Fantasy Jinbe vs Queen

weixiaobao

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So I read a post from Zehahaha that said Jinbe's fight against Who's Who was really easy. And that get me thinking of where he is from the spectrum of Who's Who to Jack, then Queen, then King. I google around and found a reddit post from 1 year ago that had a poll. Jinbe won that poll 161 to Queen 123. Most of the arguments boiled down Queen and Jinbe's feats against Big Mom. So what do you think of these 2 tanky boys.

Bonus: how well will Jack fair against Jinbe?
 

Pirate Queen

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Jinbei takes it in my opinion.
 

McNuss

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Queen is a Jack with Laser Beams. Jinbe can just chain his Ogi techniques and Queen goes flying. He doesn't have anything that could remotely trouble Jinbe.

That is, if he doesn't use his plagues. The plagues are stupid to the point we can't really consider them in any evaluations, but in-universe they obviously exist and contribute to Queen's reputation as the #2 officer in Kaido's crew.
 

XXGenesis

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Queen high Diff. Jimbei gets caught off guard by Brachiosaurus secret grapple & the missles take him out.
 

weixiaobao

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People often underestimate that Jinbe is quite the tactician in battle.
 

Crimson Ice

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Queen, and it's not going past mid-dif. Jinbei is really overrated on this forum.
 

McNuss

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Queen, and it's not going past mid-dif. Jinbei is really overrated on this forum.
How????

One Piece has been going on for way over two decades now, we now how it goes.

Jinbe has had barely more than two feature fights. The only people shown to cause him trouble are the likes of Magellan, Akainu, Katakuri, Big Mom.

He oneshot Opera, he humiliated Who's Who. Still has some of the best feats vs Akainu and Big Mom. He never showcased his full potential in any fight. He is a former Shishibukai. We have seen tons of Fishman Karate and and from Jinbe we just barely have anything else but Seiken variations.

The last Strawhats Oda held back, like Franky, Robin or Zoro, they all performed way better than anyone anticipated, and the anticipations for Zoro were busted even before Wano.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Queen high Diff. Jimbei gets caught off guard by Brachiosaurus secret grapple & the missles take him out.
If Queen doesn't take himself out with it first. Honestly that was a joke move, he even said it's not fully thought out. And why would that take out someone that can block Cognac?

Queen has not taken out ANYONE, despite fighting for the longest time. He took out more men from his own than enemies lol. By keeping any remote sense of powerscaling, the fact he could not even take out Chopper speaks for itself.

His actions led to 4000 Beast Pirates defecting to the enemy, that is twice as much as Tama brought in. He is a disaster, Queen is the one that is overrated. He is a Jack with Laser Beams.
 

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I would like Oda to make Queen have some powerful techniques. I agree with McNuss that her entire skill set was pretty meeh. Queen's electrical ability could give him greater speed like Niji's, invisibility could also have the ability to end spiritual presence to reinforce Sanji's Kenbunshoku level, punches could be visually more destructive like Luffy's G4 against Doffy. Anyway, the Sanji vs Queen battle was pretty bad.

As for the topic, I'm betting on Jinbe, but not because he's stronger, but because of his ability to slightly nullify Queen's resistance
 

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How????

One Piece has been going on for way over two decades now, we now how it goes.

Jinbe has had barely more than two feature fights. The only people shown to cause him trouble are the likes of Magellan, Akainu, Katakuri, Big Mom.

He oneshot Opera, he humiliated Who's Who. Still has some of the best feats vs Akainu and Big Mom. He never showcased his full potential in any fight. He is a former Shishibukai. We have seen tons of Fishman Karate and and from Jinbe we just barely have anything else but Seiken variations.

The last Strawhats Oda held back, like Franky, Robin or Zoro, they all performed way better than anyone anticipated, and the anticipations for Zoro were busted even before Wano.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Only people who showed him trouble? He tied to a rookie Ace, an Ace much weaker than the one that appeared in the present story who was around the level of a yonko's right or left hand.

He has a feat of pushing back Big Mam and dealing no damage while barely being able to hold off Akainu in which his arm gets fucked up badly.

He sneak attacked Opera, someone who his LEAGUES below Queen and he did kinda low-dif Who's Who after getting mad. Jinbei simply sits in the space above Tobiroppo level but below the right and left hand of a Yonko. Nothing he has shown me implies that he is on the level to beat Queen, especially since his peers and superiors in combat Zoro and Sanji struggled hard before their power ups.

The All Stars are just a much bigger deal than the Flying Six and have been treated as such. You're giving Jinbei feats and portrayal he just doesn't have. If we're being honest, Jinbei probably loses to Jack.
 

Sachsenhesse

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Since jimbei has yet to go all out onscreen its kinda hard to tell. Normally i would give it to him, since hiswatertechniques against devilfruitusers are always helpful. And queen wasnt in the least impressive at all. Between Jack and King, Queen should be the weakest one in a 1v1.
 

McNuss

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especially since his peers and superiors in combat Zoro and Sanji struggled hard before their power ups.
Where on Earth did anyone struggle hard with Queen?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

He has a feat of pushing back Big Mam and dealing no damage
And this is something you made up.
 

grey matter

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Honestly, don't know.

Queen is physically stronger and more durable.
But, Jinbe is better in speed and CQC.

I'll just give Queen the win high-extreme diff, cause I see Jinbe ~ Jack, while Queen canonically has portrayal over Jack

Queen high Diff. Jimbei gets caught off guard by Brachiosaurus secret grapple & the missles take him out.
What if both have intel of each other?
 

Ricko

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Really depend of Jimbei level of CoO, if he get caught by the snake attack, I think it's the end of Jimbei.

I'll give it to Queen High Diff.
Jimbei is not as fast as Sanji, he's more a good match up for Queen.
And I'm not sur that Jimbei got an attack level similar of exoskeleton Sanji to end the fight.
 

grey matter

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Jimbei is not as fast as Sanji, he's more a good match up for Queen.
Jinbe should be above pre Germa awakening Sanji IMO.

And, this Sanji was smacking around Queen too. Only issue was, then Sanji didn't have enough fire power to deal with Queen's tankiness.


Don't think speed would be an issue for Jinbe, Queen isn't exactly fast or good in CQC.
The biggest obstacle that Jinbe would have, is Queen's durability (as was the case for Sanji).

But Jinbe hits decently hard as well, as we saw against Who's Who (arguably strongest tobiroppo) and BM. So, he should have the attack power to put down Queen as well.

The fight is quite ambiguous IMO.
If I'm going purely by feats, I give Jinbe the win high diff. But I consider portrayal/intent from Oda as well, so maybe Queen beats Jinbe high-extreme diff


And I'm not sur that Jimbei got an attack level similar of exoskeleton Sanji to end the fight.
You don't need that kind of attack power though.

Sanji outclassed Queen once his Germa bio awakened. Queen was no longer his superior or even his equal, he was the undisputable underdog in that fight.
It seemed like an extreme diff (i.e with Sanji passing out) only because of what happened to Sanji prior to the awakening.

I mean, put full power Sanji against Queen. And Sanji wins with a mid-high diff
 

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Where on Earth did anyone struggle hard with Queen?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You're not reading. Sanji would flat out lost if his germa genes didn't kick in.


And this is something you made up.
Word, show me Big Mam having any type of significant injury after that move?
 

McNuss

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You're not reading. Sanji would flat out lost if his germa genes didn't kick in.
When? Don't forget the emotional drama inside him is his own fault and not really related to powerlevels. Also, believable he would, though not anytime soon. Sanji prior to the power-up shouldn't be able to beat the Franky Shogun if we are realistic.

Which speaks for itself on how weak Queen is within his respective tier. The deadliness comes from the plagues, a power that clearly exists in-universe and that should have inflated his bounty close to King's as it can wipe out, actually it can wipe out all of humanity and everyone right now got a glimpse of it, but a power that can never be used in Shonen combat unless the enemy is a doctor, as such we cannot really use it in our arguments.

And I know this is going to explode now, but for an entire DECADE the ENTIRE community was whining about Sanji and how we weak he his and disappointing and blah blah blah. And power-wise, that's pretty true prior to the power-up, which is drastical and one of the largest power-ups we have ever seen in the series (the other large ones would be Nami's first climate tact and receiving Zeus).

What people need to keep in mind is the progression of the series:

Jinbe is a 46 year old veteran and former Shishibukai from the post-Roger era, the "Era Whitebeard". He has not shown his full potential yet. He is tertiary in relevancy among the Straw Hats and as such is unlikely to get more fights than Sanji, and without any narrative need and the current potential unknown very unlikely to get any power-up. He will simply reveal his remaining ultimate abilities and that's it.

Sanji on the other hand is a 21 year old rookie from the current era (Luffy's era). He also has not shown his current potential either. He is primary in relevancy among the Straw Hats, and arguably no other Straw Hat has lead more sideline plots than him, and as such is highly likely to get more than one fight given how many antagonist groups there are remaining. The way it looks like, with the "Wings of the Pirate King" thing, he is pretty guaranteed to kick either Kizarus's or Ryukugyu's ass, on top of an opponent from the Blackbeard Pirates. This is Shonen and Sanji is a character meant for the readers to identify with, also we don't even know what exactly happened with him. Sanji will get another power-up and possibly even more (hello CoC), that's for sure.

I think the assumption Jinbe could not beat Queen is a result from inflating Sanji without any actual need for it. Sanji is a progressing character and an arc later everyone here will never talk about Queen again. Jinbe is a frozen character, he did not power-up after two years and will not power-up again. If anyone wants to give him at least some decency, Queen should be a piece of cake for him.
 

Crimson Ice

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When? Don't forget the emotional drama inside him is his own fault and not really related to powerlevels. Also, believable he would, though not anytime soon. Sanji prior to the power-up shouldn't be able to beat the Franky Shogun if we are realistic.

Which speaks for itself on how weak Queen is within his respective tier. The deadliness comes from the plagues, a power that clearly exists in-universe and that should have inflated his bounty close to King's as it can wipe out, actually it can wipe out all of humanity and everyone right now got a glimpse of it, but a power that can never be used in Shonen combat unless the enemy is a doctor, as such we cannot really use it in our arguments.

And I know this is going to explode now, but for an entire DECADE the ENTIRE community was whining about Sanji and how we weak he his and disappointing and blah blah blah. And power-wise, that's pretty true prior to the power-up, which is drastical and one of the largest power-ups we have ever seen in the series (the other large ones would be Nami's first climate tact and receiving Zeus).

What people need to keep in mind is the progression of the series:

Jinbe is a 46 year old veteran and former Shishibukai from the post-Roger era, the "Era Whitebeard". He has not shown his full potential yet. He is tertiary in relevancy among the Straw Hats and as such is unlikely to get more fights than Sanji, and without any narrative need and the current potential unknown very unlikely to get any power-up. He will simply reveal his remaining ultimate abilities and that's it.

Sanji on the other hand is a 21 year old rookie from the current era (Luffy's era). He also has not shown his current potential either. He is primary in relevancy among the Straw Hats, and arguably no other Straw Hat has lead more sideline plots than him, and as such is highly likely to get more than one fight given how many antagonist groups there are remaining. The way it looks like, with the "Wings of the Pirate King" thing, he is pretty guaranteed to kick either Kizarus's or Ryukugyu's ass, on top of an opponent from the Blackbeard Pirates. This is Shonen and Sanji is a character meant for the readers to identify with, also we don't even know what exactly happened with him. Sanji will get another power-up and possibly even more (hello CoC), that's for sure.

I think the assumption Jinbe could not beat Queen is a result from inflating Sanji without any actual need for it. Sanji is a progressing character and an arc later everyone here will never talk about Queen again. Jinbe is a frozen character, he did not power-up after two years and will not power-up again. If anyone wants to give him at least some decency, Queen should be a piece of cake for him.
Throughout the entire first half of the fight, Sanji struggled to put lasting damage on Queen, not to mention that SANJI GETS ALMOST EVERY BONE IN HIS BODY SHATTERED. If it weren't for Germa regen, he would have lost. As the internal conflict that started after the power-up, Sanji at that point would have already lost, med-dif at best. As for the bolded, this is only realistic if you're reading Two Piece.

That's not an indictment on Queen; it's just wild headcanon. The notion that Queen's plague is the bulk of his strength is laughable at best. The plagues are just nasty experiments that can only directly work on fodder. No single plague is effective in a one on one fight against anyone of significant strength.

No Sanji has got slandered for years, most in the Sanji vs Zoro debates, his feats were somewhat underwhelming, but he always had portrayal on his side. It has been constantly reminded that Sanji was a powerful character still seen as Zoro's rival and a part of the monster trio. The only complaint was that Zoro and Luffy had received more love than Sanji in terms of combat, which was true. Anyone doubting Sanji's hierarchy in the crew was an idiot.

Sanji and Jinbei's plot relevancy is not as relevant to them fighting as you make it out to be. Despite everything you named for Sanji, his fight with Queen is his first full-on one-on-one fight since 2007. And no, I'm not inflating Sanji. Jinbei has zero feats and PORTRAYAL, implying he's above Sanji, even before the power-up. You mention the lack of fights Jinbei has, but narratively nothing puts him on Sanji and Zoro's level. Queen flat out calls Sanji and Zoro the third and second strongest Straw Hats; even if you want to say Queen didn't know about Jinbei joining (which I still don't respect, look at the author's intent with that statement), look at who everyone fought. For years, Oda showed the crew's strength hierarchy through who they fought and beat. Sanji and Zoro fought two All-Stars, the strongest two, yet Jinbei? He was delegated to a Flying Six member. It's crazy because Oda wanted to he could have had the third All-Star; Jack fight Jinbei but didn't. The writing is clearly on the wall.



Jinbei, at the end of the day, has been someone portrayed as strong, even by New World standards, but the problem is that it's too vague. Someone being strong in the New World could range from Vergo, to Doflamingo to an Admiral. Jinbei, by no standards, has the feats or portrayal to beat Queen, let alone with the ease your post implied.
 

really_jonny

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As in my opinion Sanji and Zoro are above calamities, which was shown at the end of both fights with them showing their true strength (Super Super Speed+Ifrit Jambe/Haoshoku En-You Santoryu), for me it's ok to fit Jinbei in the same level as Queen (Commander Level 2, as put it on my Tier List).

Sanji is much stronger than Queen and Jinbe is much stronger than WW, this one who was a candidate for Calamity.
 

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Jimbe wins this high diff. His feats are beyond what Queen has shown.

Jimbe in the war stopped a magma punch from enraged Akainu (just like shanks did), survived getting pierced by that same guy (same attack killed YC level Ace).
both Jimbe and Queen were put into situations where they had to handle big mom.
Queen koed a haki less amnesiac big mom whereas Jimbe could push back big mom from the ship when she was using all her homies haki etc.

He fighting whose who is not an indication of his power level especially when Jimbe won mid diff.

it’s clear that Oda saved Jack for the mink revenge.
He then went out of his way to say that the strongest tobi roppo were on calamity level yet had the strongest non trio straw hats defeat them with relative ease.
 

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Jimbe wins this high diff. His feats are beyond what Queen has shown.

Jimbe in the war stopped a magma punch from enraged Akainu (just like shanks did), survived getting pierced by that same guy (same attack killed YC level Ace).
both Jimbe and Queen were put into situations where they had to handle big mom.
Queen koed a haki less amnesiac big mom whereas Jimbe could push back big mom from the ship when she was using all her homies haki etc.

He fighting whose who is not an indication of his power level especially when Jimbe won mid diff.

it’s clear that Oda saved Jack for the mink revenge.
He then went out of his way to say that the strongest tobi roppo were on calamity level yet had the strongest non trio straw hats defeat them with relative ease.
Oda said no such thing. Matter of fact, we don't know who the strongest Tobi Roppo were, only that Sasaki and Who's Who wanted to fight for the position of All-Star.

And the strength of opponents's the Straw Hate fight isn't strength indicators? Let's stop this.
 
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