Chapter Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Chapter 254 Spoilers & Discussion

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[Yakkun]

Do you guys think Balin will receive a big role in the upcoming fight and maybe even die tragically? In the legends he is a tragic character but also someone who could impact Lancelot significantly if it goes somewhat like in his legend. Not outright slaying the Lady of the Lake since that seems impossible but his magic being rather passive in nature paired with his naturally high physical strength, skill and dursbility could be a bad match for Lancelot so he probably wouldn't just get instantly folded.

 

[kkck]

Iirc balin can alternate beyween repeling either magical or physical attacks. But if an attack is both he will take at least one hit. For lancelot this is childplay as all he has to do is imbue his spear with magic and then balin gets to chose between getting skewered or reduced to atoms.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Do you guys think Balin will receive a big role in the upcoming fight and maybe even die tragically? In the legends he is a tragic character but also someone who could impact Lancelot significantly if it goes somewhat like in his legend. Not outright slaying the Lady of the Lake since that seems impossible but his magic being rather passive in nature paired with his naturally high physical strength, skill and dursbility could be a bad match for Lancelot so he probably wouldn't just get instantly folded.

If Lancelot doesn't realize the gimmick behind his magic, he might put up a fight. However, all Lancelot really needs to do is use his Hazy Moon and then attack him with his spear. Either he gets vaporized by the Hazy Moon or skewered by the spear—his choice.

 

[Yakkun]

Here's hoping Balin and co. also do some training. Also, Balin himself should be aware now that he can't rely on his magic too much. Gawain has showed him that. He should at least learn to block and dodge (can't believe I'm writing this)

 

[Rey151203]

Spoiler: Reality Warping on This Scale Can Only Be the Work of Chaos,Right?

--- Double Post Merged, Sunday at 4:21 PM, Original Post Date: Saturday at 10:43 PM ---

Guys, I think I'm onto something very creepy about the future that the Knights of the Holy Grail came from, and the clue lies in Tristan's death in the future.

I've always assumed that the one who brought the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past was Chaos itself.

However, if we assume Chaos was defeated in the future as the villain of Part 3, how could it be the culprit?

This implies Chaos would already know it is going to be defeated. If it knew exactly what was going to happen, how could it actually lose?

There's also the idea that the Four Knights of the Apocalypse are called 'the greatest of heroes' and 'the heroes of Camelot.'

What exactly did they do to earn those titles? They must have done something truly extraordinary in the future.

What if they are considered the greatest heroes because they actually brought about the end of the old world?

Think about it: when they destroyed Cath, Chaos was freed and took over Arthur. Using its power, it destroyed the world and reshaped it into a new one.

But that's not all. Chaos might have also warped everyone's memories, brainwashing them into serving it under the guise of King Arthur, and using its reality-warping abilities to force them into keeping quiet about the incident

Tristan's death in the future could be the ultimate clue here. Since his power consists of both light and darkness—just like Chaos—he might have been the first to notice that something was wrong with their reality. Because he couldn't be controlled, Chaos decided to get rid of him

This isn't the first time this happened , OG Gowther used Mass Memory Manipulation on reality to create the whole Mael/Estarossa situation.

Chaos acting like Lucius Zogratis: killing the person who questioned him and revealing himself(Arthur/Julius for chaos/lucius) That would be funny lol



●If your theory is true, then there must be two timelines: the original timeline and the new timeline.It's not linear; the 5kohg's time travel created the new timeline: where these events(End of races, influence of chaos), will not occur and Arthur will do something that ends up preventing him from being influenced by chaos, I don't know if he would then summon the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past to alter the future; he probably knows what happens, besides the price for defying Fate It must have actually been Cath Palug itself or Arthur from the future, uninfluenced by Chaos, Or someone else from the future. So, a war between timelines? That would be interesting, lol, the main villain be the original chaos.

●We have information from a Part 3 and a Part 4, so Chaos would be the villain in Part 4, and in Part 3 it could be a group of villains similar to the Ten Commandments; they might even have the same narrative structure: fragments of the power of the villain(commandments/fragments of chaos), But instead of being people with fragments like the four evils and the 10 commandments And to avoid repeating this a third time: they could be living fragments of chaos l, a group of beings as strong as or stronger than Cath (before posses lancelot).

 

[Zezu1995]

what are the chances of the other graces making a come back? would be nice if they had new users

 

[Rey151203]

what are the chances of the other graces making a come back? would be nice if they had new users

It is officially confirmed that the archangels will be revived by the power of their graces, So the blessings continue with them.

 

[Covers]

The One Ultimate Mael with all 3 graces would be a nice asspull power up to stall Lancelot.

 

[Yakkun]

The One Ultimate Mael with all 3 graces would be a nice asspull power up to stall Lancelot.

All three powers combined make the chapter a beach episode if you really think about it

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Chaos acting like Lucius Zogratis: killing the person who questioned him and revealing himself(Arthur/Julius for chaos/lucius) That would be funny lol



●If your theory is true, then there must be two timelines: the original timeline and the new timeline.It's not linear; the 5kohg's time travel created the new timeline: where these events(End of races, influence of chaos), will not occur and Arthur will do something that ends up preventing him from being influenced by chaos, I don't know if he would then summon the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past to alter the future; he probably knows what happens, besides the price for defying Fate It must have actually been Cath Palug itself or Arthur from the future, uninfluenced by Chaos, Or someone else from the future. So, a war between timelines? That would be interesting, lol, the main villain be the original chaos.

●We have information from a Part 3 and a Part 4, so Chaos would be the villain in Part 4, and in Part 3 it could be a group of villains similar to the Ten Commandments; they might even have the same narrative structure: fragments of the power of the villain(commandments/fragments of chaos), But instead of being people with fragments like the four evils and the 10 commandments And to avoid repeating this a third time: they could be living fragments of chaos l, a group of beings as strong as or stronger than Cath (before posses lancelot).

True, I think there are two timelines. The timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from is the dark timeline where Tristan died. Someone used the power of Chaos to warp reality and create this new timeline, where non-humans and even the Seven Deadly Sins are just fairy tales, and the people involved treat the subject as "taboo." I bet Tristan managed to break this taboo because of his dual Light and Darkness nature as a Nephilim, and that's why he's dead.

As for who summoned the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past, that is still a mystery. However, I think it's either Cath or someone involved with Cath, because they were summoned to him. Whatever the case, this might be the consequences Guinevere spoke about regarding what Cath will suffer in the future for defying fate using her ability.

Because the four timelines she spoke about to Lancelot existed before Cath used her ability to defy fate. Therefore, this dark timeline might be a consequence of Cath changing the future and so the Knights of the Holy Grail being summoned to the past might simply be fate trying to correct itself.

As for a Part 4, I personally don't think there will be one. The 23-year-old Lancelot Guinevere spoke about might just be a flash-forward in the finale. Just like the Seven Deadly Sins finale showed us Tristan as a child, this might be a similar case where we see the Four Knights of the Apocalypse working for Arthur as Knights of Camelot in an "everybody is happy" kind of ending.

 

[Rey151203]

True, I think there are two timelines. The timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from is the dark timeline where Tristan died. Someone used the power of Chaos to warp reality and create this new timeline, where non-humans and even the Seven Deadly Sins are just fairy tales, and the people involved treat the subject as "taboo." I bet Tristan managed to break this taboo because of his dual Light and Darkness nature as a Nephilim, and that's why he's dead.

As for who summoned the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past, that is still a mystery. However, I think it's either Cath or someone involved with Cath, because they were summoned to him. Whatever the case, this might be the consequences Guinevere spoke about regarding what Cath will suffer in the future for defying fate using her ability.

Because the four timelines she spoke about to Lancelot existed before Cath used her ability to defy fate. Therefore, this dark timeline might be a consequence of Cath changing the future and so the Knights of the Holy Grail being summoned to the past might simply be fate trying to correct itself.

As for a Part 4, I personally don't think there will be one. The 23-year-old Lancelot Guinevere spoke about might just be a flash-forward in the finale. Just like the Seven Deadly Sins finale showed us Tristan as a child, this might be a similar case where we see the Four Knights of the Apocalypse working for Arthur as Knights of Camelot in an "everybody is happy" kind of ending.

Perhaps, it's possible, if so it would make part 3 the longest in the manga.

 

[Zehahaha]

Wow so two coming chapters that deal with Lance destroying the world. Again.

Gee, I wonder what's going to happen with the demon world. Or the celestial realm. Or the realm of the Sacred Tree. This is gonna be sooooOOooOoo excitiiiing

Explains what the 4KOA’s children meant by no other races existing in their timeline.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Interesting post I found on reddit , who do you think this is ?

 

[Killerbee12]

The One Ultimate Mael with all 3 graces would be a nice asspull power up to stall Lancelot.

Just the one mael should b enough, the other graces are pointless.

 

[Yakkun]

Interesting post I found on reddit , who do you think this is ?

Ah. This. A rather old theory actually, IIRC first brought up as a possible Merlin transformation to keep tabs on the events in Liones by @Rey151203 . We know now that Merlin had a different preferred appearance so this is most likely not it. There is always the chance of it being some random grandma although with how exact the look is and how it frequents over multiple events that now seems rather unlikely.

I would not be surprised if this was someone related to whatever villain comes up after Lancelot and Cath, perhaps its Morgana or someone else who could be in league with Chaos or something along those lines.

EDIT: What makes the idea of this being a future villain or related to them so interesting is that this character appears even before 4KotA even began so there is already established history even if it could be obscured from the reader and the somewhat baffling fact that this person even appears in the vision Guinevere had which didn't come to pass the way she thought it would.

 

[Mighty Escanor]

The shift of focus might mean the training of KotA or forging of their gears is gonna happen offscreen. My last chance to hope for a design change in Gawain's Rhitta!

In the second depiction of the KotA in chapter 5 iirc, the knight of famine wields a badass two handed great sword. I actually looked forward to see a weapon like that in the series. Gawain ended up using Rhitta as her sword, and of course it's so heavy. But the design is meh compared to that cool design in chapter 5.

Even if Rhitta is gonna be her ultimate ST, I still hope for a redesign. The current sword is suitable for Escanor's powers not Gawain's. So I hope there is a change to it's form as an excuse for new abilities and a reason for a change of appearance.

 

[Vortigern]

The Lady of the Lake is surprisingly nonchalant about this whole situation. Her goal was to escape the lake she was trapped in so you'd think the prospect of the outside world being destroyed would concern her more, since if that comes to pass she will have nowhere to go until she's eventually devoured by Cath. Did Nakaba decide to reduce her to nothing more than a convenient power source or is she planning something while maintaining a poker face? Anyway, if Camelot really has been fully wiped out already, which happened almost entirely off-screen, then it's a weirdly anticlimactic ending to such a major location. It seems like a huge missed opportunity to not show the destruction of Cath's castle and throne to symbolize the end of his reign over the land. All we got was Jericho's house and some floating rocks, in other words a whole lot of nothing. Don't expect anything more from his other targets either.

On that note, Lancelot going to the Demon Realm is a pretty random development. Something like this could have worked really well if instead of Lancelot it had been Percival who turned evil given that the latter is considered a hero among the demons. What would their reaction be when their celebrated savior suddenly returns to lay waste to their homes? Lancelot has no connection to the Demon Realm so him going there comes across as filler without any substance. The Fairy Realm would have worked much better, especially if Lancelot ended up encountering Sixtus who really looks up to him. Lancelot could have also clashed with the Sacred Tree to directly compare his power to one of the deities that should in theory be on par with the DK who keeps being brought up. Also, this whole thing about opening portals to the other realms seems iffy to me. Worreldane had to enter the Fairy Realm within Mertyl's shadow in order to be allowed in. She could have saved herself some trouble by simply having Cath teleport her inside. Same thing with Mortlach's team invading the Demon Realm and Turret&Rothes capturing beasts from Purgatory. It didn't seem like traveling between the realms was this easy until it became convenient for the plot.

I assume there has to be something more going on here though, since if Nakaba merely needed an excuse to keep Lancelot busy while his allies are getting ready then it would have been easier to have him continue to wreak havoc in Camelot. Is Lancelot destroying the Demon Realm meant to drive the demons to Britannia, perhaps because Nakaba wants all the races to be involved in whatever the next big conflict is going to be? Or is Lancelot killing some demons meant to set up a conflict between him and Tristan and/or Percival in the future? What if this is all just leading to Lancelot's fall from grace in the sense that his action right now will make it difficult for anyone to trust him in the future? The third option already looks somewhat shaky given that the real Lancelot is being treated as a separate entity within Chaos-Lancelot. This gives Nakaba a way to avoid putting all the blame on Lance, similar to what happened with Hendrickson due to how his evil deeds were the fault of Fraudrin's corruption. For this reason I highly doubt Lancelot is actually going to end up doing anything that's too extreme to forgive. The only character that might die by his hand is Ban and that's because it's very easy to whitewash that due to Ban already being on death's door after Cath's spell.

Another thing I'm curious about is how much of what's currently happening is going to factor into the next villains' plan. In NnT the defeat of Hendrickson and his holy knights led directly to the Ten Commandments being released from their seal through Fraudrin's involvement, so I sort of expect this Cath and Lancelot business to be part of something bigger as well. Maybe this is how upcoming villains gain access to Cath's portion of Chaos and/or the LotL's magic reserves? Or it could be that the appearance of the Grail Knights was engineered by someone from the future with the goal of changing the past. Perhaps Lancelot will target Behemoth and that will release the life spirits contained within it to either be utilized in bringing to life some other beast or to draw the attention of their leader. Speaking of, we still don't know why or how the gate to Camelot appeared on Behemoth's back. It happened a few months before the KotA showed up to look for it, which means it was already there before Bartra had his prophecy of the KotA. Is it just a coincidence that it was placed in a location that only a life spirit could reach or was it the work of someone who knew that Percival was one of the KotA before anyone else? Merlin already appeared to have some idea of Gawain's important role as far back as 18 years ago so it could be her doing, but the timing and the fact that she didn't do anything to point the heroes in the right direction might suggest otherwise.

Honestly, if this manga wasn't cursed by being a generic combat shounen and had a few more mature themes, no-one would forgive Lancelot for this after it is all over. Not really. Especially not his teammates and friends. Tolerance? Yeah, fine. That is what the Round Table as the center piece of Camelot always was for - a place where all knights of the Round Table could speak on equal terms with their peers and superiors and their king without having to fear for anything. A small chamber of true equality, where every voice was allowed to be heard and considered.

But that's it. That's all Lancelot should really get in the future. The grateful tolerance of the Round Table. Beyond that he deserves alienation for all the shit his decision has caused so far and will cause. Realistically there is no coming back from this even if he were to singlehandedly strangle Cath out of existence.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Given Nakaba's track record I'd be very surprised if Lancelot's stint as a bad guy results in him doing anything so severe that the rest of the cast would struggle to forgive him for it, barring maybe one or two characters whose grudge only exists to serve a dramatic purpose similar to Gilthunder being angry at Hendrickson. There's a reason why Lancelot has so far only been killing established enemies and destroying the kingdom all the good guys wanted to see destroyed to begin with. In theory this attack on the Demon Realm could change things, but I bet it's either going to result in few if any casualties or potentially in an apparent tragedy that gets undone later through timeline shenanigans or life spirit hax.

soo camelot and all its starry sky, moons etc are gone nothing but floating rocks now. Now demon realm . hmmmmmmm i smell indura zeldris we got a hint at it with chandler and cusack back when they were fighting arthur.

Camelot's stars and moons were always mere illusions. Recall that the kingdom was constructed out of literal chunks of Britannia that were teleported away, which is not enough matter to create even a country the size of Britannia, let alone entire moons and stars. If you can make fake people that behave like real ones then it should be pretty easy to conjure up a fake sky.

Thinking Jericho actually survived when it was clear that she died and was ok with accepting her death is one thing but thinking Merlin saved her is another. Sure we saw her save Ban from getting killed by Caths time magic so she isn’t heartless. But why y’all place so much faith in Merlin to save a character she’s had little to no interaction with is beyond me

I wouldn't say it was clear that Jericho died given that the "camera" conveniently cut away before we saw her get hit. If anything that's exactly the kind of trick that is usually done to create fake-out death scenes. For me Jericho accepting her death actually makes the whole thing look more suspicious considering how it mirrors what happened to her before at the lake. When the Lady of the Lake pulled her out of the water one last time she had already resigned herself to her fate, only for Lancelot to save her anyway. It would make perfect sense for the fake-Lancelot created based on that memory to do the same thing as well, especially when the whole death scene happened in the same chapter in which Nakaba randomly revealed Shining Road's weakness out of nowhere. I doubt Merlin had anything to do with it though.

There is no way Nakaba is getting rid of Chaos; he will have to introduce a bigger threat which doesn't exist .

Additionally, this story is bound to have a Part 3 because of Guinevere’s vision, where she mentioned a period when Lancelot kisses her at age 19.

So, I think what will happen is that Cath will eat Arthur whole, absorb the full power of Chaos, and evolve into a new final form.

Then, the Four Knights of the Apocalypse will fight and destroy him. However, with Cath gone, Chaos will completely take over Arthur from within.

Chaos will then recreate the world anew. This would fulfill the 4KOTA prophecy: by freeing it, they indirectly destroy the world by unleashing the very entity that will recreate it.

After all, Chaos is the only one capable of recreating the world anew, and Galahad did say that the world before and after this incident would be completely different.

If Cath being gone would cause Chaos to possess Arthur then it would have already happened before Cath even revealed his true nature. All that happened at the time was Arthur briefly mistaking Meliodas for an enemy before calming down and getting things under control. More importantly, if Chaos itself was corrupting Arthur like than then this whole plot point of Cath corrupting him would be completely redundant and we would loop back to repeating that same situation right after finally resolving it. I don't think Chaos makes much sense as a villain to begin with considering how it was portrayed as a neutral if not a benevolent entity before, not to mention how convoluted its plan would have to be for everything until now to be part of it.

Personally I'm skeptical that Chaos is ever going to return or even necessarily appear directly at all. To me that line about how humans are the clan closest to Chaos seemed like a way to explore the nature of Chaos without ever actually bringing it back, because all the good and evil things that it could think to do can already manifest through humans in a more natural way. Rather than one entity being simultaneously perfectly good and perfectly evil, which sounds like it would be difficult to depict without it devolving into nonsensical randomness or instant mood swings, there will instead be multiple characters embodying these traits separately. Arthur is the obvious choice for the role of the ultimate good given his saintlike behavior, so perhaps Morgan or Mordred could take on the role of the ultimate evil in the future. There is similar duality between Percival's hope and Diodra's despair as well.

Ah yes, now we have 9 names from the Round Table in the manga.

Arthur
Percival
Lancelot
Tristan
Gawain
bors
Gareth
Kay
galahad

Based on Rising Impact, we will have 25 characters with names of Knights of the Round Table.

There aren't going to be 25 of them. If we're at 9 members 254 chapters into the manga then I'm sure you can work out roughly how long it would take for Nakaba to properly introduce and flesh out another 14. A weekly manga with 17 pages per issue is not the right medium for groups that large to begin with, unless you either have hundreds of chapters to dedicate to these characters or you barely give them any attention like what happened to the Sternritter in Bleach. If there are going to be 4 parts in total then we're roughly halfway through the story by now, which means the only available option is the second one.

What Nakaba is actually going to do is limit the size of the group to Arthur + 12 others like in some versions of the legends. That cuts down the number of new characters required to only 4 so the problem basically solves itself right then and there. This comes with the added benefit that he can dedicate all that saved time on the villains who will oppose the Round Table. Don't forget that a group of 25 requires more enemies to fight than a group of 13 too so they would get shafted due to time/page constraints as well. Sometimes less really is more.

Do you guys think Balin will receive a big role in the upcoming fight and maybe even die tragically? In the legends he is a tragic character but also someone who could impact Lancelot significantly if it goes somewhat like in his legend. Not outright slaying the Lady of the Lake since that seems impossible but his magic being rather passive in nature paired with his naturally high physical strength, skill and dursbility could be a bad match for Lancelot so he probably wouldn't just get instantly folded.

Balin's not gonna die here. He's not established enough of a character yet for his death to much impact on the audience so it would fall flat, especially when his characterization is still lacking in terms of content that would make the readers care about him. This is quite clear when you compare him to the other characters who were either introduced in the same arc as him or at least got their first major role in it, i.e. Gareth, Iseult and Diodra. They all had interesting and compelling reasons for why they had ended up in Annwfyn that made them at least somewhat sympathetic, while Balin was there simply because he was looking for someone strong to impress him. He needs to be fleshed out much further before any hypothetical death scene.

He will likely prove useful in the battle though. I doubt he'd be able to 1v1 Chaos-Lancelot or anything, but his magic should allow him to tank Shining Roads for other people by acting as a decoy. That would simultaneously make him look impressive while allowing him to experience first-hand just how strong Lancelot is, which ties into his earlier skepticism.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

If Cath being gone would cause Chaos to possess Arthur then it would have already happened before Cath even revealed his true nature. All that happened at the time was Arthur briefly mistaking Meliodas for an enemy before calming down and getting things under control. More importantly, if Chaos itself was corrupting Arthur like than then this whole plot point of Cath corrupting him would be completely redundant and we would loop back to repeating that same situation right after finally resolving it. I don't think Chaos makes much sense as a villain to begin with considering how it was portrayed as a neutral if not a benevolent entity before, not to mention how convoluted its plan would have to be for everything until now to be part of it.

Personally I'm skeptical that Chaos is ever going to return or even necessarily appear directly at all. To me that line about how humans are the clan closest to Chaos seemed like a way to explore the nature of Chaos without ever actually bringing it back, because all the good and evil things that it could think to do can already manifest through humans in a more natural way. Rather than one entity being simultaneously perfectly good and perfectly evil, which sounds like it would be difficult to depict without it devolving into nonsensical randomness or instant mood swings, there will instead be multiple characters embodying these traits separately. Arthur is the obvious choice for the role of the ultimate good given his saintlike behavior, so perhaps Morgan or Mordred could take on the role of the ultimate evil in the future. There is similar duality between Percival's hope and Diodra's despair as well.

I previously stated that if Cath eats Arthur whole then Arthur will lose all his power to control Chaos because Arthur's blood can suppress Chaos as Merlin stated but if Cath eats him , he'll most likely lose his power because Cath stated that he seeks to devour Arthur's power to have full control over the power of Chaos.

Spoiler: Cath wants to eat Arthur's power.

 

[Covers]

Just the one mael should b enough, the other graces are pointless.

Nope not even close.

The One Escanor was only matching Demon King in physical stats he has nowhere near the power to kill DK as shown when it took 7DS Nemesis and Chaos Lancelot is far above that.

The One Mael would > The One Escanor, but not to the point he can do anything to Chaos Lancelot that is why I said add the other 3 graces.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 3:09 AM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 2:30 AM ---

Maybe Temu Escanor vs Nerfed Lancelot was a preview of incoming Lancelot vs Mael.

 

[Zezu1995]

tbh their might not even be "the one mael" that might just be for escanor cuz hes human... mael didnt show any physical changes with his grace