Chapter Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Chapter 258 Spoilers & Discussion

Is Zeldris dead?

  • Yes and for good. RIP!

  • Yes but he will be ressurected.

  • No. Gelda/Schwarz saved him.

  • Lancelot managed to keep him alive thanks to his AMAZING willpower.

  • He tanked that.

  • Something else.


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Mountain-Photo-165

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The difference between Mael and Lancelot is that Lancelot betrayed his allies , whereas Mael never truly betrayed anyone because the demons were his actual enemies.

In fact, the closest comparison to Lancelot would be Meliodas who betrayed his clan, not Mael.

Also, speaking of Mael, he never showed any Sunshine powers in the Cursed by Light movie.

Maybe he couldn't use it because it originally came from the Supreme Deity, or did he actually lose it after Escanor's death?
 

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Guinevere is the only one who sees "Fate" and she can interfere with it , so I think at the end she will use her powers to stop this moment from happening

It is quite possible that Guinevere never had Galahad in her future, as she only mentioned four specific points in time: when Lancelot was 16, 18, 19, and 23 years old.

The heartbreaking moment that made her cry during their final seconds together is implied to have occurred when Lancelot was 23.

This heavily suggests that she never had Galahad in that timeline, especially since Galahad is 18—making him seven years younger than Percival's children.

Therefore, Lancelot would have needed to marry at 25 or 26 to have Galahad with Guinevere, rather than at 23
Yes, she only saw the first timeline; Galahad would come from the second timeline, And we should already be on the third one with the Grail Knights in the past, and heading towards a fourth.

I believe guinevere will use her powers to tell to king Arthur, since despite telling Cath, it wasn't guinevere who suffered the consequences but cath yes, so it doesn't matter if someone knows the future if they don't do anything to change it.
However, Arthur could be the one to make a change, generating a consequence for him in the future, This could even be the origin of Mordred.
 

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I'm confused why Cath left Lancelot to protect Guinevere when she was already supposedly safe? Is the implication suppose to be that Lancelot going all out would have endangered her too? Cause the dialogue doesn't really read that way.

This is silly. This is too far. Saving his waifu does not justify this much indiscriminate murder. Like, I can buy the development itself but it's just nonsense that there's any redemption beyond it. Why would pantscelot want to live after ruining everyone's lives? Why would gwen want to be with someone with that much innocent blood in his hands? Pantscelot just doesn't come out of this being who he was. There's also the alternative that due to time travel shenanigans other races just left britania for a couple decades to preserve the timeline but that's not a good development. Pantscelot destroying britania isn't a good development. What is this manga?
Clearly it's suppose to show his "willingness" to sacrifice for love, parallelling Meliodas going "evil" to save Eli... You just gotta ignore that Meliodas was against a force he couldn't physically stop, whereas Lancelot just decided to give up to an opponent he completely outclass while surrounded by teammates who could have healed any damage Guinevere took and gotten her far away easily...

It's really funny that so far the only character to ever be given grief about his evil actions for more then a chapter has been Hendrickson...
 

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I'm confused why Cath left Lancelot to protect Guinevere when she was already supposedly safe? Is the implication suppose to be that Lancelot going all out would have endangered her too? Cause the dialogue doesn't really read that way.
Because Lancelot began powering up, his magic vortex went wild, rapidly increasing in strength and power.

So apparently , Guinevere seems unable to resist such an overwhelming torrent of magic—even while shielded by Chaos so Cath has to keep her away.

Lancelot needs the magic vortex to protect himself from Miasma , he can't turn it off.

But he also needed to power up to defeat Zeldris and he did.
 

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The difference between Mael and Lancelot is that Lancelot betrayed his allies , whereas Mael never truly betrayed anyone because the demons were his actual enemies.

In fact, the closest comparison to Lancelot would be Meliodas who betrayed his clan, not Mael.

Also, speaking of Mael, he never showed any Sunshine powers in the Cursed by Light movie.

Maybe he couldn't use it because it originally came from the Supreme Deity, or did he actually lose it after Escanor's death?
cuz merlin stole it. normally it shouldve went back to him after escanor died but merlin stole it with the kiss. its head canon but theres no other way for gawain to get sunshine without merlin stealing it.
 

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cuz merlin stole it. normally it shouldve went back to him after escanor died but merlin stole it with the kiss. its head canon but theres no other way for gawain to get sunshine without merlin stealing it.
Gawain doesn't have sunshine , she has her own magic called Dawn , probably because she's created by magic from Escanor's genes when he still had Sunshine so her magic seems similar to Escanor.
 

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if we being forreal mael grace is "sun" escanor was called sunshine. merlin has done these type of things before even with the gods curses. im pretty sure she took "sun" from escanor and gave it to her offspring
 

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All of the Archangels getting sealed away at the same time sounded a bit excessive so I'm glad it was actually just Ludociel. The fact that Nakaba is name-dropping him like this gives me the impression we'll be seeing more of him later on. As hostile as Schwarz and the other demons initially were towards Tristan I've always expected the goddesses to be even worse due to their seething hatred of the demons. Ludociel is the perfect fit to serve as the face of that sentiment during the eventual Goddess Realm arc.

I understand your point , you're saying the Behemoth is just a normal beast , he simply contains large amount of life spirits like any other being does.

But the problem is that Jiggly-Percival said that the life spirits are identity of the behemoth and even the wiki lists the behemoth as a life spirit.

He even functions like a life spirit , benefits or harms the demon realm , like Percy's hope and despair powers.



Chaos doesn't seem to care about other races that much , it seems like it simply created the demon king and left him to mind his on business like creating the demon realm.
Behemoth is clearly not an ordinary beast given its absurd size and strength easily surpassing that of Zeldris, that's why I speculated it could be a primordial Chaos monster akin to its namesake. It wouldn't have been created to benefit the demons but rather for some other purpose that the DK decided to take advantage of, much like how he used the Lady of the Lake, another unusual Chaos creation with an unclear purpose, to recover his magic reserves ahead of his final battle with the Sins.

In the pages I posted Bouncyval establishes that life spirits exist within Behemoth and in your pic he says they are behind it, which both refer to the beast being powered by said spirits just like all other life forms. At no point is it suggested that the monster itself is a spirit. That wouldn't even make sense given how we know that life spirits are invisible to non-spirits except for when Percival uses his magic to manifest them as green blobs, whereas Behemoth has a well-defined physical form. It's not that surprising for such a massive quantity of life spirits to have an effect on its surroundings, especially when the (still unexplained, I might add) presence of the portal was agitating them further. Think of it like how an intense fire produced by flame spirits radiates heat that can be felt from a distance. The wiki is entirely maintained by fans and is not an official source.

But shouldn't they be allies? It would be an interesting scene if Bartra delivered one last prophecy and, before dying, said, "The prophecy isn't over yet."
They are allies, hence why I said it would be unintentional. The idea is inspired by the legends where Mordred takes advantage of Lancelot's affair with Guinevere to start a civil war in Camelot, which essentially means that Lancelot's actions caused that war even though he didn't intend for it to happen. I'm skeptical about the Guinevere love triangle making an appearance in the manga at this point, but it wouldn't be too difficult for Lancelot make some other stupid mistake for her sake that then triggers a similar conflict. Same thing with something like Gawain overusing her powers during a difficult fight and scorching crops all over Britannia in the process, thus triggering a famine. I'm pretty much 100% certain that the KotA's disasters will end up mirroring the Sins' crimes in the sense that they'll mostly be misunderstandings, like how Meliodas was blamed for destroying Danafor even though the city had already fallen to demons by the time he wiped it off the map. He's technically guilty but not really.

As for Bartra, I feel like Nakaba would want to keep the twist a secret until later, but it would be possible for Bartra to for example have a prophetic dream that is so terrifying that he dies from shock before he can warn anyone about it. Well, I guess for narrative purposes there would have to be someone who overhears the warning but then neglects to tell anyone about it until things have already gone wrong.

Lancelot runs a gauntlet, that's obvious for sure. Next is probably the Archangels, the outcome'll stay the same with only a mild increase in diffuculty I guess. Ban might be final boss or the 3 KotA are, eithet works for maximum physical and emotional damage but I don't expect much deviation from the formula. The 3KotA will end it by exorcizing Chaos/Cath from Lancelot and then some sloppy, horribly cringe redemption moment or arc will come
I don't think that's obvious, in fact I don't believe it's going to happen at all. This Demon Realm segment is meant to establish how much of a threat Lancelot is by showing him attacking innocent civilians and defeating a strong combatant like Zeldris. There's nothing to be gained from doing the same thing again with the goddesses. Also don't forget that Nakaba has explicitly stated he wants this manga to work as a standalone series for readers who have not read NnT. The only reason this whole Demon Realm segment was possible is because we already had an arc set in this location before that established Zeldris as a beloved new king and introduced Schwarz's group on the side. That's why Nakaba could create this scene where Zeldris heroically buys time for his people while Schwarz looks on with tears in his eyes. The readers know these characters and understand what's going on. The Archangels have not had their sequel debut yet and the Goddess Realm is foreign even to fans of the prequel so the same kind of scenario simply wouldn't work with them.

Once Lancelot is done with the demons there will be two options for the next development. He can either go to Britannia so that the plot can move forward or Nakaba can give him an even stronger opponent to showcase his full strength against. The most obvious candidate for the latter scenario is Behemoth given that it's close by and would reasonably be woken up by all this chaos. The Sacred Tree could work too given that it should be on par with the DK, but we don't know if it can fight and Lancelot destroying two realms back to back would be redundant anyway so this seems less likely. Hawk is technically on the table as well, though I don't really see that happening due to the problems with Purgatory. Cath didn't bring it up as an option earlier so he doesn't care about the realm and Lancelot had no reason to go there even back when he was still trying to stall because the time dilation means he'd have to stay there for thousands of years just to buy his friends a couple of days of preparation. That said, such an experience could serve to help Lancelot better understand what his father went through and maybe also age him up a little to compensate for the opposite time dilation he experienced at the lake, so I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question.

Some people argue that the Behemoth is just a large beast containing a life spirit like any other living organism, while others believe it is an actual life spirit—similar to Percy—residing inside this massive creature.

But then again, animals don't possess souls, right? So what's the difference?
The difference between life spirits and souls is that life spirits animate the flesh while the soul is where the mind comes from. We know this based on what happened when the demons ate some humans' souls.
These people are stated to still be alive, but they're like empty husks that do nothing but stare blankly into the void. Melascula explanation about souls and bodies echoes this as well.
A soulless body is a living shell and not a dead one, meaning that it's still inhabited by life spirits even in the absence of a soul. I don't recall if it's ever been mentioned whether animals have souls, but given that they don't really have much of a mind and instead act on instinct it's plausible that they are soulless. In this case it makes sense that their life spirits going wild would cause the animal to go crazy, which seems to be what happened to Behemoth. Think of it like how real life animals can be unpredictable and dangerous if they're in pain. When Percival eventually calmed down the spirits the beast simply fell asleep again.

As a side note, if we consider Dreyfus's explanation about how magic power is the product of a person's will, belief and experience, all of which relate to the mind, we can surmise that magic probably originates from the soul as well. This also extends to the Graces, as shown when Escanor's soul was able to burn its way out of Melascula's stomach after being eaten. Another observation we can make based on the same premise is that Diodra's ability to steal other people's magic presumably involves absorbing their souls, which explains why his victims have to be dead in order for it to work. Instead of traveling to the afterlife the souls are drawn into Diodra. We know this absorption was not related to life spirits because Percival sensed Turret and Rothes's life spirits returning to the spirit realm at the time of their deaths. Anyway, Despair is the most overpowered magic in the entire series so I'm really curious what Nakaba has planned for it in the future.

So, can Lancelot actually nuke the Behemoth with a Shining Road?

I mean, while Lancelot was holding back, we saw the state of his weapon—it broke so easily after just one small Shining Road and a few attacks from Zeldris.

Can Lancelot actually fire a Nemesis-level Shining Road with this Chaos Spear?

Plot-wise, I feel like he has to. He has to destroy the Behemoth because there is no way he is leaving the Demon Realm without destroying it completely.

It would be embarrassing if he could only tickle the Behemoth with a city-level Shining Road, right?

Therefore, Lancelot's Chaos Spear has to receive a buff and become strong enough to channel enough power to fight the Behemoth.

Maybe Lancelot holding back was affecting the spear's durability, not just his own power.
Something to keep in mind about Shining Road is that it's an energy beam, meaning that it pretty much only does damage within a relatively small radius and in a straight line. Even if it has as much or more power behind it than Nemesis it wouldn't result in the same kind of area-of-effect destruction, which is why Nakaba was able to make the technique so strong in the first place. I mean, just think about how many random bystanders would have gotten caught up in the blasts if Shining Road instead worked like a bomb. The destruction being limited in scope is a feature, not a bug. I therefore doubt it's capable of wiping out countries let alone cities in a single hit, hence why Lancelot had to disassemble Camelot piece by piece instead of all at once.

Hmm, one of the things that makes sequels to stories awful is when rather than build on what happened previously they simply undo everything. When this manga started it sort didn't seem to fall into that trap. But with pantscelot now it really seems like the story is simply moving to undo every victory the gang had in NNT. I suppose deathpierce would be thriller about this?

And zeldris now dies gleefully at pantscelot's hands and tells him to save himself? Why would pantscelot want to live after this? He already murdered a number of people at camelot, including jericho. Thanks to zeldris demonkind's genocide was narrowly avoided and that if he doesn't pursue them to the abyss. Next he is most likely heading for the goddess realm where his goal will be the same, murder everyone. Even if the same scenario repeats the best case scenario appears to be a permanent separation of all races. On top of that pantscelot appears to be on collision course with the prediction about him murdering ban.

This is silly. This is too far. Saving his waifu does not justify this much indiscriminate murder. Like, I can buy the development itself but it's just nonsense that there's any redemption beyond it. Why would pantscelot want to live after ruining everyone's lives? Why would gwen want to be with someone with that much innocent blood in his hands? Pantscelot just doesn't come out of this being who he was. There's also the alternative that due to time travel shenanigans other races just left britania for a couple decades to preserve the timeline but that's not a good development. Pantscelot destroying britania isn't a good development. What is this manga?
Given Nakaba's track record with fake-out deaths I'm pretty sure both Jericho and Zeldris are going to be fine. The total casualties resulting from Lancelot's rampage by the end of this whole ordeal will likely only amount to a bunch of Chaos Knights, a crowd of demons and possibly Ban. Previous instances of someone committing heinous acts while under the influence of some evil force, such as what happened with Hendrickson and Mael, were forgiven fairly easily so Lancelot's situation isn't anything unusual for the setting. A part me wants Nakaba to follow the Arthurian legends and have Lancelot kill some of his fellow Knights of the Round Table, assuming said order will be established at some point.

In that timeline, Tristan is dead, which is also suspicious.
I doubt that's the case. Recall how Percival's kids were like "he can't be our dad because the real Percival isn't so goofy". If Tristan were dead in the future then shouldn't Ysaie have used a similar logic of "he can't be my father because the real Tristan died years ago"? That seems like a pretty glaring discrepancy compared to the supposed fake having a slightly different personality, so why was it not mentioned at all? In fact, why didn't the Grail Knights ever bring up that the KotA must be fakers because they were a group of four even though there should have only been three of them left after Tristan's passing?

I agree, I see a lot of people here and in the fandom in general want so badly for this be a branching timeline type of future story where nothing is set in stone but the writing Nakaba has shown us thus far says the opposite imo. This is more than likely a linear type of time travel mechanic he’s using and despite what some may think to me it seems clear that the future the holy grail knights come from is where the story will end.

Like you said nobody telling the grail knights what happened with this incident isn’t strange it most likely has to do with the 4 knights themselves knowing that they would eventually go to the past and be apart of this so they didn’t want them having prior information on what happens as it could’ve changed the outcome.
I don't subscribe to the theories presented in this thread regarding the timeline, but I'm confident that the story isn't simply going to be following a predetermined trajectory. Nakaba has already been toying with this idea in the form of Cath using Guinevere's prophecies to alter the intended course of events. Guinevere's paralyzing fear of defying fate is also clearly building up to her eventually finding the courage to stop blindly following the path set by her visions and instead choosing her own future, perhaps after she realizes that she may have been able to prevent Ban from dying by Lancelot's hand if only she had spoken up when she had the chance. Furthermore, if the story were simply heading towards the same world the Grail Knights come from then there wouldn't be any tension because we'd already know how things are going to go. It's crucial for something to change.

Did anyone even mention Mael by name in this series? I know he is alive and must be the SD but it's kinda funny to see Ludo's name first when Archangels never got mentioned before and his little brother is the only one alive.
Didn't Zeldris bring up Mael when he went to deliver Percival's helmet to Meliodas? Mael was also shown to be protecting the Fairy Realm in King&Diane's absence alongside Matrona and others.

I also wanna ask those who expect a Mael with the Grace, what's the evidence you have to be so sure Sunshine has come back to Mael?
There is no real evidence one way or the other. My money is on Mael still having the Grace simply because it's such an integral part of his powers and identity. When Mael eventually shows up he's likely going to get a chance to show off a bit just like Zeldris just now, and that's going to difficult to do if he's entirely reliant on his Ark techniques. I could see him and the other Archangels losing their Graces by the end of the story though.
 

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All of the Archangels getting sealed away at the same time sounded a bit excessive so I'm glad it was actually just Ludociel. The fact that Nakaba is name-dropping him like this gives me the impression we'll be seeing more of him later on. As hostile as Schwarz and the other demons initially were towards Tristan I've always expected the goddesses to be even worse due to their seething hatred of the demons. Ludociel is the perfect fit to serve as the face of that sentiment during the eventual Goddess Realm arc.


Behemoth is clearly not an ordinary beast given its absurd size and strength easily surpassing that of Zeldris, that's why I speculated it could be a primordial Chaos monster akin to its namesake. It wouldn't have been created to benefit the demons but rather for some other purpose that the DK decided to take advantage of, much like how he used the Lady of the Lake, another unusual Chaos creation with an unclear purpose, to recover his magic reserves ahead of his final battle with the Sins.

In the pages I posted Bouncyval establishes that life spirits exist within Behemoth and in your pic he says they are behind it, which both refer to the beast being powered by said spirits just like all other life forms. At no point is it suggested that the monster itself is a spirit. That wouldn't even make sense given how we know that life spirits are invisible to non-spirits except for when Percival uses his magic to manifest them as green blobs, whereas Behemoth has a well-defined physical form. It's not that surprising for such a massive quantity of life spirits to have an effect on its surroundings, especially when the (still unexplained, I might add) presence of the portal was agitating them further. Think of it like how an intense fire produced by flame spirits radiates heat that can be felt from a distance. The wiki is entirely maintained by fans and is not an official source.


They are allies, hence why I said it would be unintentional. The idea is inspired by the legends where Mordred takes advantage of Lancelot's affair with Guinevere to start a civil war in Camelot, which essentially means that Lancelot's actions caused that war even though he didn't intend for it to happen. I'm skeptical about the Guinevere love triangle making an appearance in the manga at this point, but it wouldn't be too difficult for Lancelot make some other stupid mistake for her sake that then triggers a similar conflict. Same thing with something like Gawain overusing her powers during a difficult fight and scorching crops all over Britannia in the process, thus triggering a famine. I'm pretty much 100% certain that the KotA's disasters will end up mirroring the Sins' crimes in the sense that they'll mostly be misunderstandings, like how Meliodas was blamed for destroying Danafor even though the city had already fallen to demons by the time he wiped it off the map. He's technically guilty but not really.

As for Bartra, I feel like Nakaba would want to keep the twist a secret until later, but it would be possible for Bartra to for example have a prophetic dream that is so terrifying that he dies from shock before he can warn anyone about it. Well, I guess for narrative purposes there would have to be someone who overhears the warning but then neglects to tell anyone about it until things have already gone wrong.


I don't think that's obvious, in fact I don't believe it's going to happen at all. This Demon Realm segment is meant to establish how much of a threat Lancelot is by showing him attacking innocent civilians and defeating a strong combatant like Zeldris. There's nothing to be gained from doing the same thing again with the goddesses. Also don't forget that Nakaba has explicitly stated he wants this manga to work as a standalone series for readers who have not read NnT. The only reason this whole Demon Realm segment was possible is because we already had an arc set in this location before that established Zeldris as a beloved new king and introduced Schwarz's group on the side. That's why Nakaba could create this scene where Zeldris heroically buys time for his people while Schwarz looks on with tears in his eyes. The readers know these characters and understand what's going on. The Archangels have not had their sequel debut yet and the Goddess Realm is foreign even to fans of the prequel so the same kind of scenario simply wouldn't work with them.

Once Lancelot is done with the demons there will be two options for the next development. He can either go to Britannia so that the plot can move forward or Nakaba can give him an even stronger opponent to showcase his full strength against. The most obvious candidate for the latter scenario is Behemoth given that it's close by and would reasonably be woken up by all this chaos. The Sacred Tree could work too given that it should be on par with the DK, but we don't know if it can fight and Lancelot destroying two realms back to back would be redundant anyway so this seems less likely. Hawk is technically on the table as well, though I don't really see that happening due to the problems with Purgatory. Cath didn't bring it up as an option earlier so he doesn't care about the realm and Lancelot had no reason to go there even back when he was still trying to stall because the time dilation means he'd have to stay there for thousands of years just to buy his friends a couple of days of preparation. That said, such an experience could serve to help Lancelot better understand what his father went through and maybe also age him up a little to compensate for the opposite time dilation he experienced at the lake, so I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question.


The difference between life spirits and souls is that life spirits animate the flesh while the soul is where the mind comes from. We know this based on what happened when the demons ate some humans' souls.
These people are stated to still be alive, but they're like empty husks that do nothing but stare blankly into the void. Melascula explanation about souls and bodies echoes this as well.
A soulless body is a living shell and not a dead one, meaning that it's still inhabited by life spirits even in the absence of a soul. I don't recall if it's ever been mentioned whether animals have souls, but given that they don't really have much of a mind and instead act on instinct it's plausible that they are soulless. In this case it makes sense that their life spirits going wild would cause the animal to go crazy, which seems to be what happened to Behemoth. Think of it like how real life animals can be unpredictable and dangerous if they're in pain. When Percival eventually calmed down the spirits the beast simply fell asleep again.

As a side note, if we consider Dreyfus's explanation about how magic power is the product of a person's will, belief and experience, all of which relate to the mind, we can surmise that magic probably originates from the soul as well. This also extends to the Graces, as shown when Escanor's soul was able to burn its way out of Melascula's stomach after being eaten. Another observation we can make based on the same premise is that Diodra's ability to steal other people's magic presumably involves absorbing their souls, which explains why his victims have to be dead in order for it to work. Instead of traveling to the afterlife the souls are drawn into Diodra. We know this absorption was not related to life spirits because Percival sensed Turret and Rothes's life spirits returning to the spirit realm at the time of their deaths. Anyway, Despair is the most overpowered magic in the entire series so I'm really curious what Nakaba has planned for it in the future.


Something to keep in mind about Shining Road is that it's an energy beam, meaning that it pretty much only does damage within a relatively small radius and in a straight line. Even if it has as much or more power behind it than Nemesis it wouldn't result in the same kind of area-of-effect destruction, which is why Nakaba was able to make the technique so strong in the first place. I mean, just think about how many random bystanders would have gotten caught up in the blasts if Shining Road instead worked like a bomb. The destruction being limited in scope is a feature, not a bug. I therefore doubt it's capable of wiping out countries let alone cities in a single hit, hence why Lancelot had to disassemble Camelot piece by piece instead of all at once.


Given Nakaba's track record with fake-out deaths I'm pretty sure both Jericho and Zeldris are going to be fine. The total casualties resulting from Lancelot's rampage by the end of this whole ordeal will likely only amount to a bunch of Chaos Knights, a crowd of demons and possibly Ban. Previous instances of someone committing heinous acts while under the influence of some evil force, such as what happened with Hendrickson and Mael, were forgiven fairly easily so Lancelot's situation isn't anything unusual for the setting. A part me wants Nakaba to follow the Arthurian legends and have Lancelot kill some of his fellow Knights of the Round Table, assuming said order will be established at some point.


I doubt that's the case. Recall how Percival's kids were like "he can't be our dad because the real Percival isn't so goofy". If Tristan were dead in the future then shouldn't Ysaie have used a similar logic of "he can't be my father because the real Tristan died years ago"? That seems like a pretty glaring discrepancy compared to the supposed fake having a slightly different personality, so why was it not mentioned at all? In fact, why didn't the Grail Knights ever bring up that the KotA must be fakers because they were a group of four even though there should have only been three of them left after Tristan's passing?


I don't subscribe to the theories presented in this thread regarding the timeline, but I'm confident that the story isn't simply going to be following a predetermined trajectory. Nakaba has already been toying with this idea in the form of Cath using Guinevere's prophecies to alter the intended course of events. Guinevere's paralyzing fear of defying fate is also clearly building up to her eventually finding the courage to stop blindly following the path set by her visions and instead choosing her own future, perhaps after she realizes that she may have been able to prevent Ban from dying by Lancelot's hand if only she had spoken up when she had the chance. Furthermore, if the story were simply heading towards the same world the Grail Knights come from then there wouldn't be any tension because we'd already know how things are going to go. It's crucial for something to change.


Didn't Zeldris bring up Mael when he went to deliver Percival's helmet to Meliodas? Mael was also shown to be protecting the Fairy Realm in King&Diane's absence alongside Matrona and others.


There is no real evidence one way or the other. My money is on Mael still having the Grace simply because it's such an integral part of his powers and identity. When Mael eventually shows up he's likely going to get a chance to show off a bit just like Zeldris just now, and that's going to difficult to do if he's entirely reliant on his Ark techniques. I could see him and the other Archangels losing their Graces by the end of the story though.
Running about and facing stronger and stronger oponents IS what usually constitutes a gauntlet run, which is what you imply if you think he'll eventually fight the Behemoth and the Archangels later. That Nakaba may also use the opportunity to waste the goddess realm in the process as an info dump to new and old readers will not change that fact. So yeah, I still think this IS quite obvious. If something else utterly unexpected hsppens you can colour me surprised. But I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Yakkun

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At this point, the 4KOTA can get out the way. I don’t care about anything they have going on. Meliodas is the one who needs to be Cath.
He'd deserve it for sure. Deserves it the most of everyone right now, probably.

But I don't think it will happen. To me it would just be kinda weird considering context. Elizabeth's current state clearly broke something in him. And even though he will snap out of it eventually I don't think it would be now. Zeldris' seeming demise could fuel his rage but might as well just add the burden and drive him deeper into apathy. If he suddenly snapped out of it it would just be weirdly convenient.

There is also the prophecy to take into account which basically makes all of this the job of the 4KotA, not the Sins. Also, the hand Meliodas has been dealt thanks to Cath also falls in line with what Cath showed Meliodas at the end of NNT: It is one of the possible futures that was to await him. The one we saw back then had Meliodas also lose Ban, and Elizabeth and there was no word of the other Sins. It was not a dream, not an illusion but just one of many possible futures. All real, all possible. And the one we witness right now might just be yet another one. Different but also heavy with loss. It seems Meliodas just can't catch a break. The only thing that could make this even worse to him is if we get lore-accurate Tristan. God forbid.
 

Maelstrom Omega

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Well this outcome was inevitable but Zeldris sure did great. I hope nobody will start downplaying him.

His problem in this fight and even back in nnt was definitely his lack of finishing blows. He don’t have a particularly outstanding attack potential. Back then against Mael or Ludociel, even tho he outplayed them sometimes, he still couldn’t beat them definitely. ON sure is effective but it’s not a finishing blow against anyone with a decent durability and a healing magic.

Also There seems to be some disparity between @FKS translation and the official release ?
How commendable of you... to think you took every hit from me and never even once dealt me a decisive blow...

In fks’ version it says that Lancelot was avoiding dealing a decisive blow on Lancelot while the official one says that Zeldris couldn’t land a single decisive blow on Lancelot despite landing many hits. So which one is more accurate ?
I think I’ll trust the OTL one more. I mean Chaos Lancelot did make some offensive moves but Zeldris was just countering him again and again.
Nakaba is free to glaze Lancelot the way he wants but we gotta give Zeldris his credits.









 

FKS

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Also There seems to be some disparity between @FKS translation and the official release ?

In fks’ version it says that Lancelot was avoiding dealing a decisive blow on Lancelot while the official one says that Zeldris couldn’t land a single decisive blow on Lancelot despite landing many hits. So which one is more accurate ?
I think I’ll trust the OTL one more. I mean Chaos Lancelot did make some offensive moves but Zeldris was just countering him again and again.
Oops, I was too tired to catch that. Yes, Zel says Lance didn't let him land even one decisive blow on Lance.
 

Mighty Escanor

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It’s funny how you try to ignore just how atrocious Mael’s actions were, even before he became Estarossa, simply to push your own agenda and fuel your hatred.

If you’re going to hold Lancelot accountable for the actions of "Chaos Lancelot" even though he was forced into that state as a consequence of his own choices, then I don’t see how you can absolve Mael of responsibility for his time as Estarossa, which was also the direct result of Mael’s own actions and decisions.

Mael wasn’t just some random victim chosen by Gowther.
He was the biggest killer of the first Holy War, earning the title "Angel of Death", He slaughtered innocent demon civilians who were begging and weeping before him, solely because of their race, one of this group included Glariza, Gowther’s beloved, and that why he chose him.
The only reason the 1st holy war Mael didn’t wipe out the entire demon race is that he simply wasn’t powerful enough to do so.



And what has Lancelot actually done so far, by comparison?
In Camelot? He evacuated all the inhabitants beforehand, the only ones left were a band of mercenary knights, with whom they was at war, and Jericho, who chose for herself to die alongside Fakecelot.
In the Demon Realm? He barely killed a few demons before the Induras and Zeldris intervened.

His total kill count so far consists of : a small band of mercenaries, Jericho (who chose her own fate), two Indura, Zeldris, and a few of random demons.

Mael used to kill more than that in a single day during the Holy War.
I mostly agree with you, but don't forget that Lancelot somehow belongs to the same league. The only KotA with the title god of war because he killed countless enemy knights. You may argue that there were knights not random civilians. But the number of people murdered by him is a lot bigger than what you mentioned in your post. Among them is Mortlach who in no way deserved to die like that. Lancelot does care about the life, he buried the bodies of his enemies and planted seeds over them. The problem is, he never cared about ending lives at all! Not giving the enemy a chance to surrender or reconsider their ways. It's in stark contrast with Percy's behavior which turns enemies into allies and spreads hope.

So Lancelot defendable? Yes. Good? Not at all.

I still think we will get a Celestial Realm arc, but not with Lancelot of Chaos.
I truly hope so. But I'm afraid the promise of separated worlds after this fight means no GR arc in the future!

There is no real evidence one way or the other. My money is on Mael still having the Grace simply because it's such an integral part of his powers and identity. When Mael eventually shows up he's likely going to get a chance to show off a bit just like Zeldris just now, and that's going to difficult to do if he's entirely reliant on his Ark techniques. I could see him and the other Archangels losing their Graces by the end of the story though.
The Grace is an integral part of Escanor's power and identity as well. And Gawain has an obvious connection to it with her Dawn magic. There's a greater potential to let it remain outside of the GC, and explain various aspect of this power and its connection to humanity. Specially now that SD is defeated and the only remnants of her power can be found either in form of the Graces (if they didn't cease to exist after her defeat), or within Merlin's Aldan because she was actively messing with SD right before her demise.

Knowing Nakaba, he can ruin all the potentials, give Grace back to Mael, and ignore all the mysteries regarding this power. I just seriously hope he is wiser than that!
 

Zezu1995

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i mean zeldris blows wasnt gonna do anything anyways... even if he used hellblaze enchanment to block regen , chaos regen is time manipulation so it wouldnt even stop him. and sealing dont work either, zeldris has no kit to end lance
 

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I don't subscribe to the theories presented in this thread regarding the timeline, but I'm confident that the story isn't simply going to be following a predetermined trajectory. Nakaba has already been toying with this idea in the form of Cath using Guinevere's prophecies to alter the intended course of events. Guinevere's paralyzing fear of defying fate is also clearly building up to her eventually finding the courage to stop blindly following the path set by her visions and instead choosing her own future, perhaps after she realizes that she may have been able to prevent Ban from dying by Lancelot's hand if only she had spoken up when she had the chance. Furthermore, if the story were simply heading towards the same world the Grail Knights come from then there wouldn't be any tension because we'd already know how things are going to go. It's crucial for something to change.
The story heading towards the future the grail knights come from doesn’t remove the tension because we don’t know anything that lead to that future, all we know is the 4 knights have kids and that’s it. If the grail knights actually knew what happened to the other clans or how this chaos Lancelot situation is gonna end and told us then I would agree with you but the fact that they literally know nothing imo means we’re going to find out in real time what happens and what leads to their future.

It wouldn’t make sense to have their future completely avoided or changed and we never find out what happened in their timeline or what lead to it. They obviously can’t tell us what happened, so the only person that could is maybe Guinevere. If she tells us what happens that leads to their future then I’ll agree that it might be changed but if she still says nothing then I think that implies the story is heading to their future as the end point and it won’t seem as bad as everyone thinks because we’ll have full context on everything that’s going on and not just bits and pieces that make their future sound bad
 

Rey151203

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In the pages I posted Bouncyval establishes that life spirits exist within Behemoth and in your pic he says they are behind it, which both refer to the beast being powered by said spirits just like all other life forms. At no point is it suggested that the monster itself is a spirit
So how was the monster calmed through the spirits? Besides having a power identical to the spirits of life, possessing an energy that gives vitality to demons and at the same time death, yes, Behemoth is 100% a life spirit in the body of a monster.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Behemoth is clearly not an ordinary beast given its absurd size and strength easily surpassing that of Zeldris, that's why I speculated it could be a primordial Chaos monster akin to its namesake. It wouldn't have been created to benefit the demons but rather for some other purpose that the DK decided to take advantage of, much like how he used the Lady of the Lake, another unusual Chaos creation with an unclear purpose, to recover his magic reserves ahead of his final battle with the Sins.
He was probably created by the Mother of Chaos, just like Cath Hawk and Wild. Nakaba said that the beasts of purgatory were creations of the Mother of Chaos, so Behemoth probably wasn't born that size; he grew over time.
 
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