Games Mafia Game 107 - ACNH: The ManHel Tale - Game End

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Farfalla

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Aight, here are the game infos (setup and actions):
IDAffiliationPrimary RoleSecondary RoleSanityPlayer
1TownDetectiveInsaneMadNat
2TownSpySaneBrandish
3TownDoctorSaneAsako
4TownBansheeGB
5TownNecromancerShad
6TownPsychiatristBaka Taichou
7TownProstituteEvil3ye
8TownBulletproofLambu
9TownMorticiandigital
10TownPsychiatristHolt
11TownProsecutorLady Pompom
12Third PartySanta ClausKat
13Town/MafiaPirateTraitorJames Rye
13Town/MafiaNobleTraitorCrescent
15MafiaMafia DetectiveSirSamuel
16MafiaStrongmanGrySun
17MafiaMafia EscortCopy Panda
18MafiaPirateMarmalade
GIFTS LIST

❄ Brewster's Gift "Drink it hot or give it up." (Hot Potato)
The Hot Potato explodes at the end of a day designated by the host before the start of the game, killing the player holding it. The holder of the Hot Potato doesn't know when it will explode, but he can pass it to another player at night, separately from any night ability he has. This passing can't be blocked. If the holder gets killed, the Potato explodes killing both the holder and the killer; if the holder is lynched, the Potato [dies with him].
❄ Kicks' Gift "You never know how things might turn out." (single-use Bar Keeper redirect)
One player ends up being the drunkest and uses his night action on a random player.
❄ CJ's Gift "A night cruise is a good way to catch night fish." (single-use Mafia Detective)
The Mafia Detective has the ability to investigate one player per Night and learn the player's Role. Only he is told the role of his target via PM. Whenever the Mafia Detective's investigation ability is performed, he cannot be chosen to go for a kill on the same night.
❄ Wisp's Gift "Tah-Dahh!" (this player's votes are worded as "Ho ho ho" during the next day)

❄ Jingle's Gift "Isn't this the best time of the year, kid?" Mandatory 5th Gift
(Santa Clause: this gift allows the game to go on. At the end of the game, Santa wins with the other winning party. Happy celebration ;)



Now first lemme thank @Erinyes for her massive participation in the game. At first, I got the November slot to host alone, and she asked me to join and I'm so happy she did! She's not only a very curious and interested person so we had a very nice and easy time discussing our ideas, but she also has the strength and endurance of a lion... I was often dead while we were hosting, but Erinchi followed everything and kept the game organized. She barely slept @.@ And that's a testimony I really needed to share with you all, 'cause her dedication and calm deserve lots of appreciation.

Also thanks @Hardy and @Vandred for double-checking the game mech (and in Poop's case, the comp as well) and giving us your honest thoughts, so we could try to present a game that would be fair and entertaining to people.

And finally, even tho some other points were addressed already, I'd like to thank all the players, from the heart. I know this game was too soon because of my availability due to local holidays, and I know you guys were tired - which for sure didn't improve during this time lol. So I really need to commend you all, because you guys were either putting in a lot of time and effort inside the game, analyzing and discussing nonstop, or in the deadpad - you guys also got no rest. As hosts, that's the biggest kind of feedback we could get: to have you guys really onboard. Some moves were questionable, but no one can't say any of those teams weren't trying... it's only natural that drained people will make some mistakes, so to me that's another sign of the praise you guys deserve.

Quick comments about the game that I've mentioned in the deadpad already: in general, the idea with the mech was to add a simple new function (and we tried to map beforehand the main game new considerations we'd need to have it in place) but that could allow a new set of strategical moves to be exploited - now I would reconsider the priority we used since we realize it would have been more adherent to people's preference. The game also had 2 Traitors 'cause Pirate is a VERY weak mafia that can suicide and lose the ability to kill later on, so we wanted to give them better odds (lemme say it one more time in here that the notion that means town had 2 extra people to lynch is wrong, first because town had 2 killing tools in the Prosecutor and the Banshee, and second because they don't need to eliminate unrecruited traitors to win). It had 2 Psys 'cause even tho we wanted mafia to have better chances to recruit, that didn't mean we wanted them to recruit BOTH, so town had more chances to find at least one on the other hand (even if one role would get erased eventually), and at the same time the role could cause some confusion that mafia could exploit. The Mortician came in place to trace stuff like Santa and fake claims/transfers regarding any role/action that got "buried" - imo it's more effective than the SM because it can target antitown and spot unknown stuff that could still be in-game; it was a late game resource that had good chances of being effective with the role transfer mech. The Necromancer was also in there for its recycling capabilities since we'd have roles being lost, and in this setup it would be less OP than it usually is, since his options would still be reduced. The Santa was there for extra fun, imo, since the role could still be used even if the OG player and their wincon was gone: two gifts - that we expected to be the last ones - were clear signs that there was a Santa in-game in case it would fly by too successfully - and even that was just to cause some ruckus since the last gift allowed the game to go on after Santa would win - which to me it's a needed measure so we won't have sudden major frustration with an unexpected game end (I do understand why the game usually has to end when Santa is in it, so people don't ignore the role, but in this case we saw an opportunity to play around that and fix the issue regarding that); Santa's other gifts were there to provide some extra spice but unfortunately, as you can see in the night actions, I made a mistake while processing GB's action with the Hot Potato. GB got blocked by Evil when he tried to pass it to James and I overlooked it that the passing can't be blocked. It would have been simple to fix it during the day by PMing the both of them if Bran didn't spy on GB and, coincidentally, Sam hadn't claimed the exact same action and outcome. After discussing with some people, we reached the conclusion that the attitude that would cause the least interference and damage to a bigger number of players would be to just remove the Hot Potato from the game and inform that to GB, which is what we did.

GG mafia, you fought the long battle and won! GG town, it's never easy to be on the more clueless side, trying to put pieces together. GG Santa cause Santa is always fun~
 

MadNat

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I found nothing about Pirate dying as Pirate in the Interaction list, neither for Townie nor Mafia:



Mafia Pirate

  • See Mafia Detective/Janitor for reveals of some stolen roles
  • Any player that has his ability stolen will have his Actions ignored by the host, as he no longer has an action.
so you thinking Marm stole my role? and therefore my action will get ignored now
 

Evil3ye

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I found nothing about Pirate dying as Pirate in the Interaction list, neither for Townie nor Mafia:

Pirate

  • See Mafia Detective/Janitor for reveals of some stolen roles
  • Any player that has his ability stolen will have his Actions ignored by the host, as he no longer has an action.
  • Mason - stealing the Mason role makes the Pirate automatically join the Mason group
  • Innocent Child - is revealed on the correct day if stolen before the reveal, nothing happens if stolen after reveal
  • Paranoid Gun Owner - dies if he‘s the first player targeting the PGO. If the shot has already been used then PGO is stolen but the shot is already used up
  • Vigilante/Prosecutor/Bomb Defuser/Pirate - if their 1-time ability has already been used then it can‘t be used again after stealing. If it hasn't then he can use the role.
  • Kamikaze Bomb - the Pirate explodes on the same night as it was for the player he stole it from
  • Mason Recruiter - steals the role but doesn't become part of the Recruiter's group he stole the role from
  • Cannot steal secondary roles, those stay with the person he targets

Mafia Pirate

  • See Mafia Detective/Janitor for reveals of some stolen roles
  • Any player that has his ability stolen will have his Actions ignored by the host, as he no longer has an action.
  • Mason - Stealing the Mason role makes the M. Pirate automatically join the Mason group
  • Sleeper - can be targeted for a kill by a team member to turn him into a normal Mafia Member than can kill
  • Sleeper - if there is another mafia group and one mafia from that group tries killing the Mafia Pirate Sleeper, he still dies
  • Insane Apprentice - Will work the same as Sane Apprentice, dying when trying to learn a non-townie role
  • Innocent Child - revealed on the correct day if stolen before the reveal, nothing happens if stolen after reveal
  • Jesus - when he dies, he dies as regular Townie and revives like a Jesus would, while still being a mafia
  • Paranoid Gun Owner - dies if he‘s the first player targeting the PGO. If the shot has already been used, PGO is stolen but the shot is already used up
  • Vigilante/Prosecutor/Bomb Defuser/Pirate - if their 1-time ability has already been used then it can‘t be used again after stealing. If it hasn't then he can use the role
  • Kamikaze Bomb - the M. Pirate explodes on the same night as it was for the player he stole it from
  • Mason Recruiter - lets the Mafia Pirate recruit townies into his own new Mason group
  • Cannot steal secondary roles, those stay with the person he targets
Same for the Role rules:

Mafia Pirate (Mafia) At a night of his choice the Mafia Pirate may choose a Townie he wants to steal the ability from. From that point in the game, the robbed Townie's role changes to 'Townie' without him knowing it and the Mafia Pirate is free to use it as his own. The Mafia Pirate knows the ability stolen and uses it at the proper Day or Night phase that the stolen role demands. All original clauses of the stolen ability apply. If the Mafia Pirate tries to steal the ability from a Mafia or a Third Party Member as primary role, the Mafia Pirate dies. The Mafia Pirate is able to be selected as a mafia killer until he successfully steals a role - after that point, he can only kill by indirect means if he's stolen a role with killing capabilities (Insane Doctor, Daytime Vigilante, etc.). (GAME 41)

So by all means, this means Marm died with her original role and wasn't either able to steal one or simply hasn't used it yet which makes no sense for night 2 with so many potential targets.

Buddies I found it:

-After the Mafia Pirate steals a role, when they die they still show up as Mafia Pirate.

Also something to consider:

6. Mafia Pirate is able to be selected as a mafia killer until he successfully steals a role - after that point, he can only kill by indirect means if he's stolen a role with killing capabilities (Insane Doctor, Daytime Vigilante, etc.)
Marmalade wouldn't be able to kill. So as Mafia I would let her steal something to disable a role from town, and then overwrite her role with a dead mafia role. Makes most sense. But she died as Pirate and not Strongman, so perhaps she didn't attempt to steal on N1 and actually died trying on N2!!
 

James Rye

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so you thinking Marm stole my role? and therefore my action will get ignored now
No, that's the thing. If Marm stole your role she should have died as Detective with (Mafia Pirate) next to it. But since Marm died as regular Mafia Pirate without a changed role it means Marm got killed before using her role or she used her role on a TP which auto-kills her in her original role. So you should still have your original role. But because Det is so important and Mafia Pirate basically works as a role killer by stealing roles the Mafia should have picked you last night to steal your role, render you useless and use their Escort for other means. So either they didn't do that for whatever reason or they did and died doing so probably either due a TP kill on Marm, 50:50 as stealing and killing happens at the same time, or due you being TP and Marm dying to her Role rules to it. That's why I suggested you might have been recruited in night 1 by a Mentor though that is only a guess that I cannot verify.
 

MadNat

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"If the Mafia Pirate tries to steal the ability from a Mafia or a Third Party Member as primary role, the Mafia Pirate dies."
but i don't have Mafia or a primary TP role
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

sry but that Pirate issue is kinda confusing...and idk my brain feels dead compared to me in-game
 

Crescent Jinx

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@Lambu

isn’t he still playing the game? Been waiting for one of his theories
 

Evil3ye

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He knows but I'm not taking any risks, plus I have follow up questions and I don't like how he is wasting time.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



If a recruitment happened day 1, mafia could be pushing the poisoner narrative to cover for it.

But then they would expect us to believe a kill is missing from D2.

You can confirm if you were robbed today by going for Baka, because her role gets a response back! Doesn't confirm though whether you were robbed by Marmalade or Panda. Or you even get blocked and won't know. But worth a try?
 

MadNat

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do we have a mafia zombie or townie zombie... i feel like that atm :sleepy
 

Evil3ye

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priority maybe hmmm

Think so. If Panda were to really target her, the necromancing action is P3 while mortician check is P2, so it wouldn't show on that night. But it is possible to see on the following night, ergo N3. You could check again I think.
 

James Rye

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Buddies I found it:



Also something to consider:

Marmalade wouldn't be able to kill. So as Mafia I would let her steal something to disable a role from town, and then overwrite her role with a dead mafia role. Makes most sense. But she died as Pirate and not Strongman, so perhaps she didn't attempt to steal on N1 and actually died trying on N2!!
AH! Yeah with this system MP is a good candidate to receive Strongman and Gry not giving it to Marm and Nat still living means mafia didn't used their Strongman on Nat because they no longer got it. Or the Poisoner got it but for whatever reason they keep holding onto it.

"If the Mafia Pirate tries to steal the ability from a Mafia or a Third Party Member as primary role, the Mafia Pirate dies."
but i don't have Mafia or a primary TP role
Yes, but just like you cannot verify my claim about not being lovers without a psy checking on me a 2nd time, I cannot verify your claim of still being Det until another Det clears you. But even if you were recruited as Mentee townie would not bother killing you just like they didn't with me last day. It's because Mentee/Lovers die if the Mentor/other lover die.
Ofc I ain't lover but I can't prove that till a psy checks on me a 2nd time. Or until I die then town will see I wasn't Lover, but eh,it is what it is. :emocat

You can confirm if you were robbed today by going for Baka, because her role gets a response back! Doesn't confirm though whether you were robbed by Marmalade or Panda. Or you even get blocked and won't know. But worth a try?
Can a role even be taken by Necro if the role has been passed on previously? Baka transfers her role this day phase so she should be a regular townie if Necro is used on her otherwise a role would get "doubled" due transfer and Necro taking the same role as well.
 

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Think so. If Panda were to really target her, the necromancing action is P3 while mortician check is P2, so it wouldn't show on that night. But it is possible to see on the following night, ergo N3. You could check again I think.
Perhaps...
 

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@MadNat Scratch what I said about the whole Mafia Pirate dying with the stolen role, Evil found the explanation that this isn't the case, so perhaps Marm did steal your role before she got killed. Even so you should have received a result last night because your investigation is of higher prio than stealing, the only way this could have happened is if Mafia used both Escort and Mafia Pirate on you, to prevent you from getting a result, which incriminates Cresce mostly as that was the player most of us expected to be checked upon by you, and to keep you from getting future results as if Marm's steal was successful you would now be a regular townie.
 

Shad

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priority maybe hmmm
Thanks guys, the question was directed to you.

But fine I will take DD reaction as information enough
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Panda answer, your delay is not helping you busy man
 

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AH! Yeah with this system MP is a good candidate to receive Strongman and Gry not giving it to Marm and Nat still living means mafia didn't used their Strongman on Nat because they no longer got it. Or the Poisoner got it but for whatever reason they keep holding onto it.
I don't really understand priority 0 passing and if the mafia guy can watch their night pad tbh, so I have no idea. Perhaps they could have used already Strongman on N1 if they picked Person X to perform kill and Person X get passed that dead role. I have no idea. @Farfalla
In that case they couldnt let marmalade steal something and get the role passed, because her role would be overwritten prior to that.



Can a role even be taken by Necro if the role has been passed on previously? Baka transfers her role this day phase so she should be a regular townie if Necro is used on her otherwise a role would get "doubled" due transfer and Necro taking the same role as well.
That is also some game specific rules that are not our normal forum rules, better to ask hosts. @Erinyes
 

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Yes, but just like you cannot verify my claim about not being lovers without a psy checking on me a 2nd time, I cannot verify your claim of still being Det until another Det clears you. But even if you were recruited as Mentee townie would not bother killing you just like they didn't with me last day. It's because Mentee/Lovers die if the Mentor/other lover die.
Ofc I ain't lover but I can't prove that till a psy checks on me a 2nd time. Or until I die then town will see I wasn't Lover, but eh,it is what it is. :emocat
yeah i might can't proof my claim, but on the other hand i try not to fool town and maybe give them the opportunity to think twice before predict... bc it would lead them all wrong...
we already good fooled about Asako... and i can't tell more about me than i know about my person in-game (don't think real life gets here important^^)... and atm i said everything what i can claim...
and this time i am solo playing not as last time as i got gladly recruited
and my action failed and i am useless ... i mean yeah mafia could kill me during night, i might be anyway useless even for town
 

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yeah i might can't proof my claim, but on the other hand i try not to fool town and maybe give them the opportunity to think twice before predict... bc it would lead them all wrong...
we already good fooled about Asako... and i can't tell more about me than i know about my person in-game (don't think real life gets here important^^)... and atm i said everything what i can claim...
and this time i am solo playing not as last time as i got gladly recruited
and my action failed and i am useless ... i mean yeah mafia could kill me during night, i might be anyway useless even for town
You did good, Nat, you did good. Don't let the scumbag Mafias bully you. Once the Escort is dead, we will know the truth if you can provide results again. Until then let's both be useless for town. :comfort
 

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@MadNat Scratch what I said about the whole Mafia Pirate dying with the stolen role, Evil found the explanation that this isn't the case, so perhaps Marm did steal your role before she got killed. Even so you should have received a result last night because your investigation is of higher prio than stealing, the only way this could have happened is if Mafia used both Escort and Mafia Pirate on you, to prevent you from getting a result, which incriminates Cresce mostly as that was the player most of us expected to be checked upon by you, and to keep you from getting future results as if Marm's steal was successful you would now be a regular townie.
I did not receive any results, no answer to it or failing situation....
and 2 mafias during night against me, that is an extrem action against me and now i am a vanilla useless townie or whatever
:emocat
 

Evil3ye

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yeah i might can't proof my claim, but on the other hand i try not to fool town and maybe give them the opportunity to think twice before predict... bc it would lead them all wrong...
we already good fooled about Asako... and i can't tell more about me than i know about my person in-game (don't think real life gets here important^^)... and atm i said everything what i can claim...
and this time i am solo playing not as last time as i got gladly recruited
and my action failed and i am useless ... i mean yeah mafia could kill me during night, i might be anyway useless even for town
You did good, Nat, you did good. Don't let the scumbag Mafias bully you. Once the Escort is dead, we will know the truth if you can provide results again. Until then let's both be useless for town. :comfort

Hey, we're not useless, we can still use our brains and vote, cheer up buddies! That said, would you jump on a GB train? :errr
 

MadNat

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GB train? sounds like Great Britain Train ... sry for bad joke or so...but just realized it :feelsgoodman
 
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