his upper tier moves are not blockable by anyone not on his tier. same for everyone

With Dims certainly, not with Nebal. Not that it matters, Eileen is stronger than Erza, we know this for a fact, her busting Deus Sema doesn't change that any more than Wendy's feats change that she is below DF Nebal and Dimaria.

Nothing special? You are currently arguing right now on another thread how special it is and how it outplays August's magic lol.

Exactly, low tier move from Natsu matched a standard attack from Dorma Anim, despite Dorma Anim being much stronger.

 

[sharkai]

With Dims certainly, not with Nebal. Not that it matters, Eileen is stronger than Erza, we know this for a fact, her busting Deus Sema doesn't change that any more than Wendy's feats change that she is below DF Nebal and Dimaria.

Nothing special? You are currently arguing right now on another thread how special it is and how it outplays August's magic lol.

Exactly, low tier move from Natsu matched a standard attack from Dorma Anim, despite Dorma Anim being much stronger.

because that is how portrayal goes. if it want produce a shock effect (which happened for deus sema feat), there would be alot of panels and maybe a speech before that.

erm, in a team setting, irene at no point is directly enchanting august. i saying there august will be one second too late. not that august isnt capable of copying what irene is doing. debate strategies there please

with low or mid tier, scalling becomes difficult

 

[Seven777]

because that is how portrayal goes. if it want produce a shock effect (which happened for deus sema feat), there would be alot of panels and maybe a speech before that.

erm, in a team setting, irene at no point is directly enchanting august. i saying there august will be one second too late. not that august isnt capable of copying what irene is doing. debate strategies there please

with low or mid tier, scalling becomes difficult

And if you want to argue that the portrayal has Erza as more of a beast than Wendy was, then that's fine, at least for the DF Nebal fight, but if you're trying to use it as an example of Erza being above Eileen, then you would have to be arguing that those panels actually portray Erza as stronger than Eileen is and I simply don't believe that's the case and I don't believe that you do either. Those panel's portrayed Erza as a beast, but even with them it was still clearly shown that Eileen was the unquestioned superior, which is why Erza couldn't win even in a 2v1. Not to mention the rest of Eileen's portrayal which has her head and shoulders above Erza and I know you ain't telling me that that portrayal hasn't been obvious.
So yeah, in terms of feats Erza<Eileen in the same way Wendy<Dimaria. In terms of hype? I don't really need to even argue that.

As i recall you said Eileen would always be a step ahead of August and that his hax might not even work on her. Besides, enchanting can do near everything anyway. Dragon scales and enchanting are as good as August's hax any way you slice it, or at least not significantly below, so by your logic August's stats have to be on par or at least not significantly below Eileens.

Uhuh, now that's a random rule you just added

 

[sharkai]

And if you want to argue that the portrayal has Erza as more of a beast than Wendy was, then that's fine, at least for the DF Nebal fight, but if you're trying to use it as an example of Erza being above Eileen, then you would have to be arguing that those panels actually portray Erza as stronger than Eileen is and I simply don't believe that's the case and I don't believe that you do either. Those panel's portrayed Erza as a beast, but even with them it was still clearly shown that Eileen was the unquestioned superior, which is why Erza couldn't win even in a 2v1. Not to mention the rest of Eileen's portrayal which has her head and shoulders above Erza and I know you ain't telling me that that portrayal hasn't been obvious.
So yeah, in terms of feats Erza<Eileen in the same way Wendy<Dimaria. In terms of hype? I don't really need to even argue that.

As i recall you said Eileen would always be a step ahead of August and that his hax might not even work on her. Besides, enchanting can do near everything anyway. Dragon scales and enchanting are as good as August's hax any way you slice it, or at least not significantly below, so by your logic August's stats have to be on par or at least not significantly below Eileens.

Uhuh, now that's a random rule you just added

the rule works fine, if both mages are same type. which happens for only ds. if different type, how would one clearly rank as superior attack from other attacks. how would you know, how much effort was put in each attack

the portrayal was erza was doing something impossible. not something which can be done nilly willy by gildarts or even by her equal like laxus

no. hax working, is one issue. here say if august hax works on irene, then her hax should work on august. i dont go further than this. in that thread, my main point isnt this
step ahead is not for irene but for everyone. my last post points at midnight being a step ahead

time=0 midnight attacks,
time=1 august gets hit and nullifies.
time=2, august attacks.

august still gets everything irene has other than her dragon form

 

[Seven777]

the rule works fine, if both mages are same type. which happens for only ds. if different type, how would one clearly rank as superior attack from other attacks. how would you know, how much effort was put in each attack

the portrayal was erza was doing something impossible. not something which can be done nilly willy by gildarts or even by her equal like laxus

no. hax working, is one issue. here say if august hax works on irene, then her hax should work on august. i dont go further than this. in that thread, my main point isnt this
step ahead is not for irene but for everyone. my last post points at midnight being a step ahead

Except I gave you an example of 2 DS, Wendy and Nebal.

Which makes her better than Eileen was expecting not better than Eileen. Are you seriously trying to tell me that at that moment, Eileen thought Erza was more powerful than she was lol? I don't think so.
As for willy nilly, the fact that Erza did it at all confirms that those stronger than her can do it.

If that's the case then by your logic August's stats are equal to Eileens.
Yes, but it applies to Eileen too.

 

[Axiomus]

sorry to butt in, but enchanted erza only faught against red lightning mode laxus. and only her weapon was stronger, nothing more

after natsu, erza is the next exploiter of pof. Not including natsu, no one can use pof as much as erza

if a powerful move can engluf weaeker ones, than pof erza was indeed stronger than deus sema. how can laxus replicate that

Cana strongest move was above gmg jura. my point was not to use fairy spells because they tell us nothing. cana was tiers, i mean alot of tiers below jura

so its possible irene attack power >> august attack power?

Erza had the dragon slaying seal as well, which I would assume would boost her stats. Otherwise it's fairly useless to use against non dragon opponents.

Sure. Erza has better POF feat than other people. But I don't think the boost it gives her outclasses Jellal and Laxus combined. Jellal can block an attack from Acnologia and Laxus can stalemate Erza. Between the 2 of them, I don't think it's unreasonable to say they can deal with deus sema.

Laxus' strongest move was above GMG Jura too. Cana was tiers below Jura because she had terrible durability. Her MP and attack power, at least when using Fairy Glitter, was comparable to Fairy Law.

Depends on what attack you're comparing. In terms of physical strength, Irene is much stronger than August in her dragon form. As far as their spells goes, they're about the same.

 

[sharkai]

Except I gave you an example of 2 DS, Wendy and Nebal.

Which makes her better than Eileen was expecting not better than Eileen. Are you seriously trying to tell me that at that moment, Eileen thought Erza was more powerful than she was lol? I don't think so.
As for willy nilly, the fact that Erza did it at all confirms that those stronger than her can do it.

If that's the case then by your logic August's stats are equal to Eileens.
Yes, but it applies to Eileen too.

yeah you did. i will see and get back to you for that. otherwise you most likely are correct

no, but it showed that erza was doing something far above herself
you said gildarts casual move can do it, laxus is equal to erza, not above pof erza

yes, but irene never showed any abilities to turn gildarts type characters into a rat. thats is why we are talking about this here. irene vs laxus and jellal. if she can turn them into a rat, she already low diffed. which i belive you dont believe in
yes, if irene has hax like that. but as previously said irene and august were equal without dragon thing, and copy and nullification hax

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2020 ---

Erza had the dragon slaying seal as well, which I would assume would boost her stats. Otherwise it's fairly useless to use against non dragon opponents.

Sure. Erza has better POF feat than other people. But I don't think the boost it gives her outclasses Jellal and Laxus combined. Jellal can block an attack from Acnologia and Laxus can stalemate Erza. Between the 2 of them, I don't think it's unreasonable to say they can deal with deus sema.

Laxus' strongest move was above GMG Jura too. Cana was tiers below Jura because she had terrible durability. Her MP and attack power, at least when using Fairy Glitter, was comparable to Fairy Law.

Depends on what attack you're comparing. In terms of physical strength, Irene is much stronger than August in her dragon form. As far as their spells goes, they're about the same.

ds seal does not increase stats. ds seal and belserion erza only faught with red lighning mode laxus

together they could, but then we have to say irene is sleeping while they handle dues sema

all i am saying, fairy spell should not be compared to other spells

agreed

 

[Seven777]

yeah you did. i will see and get back to you for that. otherwise you most likely are correct

no, but it showed that erza was doing something far above herself
you said gildarts casual move can do it, laxus is equal to erza, not above pof erza

yes, but irene never showed any abilities to turn gildarts type characters into a rat. thats is why we are talking about this here. irene vs laxus and jellal. if she can turn them into a rat, she already low diffed. which i belive you dont believe in
yes, if irene has hax like that. but as previously said irene and august were equal without dragon thing, and copy and nullification hax

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2020 ---

ds seal does not increase stats. ds seal and belserion erza only faught with red lighning mode laxus

together they could, but then we have to say irene is sleeping while they handle dues sema

all i am saying, fairy spell should not be compared to other spells

agreed

Cool

Alright, at least we got the Erza offense>Eileen thing out of the way. As for the rest, it showed that Erza was performing above what Eileen thought she should be performing and sure, Erza was probably stronger, everyone is with PoF, she didn't jump any tiers though imo.
Laxus takes effort to do it too. Gildarts? He can shred August so he can shred Deus Sema. How much effort you think he puts into that is up to you

I don't, no more than I believe August can insta-sleep people like he did to Brandish.
Yeah, and like I said dragon hax is an equal match, or near enough to it.

 

[ald7mi_99]

he was still laughing, at not at all on guard. meanwhile invel had an entire freaking armor around him

wahl had immunity why does he need to gaurd himself and put armor when the attacks wouldn't harm at all? laxus raiko overpowerd something like that, gray didn't show anything like that to be considor equal let alone above.

if irene and august are equal, then pof erza >> gildarts. you did say erza bested irene best move, no?

no i think gild well replicate the same thing if wendy is by his side and he well destroy the metoer especially with his crash magic.

that is my personal problem with hax mages. if brandish magic works, she can even low diff aconologia. translating hax magic to normal ones confuses me.

we know that hax wouldn't work if the mage magic power lower than his opponent so i think there is nothing to be confused about , brandish magic didn't work on aldoron who is acno tier cause he is tiers above her.

i dont think this a thread for that, but erza and marakrov knew something about natsu. both thought natsu had some hidden potential in him. indeed erza said what you say in phantom arc, and also trusted natsu to take out laxus in ff arc. this is a common theme for erza. she thinks of natsu almost more highly than even gildarts.

well you said erza>natsu so i want to know your reasoning, if she rates natsu that high and it's not accurate then she do the same with laxus she rates herself higher than him and thats not accurate and it's quite the opposite.

what feats and portrayal?
they were portrayed same by every third party they came across. irene might still have an mp boost (like natsu to df natsu)

feats,stomping CS which had jellal erza tier mage and even above and other 4 mages which combined should be>>>wendy, while human irene was getting handled by erza and wendy, stomps gildarts who is>erza and wendy combined without getting even one scratch before gild know his weakness and used his best spell and didn't work too.

portrayal, him being the leader of spriggan which include irene, the last spriggan to fall, and also there was a panel from a chapter says the battle between the strongest of fairy tail and the spriggan12 which was august vs gildrats.

only feats august has above irene were beating CS because of his hax. that is jacob like feat no?

again his hax is his magic itself and it's what made him the magic king if you don't want to consider his magic then you should do the same for irene and not consider her enchantment, and it's not like his magic have no weakness holder type magic can harm him and even with that weakness he still tanked gild strongest spell with only a bloody lip which shows how durable he is.

 

[Biri Biri]

Unfortunately, Irene won't win.

Her enchantments were either evaded by Erza, or the times it managed to connect with Erza and Wendy, they never came close to putting them down.

Spoiler

I understand that huge explosions are aesthetically pleasing and visually spectacular. However, the real power behind it is underwhelming as Erza and Wendy were hardly damaged after being engulfed in Irene's attacks time and again. Of course, they weren't completely unscathed. They had scratches on them after emerging from the attacks. Those were surface wounds. Irene's attacks couldn't put Wendy down, let alone Erza. Wendy only really went down after Irene mutilated herself whilst in Wendy's body, rather than an actual attack casted by Irene against her.

Spoiler

A roar from Kyria did more effective damage to Wendy than Irene's enchantment, evident when it badly wounded Wendy and knocked her out cold.

Spoiler

Laxus and Jellal were unhurt by Kyria's roar. Laxus dropped Erza to her knees with one punch.

Spoiler

Even after Erza busted out the DS seal true benizakura, Laxus dominated the early exchange of their fight with red lightning. His attacks floored Erza and sent her screaming in pain.

Spoiler

It wasn't until she used the twin blades enchanted with Natsu and Gray's powers, and giving her absolute best, did she managed to fight on equal footing with Laxus. To quote Erza directly, she conceded defeat and fainted after her magic power was completely exhausted. She fainted before Laxus did, who woke up before she did, while carrying her on his back for more than a dozen chapters, during which he fought against the creations that god seed Wolfen created. When Erza finally woke up, she was too injured to even stand and didn't once use her magic again.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Erza's newly developed powers in the 100yq led her to become more powerful than her Alvarez self that fought Irene. Erza only showed the same degree of pain in her fight she suffered against Laxus with Irene after she transformed into a dragon. Irene's regular and high enchant are outclass by Laxus. She becomes really powerful only after she reverts to her dragon form, which enables her access to greater magic power to cast master enchant.

Irene was also struck by Erza and Wendy's attacks several times, with one of the attack leaving her bleeding profusely. The bleeding never stopped even till the end. In contrast, similar attacks by Erza's enchanted twin swords couldn't inflict as much damage to Laxus.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Present day Laxus alone is arguably as strong as Irene in her human form. If you add Jellal and his help, things become rather one-sided for the guys. Irene become much more powerful in her dragon body, however that's when Laxus' slayer efficiency gets to shine and become highly useful. His red lightning allows his offensive strength to extrapolate in the presence of things coloured red, e.g. blood. Before that, let's touch on Jellal.

Erza had no problem exchanging blows with a pissed Irene. Laxus is at least as fast as Erza, and Jellal is even speedier than her. He could evade Erza's slashes without trying, block Acno's attack when she couldn't react in time.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Jellal could force Acno on the backfoot, before he ate grand chariot. After he transformed into his dragon form, Jellal used Meteor to push dragon Acno towards the time rift. These are some of the most incredible feats that rarely gets brought up because it's popular to hate on Jellal and suit the narrative that the guy is weak when clearly the opposite is true. If a more popular character like Mira or Brandish could accomplish what Jellal did, you bet they will get brought up at every chance. His performance against Acno was at least at impressive as Irene's against Acno, as Acno had his sight locked on Wendy and felt grand chariot was worthy of consuming.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Despite his magic being sucked out by Acno, Jellal could push dragon Acno. He accomplish what it took Erza's entire weaponry to do the same with his physical strength. I do think Laxus or Jellal will lose to Irene in her dragon form. However, if they were to team up, they have a very good chance to defeat her. It would likely be similar to Mard vs Natsu and Gray.

 

[Verter]

Unfortunately, Irene won't win.

I'm sorry, but I disprove all your hard work with 1 link on manga,

Just residual part of Irene magic oneshotted dragonized Nebal

Account Suspended

Same Nebal, but in weaker state (pre-dragonized) trashed Wendy in her Dragon Force.

P.S. Even with understanding hype-chapters and whatelse, Wendy was damaged by Kiria only for reason she covered Lucy with her own body. Why you ignore it.. it's a question.

 

[grey matter]

Jellal could force Acno on the backfoot, before he ate grand chariot. After he transformed into his dragon form, Jellal used Meteor to push dragon Acno towards the time rift. These are some of the most incredible feats that rarely gets brought up because it's popular to hate on Jellal and suit the narrative that the guy is weak when clearly the opposite is true. If a more popular character like Mira or Brandish could accomplish what Jellal did, you bet they will get brought up at every chance. His performance against Acno was at least at impressive as Irene's against Acno, as Acno had his sight locked on Wendy and felt grand chariot was worthy of consuming.

Isn't this the damn truth lmao

I'm one of those who believe Acno was just trolling around here, and would've instantly one shot Jellol if he was serious.
BUT, if Mira or Brandish accomplished half of what Jellol did, we would never hear the end of it

Despite his magic being sucked out by Acno, Jellal could push dragon Acno. He accomplish what it took Erza's entire weaponry to do the same with his physical strength. I do think Laxus or Jellal will lose to Irene in her dragon form. However, if they were to team up, they have a very good chance to defeat her. It would likely be similar to Mard vs Natsu and Gray.

Dragon Eileen would defeat Jellol, sure. He doesn't have DS magic, and without slayer advantage Eileen >> Jellol or Laxus.

But shouldn't Laxus be able to potentially defeat her solo? He just need one clean blow to achieve what Erza did, right? Having Jellol here should make take this from a potential win, to a sure win IMO. Jellol has enough defensive spells to make sure Laxus won't get swiped before he lands a clean blow.

 

[Jko]

Oh lord another set of downplay.

By @Biri Biri's logic Wraith >>>>>>> Acno bcs Wraith did more effective damage to Natsu than Acno did. Kiria >>>>>>> Acno bcs she did more effective damage on Wendy than Acno. Don't forget Neinheart >>>>> August bcs he oneshotted Jellal while August didn't.

Let's not forget than Wall >>>>>>> Kiria >>>>>> Irene in some twisted logic that Kiria has better attack power than Irene.

DF Nebal >>> DE Trio by Skullion's statement yet he was fodderized by the residual magic from one of Irene's enchantments. DE trio are fodder to Irene. Hell they are fodder to Brandish who is fodder to Irene. Selective reading is real with Irene downplayers to the point they hype up Kiria of all people just to downplay Irene .

And again, Erza nor Laxus had a significant buff in stats or mp. Laxus literally spent an entire year getting the power he had in the Wall fight back .

A more popular character than Jellal aka Erza did that against far more powerful Acno and rarely anyone brings it up bcs we know that feat was an outlier lmao. Erza doesn't need to rely on PIS feats to be consider powerful yet Jellal does as that is Jellal's only noteworthy feat in a decade and it was outdone by freaking Christina lol. Imagine thinking Jellal can actually push Acno back when he got whooped up by Gears lmao.

Spoiler

Who only scales to the physicality of Doom, Metro and Wolven who are fodder in stats.

I'm sorry, but I disprove all your hard work with 1 link on manga,

Just residual part of Irene magic oneshotted dragonized Nebal

Account Suspended

Same Nebal, but in weaker state (pre-dragonized) trashed Wendy in her Dragon Force.

P.S. Even with understanding hype-chapters and whatelse, Wendy was damaged by Kiria only for reason she covered Lucy with her own body. Why you ignore it.. it's a question.

Wendy also wasn't in DF lol.

 

[Verter]

Oh lord another set of downplay.

Their posts about Irene reminds me "typical" Chinese novel about cultivators.

Basic synopsis:
- main character (especially female) (1) hides her/his true power or (2) transmigrates into cannon fodder.
-- MC rock&roll everything, but ppl around MC still "you... fodder!!! teacher, how that fodder has qualification to be your student!!! Emperor, you're wrong (!!!) MC is fodder...!!!).

Just one thing.. I worry if ppl on forum are serious with their minds about Irene... It's so sad.. for their minds,

 

[Axiomus]

Acnologia's beating made Natsu fall to his knees, and all the other dragon slayers were knocked down. The latter just regained consciousness by the time Acnologia tried to kill Natsu. We know from the anime that what took them down was a roar. Natsu was between Acnologia and the others in the aftermath. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that Natsu, or the other dragon slayers trying to melee Acnologia, took the brunt of the attack.

While I don't think Kyria is in any way stronger than Irene, you can't deny that Wendy is able to defend Irene's enchantments with her barriers. IMO Wendy would have defended against Kyria's roar with her barrier too. Wendy just wasn't fast enough to react to it. Jellal's barriers should be just as good if not stronger than Wendy's. He's able to defend against shots from Acnologia. He should be able to defend against most of Irene's explosions in her human form. I mean, we don't even have to scale to Wendy tbh. Erza has flat out tanked one of the explosions, so Laxus being on her level should be able to manage.

I disagree with Erza needing the dragon slaying swords to match Laxus. She managed to stalemate imperial red lightning with heaven's wheel later on. That said, I don't see how the dragon slaying seal wouldn't be a power-up. You're giving Erza's magic, and presumably her body, the properties of a dragon.