Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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BX-02BLODIA

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BUT I also think it won't reach anywhere close the success worldwide of other JUMP properties like Dragon Ball, Captain Tsubasa or Yu-Gi-Oh! which is fine, it's not like it needs to, not every property needs to be a worldwide success especially when you captivated your home market.
Speaking of Yu-Gi-Oh, I feel like it's so successful I feel like most people often forget that it was originally a Shonen Jump series. The 2000 anime and Konami's card game surely helped to form a different image of the series in most people's minds.

Now I wonder if Shueisha and/or Takahashi gets some of the profts from Konami's OCG/TCG.
 

savethecat

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What’s worse is that with Demon Slayer’s explosion, there are so many ppl in the anime community that scream
“Overrated and only popular because of good animation”.

I don’t know if this is really felt in the east though
 

BlueLagoon

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@perroloco

That's the problem. That you do not know how to differentiate between making known and being successful.

The anime made the world know it but its success was achieved by factors other than anime. And while it is not known to differentiate that they will continue to insist on the same.

Because if anime were 99% like you say the reason for its success, then why didn't everything that Unfotable adapted have the same impact?

Fate, which has one of the best animations that you can see in an anime (and is also from the same studio as DS) has novels, manga, OVAS and anime and it could never have the same repercussion.
 

101nemesis

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What’s worse is that with Demon Slayer’s explosion, there are so many ppl in the anime community that scream
“Overrated and only popular because of good animation”.

I don’t know if this is really felt in the east though
I mean, you see that here on this forum as well. People don't outright say overrated but they like to put all the credit for the success onto the anime adaptation which is just a polite way of phrasing it.
 

Tanzo

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What’s worse is that with Demon Slayer’s explosion, there are so many ppl in the anime community that scream
“Overrated and only popular because of good animation”.

I don’t know if this is really felt in the east though
"Kimetsu Kids" is a thing in Japan so yes.
Definition: Someone who is a fan of the series that causes trouble towards others.
According to this page these types of people will
- Call out other series for "plagiarizing" Kimetsu
- Spoil anime only people of manga content
- shoplift manga volumes
There's more but that's the jist of it.
 

101nemesis

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Years from now, sure.

Decades from now... I wonder. It's really freaking hard to predict which manga/books/films/songs will become evergreens and which will be number one for a while and then fade away. That's part of what makes the current situation so interesting, we are literally watching history in the making.


I agree. But a lot depends on your definition of legacy.

Take for example Black Jack, Kochikame and Saint Seiya. Which on has the biggest legacy?

- Black Jack had huge sales, but there's not much of a franchise around it (that I know of) and a lot of younger people have probably never heard of it.
- Kochikame is an absolute legend in Japan, but virtually unknown in the rest of the world, and the sales don't really do it justice.
- Saint Seiya has pitiful sales numbers in comparison, but it spawned a massive international media franchise which keeps making money and fans until this day.

Kimetsu will be big, that's for sure. But is it going to be the next Black Jack or the next Dragon Ball? That's the question.


I don't envy them. Every series they start now will be in a Samurai 8 position, with Shueisha trying to push it as the new Demon Slayer and the fans comparing them to death.

I'm actually not sure if waiting a bit would make this better or worse. Either people will get over their DS mania, or it will grow an even bigger cult status...
If you're unaware of how big and influential Black Jack was, then please google before making it seem like something having the status of Black Jack means any less than something like DBZ.
Here's an article from The Guardian (not even an entertainment website) talking about Tezuka and his biggest series that defined generations in manga and how he and his series impacted medical reforms in Japan.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2010/jul/21/medical-manga-osamu-tezuka

Regarding it's franchise, it's had everything possible done. Anime, live action, movies, OVAs. Heck, Black Jack had movies released as recently as 2005.
There were even talks in 2016 for a chinese movie based on Black Jack.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Trends/Movie-version-of-Osamu-Tezuka-s-Black-Jack-coming-to-China

Yeah man, if Kimetsu gets Black Jack's status, that'd be such a downer.

There is no literal example of something exploding like Kimetsu and not leaving behind a solid legacy.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Well, in my humble opinion Yaiba legacy in the future will be basically that solid series that exploded in popularity in a way no one expected, broke some records and quickly ended. I dont see the series, content wise, being really influential, molding new trends or impacting a new generation of writers because the series itself didnt really bring anything new or turned something into a trademark that future writers will use and everybody will be like "this is KnY influence". But well you never know, just my opinion about the topic.
 

savethecat

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I’m sure it’ll be successful in some aspects, just not across the industry as a whole.

MHA isn’t exactly bringing anything new to the table either, but A lot of people say that it’s influence can be seen somewhat already. Zipman being the main contender
 

tirakai

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Kimetsu no Yaiba definitely isn't going to just quickly end and disappear, this isn't like Ass Class where everything's out and finished a year after the manga. The Demon Slayer anime still has at minimum 2 seasons and a movie left, which means at least 3 more years of content, and Ufotable's not just going to randomly stop making it considering how profitable it's been.

For perspective, Kimetsu no Yaiba I believe is already the 2nd highest selling manga per volume of all time in Japan. Bigger than One Piece, bigger than Dragonball, Astro Boy, Slam Dunk, Touch, everything except Black Jack, which people mentioned before apparently has multiple somewhat debated numbers? Even the movie's one of the highest grossing ever. Heck, even its opening theme is the biggest song in over a decade.

In 10 years time, we're going to start seeing a whole generation of new authors whose main inspiration was Kimetsu no Yaiba, who got into manga because of it. What the short term influence will be, who knows, but it will absolutely have a large influence later down the line.
 

Koni

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It's way too early to be discussiong Kimetsu's influence. Like tirakai said, it's somethign we'll be feeling more and more of down the line, when the "Kimetsu kids" grow up and become mangaka themselves. It will almost certainly leave a lasting mark on Japan.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I’m sure it’ll be successful in some aspects, just not across the industry as a whole.

MHA isn’t exactly bringing anything new to the table either, but A lot of people say that it’s influence can be seen somewhat already. Zipman being the main contender
Well, not that hard to have some influence in your own assistant series, and while MHA isn't also reinventing anything, it bring the "traditional superheroes" theme to the top of manga industry for modern readers, which is already something different than "world with demons killing humans and being hunted by organization", also being a big hit from the start and going for over 6 years so far without losing any of that popularity helps, of course like some said, being a short series doesn't mean will not have a impact, but being a highly succesful followed by young people for pratically a decade, helps a lot when it comes to molding influence.
 

WyldViolet

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i mean the first few years it's not like Bleach polled super good in WSJ, although it slowly became one of the top 5 manga of the magazine, but yeah it's first several fews it's not like it blew manga charts, right? I don't think that's something that needs even be discussed, the anime happeneed it created hype and the rest is history,
Hmm.
In addition to the edits in the quote, it could be argued Bleach did not bring anything new to the magazine either (given some were attacking Kimetsu for it). Even when it debuted it received criticism as being derivative of YYH.
I'm not talking shit on Bleach here, simply stating that you're looking at this from a super biased viewpoint. It's not like Bleach was any less generic than Kimetsu, it's not like either are the only manga some consider generic to become ultra popular in WSJ. Being generic doesn't mean something can't be influential.
 
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NeeNeen

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If you're unaware of how big and influential Black Jack was, then please google before making it seem like something having the status of Black Jack means any less than something like DBZ.
Here's an article from The Guardian (not even an entertainment website) talking about Tezuka and his biggest series that defined generations in manga and how he and his series impacted medical reforms in Japan.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2010/jul/21/medical-manga-osamu-tezuka

Regarding it's franchise, it's had everything possible done. Anime, live action, movies, OVAs. Heck, Black Jack had movies released as recently as 2005.
There were even talks in 2016 for a chinese movie based on Black Jack.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Trends/Movie-version-of-Osamu-Tezuka-s-Black-Jack-coming-to-China

Yeah man, if Kimetsu gets Black Jack's status, that'd be such a downer.

There is no literal example of something exploding like Kimetsu and not leaving behind a solid legacy.
Yeah... was.

I did google. I know it was hugely influencial back in the day, never denied that. I know it got a bunch of different adaptations and some spin-offs, even after Tezuka's death.

However, when it comes to current, worldwide popularity of the franchise, Black Jack doesn't hold a candle to Dragon Ball. It just doesn't. There are no convention halls filled with Black Jack figures. There are no 99 Black Jack video games. Black Jack did not generate over 25 billion dollar.

So, yeah. Kimetsu can either become a huge cultural phenomenon in Japan, like Black Jack, or a worldwide monster franchise, like Dragon Ball. Both are massive feats, but one of them seems somewhat within reach (considering the Prime Minister was talking about the series in the Parlement), while the other is still an open question.
 
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DreamcastDazia

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Yo I don't know what this video is about but it seems they talk about some veterans in the magazine or recently in the magazine and it appeals to feature One Piece MHA, Jujutsu, Haikyuu and Chainsaw man.
They left out Black Clover.

Does this mean anything lol. Hope it doesn't mean what I think it means

I watched it without understanding a word so if someone could translate would be a big help lol I might be misunderstanding
 

101nemesis

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Yeah... was.

I did google. I know it was hugely influencial back in the day, never denied that. I know it got a bunch of different adaptations and some spin-offs, even after Tezuka's death.
No no no.

You said
"- Black Jack had huge sales, but there's not much of a franchise around it (that I know of) and a lot of younger people have probably never heard of it.
- Kochikame is an absolute legend in Japan, but virtually unknown in the rest of the world, and the sales don't really do it justice."

You quite clearly did not do any research when typing that. If you did, your description for Black Jack and Kochikame should've been the same because they are both right up there with each other in terms of cultural significance in Japan.
You quite clearly thought Black Jack just sold well and that was it.

However, when it comes to current, worldwide popularity of the franchise, Black Jack doesn't hold a candle to Dragon Ball. It just doesn't. There are no convention halls filled with Black Jack figures. There are no 99 Black Jack video games. Black Jack did not generate over 25 billion dollar.

So, yeah. Kimetsu can either become a huge cultural phenomenom in Japan, like Black Jack, or a worldwide monster franchise, like Dragon Ball. Both are massive feats, but one of them seems somewhat within reach (considering the Prime Minister was talking about the series in the Parlement), while the other is still an open question.
So let me get this straight.
You equate legacy of a japanese manga series to how popular it is...outside Japan?

Kochikame and SD are vastly less popular outside Japan than DBZ or even Naruto.
DBZ/Naruto did not get a cover in WSJ when they ended. Kochikame and SD did. There's a reason for that.

Kimetsu getting the level of recognition of Black Jack (however slim or microscopic that chance might be) would arguably be more prestigious than getting the levels of recognition as DBZ.
 

DreamcastDazia

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Hmm.
In addition to the edits in the quote, it could be argued Bleach did not bring anything new to the magazine either (given some were attacking Kimetsu for it). Even when it debuted it received criticism as being derivative of YYH.
I'm not talking shit on Bleach here, simply stating that you're looking at this from a super biased viewpoint. It's not like Bleach was any less generic than Kimetsu, it's not like either are the only manga some consider generic to become ultra popular in WSJ. Being generic doesn't mean something can't be influential.
Now listen here my misinformed friend. Bleach was different from everything in the magazine at the time because Bleach is, was, and always will be sick. Always sick. Bleach = Sick.


But for real though, nothing had the style the bleach did. It also took place in the real world which there wasn't that much of currently running xd, Hip teen style, the protagonist wasn't some dumb midget speaker boy but a man among men. He was fucking sick. Did I forget to mention that he had sick ginger hair. Ginger hair boy in jump? BRAND NEW. SICK. There was a literal chad as his side man. Sick. And don't forget orehime's sick boobs. Sick characters. Sick art style, sick character fucking design. The hollows where sick. Powers where cool. And actually rather unique. And sick. The manga was literally porn for the eyes it was tantalising to look at. Can't forget how it wasn't about some guy trying to be the top power of the world. There was no goal. Just some SICK badass lad who saw things where going to shit and thought let me slash some hollows because I'm sick and they look sick but I am sicker. But too be honest it wasn't even by choice. He was being forced to by some bird. And you wanna know why the chad got forced by some bird. It was because she wasn't some pink flat board unless piece of duck turd from naruto. She wasn't some orange coloured orange consuming cry baby thief from One Piece. She wasn't a non exsistend female from HxH. She wasn't that bitch loli from Black Cat. She wasn't a living doll like that tard from Yu Gi Oh. She wasn't weird like the MC of stone ocean. And she wasn't fucking always on her period like that durag wearing mong from Shaman King. She was SICK.

Can you see where I'm getting at here? Bleach, generic? Brought nothing new to the table? Ney, bleach brought a whole lot of new good shit to the table. It brought unparalleled sickness to the magazine. A level of swagger to fights, the way the characters walked and takes. Even the way they are food during lunch breaks was sick.

Bleach. Was. Sick. Never try to undervalued bleach ever again my friend. Otherwise @Halloween will have to Sick em up on you 🔫🔫🔫
 

Newkerzy

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I’m sure it’ll be successful in some aspects, just not across the industry as a whole.

MHA isn’t exactly bringing anything new to the table either, but A lot of people say that it’s influence can be seen somewhat already. Zipman being the main contender
8Kaiju also has some of that influence as well.
 

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Shoseki Daily Ranking - 11/6

#1 Haikyuu!! 45
#2 Chainsaw Man 9
#4 Dr. Stone 18
#73 Mission: Yozakura Family 5
#96 Magu-chan: God of Destruction 1
#105 Me & Roboco 1
#118 Shakunetsu no Niraikanai 1
#422 Bone Collection 2
 

Newkerzy

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No no no.

You said
"- Black Jack had huge sales, but there's not much of a franchise around it (that I know of) and a lot of younger people have probably never heard of it.
- Kochikame is an absolute legend in Japan, but virtually unknown in the rest of the world, and the sales don't really do it justice."

You quite clearly did not do any research when typing that. If you did, your description for Black Jack and Kochikame should've been the same because they are both right up there with each other in terms of cultural significance in Japan.
You quite clearly thought Black Jack just sold well and that was it.


So let me get this straight.
You equate legacy of a japanese manga series to how popular it is...outside Japan?

Kochikame and SD are vastly less popular outside Japan than DBZ or even Naruto.
DBZ/Naruto did not get a cover in WSJ when they ended. Kochikame and SD did. There's a reason for that.

Kimetsu getting the level of recognition of Black Jack (however slim or microscopic that chance might be) would arguably be more prestigious than getting the levels of recognition as DBZ.
I knew that Black Jack often criticized the medical establishment in Japan, and there are often other medical mangas that came after it bringing up the same themes and topics over and over again, but I never realized that it was that influential to the point that there have been reforms made since then and it’s a common political issue in Japan.
 

pamuchi

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Well for me KnY's legacy will be, more mangas set in the taisho era. It's very rare to have a manga/anime whose story develops in this era (the most recent one would be mars red). You usually see only meiji, sengoku or showa.

Of course we will have to wait at least 5 years to see what will be its legacy, not after months it ended lol.
 
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