I don't remember when it was but I recall reading something about him walking out in the middle of production of season 2. A bit of this does feel like grrm wanting to bloat the story endlessly while the rest of the people are working under the assumption that the story has to end at some point.
Anyone read GRRM's comments on the second season? Pretty brutal, brutal enough that it makes sense that he deleted the comments. I really need to read house of the dragon, I didn't realize they had deleted an entire targaryen.
Was looking forward to later posts since that one seemed to only address the first 2 seasons. But with that being said, his criticisms were very silly and didn't have a ton to do with the show's shortcomings IMO. It was more about him apparently being lied to by someone over certain plotpoints. Well, that's my theory anyways since it makes very little sense for him to speak out in the way he did when he basically did nothing like this during latter seasons of GoT.
He was in communication with Ryan Condal but he didn't have credits for writing like he did in early GoT. He does have a former assistant of his (Ti Mikkel) who works as a writer on the show now and that's likely how he's getting leaked info on future seasons that he's seemingly not happy about.
I don't remember when it was but I recall reading something about him walking out in the middle of production of season 2. A bit of this does feel like grrm wanting to bloat the story endlessly while the rest of the people are working under the assumption that the story has to end at some point.
He was in communication with Ryan Condal but he didn't have credits for writing like he did in early GoT. He does have a former assistant of his (Ti Mikkel) who works as a writer on the show now and that's likely how he's getting leaked info on future seasons that he's seemingly not happy about.
Didn't know all that. I would have assumed, after what happen with the original series, that he wouldn't have allowed any more to be made if he didn't have some kind of say so in the overall plot... I suppose this makes the Nettles thing even more likely to be truth.
Didn't know all that. I would have assumed, after what happen with the original series, that he wouldn't have allowed any more to be made if he didn't have some kind of say so in the overall plot... I suppose this makes the Nettles thing even more likely to be truth.
He would probably prefer this, but it's probably not in his contract. He basically sold the development rights for the franchise to HBO, how much control he does or doesn't have probably isn't a factor of said contract. He has input as a producer, but probably no veto power when it comes to stuff. This is why the pilot for the Long Night series was such a mess and he's sort of hinted at being glad it went nowhere.
He likely picked Condal because he trusted him and it would seem like perhaps that trust being broken or called into question is driving him to write posts like these and speak publicly to others about his frustrations.
I knew it was happening from last season's reveal but it really, *really* soured this premier for me. When the show was first announced forever ago, Nettles was like the ONE thing I was looking forward to. The lore implications of having this commoner nobody who had no apparent dragonblood whatsoever was awesome. It widened the world and what was possible. It was like that kid at the end of TLJ picking up the broom with the force out of instinct.
And this change is exactly like the TROS immediately smothering that very cool possibility in the grave, the idea regular people can also become special, that is utterly infuriating. It's literally just all magic incest blood, cool beans, great story.
Also I'm not one to bag on child actors but holy shit was she a cardboard cutout. I don't envy that poor girl having to act like she's taming mighty tennis balls on a stick in front of a green screen but gods damned, Ryan Condal, maybe make better casting and story decisions.
Also the incest kiss in this episode does not bode well for this ridiculous change of replacing Nettles with Daemon's daughter. Fucking yuck.
No Nettles damages the potential of this show. Making Rhaena accidentally contribute to Jace's demise is a layer of tragedy that the show doesn't actually need.
I'm going to continue to go the naive route and assume that at worst it'll be something Rhaenyra is convinced is true but isn't. Her driving herself nuts out of jealousy certainly makes less sense when Nettles doesn't exist though so I'm not sure how they'll get there. But I'm probably in the unpopular camp of Nettles not being Daemon's lover anyway. I think he was obsessed with her because of what she was able to do, but I don't think that means his relationship with her had to be that kind.
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I feel like this episode was like 5/10 for the first half and then the battle scene and stuff with Corlys and Alyn was approaching 9/10. So this episode kinda averaged out to a 7/10.
I'm going to continue to go the naive route and assume that at worst it'll be something Rhaenyra is convinced is true but isn't. Her driving herself nuts out of jealousy certainly makes less sense when Nettles doesn't exist though so I'm not sure how they'll get there. But I'm probably in the unpopular camp of Nettles not being Daemon's lover anyway. I think he was obsessed with her because of what she was able to do, but I don't think that means his relationship with her had to be that kind.
I feel like this episode was like 5/10 for the first half and then the battle scene and stuff with Corlys and Alyn was approaching 9/10. So this episode kinda averaged out to a 7/10.
My ideal situation would've been Nettles leading Daemon on but never actually putting out, but Rhaenyra sees this as them having obviously been together much the same way people suspected her of having slept with Daemon before she actually did and that projection makes her spiral into paranoia. Throw in a scene of Matt Smith having another hallucinatory sex dream, this time of Nettles, so that even he thinks it might've happened and bam- best of all worlds. But no now we get a nothing character put into this moment solely to inflate the tragedy in the moment at the expense of a much better story.
Absolutely agree on that. I predicted it'd be mediocre in general but instead I got half annoying slog and half incredible, one of the best battles in the whole franchise... which inadvertently balanced out to mediocre lol
My ideal situation would've been Nettles leading Daemon on but never actually putting out, but Rhaenyra sees this as them having obviously been together much the same way people suspected her of having slept with Daemon before she actually did and that projection makes her spiral into paranoia. Throw in a scene of Matt Smith having another hallucinatory sex dream, this time of Nettles, so that even he thinks it might've happened and bam- best of all worlds. But no now we get a nothing character put into this moment solely to inflate the tragedy in the moment at the expense of a much better story.
Yeah, I think the tragedy of the books - Jace entering battle because Aegon the younger escaped and warned everyone at Dragonstone would have worked just fine. Yet we didn't see him or Viserys so perhaps that storyline won't even bother being established before the show ends? Who knows.
And instead of all of the dragons fighting we had the three larger ones doing nothing, shitting, or running into what I can only assume is Condoll's interpretation of what one of the Green Men is....yikes.
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Just realized that if they're not going to establish anything with Aegon the Younger or Viserys, then that means no Hour of the Wolf? Or at least, it couldn't do it justice really. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself but idk, the plot changes are a bit of a jumbled mess.
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Got a bit ahead of myself, apparently Condall has addressed the Aegon and Viserys stuff but blamed it on the characters being too young in the story currently....which is a choice the production made since Aegon should at least be 10 and Viserys 8 at this point. Now I'm wondering why they did that in the first place? Save money by casting toddlers as extras instead of child actors? Don't get it.
Just got done watching episode 2, I think it kind of maintains strengths of the first episode but what really is staying with me is the showrunner's apparent memory hole in completely forgetting Helaena is a dragonrider and that Dreamfyre is in King's Landing.
1. Helaena doesn't mention Dreamfyre once when attempting to flee
2. She oddly mentions raising....chickens? But doesn't think about her most important pet/animal companion
3. Even if it's a known fact that Helaena's connection with Dreamfyre still renders her useless, how does Helaena not even think about her dragon once when leaving?
4. The biggest thing in this conflict is how many fucking dragons each side has - Daemon and Rhaenyra talk about Sheepstealer being at The Gullet and what that might mean for the conflict
5. NO ONE in the Black faction brings up Dreamfyre when talking about taking King's Landing despite Dreamfyre being an adult dragon
Idk if this "ruins" the episode for me but it's so fucking stupid in my opinion that it kind of boggles my mind how the writers overlooked it entirely.
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Great performance by Emma D'Arcy, but I'm not buying that THIS Rhaenyra was angry enough to behead Otto, and she's certainly not doing something like ordering Rhaena's death.
The writers on this show can't get out of their own fucking way. So much good stuff ruined by the dumbest, most nonsensical acts.
Why the fuck would Daemon, a dragon-pervert obsessed with all dragons known and unknown take "Daeron" hostage and just leave Tessarion riderless with the Hightowers?
Oh that's right, it's a requirement for the Ormund bait-and-switch to have ever happened.
This kind of thing is one of the major issues latter-day Game of Thrones had, where the plot requires the characters to do things they would never do, instead of the characters dictating the plot. What a stupid fucking change honestly. What does it even accomplish even? We have plenty of drama with King's Landing the beginning of Rhaenyra's descent into madness. I just don't get it.
Can't say I have been able to tell what the point of this season is yet. Last season it felt a bit like they tried to keep the "two queens" alive way too much, way past the point even alicent could actually retain power. Still haven't gotten around to reading the book but her thinking she could keep her power after her son took his position in the throne seems like book cercei levels of unhinged. And then she just.. talks to a few people and hands king's landing to rhaenyra? I suppose the kingsguard would have some affinity for Daemon but, dunno, I still don't buy it. Is this season written by chat gpt?
Can't say I have been able to tell what the point of this season is yet. Last season it felt a bit like they tried to keep the "two queens" alive way too much, way past the point even alicent could actually retain power. Still haven't gotten around to reading the book but her thinking she could keep her power after her son took his position in the throne seems like book cercei levels of unhinged. And then she just.. talks to a few people and hands king's landing to rhaenyra? I suppose the kingsguard would have some affinity for Daemon but, dunno, I still don't buy it. Is this season written by chat gpt?
I maintain that the major plot-related issue just from a plot-construction standpoint with the show is that they turned Alicent into a main character when she isn't one in the source material. What they did with her was smart for the sake of angst and history between her and Rhaenyra, but the issue is that because they cast Olivia Cooke in the role they have to give her a bunch of random shit to do in the story and a lot of it makes no sense given who the character is and the position she has (dowager queen). The notion that she let Rhaenyra take King's Landing is completely plausible idea but it's not really written about like it happened that way.
I might say that this season might still be better than last, but that could easily change. Not by a huge amount necessarily, but there's been some strong individual scenes.
On some level it is actually an annoying thing, because I could argue that HoTD is actually casted better than GoT was overall and the acting talent on display here is so good in the right scenes but when you try to fit it all together you realized how shittily written it is in many places. They really seemed to have no budget left for some sort of person in charge of continuity or something.
I've seen people say this elsewhere and back when they showed him but the actual rotting dragon was Meleys, Rhaenys' dragon....not that it still rotting weeks after they both died at Rook's Rest makes any sense.
Sunfyre was definitely chewed up and you see it in the face and we are made to think it's a corpse (for some reason) but it wasn't rotting. The logistics are dumb though, not sure why it was set up that way. Sunfyre is basically crippled but still fights killing attempts off in the source material.
Speaking of stupid logistics, how exactly are we made to believe that Ormund was able to treat with Ulf multiple times? There's no way he approached him on dragonback, so given the orders Ulf was given how the fuck did this relationship even begin in the first place? It makes no sense.
Also, I guess we're supposed to believe Helaena was on Dreamfyre's back in her dream, I like the look but I'm pretty sure we saw Dreamfyre in season 1 and she looked nothing like that. Plus, Dreamfyre is supposed to be blue/silver. Given the multi-faceted theory that Dany's eggs were from a clutch of Dreamfyre's, she looked like Drogon/Rhaegal/Viserion but just a different color. Not sure what's going on there.
Ah, I see. So the writers basically set it up this way to mislead viewers regarding the status of sunfyre for a cheap surprise.
What surprised me the most about Ormund and ulf meeting is not only the sheer absurdity of the logistics but also that Ormund is able to hold a conversation with an obvious targaryen bastard without throwing up. I don't question the tactical advantage of it but the guy has been framed as having a visceral distaste of the lowborn and targaryens. Ulf wanted to be a landed lord which is fine but throwing in driftmark just because he can seems like overkill.
As far as I can tell there's quite a few dragon eggs at play with the possibility of more. I am curious if GRRM will throw in a detail regarding what causes them to stop hatching later on in the timeline. I am not familiar with the theory regarding dreamfyre's eggs though I'd be curious as to how they would end up at pentos centuries later.
What surprised me the most about Ormund and ulf meeting is not only the sheer absurdity of the logistics but also that Ormund is able to hold a conversation with an obvious targaryen bastard without throwing up. I don't question the tactical advantage of it but the guy has been framed as having a visceral distaste of the lowborn and targaryens. Ulf wanted to be a landed lord which is fine but throwing in driftmark just because he can seems like overkill.
As far as I can tell there's quite a few dragon eggs at play with the possibility of more. I am curious if GRRM will throw in a detail regarding what causes them to stop hatching later on in the timeline. I am not familiar with the theory regarding dreamfyre's eggs though I'd be curious as to how they would end up at pentos centuries later.
Obviously, we can say they are hatched with magic, but we're not exactly certain if blood magic is always required or not, given we know that's how Dany hatched hers. As far as how Dreamfyre (or possibly Vhagar's) eggs ended up in Pentos is pretty much plotted out in Fire & Blood. The short of it is that Dreamfyre's original rider, Rhaena Targaryen (Aegon the Conqueror's first grandchild) had a female "friend" from House Farman named Elissa Farman, that got up to a whole bunch of hijinks and adventures. She basically stole a clutch of eggs from Dragonstone and it's generally assumed they were Dreamfyre's due to her relationship with Rhaena as well as the she-dragon's reputation for being prolific.
Alys Rivers finding dragon eggs at Harrenhal isn't really talked about directly in Fire & Blood, but there were rumors about her having a dragon. IIRC it was treated more as hearsay since her having one wasn't really of much consequence in the story. But Rhaena Targaryen spent her later years ruling Harrenhal so the idea that Dreamfyre could have laid eggs there isn't farfetched.