Games Mafia Game 93 - BnHA: The Burning Building - End Game

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Copy Panda

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Sorry, this took a while >_< Wanted to extensive player reviews, but now that the next game has started, I figured I'd keep it short after all

Thank you again for participating, everyone! Those who spent time playing, those who won, those who hosted and even the spectators; all of you together made this a fun experience! The death pad at times vitriolic, at other times, just toxic (as it should be). I'll go over some stuff here, cover the broad strokes.


👨‍🚒 👩‍🚒 Mechanics and Balance 🦸‍♂️ 🦸‍♀️

Compared to what you guys got, my earliest proposals for this mechanic were actually much more demanding of the players. For better or worse, Noona's input balanced the game out by taking away a considerable amount of decision-making. Personally, I'm a spice man, but over the course of hosting a couple of games now with her, I think I've grown to not just respect but incorporate some of her game-design ideas/preferences into my own. A few more games and I'll be Brazilian Corruption'd so much, I can apply for a passport.

At the base of it all was Noona's inverse janitor idea, whereby only death could reveal your role. Though presumably harder on newer players, across the board, it decidedly did influence the player approach towards the game. Maybe the most noticeable effect was that the players were deprived of just enough information to focus on the actual behaviour of others. Sure, some of the mafo made spicy claims, but maybe the lack of information across the board did more to help the noobies than not knowing hampered them.

The Burning Building stuff I think I produced a week or week and a half before the game started. We spent like 3 years trying to figure this out, our styles and personalities clashing constantly. 'We' here also includes Poopler and Marms who had their own ideas and inputs. The building idea I thought would have incorporated most ideas. The voting-for-your-role bit became the central part of the design, with us hoping that nearly everybody would know their role by the time D4ish would come around.

Initially, our ideas on how to arrange the First and Second floors differed. I personally wanted different effects for both floors, with only one floor being the Reveal floor (but revealing 5 instead of 3). Noona developed an interesting line of thought here, involving player choice and the idea that the floor capacities should be what Players aim to manage, rather than just the individual choice of what powers to use. This was enforced by the floor only working if a precise amount of people entered. Comparatively, this meant that some amount of people would probably always get their role revealed, which would keep the game moving smoothly.

The Roof Floor revealing Mafia created an interesting situation early around D2ish when the second McDo was revealed. What's painful is that it turned out that was the second Doc hiding amongst you 💀 Btw, in hindsight, I think it would have been better to personally reveal to the mafia member in question that their role got revealed that it was them who was revealed (i.e. let the McDo know they're the McDo once the top floor revealed as such).

The Prosecutor Floor, depending on how actions played out, could have been hidoi. While ofc it was clear that at some point a bunch of Prosecutors could be walking around town, it was scary to consider how many shots could be fired in one day. Personally, 1.) I figured the range of shots would have been around 4 and that 2.) people wouldn't go around cajoling the prosecutors (as they might be mafia killed otherwise). Perhaps it was for the best to force people (Shobu) to shoot but overall, given how valuable the power is, though I can't really imagine town revenge-lynching a reluctant Prosecutor. I mean I ain't y'all but I'd be scared of losing sth important. Though I'm not sure about the minutiae, Tatsu who was in the room with Eri then proceeded to kill her :lmao

Oh yeah, the Ground Floor, where y'all started, initially was supposed to randomly poison one of the leavers 💀 In the end, we settled on Hot Potato being more Player-friendly. My idea was that people who failed to enter another floor would just end up here again, but RNG'ing you onto another floor was deemed, again, more Player-friendly (which is true). So, as far as the mechanic goes, all I can say is I'm happy we managed to figure out sth that was acceptable to all four of us lol ç__ç

As for balance, there were a few hiccups here and there. While some players got shafted accidentally (Pomcha), intentionally (Sakura), stupidly (Sam) and some others didn't use their role altogether (Lamb, Van), a central complaint we've received has to do with the amount of mafo in the game. Personally, I think the mafo should have had it quite rough, and simply played out the end-game well (though they had a couple of advantages going into this game-state).

The most important dynamic here that, admittedly I personally at least, didn't fully consider, was that the number of player-kills per night (if all of them go through i.e. are unblocked etc.) will only go down once the full team has been slain. That's to say, in the Red case, for instance, only once Desu died, would there be one night-kill less. Sure, losing (wo)man-power sucks, especially if the role attached to the name was strong, and it sets you back half-a-phase in meeting your wincon, but notably, the killing power of mafo doesn't go down. Because of this, even with the Red implosion and lack of mislynching by town, so long purple avoided stacking their kills with Red (through prediction or just prestidigitation), they'd able to piggyback on their killing powers. It is not like we didn't attempt to balance this; with the abundance of prosecutor powers and another party out to kill them without having Doc immediately available, they were at risk. It's just that so long town consistently culls one team, and neither mafo focuses on killing their counterpart, ironically, the remaining team 'absorbs' the momentum.

Some other balance concerns or mishaps will be touched on in the following section. Lots of it has been discussed in pads on disc. If there's something else that I didn't cover here and wasn't discussed on disc, ofc feel free to point it out here on the thread and we can discuss it​

🚒 🚑 Players 🔥💀

16. sakura_aneki as Shoto | Mafia Boss | Lynched D1
It is unfortunate you died quite early and set off a cascade. Uh, I don't think you did yourself a lot of favours by locking so early, but, in the same vein, it's not entirely fair to hold you being killed by your own fam against you. Sure, anyone could have killed you bc of this move, but it shouldn't have been your own guy. I suppose 'lesson learnt' for next time; can't trust anyone in this game 🗡


1. GrySun as Lemillion | Mafia Detective | Killed N1
One of our resident favourites, unfortunately, was slain in single combat. The only non-town to be slain by another at night, in fact. A little saddening, though not entirely unexpected. Since your killer signed up for next game, surely you'll have a chance at revenge this time around 💀


15. Holt as Ingenium | Detective, Traitor | Lynched D2
Insane Det with (Naive) Traitor is (one of) my 'preferred' builds; it gives the player two things to figure out by using the same mechanic. They have some room for diagnosing their situation through their own volition. Given your unfortunate early death, however, this little mini-game never came to fruition. It is a little saddening you died a sacrificial lamb; technically you were the only mislynch in-game


24. Evil3ye as Shinso | Doctor, Super Mason | Killed N2
Though it has been mentioned many a time that Eripan couldn't target easy, since the Super Mason secondaries weren't hidden, Eripan had a couple of targets to pick from (should they declare, which they did). So while purely number-wise she was in a tough spot, eligible targets could somewhat vouch for themselves. Funnily enough, she actually picked a 'hidden' Super Mason (Jinx), who lied to everyone (including Eri) so that she could play the part of a cleansed townie. I think you were next on the recruit list, Evil, or pretty high up there at least. Hopefully, you get to play a bit longer next time


11. Shad as Deku | Mafia Doctor | Lynched D3
A few... miscalculations... Here and there... You did redeem yourself though, and almost all actions you took were considerably spicy. I liked the rogue PGO claim, though maybe it was a little too early to make that sort of claim. Nonetheless, fun to see, though I imagine it less delightful to be on the receiving end of your dagger lol


6. JamesRye as Cellophane | Apprentice, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D3
You even said 'Ah I hope I ain't the Apprentice' :lmao I never quite got why you chose to shoot Erichi btw :0


9. Lady Pompom as Creati | Psychiatrist, Hot Potato | Exploded D3
Sorry you exploded a phase too early, Pomcha ç___ç Your main role was supposed to detect secondaries, verify such claims, maybe pressure the traitor who was still unsure of their position. In an earlier iteration, there were also Lovers that you could find, but we determined that could create a pad overload for two very unfortunate players. In the end, you were kept in so that you could snuff out the eventual Traitor, or draw attention to players hiding their secondary like Jinx. Sorta ironic the secondary-spotting power... was killed by a passable secondary


2. Erinyes as Pinky | Mason Recruiter, Prosecutor | Killed N3
You got done dirty Eripan, and you died an ironic death; after surviving the Prosecutor shot, you got killed as soon as you got your own hands on it. It beats suiciding on the role, though. At least you recruited someone? ç__ç


18. Asako Gryffindor as Froppy | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D4
Thank you for subbing in Gryff! Your predecessor lowkey fucked up your position but thanks to Shad's heroics and your way with words you managed to pull through and live to shitpost another day. Hopefully next time you join you start out less compromised 🙏


17. Shobu_Yoruichi as Chargebolt | Mafia Detective, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D4
I think you should have been slightly more patient XD You got peer-pressured into shooting, and I respect you doing so, but you should have been more patient anyway. I didn't think a Mafia would risk it. And if I had, personally, I might have Shadded one of my own. Ofc, it was also more or less your first game, and you were in a tough position (unlike your other noobie counterparts, you were mafia). Oh, also, I like how you took the Bankai part of the explanation seriously and actually publically went Bankai xD It's unfortunate that last-hour rule was invoked on you, that slightly hurt your credentials probably, but props for the flair. Spice good


7. Lambu as Red Riot | Detective, Sickly | Killed N4
Some raised the Sickly v unknown role point, and personally, I disagree with the notion that Sickly made the primary role unusable. Especially on the first night, when Sickly'ing someone was not much better than RNG D1 vote, I myself at least would have used my role to see if there was feedback. I can see the cost-benefit part that comes from choosing between using Det and Sickly, but you didn't know your primary at all until you died ç__ç Ofc I can understand your position, but I didn't think a player would opt into not trying their main role at all. Sth for us/me to consider next time.


4. Crescent Jinx as Nejirechan | Spy, Super Mason | Killed N4
Interesting ploy, hiding your Spy status from everyone. A notably powerful strategy and quite believable at that. Eventually, you became a target for your information retention skills LOL, another kind of information gathering I suppose. V dangerous


3. SirSamuel016 as Vantablack | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D5
If I could have made a top 5 worst roles to claim in your position, I think Troublemaker might just be on there. It bought you another day, but at what cost? LOL Other than that, I liked your presence in the Floor pads. It was kinda funny how at some point (I think N3 or 4 or sth) you entered the room, all 'heyo what's up' and 12 people all at once started attacking you. I'd say 'poor guy' but you bullied me a lot so...


14. Juviii as Uravity | Jesus | Killed N5
Juvling has noticeably improved; compared to earlier games where you passively trolled town by pulling a Shinoona on us and going poof. I'd (we'd) say you're much more involved now. Furthermore, it's not naive aggression but pretty accurate remarks and to-the-point arguments. Sure, you were confirmed, but your gameplay itself might have warranted a kill at this point in the game anyway


5. Demonspeed Vandred as Tsukuyomi | Hider | Killed N5
Thank you Vindred for subbing in for Demon! You were quite important in that you were a sub for a townie, not a mafo (which usually is the case). Hopefully, precedent now has been set that any kind of player can be subbed in, not just mafia lol. Did you have any developed thoughts on how to handle subbing in better (things that make it easier or faired for the sub in to fit in)? Curious if you do. Unfortunate situation with you missing the timing to PM your action ç__ç Game might have looked a bit different had you submitted, but who can tell how much tbh. As usual, solid and balanced play. Had the game gone on a little longer you could have even deployed a Vanplan or two.


10. desin24 as Shemage | Mafia Escort | Lynched D6
The final Red to die. You did quite good tbh, surviving or as long as you did. Especially your fighting spirit shone through 🔥 I feel like you roll prosti more often than Taku or sth at this point lol


19. Avietar as Battlefist | Mortician | Killed N6
Ahh, we had a few miscomms in our PM concerning role usage, but overall, I'm happy you were as active as you were! You had a slightly harder role to figure out the purpose of (which... you might have had on N3 iirc if not for the miscommunication >_<). Overall, I liked how you did your best and stayed in the pads till quite late in your timezone xD Good stuff


21. digitaldude as Invisible Girl | Bodyguard | Lynched D7
Ahh I felt very bad receiving your PM's DD. At multiple points, I think not just me, but the other hosts as well would have wanted to PM you, assuring you your actions went through and that we didn't forget or whatever. It just was your role that didn't give you any feedback ç__ç Towards the end the more experienced players managed to capitalize on the attrition damage the chibis took and paint you as suspicious.


8. SonOfDaws as Earphone Jack | Mafia Boss | WINNER
Very involved in the mafia pads, scheming it out. I liked your play by the end, fucking up floor pad. I suppose any mafo could have done it, but I think that act greatly contributed to the momentum-seeking chibis losing their footing. Had they had a pad to discuss and consolidate, they might have turned against you guys in a fury. Pretty good job on staying separated from the others till the end; I'd have to go back and check but I don't think many players had an end-game in mind that linked you to Lawl or Tatsu.


12. Maryxxi as Suneater | Prostitute | LOSER
Similarly to Avi, I liked your activity a lot! Even when you were asking questions, they were well-thought-out inquiries that clearly indicated some level of research and understanding of the game. Like the other chibi's, you were mostly hampered by lack of experience and not having role list info at the ready (both of which can be helped in few games). Your targeting was decent (as well as equal parts tragic when you got blocked by the mafo prosti). I hope you stick around for more games later 🙏


13. Tatsumaki as Real Steel | Mafia Doctor | WINNER
Was the part about you having to go to the station for wi-fi real? That's some real MVP-level dedication LOL Tbh you were pretty invisible (as a mafo) for the vast majority of the game and even towards the end you weren't really suspected. You fit in naturally and were excluded from most end-game mafo rosters. Good stuff


20. Equaling Heaven as PhantomThief | Bulletproof | LOSER
I think on thread the most inquisitive townie! Aggressive forward play, asking questions and producing theories. play like a noob (though then again you didn't last game either). In a few more games I think you'll have a much better understanding of the possibilities available. GG 🙏


22. Zirconium as Dynamight | Banshee, Super Mason | LOSER
Like Mary, I liked the questions you asked. Really didn't come across as a first-time player of sorts. I hope you keep playing and try your luck at solving the murder mystery next time ç__ç


23. Tsar Blyatinum as Lizardy | Mafia Escort | WINNER
Hyung-nim simply can't be mafia :blush I think hyung did a good job staying under the radar and keeping it together throughout the game. I feel like usually you'd have attracted more attention, but similar to the Titan game, even as a mafo you sat it out. Your targeting was quite good too. In terms of grit, Tatsu probs did 'best', but in terms of performance, you're up there!
​

🚒 🚑 Spices 🔥💀










POW!
​
 
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Maryxxi

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back to say that there is a big chance of me not being active in the pad by the beginning of the night as i may be sleeping by then, so probably see u in the morning.
anyways i ll be voting myself and i hope other pad mates can put me in their top 3 list and help me get my role revealed.
i m gonna check who is going where tomorrow, hoping that everyone is stating clearly their destination for the night.
 

SonOfDaws

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Players of note:
Asako
- Her case on paper is pretty simple or at least it was until the switch. Her decision to save herself by voting up DD instead of Sakura, who we now know to be a mafia boss, is telling, HOWEVER, there's a key detail that is being overlooked: Similar to my reason for voting DD that very same day phase, DD voted for her first and she returned the favor. This doesn't clear her though. In fact, Asako could have been mafia or at least guilty right alongside Sakura and perhaps even DD and, still, her reasoning would be fairly reasonable. So, the suspicion due to the Day 1 vote is yet again iffy on its own, but there's also the mafia reveals. The mafia doctor revealing have effectively narrowed down the mafia doctor possibilities to Asako or Shad. It's hard for me to say which is guilty. I'd say Asako's postings are less self-centered and defensive, but on paper, Shad obviously looks better with a decisive mafia votekill under his belt. Both look poorly though and are certainly worth the number 1 and 2 spots in terms suspicion.

Votekill Asa-dor


HOWEVER...


Shad - Stemming from my thoughts on Asako, Shad killed a mafia and hasn't otherwise made any suspect lynch pushes, but this is tied with the fact that his PGO claim only continues to make less and less sense as I make more sense of the mechanics. Not only do we likely have two mafias, but also, a prosecutor factory. That's A LOT of potential death that can occur in the game. Plus, townies are going to be wildly targeting players left and right just to figure out what they would usually already know at the start of most Mafia Games, so having a PGO in the game punishes players for being active in the game and just trying to figure out the basics of the game. Role claims aside, I don't know as much about playing with Shad as I do hosting games he's in, but It seems like he's notably more absent this game and when he does show up, it's usually very defensive or comments lacking much substance. This could just be as a result of the amount of time he's had to play and, if so, I feel ya there, but still, I think he's vote-worthy.

Still, while one of them coming up scum would add to the evidence of their possible innocence, this does NOT clear Asa-dor or DD and I'm perfectly fine with with Asa-dor being lynched today, but Shad's defensiveness, unsubstantial posts, and PGO claim stick out to me as suspect independant of what Asa-dor flips as. I could change my mind though and if I heard more about your thoughts on the players in the game, @Shad , then I think you could clear yourself in my mind. Otherwise, lynch-able today and tomorrow.

On the flipside, same to you Asa-dor ( @Gryffindor ). I know you're in a tough spot and I'm a bit annoyed with the nebulousness myself, but your thoughts on the players in the game would be valuable and could certainly change my vote as well as others.


DD - I don't have nearly as much to say about DD, but he's certainly been an interesting figure this game. I think the D1 votes aren't of much note, but his behavior certainly strikes me as notably more distance and nowhere nearly as inflammatory and assertive as his posts usually are. He's certainly suspect

Erin & James - If Erin isn't scum 'You're not going anywhere. You're dead' just might be my new sig.



Side note: If Lady Pompom is a psychiatrist, then I seriously doubt that role was added to this game simply to find out who the sickly is. Given that the role is meant as a counter to them, I think it is likely that we have a pair of lovers in the game. This won't matter much this phase or the next, but we need to stay on the lookout for any dynamic duos that may be trying to manipulate town to their own ends.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I personally would love to see Lawl with a prosecution power.




Go big or go home! O/ Actually Lambu never appeared to fight me so now going to bully you. Why you? Because you seem much too passive in your analysis. You made a good point about Holt yesterday. And as for today I know people are constantly upgrading and rearranging thoughts on people as the day phase continues but you haven’t really sad that much on anybody except for Asako/Gryffindor. And you seemed to be worried about having multiple prosecutors hanging around during the last few days.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



I feel like you’re doing it more to have control over who gets the role reveal rather than helping fill the floors numbers.
I provided more in-depth thoughts on players above. Was going to voice suspicion of James and question the Erin lynch pushes too, but uhh... decided against it for obvious reasons.

As for the prosecutor mechanic. It's the only one that's known for certain and, with a cap number of prosecutors that can possibly exist and use their lynch on the same day phase being 8 or 9, that mechanic is likely the most important ability for townies have access to in the game and makes Shad's claim more questionable.

Still, we haven't had any huge death parades yet, all of the hosts are vets, and one of them even trained me up as a host, so I have more reasons to trust in the setup than not. Still, that mechanic can lead to some massive shifts power either due to mistakes or good hits.
 

Crescent Jinx

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so having a PGO in the game punishes players for being active in the game and just trying to figure out the basics of the game
This^

I think it is likely that we have a pair of lovers in the game.
This is what I was trying earlier to say about the secondary roles. All the people who died so far had secondary roles. Except Juvia. Zirconium also has one. The most obvious ones for a game like this and would be lovers/TSC. Especially if they gain control of a floor pad to promote each other’s role. That way someone who is Townie could get their lover to fly under radar.
 

Zirconium

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Top Floor:
Erinyes (#942)
Avietar (#953)
Zirconium (#985)
Tatsumaki (#986)
SonOfDaws (#1001)

Second Floor
Lambu (#1042)

First Floor:
Sir Samuel (#932)
Digitaldude (#954)
Maryxxi (#963)
EH (#989)
James (#1017)

Did I miss someone? What about Crescent, desin, Shad, Juviii, Shobu and Tsar? Which floor are you going to?
 

Equaling Heaven

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When I called sus on shad dd inquired me about it. -º-
 

Juviii

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I agree that the PGO in this setup is very weird. (Tho Panda games be Panda Games). And not like Shad have been active at all today. He would have been a better shot from James imo to garantee that the mdoc dies for sure today.
 

Shad

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Catching up right now, votekill Shobu_Yoruichi for not being as manly as James.
 

Equaling Heaven

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Shobu is readin the thread iirc
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Nvm
 

Shad

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I agree that the PGO in this setup is very weird. (Tho Panda games be Panda Games). And not like Shad have been active at all today. He would have been a better shot from James imo to garantee that the mdoc dies for sure today.
I feel like my case is good enough, if I get persecuted today even more confirmation for me.

Mafia doc is dying in 2h
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I will stay in floor 1
 

avietar

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Well, one thing we know for sure. If Asako does not turn out to be the mafia doctor, Shad is the only suspect left.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

So honestly, the prosecutor role would have best been used on Shad. Well, too late now I suppose. Unless Shobu decides to make a move.
 

Crescent Jinx

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See I’m reverse. I think pros should have been used on Asako and then spent the rest of the day Shad vs Afkers for lynch.
 

Zirconium

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Top Floor:
Erinyes (#942)
Avietar (#953)
Zirconium (#985)
Tatsumaki (#986)
SonOfDaws (#1001)

Second Floor
Lambu (#1042)
Shobu (#1068)

First Floor:
Sir Samuel (#932)
Digitaldude (#954)
Maryxxi (#963)
EH (#989)
James (#1017)
Shad (#1070)
Crescent (#1072)
Vandred (#1073)

Top floor and first floor are full. There is only the second floor left now.
 

Gryffindor

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Dejm, deez haterz yo. So many joining an easy pile and moving on, disappointing

And not even prosecuting Shad? Hella fumbles, hella picks.


It seems like Sam is the one controlling the narrative here, pick n' choose Town's flow from what little I gathered. Still think we should lynch Shad, and it's really not too late:

The idea that Asako defended Sakura doesn't hold much weight, not to the extent the accusers expressed:
1) She was one of the first to correct Sakura(#193, #200). The mistake and subsequent back and forth with Evil3ye is what caused Sakura to climb up, if the issue was that delicate I would expect Mafia to avoid, not address, or imply defense like GrySun did. All she did was express the thought that she could be an angry Townie because she wasted her 2nd vote instead of holding on to it, which would've been essential for Sakura in hindsight and is a perfectly reasonable thought process.

The idea that she avoided lynching Sakura, or instead chose to save herself.

Flat out wrong:

#399

Asako said:
Well then DD, if we dying let's die together lol
We leaving it to ramdomizor sama, our god and savior
^Not mafia attitude imo.

-Doesn't make sense to prefer saving Sakura if we assume we share a mafia team because the roles are unknown.
-Doesn't make sense to leave things up to fate if you are a Mafia, numbers game and all. Her being careless fits in more with her attitude of not sure of being able to play due to her personal situation.

Another thing:
She clearly voted DD out of spite, DD put her top D1 (#380) she responded in kind (#383). Not sure how this amounts to Sakura saving, when at this point Sakura is tied 2nd with 3 other people.

Not sure why people ignored DD's reasoning for voting her up either.

"Saving Sakura" is weak, and by elimination that leaves Shad who is shielded but what ultimately seems to be a stroke of luck from an opposing anti-town. And who has fallen back on that to help his coast thru, I mean, PGO? C'mon now.


Votelock Shad


Other suspects include Rambu, DD, and Sam.


@Juviii @Vandred @SonOfDaws @Lambu and I forget who else, switch to Shad.
 

Vandred

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See I’m reverse. I think pros should have been used on Asako and then spent the rest of the day Shad vs Afkers for lynch.
...While I think Prosecutor is best used on the fringe suspects, not the ones that are right in the open and are doomed no matter what. If the Pro is mafia, that's their card out of jail right there. The best way to prove themselves is to hit a mafia that's avoiding the spotlight, which will confirm a hard-to-trust townie in case of failure.

Gotta praise the effort, Gryff, but I don't think there's any turning back now, all the more if the mafia wants Asako dead /3\
 

avietar

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英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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Wanted to let everyone know I won't be around for the first part of the top floor night pad. It starts in the middle of the night here, so I will be asleep.

However, let it be known I am interested in the prosecutor role.

Also, I discovered new info about my role? I did a day command that didn't go through.
 
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