Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1197 Spoiler Discussion

[Prince13333]

Best non-Luffy fight in the series argue with your motha

 

[kkck]

I think King ,and Katakuri deserve to be added to the “can at least fight an admiral and not die” list.

For the Strawhats, Sanji definitely gets a place on that list too since he already did it on Egghead, and that means Zoro has to be added as well since they are relatively equals. Not sure if Boa and Yamato count, but they would definitely be on the list for the Strawhats.

For Buggy, obviously Mihawk, and I might be misremembering, but I think Crocodile held off at least one Admiral during Marineford.

For Blackbeard, obviously Kuzan, and then maybe Shiryu. As one of the two candidates for end of series villain, his crew is kind of weak.

No real way to judge Shanks’s crew at this point since they haven’t actually had any fights, but Beckman did get the drop on Kizaru, so I assume at least he and at least a couple other crew members can hang with the heavy hitters.

Hmm, I don't know. Katakuri lost to luffy and then we saw luffy get one shot by kaido. King didn't do a thing to aramaki. Big mom had no respect for katakuri and she did for marco. Marco was able to fight king and queen simultaneously. WB's executives are just in a different tier than big mom's and kaido's. I refuse to believe Mihawk would show so much respect for vista if vista was some chump who was closer to oven's tier than an admiral.

Yamato wasn't one shot by hybrid kaido so that puts her fairly high up the pecking order.

Crocodile at marineford threw tornadoes at people which may not necessarily be a reference of power level.

With shanks affiliated pirates being so weak I'd say there's a bigger chance that his crew structure is meant to not be quite like kaido's or big mom's. Specially since his affiliated crews are supposed to be almost comically weak. In context weak compared to kaido's headliners or big mom lesser children and combatants like bege. It wouldn't be that strange if shank's weakest executives were in the ballpark of calamities or sweet commanders. Shank's crew having 2 yonko level fighters and a bunch of king/katakuri's would enable it to make up for 50 weak affiliated captains. And justify kizaru being held at gunpoint by beckham.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 9:39 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 9:37 PM ---

True, but the admirals were very limited, because not allowed to damage the holy land... So in every other place the fights would be very different.

Hmm, I suppose they wouldn't be willing to just trash the place but that's not an issue for the revolutionaries. Specially with the giant having a particularly destructive ability.

 

[Tonix]

Hmm, I don't know. Katakuri lost to luffy and then we saw luffy get one shot by kaido. King didn't do a thing to aramaki

Yonko (at least the old gen ones) are kind of just on a different tier than Admirals though. Sick old man Whitebeard who was already wounded absolutely smacked the shit out of Akainu. I think Katakuri showed enough to prove he can at least clash with Admiral level opponents at least to the extent Jozu did.

King was also still very much recovering from serious injuries after his fight with Zoro when his “fight” with Aramaki took place, so it’s unfair to judge his performance there.

 

[kkck]

Yonko (at least the old gen ones) are kind of just on a different tier than Admirals though. Sick old man Whitebeard who was already wounded absolutely smacked the shit out of Akainu. I think Katakuri showed enough to prove he can at least clash with Admiral level opponents at least to the extent Jozu did.

King was also still very much recovering from serious injuries after his fight with Zoro when his “fight” with Aramaki took place, so it’s unfair to judge his performance there.

The only thing katakuri has show is that he scales to WCI G4 luffy with newly acquired obsevation haki. And this version of luffy still got one shot by kaido. Which is why ultimately big mom has no respect for katakuri's strength and she does for marco.

As far as admirals vs yonko go, to me it looks like the insinuation is that yonko and admirals are in the same tier. Obviously there can be and there are power gaps between them. We ultimately saw how luffy and borsalino held up against one another and they were pretty even. Naturally one would expect Kuzan to be above borsalino but I wouldn't expect a massive difference.

King is an ancient zoan user with lunarian physiology. Queen is a cyborg ancient zoan. Their recovery even in prison should be off the charts.

 

[wing_gundam]

And Luffy will stop overeating, and Zoro will stop drinking.

Oda is a chain smoker.

Blessed sake and cigs are probably the only things keeping him functional.

True, but it's just a tad ironic to say you're going to love yourself and protect your body and not stop smoking. Yeah it's utter fiction but at least Zoro's not drinking as he fights. And liver damage isn't quite the same as lung cancer in terms of ability to fight.

Let's just knock it up to Germa body enhancing.

 

[Prince13333]

How do you justify Zoro being Stronger than Sanji at this point?not even trolling but from an ability standpoint Sanji has more than enough to defeat him. So I’m assuming Zoro has another level to tap into this arc.

 

[XXGenesis]

…..I rlly don’t wanna rain on anyone’s parade or Yucks someone’s Yum…this is pretty contrived…And it’s not character hate, I’m really side eyeing the F outta Oda right now…This is how Sanji achieves Conqeuor Haki…

 

[TitaniumOxide]

*your not gonna hit me anymore"
and then proceeds to get launhced awy after destroying the spear?

This is why I thought the spoilers were fake at first.

 

[Trip_LLL]

You know. I really like how over-explained anything with Sanji is.
Zoro is just like whatever. Lineage? Bro don't care. Distant relatives in flashbacks? He'll never know. Told exactly what Conqs is? Doesn't matter til it matters. King and all the hints he dropped? Nah, Zoro doesn't reflect on fights like that. What is King of Hell? Zoro hasn't narrated it. He didnt even introspect and wonder about the clouds or ominous black lightning. He just knew to go all out.

Sanji? I know everything I need to know about how this man feels about his family. X Rays of Sanji's body to see his bones breaking? Yup. Characters going out of their way to say when he's using armament? Yup. Sanji telling us what he's doing to get blue flames? Yup, he tells us exoskeleton
And now with this, Sanji is there, trying to string together events, and then telling us point blank that he can make ifrit jambe by pairing exoskeleton and armament. And now, here he is narrating that his armament is suddenly stronger too, and therefore, he can use hotter flames.

I'm being a bit more agressive to express this, but Oda has maintained incredible consistency in how the narrative showcases the two. Thank goodness for Sanji.
That said, Sanji being so narratively overexposed is what makes it harder for one to draw consistent metaphors with him because we've seen too many of his thought processes, strengths, and weaknesses.
Rule of thumb is generally the less concrete details you give in a narrative, the more leeway you have in the future, and that is just something Sanji cannot provide Oda in certain circumstances.

This is why I thought the spoilers were fake at first.

I think Oda hasn't played enough games to know how to actually showcase a dedicated evasion tank in a back-and-forth fight. Which is weird, because characters have shown evasion tank-type moves in the manga.
I guess it might also just showcase Killingham's offensive parameters too.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Oda of found a good way to explain how Sanji was not unleashing his high potential which is consistent with the lineage factor activation at Onigashima. Coupled with the Haki bloom in death fight from Rayleigh and the need to use ACoC to win by Gaban, I find it solid. Zoro also had a first unconscious ACoC unlocking during his fight against King even though he didn’t master it like Luffy did.

The good thing about this new Sanji shield version is that we can expect him to become a badass. We were kind of let down by Oda since the timeskip as he pushed the pervert joke too far and he also got Sanji beaten up by Black Maria and as we missed the Mr. Prince and Hunter versions.

I hope that now the SHs will finally look like a Yonko crew after Luffy’s defeat against Imu and Sanji/Zoro awakening ACoC. Gaban badmouthing the whole crew (Luffy and his wings) for being unserious was a solid plot development from Oda that we all needed as readers.

 

[Demonspeed]

Haki was never that great but it's kinda sad how Oda homogenized everything. When it was revealed that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji were better at each of the types I expected different power ups. At least for Luffy and Sanji since Zoro is all about slashing.

Advanced CoC just makes you punch harder, Advanced CoA is a worse version of it that's available to people who lack CoC. And other than foresight there has been nothing really interesting about CoO.

Sanji now has CoC and a better CoA but he has shown nothing really interesting with CoO.

 

[Zehahaha]

The only thing katakuri has show is that he scales to WCI G4 luffy with newly acquired obsevation haki. And this version of luffy still got one shot by kaido. Which is why ultimately big mom has no respect for katakuri's strength and she does for marco.

As far as admirals vs yonko go, to me it looks like the insinuation is that yonko and admirals are in the same tier. Obviously there can be and there are power gaps between them. We ultimately saw how luffy and borsalino held up against one another and they were pretty even. Naturally one would expect Kuzan to be above borsalino but I wouldn't expect a massive difference.

King is an ancient zoan user with lunarian physiology. Queen is a cyborg ancient zoan. Their recovery even in prison should be off the charts.

Gear 5 whooped Kizaru’s sorry ass. If it weren’t for Oda’s disgusting Admiral agenda, it would’ve been worse

 

[Federicoxxx]

--- Double Post Merged, Today at 1:57 PM, Original Post Date: Today at 12:03 PM ---

 

[XXGenesis]

Haki was never that great but it's kinda sad how Oda homogenized everything. When it was revealed that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji were better at each of the types I expected different power ups. At least for Luffy and Sanji since Zoro is all about slashing.

Advanced CoC just makes you punch harder, Advanced CoA is a worse version of it that's available to people who lack CoC. And other than foresight there has been nothing really interesting about CoO.

Sanji now has CoC and a better CoA but he has shown nothing really interesting with CoO.

Haki is .
Seriously this power system is not the best out there..Far from it. Graat idea, about Will vs Dreams.
One Piece has many great ideas, that suffers from poor execution on some of them. But logic is the story’s biggest Achilles heel.

I’m still enjoying One Piece but each arc, glaring quality of writing, & writing choices keeps sticking out. It’s starting to give the same effect The end of Naruto & Bleach had.

 

[hunterxyamani]

i dreamed for a day like this ! Sanji was always my favourite character because i like how he fights with his foot etc and finally Oda after humiliating him so many times and times decided to power up him !

 

[Federicoxxx]

 

[TitaniumOxide]

You know. I really like how over-explained anything with Sanji is.
Zoro is just like whatever. Lineage? Bro don't care. Distant relatives in flashbacks? He'll never know. Told exactly what Conqs is? Doesn't matter til it matters. King and all the hints he dropped? Nah, Zoro doesn't reflect on fights like that. What is King of Hell? Zoro hasn't narrated it. He didnt even introspect and wonder about the clouds or ominous black lightning. He just knew to go all out.

Sanji? I know everything I need to know about how this man feels about his family. X Rays of Sanji's body to see his bones breaking? Yup. Characters going out of their way to say when he's using armament? Yup. Sanji telling us what he's doing to get blue flames? Yup, he tells us exoskeleton
And now with this, Sanji is there, trying to string together events, and then telling us point blank that he can make ifrit jambe by pairing exoskeleton and armament. And now, here he is narrating that his armament is suddenly stronger too, and therefore, he can use hotter flames.

I'm being a bit more agressive to express this, but Oda has maintained incredible consistency in how the narrative showcases the two. Thank goodness for Sanji.
That said, Sanji being so narratively overexposed is what makes it harder for one to draw consistent metaphors with him because we've seen too many of his thought processes, strengths, and weaknesses.
Rule of thumb is generally the less concrete details you give in a narrative, the more leeway you have in the future, and that is just something Sanji cannot provide Oda in certain circumstances.



I think Oda hasn't played enough games to know how to actually showcase a dedicated evasion tank in a back-and-forth fight. Which is weird, because characters have shown evasion tank-type moves in the manga.
I guess it might also just showcase Killingham's offensive parameters too.

I will give Oda a pass for this and chalk it up to Sanji actually meaning Killingham won't be able to damage him anymore... kind of a stretch but I have grace to give today.

 

[Asmobot]

Best non-Luffy fight in the series argue with your motha

Garp + Roger vs Rocks, WB vs Akainu, Usopp vs Perona, Garp vs BB crew, Zoro vs King, Franky vs Señor Pink (for the flashback reasons) and could probably add many many more