Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[SharkBait]

I wonder if Shark & Dolphin isn't also potentially ending together because it would actually fit perfectly:

Sad but plotwise I can see a way for it to conclude at this arc/temple.

Still, Id think Build King would end before it.

 

[tirakai]

I don't think it's a writing issue like Kano stuff, the series just introduced a group a villains at the start of the current arc so the writer clearly has (had?) some longer term plans in mind even if it's just more episodic arcs.

I'm very curious too see what kind of news we get about it once ToC and stuff leaks next week. It just doesn't feel like a regular straightforward cancellation to me.

 

[Stivie]

Does this mean we're getting rid of the weekly debates on Phantom Seer vs The World after every TOC? (who am I kidding, this will never end)

It's a weird one for sure but like others have said I'm inclined to believe if it does end in the next cancellation round then there must be reason for it. In following the last decade of WSJ on-and-off I could count the amount of times I've disagreed with a series ending/getting axed on one hand, while you have something like Bleach that I was confused about at the time but makes more sense when context is given after the fact. Almost every series that ends makes sense to end it when it does. Phantom Seer has the sales that would make you think it should be pushed but it has been in the bottom three for 16 of the 21 weeks it's been ranked - if it did survive it would be a recovery that very rarely happens in the magazine. Clearly something was about it was not working?

As someone who actually prefers Phantom Seer to Magu-chan and thought it would outlast it, blaming another series for surviving instead is just a bad look, especially when that series probably won't last another two or three rounds at this rate. Personally, I think it makes more sense to compare series that have more overlap in genre/themes/audience since that's going to be its major competition in the magazine. It's been said before that one of the factors behind the TOC position (among many) is spreading it out so different genres are scattered and not all clumped together, so Phantom Seer has a tough gig in trying to break that top half of the roster. In comparison, in the past few weeks alone we've seen Me & Roboco, High School Family, and Magu-chan trade high spots likely as a place for the comedy they wanted to feature most that issue.

Phantom Seer did have one of my favourite first chapters of last year and I had high hopes for quite a while but I also think it didn't do enough to distinguish itself amongst its genre contemporaries or make the full potential of its world. The art was the major selling point but the story never really took off for me - I was always waiting for that 'moment' and it sadly never happened. On face value I do think it should have been given more of a chance but who knows the full story.



It's been nine weeks since the last serialisation round started so this is around the time we'd start getting new series or announcements for what's to come. Once JJK has likely had its cover on #19 we're probably going to start the next round shortly after.



WSJ is still the best selling magazine in Japan and that's not going to change because Phantom Seer might end. The magazine with the next best circulation numbers only does 40% of what Jump manages. Clearly you're pissed one of your favourite series ends but remember to keep things in perspective.



But we just had a Jump SQ clone in Our Blood Oath and that was panned by pretty much everyone from near the start and deserved its U19 run.

That to me remains Neglect.

Sorry for being boring, but all this phantom seer talk just makes me think about this alternative.

It's okay for Roboko to be promoted, he has good sales and is growing, it's a popular manga, the author is doing a good job.

unfortunately, magu chan and HSF are not so lucky. magu chan had no growth in sales and HSF sold about 2K in the first week, I think it was less than isobe isobee, which was the author's previous work.

I am aware that they are expected to sell less, but they still have to perform satisfactorily. With the amount of promotion that Magu-Chan and Roboco are giving you would expect good sales, but only Roboko is doing well.

 

[SunPillar]

I don't think it's a writing issue like Kano stuff, the series just introduced a group a villains at the start of the current arc so the writer clearly has (had?) some longer term plans in mind even if it's just more episodic arcs.

I'm very curious too see what kind of news we get about it once ToC and stuff leaks next week. It just doesn't feel like a regular straightforward cancellation to me.

Me too. Phantom Seer isn’t really an established enough series to get such an announcement in my opinion, so it raises an eyebrow. But it could be like what someone else posted on here and they want to show respect for the small fan base that it did acquire.

 

[Serinox]

I bet it would be the smartest option, since in Jump + phantom seer it would have a better treatment than in WSJ.

Though, keep in mind that Nakano is also majorly involved in the serialization decisions for Jump+, so PS wouldn't be safe from Nakano in Jump+ either.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Phantom Seer is a case it could work well being moved to Jump Plus, because if the bigger audience it's in the volume releases instead of the WSJ readers sending surveys, being in a platform that there's no surveys to care about it would be the ideal place but SJ still don't know that they can transfer things to Plus, so ofc would never going to happen.

 

[c3pman]

To be honest, I think the harsh reality is that Jump's roaster in this moment is basically boring.

When I look up for Jump's manga I'm looking for hits and for top manga that keep me hooked... And now, Jump's top 5 (One Piece, MHA, BC, Dr. Stone and Jujutsu) are great manga, but the rest of the roaster is mediocre to say the least...

The editorial team keep making decisions that nobody understand, but the important question here is that they don't seem to be able to find new stories that keep us entertained and that's sad...

 

[rg24]

The common reception of the series is that it had a great art and a ok story, if it was only one person doing it it will be a thing but is this case you are wasting a good artist with a "ok" author so it make sense if they just canceled it to bet for a new series with the artist and another one doing the story that should be a better one. If the artist come back in some months we will know this was the case.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

To be honest, I think the harsh reality is that Jump's roaster in this moment is basically boring.

When I look up for Jump's manga I'm looking for hits and for top manga that keep me hooked... And now, Jump's top 5 (One Piece, MHA, BC, Dr. Stone and Jujutsu) are great manga, but the rest of the roaster is mediocre to say the least...

The editorial team keep making decisions that nobody understand, but the important question here is that they don't seem to be able to find new stories that keep us entertained and that's sad...

The way you phrased your comment feels like you're more concerned about reading big hits than simply good mangas, or that being popular automatically makes it good since you just ruled out everything else outside the 5 biggest sellers as mediocre at best, and while i don't think current Jump line up is the "best ever" and etc there are a lot of good/great stuff, my personal favorite series for a while has been Yozakura, people also love Mashle, Undead, Sakamoto and others, not really trying to say your comment is bad just that sounded weird, i also had my years of thinking Jump is about popularity and if you're not, you're bad/mediocre series but this was more when SJ was in that "golden age" where even Mashle would be treated as a average series.

 

[suzume029]

It's been nine weeks since the last serialisation round started so this is around the time we'd start getting new series or announcements for what's to come. Once JJK has likely had its cover on #19 we're probably going to start the next round shortly after.

Yeah you're right, I was thinking June-ish for the new batch so there might be a while until they make their next round decisions, but I looked through the magazine's history and new series around this time often starts ~~ #22-#24 give or take a few issues, and given that the mag has to be designed and printed ahead of time, things are likely decided already.

Does this mean we're getting rid of the weekly debates on Phantom Seer vs The World after every TOC?

I love Seer and wish it and its authors all the best but the thought of being free of weekly Seer debates sounds incredibly refreshing.

As an artist myself I don't think the Jump serialization model is very healthy and I can't say I'm a fan of it, but repeatedly putting down one series or another makes for very hostile and stale discussion. I saw some helpful advises that even if your fave does end prematurely, it's just more productive to appreciate its existent instead, and you can still support the remaining volumes that are coming out, make fan content, anything. No one can take that away from you.

In any case, we'll know more tomorrow and next week. A Jump+ transfer would be the most ideal scenario given how it's already become a cult title at this point, but I'm not holding my breathe out for it. I still think the timing and sequence of events leading up to this news is pretty odd and there might be something happening behind the scenes, but since I enjoy this work of theirs if the authors decide to move on I'm excited to see what they're doing next.

 

[Manjiknights]

I am aware that they are expected to sell less, but they still have to perform satisfactorily. With the amount of promotion that Magu-Chan and Roboco are giving you would expect good sales, but only Roboko is doing well.

I do wanna say, because it is something that bugs me whenever the topic of push comes up. The level of push Magu got and the level of push Roboco got are not even close to comparable. Magu got voice comics, same as every other newbie at the time, a couple of high ToC positions and one CP per volume (besides the random extra one from November). It shows that they have an interest in keeping it around, and you can argue now after v2 and especially after v3 that the support appears to be fruitless. But the effort that went into Roboco’s advertising campaign for v2 was much higher. Music video with over 2 million views, twitter account, Line stickers, stands in bookstores, merch raffle, on top of everything else Magu also got. The difference between the two series was pretty much marginal up until Roboco grew with v2 and Magu stagnated—even then, Roboco only grew about 2-3k which isn’t a lot, though it did have decent backlog. It’s not superb, but it’s enough to survive in the current climate. I don’t think Magu would have done exponentially better either even with that level of advertising, would probably only do around or slightly less than what Roboco is doing at best, though arguably maybe that would be enough too. But without any form of promotion outside positioning in the magazine whatsoever, it just didn’t attract the new buyers that Roboco evidently got. Roboco mignt not have done that much more than its first volume either without the outside push, though that was still very slightly better than Magu and I have a feeling it still surveyed pretty well.

PS deserved more promotion too for sure, even though we’ve seen that it was able to sell well without it perhaps the extra push would’ve sent it over the line, but I don’t think any series are “stealing” promo from the other here to be honest. They can choose to do whatever they want with any series with the kind of money Shueisha has. If PS was going to stick around they could have done as much as they wanted for it. And either way, even if Magu got a Roboco level ad campaign, PS probably would have outsold both still because the genre and art has more of an appeal. But at this point that’s neither here nor there. Just saying I’m starting to get tired of Magu and Roboco push comparisons when the only real equality they have at this point is maybe Nakano is inclined to give them chances because of the genre, but it is very evident that one is preferred over the other; Roboco has at least justified itself with its growth for now but I feel like it’s unfair to lump them both in the same push category otherwise when they were almost equal at the outset but one got much more attention than the other.

I should add that I like Roboco well enough most of the time, I just don’t think that it’s doing so well that it’s irreplaceable if a better preforming gag comes in the future, but it will be here for a while because it’s the only gag that’s growing. I just think said growth would not have occurred if its advertising was limited to in-magazine promo. And whether or not the amount of advertisement it got was even justified at first is another debate in and of itself, it was a bit of a gamble, and it would have been with Magu too had they done the same thing.

 

[samama10]

Can we pleaseeeee move on cause theres too many walls of texts now. What about the new batch i think there will be 5 new series. 1. will definitely be a gag 2. will definitely be a gag 3. will definitely be a gag 4. will definitely be a gag 5. Just some dumb manga that no one cares about and the writer hasn't even planned any big plotlines cancelled under 20 chapters

 

[Tamil]

Wow I came into this thread thinking CSM PV was released but Phantom Seer is ending...I did not see that coming and even if I'm not the biggest fan, the series wasn't promoted as much which is odd. As someone mentioned, there could be more to it like coming late with the manuscripts &/or feeling not confident with progressing the story. Tbf if it was the former then they would've moved it to Jump+.

 

[Mammo]

>sales didn't grow
>start doomposting
>100k circulation
>bloomposts
>ending soon
>seething and coping

quite the emotional roller coaster

to think PS ending have generated a bigger shitstorm and discussion in this thread than BK could ever manage in his life
screenshots and popcorn will be had either way

 

[galaxy-juice]

I have no words about Phantom Seer ending.

If a massive serialization round is not announced soon, I won't have any explanation why it happened. Vol 4 isn't even full yet, and the series was not showing any signs of stopping up before now. I know it stagnated in monthly sales, but wow.

It's just-- before Build King? HSF? Cop & Dolphin? Magu-chan? The latter two have already set up their final arcs to end whenever necessary... so did the PS creators not know about their series ending? Did they simply decide to ignore it? I think the creators' behavior is just as shocking as the editorial's right now.

I can only wonder if the theory that the creators asked to cut it short for some reason is correct. Maybe one of them got injured, or sick, and had to stop. I simply do not know.

This is just so sudden... there are too many unknowns. Hopefully, we'll learn more after the final chapter drops (maybe it's getting moved to Jump+?), but I just don't know.

Anyway, the My Hero stuff looks great. Can't wait to read Jump tomorrow.

 

[Manjiknights]

It's just-- before Build King? HSF? Cop & Dolphin? Magu-chan?

I've said my piece on what out of the above I think is leaving now and what isn't but this complaint is moot because PS isn't ending "before" all of these, at least 1-2 of them are going with it, it's not getting cancelled on its own. Series usually end in chronological order when it's time to make way for batches, but you can pretty much consider them ending all at the same time. Jump doesn't just end stuff alone unless it's an exceptional case like Act-Age. PS just gets the luxury of an announcement because it doesn't appear to be a normal poor performance-based cancellation, whereas whatever else ends alongside it will just end with no explicit forewarning.

 

[SharkBait]

I am aware that they are expected to sell less, but they still have to perform satisfactorily. With the amount of promotion that Magu-Chan and Roboco are giving you would expect good sales, but only Roboko is doing well.

The manga being kept around means they are doing satisfactory. You get rid of unsatisfactory series. Printing 100k volumes for an exorcist series is unsatisfactory in the eyes of the jump editors whereas, 350k for a competitors exorcist manga is satisfactory, ayakashi triangle performed better than phantom seer. Perhaps jump should have never mentioned 100k at all.

The editorial team keep making decisions that nobody understand, but the important question here is that they don't seem to be able to find new stories that keep us entertained and that's sad...

Mashle is a hit. Yozakura built up a strong fan base these two years. Ayakashi Triangle seems like a wwe positioned hit. Jump is finding stories to keep people entertained.

Can we pleaseeeee move on cause theres too many walls of texts now. What about the new batch i think there will be 5 new series. 1. will definitely be a gag 2. will definitely be a gag 3. will definitely be a gag 4. will definitely be a gag 5. Just some dumb manga that no one cares about and the writer hasn't even planned any big plotlines cancelled under 20 chapters

5 seems like too much. I dont think anyone can justify more than three series to end at this point.

I can only wonder if the theory that the creators asked to cut it short for some reason is correct. Maybe one of them got injured, or sick, and had to stop. I simply do not know.

Thats a terrible theory. I dont know why fans wish for this type of theory to be true. Why are you wishing for harm to come to them?

If they were truly sick or injured then they could go on hiatus like Togashi or change to a different pace like Oda, or transfer like Daisuke Ashihara and also we would have had an abrupt pause, not an announced finale.

 

[evielynn]

The most interesting thing to note here is that unless Dolphin gets double killed along with PS, then it's either not dying (since oldest always leaves first), or we get confirmation that PS ending is not an axe.

 

[Mammo]

here are my 2 cents take which isn't as exciting as some people posts
there isn't any conspiracy or a grand secret or mistreatment or any problem with the artists
business as usual
jump axes bottom dwellers all the time and that's that

"what about the sales"
clearly jump doesn't see it as an irreplaceable loss
"it would have sold more with more promotion"
that's just a generic saying that you can be applied every single axed manga

and a response to the seething in the previous 5 pages
this whole "let's just wait until we see the volume 1 sales" mentality is just coping
wsj axes and don't even wait for volume 1 to come out a lot of the time
it's denial
this whole attacking unrelated series and "what about X? it should have gotten axed first"
it's anger
this whole "it would do better in (insert name of magazine here)" "they should move it to Plus"
it's bargaining

the first 3 stages of the 5 stages of grief

 

[Stivie]

The manga being kept around means they are doing satisfactory. You get rid of unsatisfactory series. Printing 100k volumes for an exorcist series is unsatisfactory in the eyes of the jump editors whereas, 350k for a competitors exorcist manga is satisfactory, ayakashi triangle performed better than phantom seer. Perhaps jump should have never mentioned 100k at all.

Where are sales of magu chan satifact?

CP doesn't save anyone for more than three years and I didn't even guarantee anime. With the amount of promotion they are giving Magu-Chan and Roboco, you would expect good sales, but they are not doing well.

Magu is the one who sells the least, and the CP pages he received should have better sales.

Much better and more profitable an exorcist manga that sells 22K and with 100K copies in circulation, which increase its sales with each volume than comedy or SoL manga that has NO performance improvement.