Chapter Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Chapter 258 Spoilers & Discussion

[tdtd1234]

When Cath saw them , he said : Oh , it's you...

This implies that he knew of their coming but this doesn't imply that he knew their identities or that they're from the future.

The Idiots simply revealed who they were before him , Cath didn't know who they were but he certainly took advantage of the situation.

To me that reads like he noticed they know him and made some vague comments to fish for information - like a phone scammer going "it's me".

 

[Mighty Escanor]

Hmm, one of the things that makes sequels to stories awful is when rather than build on what happened previously they simply undo everything. When this manga started it sort didn't seem to fall into that trap. But with pantscelot now it really seems like the story is simply moving to undo every victory the gang had in NNT. I suppose deathpierce would be thriller about this?

And zeldris now dies gleefully at pantscelot's hands and tells him to save himself? Why would pantscelot want to live after this? He already murdered a number of people at camelot, including jericho. Thanks to zeldris demonkind's genocide was narrowly avoided and that if he doesn't pursue them to the abyss. Next he is most likely heading for the goddess realm where his goal will be the same, murder everyone. Even if the same scenario repeats the best case scenario appears to be a permanent separation of all races. On top of that pantscelot appears to be on collision course with the prediction about him murdering ban.

This is silly. This is too far. Saving his waifu does not justify this much indiscriminate murder. Like, I can buy the development itself but it's just nonsense that there's any redemption beyond it. Why would pantscelot want to live after ruining everyone's lives? Why would gwen want to be with someone with that much innocent blood in his hands? Pantscelot just doesn't come out of this being who he was. There's also the alternative that due to time travel shenanigans other races just left britania for a couple decades to preserve the timeline but that's not a good development. Pantscelot destroying britania isn't a good development. What is this manga?

The manga you are reading is so bad. I wonder what's the name of it and why you are posting some reactions to that manga in this forum which is about 4KotA chapters!!

What kind of redemption dude? Lancelot is literally resisting the huge push Cath imposed on him. Zeldoris clearly saw it and acknowledged it. Lancelot himself told Zel that his resistance has reached its limit. Of course it's horrible, but it's not Lancelot's own will. From the start, he asked his friends to stop him. He begged Zel to kill him. He asked Zel to run away. He tried so hard not to harm the DR residents.

Lancelot will change after this for sure. Like how Mael never became the person he was. But it doesn't mean they are completely responsible for what they did when their own will was suppressed by an external factor, Cath in Lancelot's case.

Lancelot is the only one to treat Arthur and Merlin as criminals, and he is now experiencing an even worse nightmare. That's a great lesson here from the manga. A hasty judgment is easy, but it's not necessarily correct. And you have fallen victim to it yourself.

Lancelot is not OK with letting his loved one be killed, but others have proven to be too powerless to even help him. When he is saved from this madness, I hope he goes to Arthur and Merlin apologizing for his naivety and stupidity.

For every disaster happening after the awakening of Chaos, Cath is clearly the culprit, and his manipulations and schemes are evident in the manga. Arthur, Merlin, and Lancelot are other victims of his malice. They are not innocents, that's for sure. But there is no reason to develop a personal grudge against them when they were tricked, manipulated, and controlled by Cath.

Like @Capalot98 said, 4KotA fans refuse to read 4KotA and their reactions are completely irrelevant!!

Right now, the one who has tried to oppose Chaos more than anyone else in the story universe is Lancelot himself. It's not his fault that other can't help him at all. His only flaw is his inability to let Guin die in front of him. And that's identical to what Mel, Ban, and Zel went through. They can understand him because they know the pain. Lancelot should take responsibility for his own decision, but not for the crimes directly committed by Cath. His redemption can happen, and he is still one of the KotA, the only people in NnT/MnYK world who can stop Cath.

So read the actual manga before writing an irrelevant analysis that ignores the most obvious information existing within manga pages!

 

[Rey151203]

See @Rey151203? There is no "power-level" there!! As @FKS mentioned, you need the actual Power of the DK and SD to seal Chaos, and that was totally expected, given the nature of Chaos.

Not that this translation is reliable, but anyway, I don't believe the chaos will be sealed, It just seemed like explicit information that Nakaba really likes to share.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 8:49 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 8:45 PM ---

I was looking at the messages and I'll say it now:

guys, give up, you guys won't see Mael and the celestial kingdom in this arc.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

To me that reads like he noticed they know him and made some vague comments to fish for information - like a phone scammer going "it's me".

Could be, but it doesn't really matter either way. What matters is that Cath isn't able to summon people from the future.

I mean, if he had such power over time, why did he need Guinevere to begin with?

Time travel in the 7DS/4KOTA universe is a lot harder than people think because of the concept of 'Fate,' which only allows tiny changes.

Literal time travel isn't a tiny change; the only time travel we have seen so far was King and Diane traveling inside Gloxinia and Drole's bodies.

And even that was only allowed as they kept following the actions of the OG Gloxinia and Drole but when they made drastic changes , they were sent back.

 

[kkck]

The manga you are reading is so bad. I wonder what's the name of it and why you are posting some reactions to that manga in this forum which is about 4KotA chapters!!

What kind of redemption dude? Lancelot is literally resisting the huge push Cath imposed on him. Zeldoris clearly saw it and acknowledged it. Lancelot himself told Zel that his resistance has reached its limit. Of course it's horrible, but it's not Lancelot's own will. From the start, he asked his friends to stop him. He begged Zel to kill him. He asked Zel to run away. He tried so hard not to harm the DR residents.

Lancelot will change after this for sure. Like how Mael never become the person he was. But it doesn't mean they are completely responsible for what they did when their own will was suppressed by an external factor, Cath in this case.

Lancelot is the only one to treat Arthur and Merlin as criminals, and he is now experiencing an even worse nightmare. That's a great lesson here from the manga. A hasty judgment is easy, but it's not necessarily correct. And you have fallen victim to it yourself.

Lancelot is not OK with letting his loved one be killed, but others have proven to powerless to even help him. When he is saved from this madness, I hope he goes to Arthur and Merlin apologizing for his naivety and stupidity.

For every disaster happening after the awakening of Chaos, Cath is clearly the culprit, and his manipulations and schemes are evident in the manga. Arthur, Merlin, and Lancelot are other victims of his malice. They are not innocents, that's for sure. But there is no reason to develop a personal grudge against them when they were tricked, manipulated, and controlled by Cath.

Like @Capalot98 said, 4KotA fans refuse to read 4KotA and their reactions are completely irrelevant!!

Right now, the one who has tried to oppose Chaos more than anyone else in the story universe is Lancelot himself. It's not his fault that other can't help him at all. His only flaw is his inability to let Guin die in front of him. And that's identical to what Mel, Ban, and Zel went through. They can understand him because they know the pain. Lancelot should take responsibility for his own decision, but not for the crimes directly committed by Cath. His redemption can happen, and he is still one of the KotA, the only people in NnT/MnYK world who can stop Cath.

So read the actual manga before writing an irrelevant analysis that ignores the most obvious information existing within manga pages!

Pantcelot and mael are definitely not in similar situations. Mael had no choice in anything that happened to him, it was a revenge imposed on him by Gowther specifically to make him suffer (and bring the war to a halt for some time). Pantcelot is obviously not ok with this but here's the thing: fuck him. He knew what would happen if he accepted the deal. He knew that he would immediately set on to kill literally everyone. His hope here is basically that his friends end him before there's nothing left. What Pantcelot did is not forgivable. Maybe, if you squint, understandable, but not forgivable. He has killed however many people were left at camelot, he killed jericho, now zeldris. In what universe does it make any sense he has it in him to live with himself following this? Once he is saved he'd have to be an absolute psychopaths to find his existence tolerable or worth living. other characters in the story have done atrocious things but even this was in a war which they were manipulated into fighting. What lancelot is doing is self inflicted, avoidable and just plain old murder.

 

[Rey151203]

because of the concept of 'Fate,' which only allows tiny changes.

This theory of destiny is interesting, but about Fate itself:
This is something I see being destroyed at the end of the work, a predetermined fate that cannot be changed without serious consequences? it seems quite evil.

But at the same time, I don't trust things like paradoxes and loops; after all, the multiverse is still a highly plausible possibility.

 

[Mighty Escanor]

I also wanna ask those who expect a Mael with the Grace, what's the evidence you have to be so sure Sunshine has come back to Mael?

The Grace left Mael after his defection. He later refused to take it back because he deemed himself unworthy of it. After Escanor's demise, there isn't any information or the faintest of hints that the Grace went back to Mael.

In the cursed by Light movie, we didn't see Mael use any Sunshine related technique.

The only official data about the future of this angel is provided by the early sketches of the sequel released with the final chapter of NnT. In which Mael was reaching out to someone and talking to them. I remember the translation was like this: So you are the new host of Sunshine.

And after 258 chapters of sequel, Mael only appeared in a side story with no actual on screen fight. Then how people are so sure about their headcanons??

Mael might be in possession of the grace or not. Whereabouts of the graces is the ultimate unknown at this point. Specially after SD's defeat in the movie. So how? How can people be so ignorant of all these details and make claims as if it's the officially established fact?? I'm so curious to know the source of this arrogance. Shit!

 

[Rey151203]

This theory of destiny is interesting, but about Fate itself:
This is something I see being destroyed at the end of the work, a predetermined fate that cannot be changed without serious consequences? it seems quite evil.

But at the same time, I don't trust things like paradoxes and loops; after all, the multiverse is still a highly plausible possibility.

Edit*

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Why do you act as if it's linear? Timelines exist.

This is something I see being destroyed at the end of the work, a predetermined fate that cannot be changed without serious consequences? it seems quite evil.

Do alternative timelines exist? And if so, where?

I do think the timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from is different from the one Guinevere told Lancelot about before she was kidnapped, but that's exactly the point.

Fate pulled the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past to fix itself because Cath ruined the timeline by using Guinevere's power with no regard for the consequences.

Ultimately, the timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from will be changed to align with what Guinevere always foresaw , in other words "Fate".

You could say Guinevere sees "Fate", rather than multiple futures like Yhwach from Bleach.

However, I do believe that if Chaos is the final villain, the very concept of "Fate" might have to be destroyed to defeat it.

 

[Rey151203]

I also wanna ask those who expect a Mael with the Grace, what's the evidence you have to be so sure Sunshine has come back to Mael?

The Grace left Mael after his defection. He later refused to take it back because he deemed himself unworthy of it. After Escanor's demise, there isn't any information or the faintest of hints that the Grace went back to Mael.

In the cursed by Light movie, we didn't see Mael use any Sunshine related technique.

The only official data about the future of this angel is provided by the early sketches of the sequel released with the final chapter of NnT. In which Mael was reaching out to someone and talking to them. I remember the translation was like this: So you are the new host of Sunshine.

And after 258 chapters of sequel, Mael only appeared in a side story with no actual on screen fight. Then how people are so sure about their headcanons??

Mael might be in possession of the grace or not. Whereabouts of the graces is the ultimate unknown at this point. Specially after SD's defeat in the movie. So how? How can people be so ignorant of all these details and make claims as if it's the officially established fact?? I'm so curious to know the source of this arrogance. Shit!

What bothers me is people mentioning Mael as if he's going to appear in this arc; like, the Celestial Realm isn't even mentioned by Cath, and now that Lancelot has been consumed by Malice, he'll surely go to places like the Fairy Realm or Britannia.

My impression is that Nakaba is saving the Celestial Kingdom for another arc. I even considered that they might train the Four Knights, but it was the Four Evils instead.


"Ah but the races will be eliminated in future" I don't trust these futures until I see them, especially which can change.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 9:24 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 9:22 PM ---

Do alternative timelines exist? And if so, where?

I do think the timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from is different from the one Guinevere told Lancelot about before she was kidnapped, but that's exactly the point.

Fate pulled the Knights of the Holy Grail to the past to fix itself because Cath ruined the timeline by using Guinevere's power with no regard for the consequences.

Ultimately, the timeline the Knights of the Holy Grail came from will be changed to align with what Guinevere always foresaw , in other words "Fate".

You could say Guinevere sees "Fate", rather than multiple futures like Yhwach from Bleach.

they exist, Nakaba talks about timelines.


Yes, I talked about this in a post on X, that there are 2 timelines and we will have the creation of a third.

But look at the new version of your reply; I edited it.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Lancelot ignoring the Celestial Realm doesn't make sense. Cath didn't mention it, yes, but he didn't mention the Demon Realm either.

However, it's quite possible that Lancelot won't go there. It would be a bit strange to introduce the Celestial Realm entirely from the POV of Lancelot who is actively trying to destroy it, though I wouldn't put it past Nakaba, to be honest.

Honestly I'm more hyped for Lancelot vs Behemoth but it would be nice to see Mael at high noon vs Lancelot.

 

[Rey151203]

This is something I see being destroyed at the end of the work, a predetermined fate that cannot be changed without serious consequences? it seems quite evil

He seems good now because the villain is the one interfering in Fate, but what happens when one of the heroes changes destiny? What would the consequences be? Will they accept it or fight back?

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 9:36 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 9:36 PM ---

However, it's quite possible that Lancelot won't go there. It would be a bit strange to introduce the Celestial Realm entirely from the POV of Lancelot who is actively trying to destroy it, though I wouldn't put it past Nakaba, to be honest.

The celestial kingdom hasn't even been developed yet, That's why this realm won't appear.

 

[Mighty Escanor]

Pantcelot and mael are definitely not in similar situations. Mael had no choice in anything that happened to him, it was a revenge imposed on him by Gowther specifically to make him suffer (and bring the war to a halt for some time). Pantcelot is obviously not ok with this but here's the thing: fuck him. He knew what would happen if he accepted the deal. He knew that he would immediately set on to kill literally everyone. His hope here is basically that his friends end him before there's nothing left. What Pantcelot did is not forgivable. Maybe, if you squint, understandable, but not forgivable. He has killed however many people were left at camelot, he killed jericho, now zeldris. In what universe does it make any sense he has it in him to live with himself following this? Once he is saved he'd have to be an absolute psychopaths to find his existence tolerable or worth living. other characters in the story have done atrocious things but even this was in a war which they were manipulated into fighting. What lancelot is doing is self inflicted, avoidable and just plain old murder.

That's absolutely unforgivable. Lancelot is guilty of making a horrible decision that resulted in a huge tragedy. But the question is, how much of the burden is on him?

Jeri had the opportunity to leave Cathmelot way before this event. She decided to throw away the ticket for her salvation, because she was too obsessed with her sexual fantasies with a fake Lancelot. That twisted woman chose the path that led to her end. In happened despite Lancelot's countless attempts at saving her.

The same goes for the rest of citizens of the fake realm. They decided to remain in a land that was built on others miseries, serving a racist Arthur they had no idea of his identity.

If those people could understand the big lie called Camelot, and see how its existence is destroying the actual human realm, they should be leaving it asap. Like how Bors decided to leave it. How Tristan's party turned their back on the illusion. Like how Pelle chose not to be deceived by it for a long time.

Lancelot isn't responsible for the wrongdoing of Jeri and others. Jeri deserved that end. Cath deserves to be punished. And the same goes for Lancelot, Merlin, and Arthur. But it's not all or nothing. Jeri isn't innocent. Lance isn't the ultimate malice. Treating Lancelot as if he hasn't done anything wrong is stupid. But putting all the responsibility on him isn't the correct approach as well.

The cycle of grudge and violence doesn't help anyone but Cath. That's the point of this plot. Lancelot was the only one who couldn't forgive Arthur and Merlin. Now he is the one who needs forgiveness even more than those two. The precarious one was the one who refused to understand how Cath ruined their plan which was originally a good one. This back and forth development isn't that different from Mael's case. He was so arrogant that he refused to reconsider his judgement. That the demon girl he wanted to kill might be uninvolved with DK and his army's crimes. He paid the price for his judgement in a suitable way that humbled him and traumatized him as he deserved.

When the self righteous Lancelot slashed the throat of Mortlach, I was the only one here who find it a dangerous behavior. Murdering a wounded foe when he wasn't able to defend himself was Lancelot's own decision. A savage behavior that subtly hinted to the possibility of him falling to the dark side so easily. But everyone was so focused on nasty pedo jokes they refused to see the actual darkness in his soul.

So no, I never thought of Lancelot as a saint who should be praised for his deeds. But I also refuse to ignore Cath Palug's crimes and only blame Arthur, Merlin, or Lancelot for everything that's happening rn.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

He seems good now because the villain is the one interfering in Fate, but what happens when one of the heroes changes destiny? What would the consequences be? Will they accept it or fight back?

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 9:36 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 9:36 PM ---

The celestial kingdom hasn't even been developed yet, That's why this realm won't appear.

Guinevere is the only one who sees "Fate" and she can interfere with it , so I think at the end she will use her powers to stop this moment from happening

It is quite possible that Guinevere never had Galahad in her future, as she only mentioned four specific points in time: when Lancelot was 16, 18, 19, and 23 years old.

The heartbreaking moment that made her cry during their final seconds together is implied to have occurred when Lancelot was 23.

This heavily suggests that she never had Galahad in that timeline, especially since Galahad is 18—making him seven years younger than Percival's children.

Therefore, Lancelot would have needed to marry at 25 or 26 to have Galahad with Guinevere, rather than at 23

 

[Mighty Escanor]

What bothers me is people mentioning Mael as if he's going to appear in this arc; like, the Celestial Realm isn't even mentioned by Cath, and now that Lancelot has been consumed by Malice, he'll surely go to places like the Fairy Realm or Britannia.

My impression is that Nakaba is saving the Celestial Kingdom for another arc. I even considered that they might train the Four Knights, but it was the Four Evils instead.


"Ah but the races will be eliminated in future" I don't trust these futures until I see them, especially which can change.

I used to believe Nakaba have great plans for GC in the sequel. Nanashi's wings, and Nakaba's answer about SD at the end of NnT, that he has plans for her in the future. Cursed by Light ruined most of it.

4KotA began with a mention of the sky people and a huge shadow among the clouds. When the party entered the echo gorge, we saw Dolores praying to a depiction of an angel that was somehow reminiscent of Ludo. I was like OK, Nakaba is gonna do something about them soon. And now after 258 chapters, we are still waiting for them ...

Now, I'm not sure if Nakaba even remembers them at all. That's too disappointing. Several of characters I like are either from GC (Mael, Elizabeth, Nanashi) or have ties to it (ESCANOR, GAWAIN, the druid Zaratras, and wishfully the true identity of Rhitta). I still hope for GR related arcs, but my frustration after years of waiting for it is immense!

 

[kkck]

I suppose it'd be pretty interesting if Gwen meets the knights of the grail and has no clue whatsoever about their identity. But then, one of the knights already recognized her as his mother.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

I suppose it'd be pretty interesting if Gwen meets the knights of the grail and has no clue whatsoever about their identity. But then, one of the knights already recognized her as his mother.

Galahad recognizing her doesn't mean she does him since he'd be from an alternate timeline and what Guinevere saw was the original timeline before Cath started altering it.

 

[Zezu1995]

it would be nice for them to visit the celestrial realm its one of the few places we havnt really seen fully yet

 

[Redpercy]

Pantcelot and mael are definitely not in similar situations. Mael had no choice in anything that happened to him, it was a revenge imposed on him by Gowther specifically to make him suffer (and bring the war to a halt for some time).

It’s funny how you try to ignore just how atrocious Mael’s actions were, even before he became Estarossa, simply to push your own agenda and fuel your hatred.

If you’re going to hold Lancelot accountable for the actions of "Chaos Lancelot" even though he was forced into that state as a consequence of his own choices, then I don’t see how you can absolve Mael of responsibility for his time as Estarossa, which was also the direct result of Mael’s own actions and decisions.

Mael wasn’t just some random victim chosen by Gowther.
He was the biggest killer of the first Holy War, earning the title "Angel of Death", He slaughtered innocent demon civilians who were begging and weeping before him, solely because of their race, one of this group included Glariza, Gowther’s beloved, and that why he chose him.
The only reason the 1st holy war Mael didn’t wipe out the entire demon race is that he simply wasn’t powerful enough to do so.



And what has Lancelot actually done so far, by comparison?
In Camelot? He evacuated all the inhabitants beforehand, the only ones left were a band of mercenary knights, with whom they was at war, and Jericho, who chose for herself to die alongside Fakecelot.
In the Demon Realm? He barely killed a few demons before the Induras and Zeldris intervened.

His total kill count so far consists of : a small band of mercenaries, Jericho (who chose her own fate), two Indura, Zeldris, and a few of random demons.

Mael used to kill more than that in a single day during the Holy War.

 

[Rey151203]

I used to believe Nakaba have great plans for GC in the sequel. Nanashi's wings, and Nakaba's answer about SD at the end of NnT, that he has plans for her in the future. Cursed by Light ruined most of it.

4KotA began with a mention of the sky people and a huge shadow among the clouds. When the party entered the echo gorge, we saw Dolores praying to a depiction of an angel that was somehow reminiscent of Ludo. I was like OK, Nakaba is gonna do something about them soon. And now after 258 chapters, we are still waiting for them ...

Now, I'm not sure if Nakaba even remembers them at all. That's too disappointing. Several of characters I like are either from GC (Mael, Elizabeth, Nanashi) or have ties to it (ESCANOR, GAWAIN, the druid Zaratras, and wishfully the true identity of Rhitta). I still hope for GR related arcs, but my frustration after years of waiting for it is immense!

I still think we will get a Celestial Realm arc, but not with Lancelot of Chaos.