Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1197 Spoiler Discussion

[Trip_LLL]

So what does this mean for the rest of the crew, does this mean that everyone else in the crew is suddenly irrelevant?

Because, if so, then I don’t like that. I’ve frequently seen other people say “Monster Trio” and “Wings” said to make the others look irrelevant elsewhere, so I’ve grown wary and unfavorable towards this because of that, and Oda doing all this just makes it look even worse.

So if so, then I don’t care how much you guys hype it up, if the rest of the crew is irrelevant because of hype nicknames, then I’d say that’s bad. Bad for waste characters and bad for the story overall.

The crew will still get their Blackbeard fights and their war contributions, at the very minimum.
Nami will still navigate them through crazy weather phenomena and get them to their next destination alive.
Jinbe will still man the helm.
Chopper will still cure the incurable, and will probably cure Luffy's eventual disease. And he's still the only one who can slap demons out of someone.
Brook will still get a ridiculous amount of attention.
Franky will still get Oda's bias.
Usopp is probably going to get to do something to Imu.

And to point it out, it wasn't the fans or "other people" who came up with "Wings." It was Robin who declared it, and the rest of the One Piece world who propagated it. And now it's Sanji declaring them Sword and Shield. Not fans.
It wasn't the fans. It was Oda first. The fans followed Oda's terminology. You're getting upset by people repeating Oda's words.

 

[Ketimatsu]

So what does this mean for the rest of the crew, does this mean that everyone else in the crew is suddenly irrelevant?

Because, if so, then I don’t like that. I’ve frequently seen other people say “Monster Trio” and “Wings” said to make the others look irrelevant elsewhere, so I’ve grown wary and unfavorable towards this because of that, and Oda doing all this just makes it look even worse.

So if so, then I don’t care how much you guys hype it up, if the rest of the crew is irrelevant because of hype nicknames, then I’d say that’s bad. Bad for waste characters and bad for the story overall.

Irrelevant as "fighters" - yes. But this has been going since the time skip, where Oda has chosen to develop other characters such as Law rather than the strawhats. You can also just enjoy chapters like the last one, where Oda properly develops some of them still, especially Sanji who has been the most developed character in terms of narrative. That's not bad for the story per se, just different. I did prefer when all the SH had their time, and also why I think this crew has way too many members now. XD

 

[JStackz26]

Glorious day. Finally. Knew it all along. I hope there is less downplaying of Sanji in the future.

Next up will be Yamato and hopefully my other hopes for crewmates. The only issue now is are Sanji and Zoro the levels of Kaido and Big Mom, which it looks like they will surpass.

My guess is this, Rayleigh said old Rayleigh could not beat Blackbeard but Blackbeard was kind of scared of old Rayleigh off name. Which means Rayleigh and Scopper were likely stronger than current Blackbeard. Plus you have old Scopper being able to make Imu bleed. That gives you an idea of the striking power Rayleigh and Scooper had to break through current Kaido'w defense as well as Big Mom. Then you have to wonder how Oden would have actually fared in a fair fight against Kaido. Which I would suggest is where Yamato would rank. Since we introduced Yamato weaker than Kaido, I'm guessing she will be stronger than Kaido by series end. And by default Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yonko.

I wonder what 1198 will be and I guess so much for Sanji and a devil fruit.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 4:18 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 4:13 PM ---

Yeah, compared to queen, the thing this fight has is the sense of self, whereas the Queen fight highlighted how little he respected himself.

Looking at this current summary, my read would be that Sanji's sense of self/resolve also boosted his general haki.

If we recall, I believe Oda stated somewhere, near the start of the timeskip (SBS71), that Sanji's specialty was Observation, while Zoro's was Armament's and Luffy's was Conq. And that was largely true.
Sanji never showed Hardening, which was the most basic tell for Armament. We needed other characters to tell us that Sanji was even using the invisible armor form of armament.
So, logically, Sanji has A LOT of room to get even the most basic armament upgrade.
So now, Sanji needs exoskeleton to use ifrit, and with the Armament upgrade, he's finally got the defensive power that anyone who could harden, like Vergo, has.
As for the flames, given that Sanji has never been in danger from his flames, we can just say his self love burns hotter than the flames and call it a day. I do think that if the flames of the basic diable jambe hurt Sanji, we would have something stronger, narratively, but seeing as we were already dealing with a nonsensical power with a nonsensical explanation, the power continuing to not hurt Sanji is no big deal.

--- Double Post Merged, Tuesday at 5:54 PM, Original Post Date: Tuesday at 5:51 PM ---

It's probably the knights. Who in the Revs have Conq?
The knights with their Devil Fruit mastery are probably more than enough for the army captains.
Killingham hidden, producing nightmares, is enough to overrun a country of giants. He's still terrorizing giants while fighting Sanji. Come on, man. Don't limit yourself to straight confrontations when the war fights are chaotic exchanges.

Well umm it seems all three it Rayleigh (unless he just knows of it) Roger and Scopper have future sight, likely expect that all three of the monster trio learn it.

 

[HereNThere]

The chapter was better then the spoiler made it. Still as said before, its still not made clear ot me if Sanji loses the germa enchaments or have made them his own now. But now I even gotten a deeper question, is Saji now aware he is channeling conquerer? He has found hsi resolve, even I can see that but like Zoro, conquerer is not made clear to everyone.

He's fully accepted them. He no longer views his body as a result of the machinations of his father, but as a gift from his mother and he's willing to make full use of his enhamcements under that new perspective to further protect his body that she birthed.

I'm assuming this also implies that, similar to Zoro's King of Hell misunderstanding, Sanji had also not been making full use of his Wano power up. Except he'd been knowingly holding back his enhancements until it was necessary, thus the eyebrows shifting every once in a while. Given the focus on them shifting in this chapter, the change may be permanent to highlight his full acceptance.

If it wasn't clear to him during the course of the chapter, it should be clear to him by the last kick he delivered since Killingham gave away the game. Armor breaking = supreme king haki.

 

[kkck]

Now getting sanji unconsciously using cladding is annoying. It was a weird enough plot point when zoro had it but it's also the right amount of buffoonery for zoro so the thing sort of got a pass. But now that it happened with sanji I am just wondering why luffy didn't do this by accident either. Luffy wasn't even going from scratch, he could use conqueror haki to knock out fodder before.

 

[HereNThere]

Now getting sanji unconsciously using cladding is annoying. It was a weird enough plot point when zoro had it but it's also the right amount of buffoonery for zoro so the thing sort of got a pass. But now that it happened with sanji I am just wondering why luffy didn't do this by accident either. Luffy wasn't even going from scratch, he could use conqueror haki to knock out fodder before.

YMMV, but I think an argument could be made to make it make sense. I think the key difference in their situation and Luffy's situation is, ironically enough, the fact that Luffy knew how to channel Supreme King Haki already. So the idea could be that, since Luffy knew what Supreme King Haki already feels like, he didn't have an issue of infusing it into his attacks unconciously because he could already differentiate the two feelings. He just didn't know they could be combined. And after figuring that out, he immediately was able to do it.

Meanwhile, Sanji and Zoro didn't have that awareness or training. Zoro and, throughout this chapter, Sanji just seemed to have been going full throttle with all their haki to achieve something. In Zoro's case, he had to go all out to pass Enma's test, which led to him leaking supreme king haki into his attacks. In Sanji's case, he went all out to achieve a greater sense of defense to start protecting his body, and that led to him leaking his own supreme king haki into his attacks. And since Gaban already told them they have it or have the potential for it, it was just a matter of filtering out the noise basically after the fact.

At least, that's going to be my read of the situation until Oda puts out an SBS excuse.

 

[aster4jaden]

Sanji's done it! Now I wonder now if Sommers and Killingham will die or Imu will do something devastating that saves them.

 

[electricmastro]

Glorious day. Finally. Knew it all along. I hope there is less downplaying of Sanji in the future.

Next up will be Yamato and hopefully my other hopes for crewmates. The only issue now is are Sanji and Zoro the levels of Kaido and Big Mom, which it looks like they will surpass.

My guess is this, Rayleigh said old Rayleigh could not beat Blackbeard but Blackbeard was kind of scared of old Rayleigh off name. Which means Rayleigh and Scopper were likely stronger than current Blackbeard. Plus you have old Scopper being able to make Imu bleed. That gives you an idea of the striking power Rayleigh and Scooper had to break through current Kaido'w defense as well as Big Mom. Then you have to wonder how Oden would have actually fared in a fair fight against Kaido. Which I would suggest is where Yamato would rank. Since we introduced Yamato weaker than Kaido, I'm guessing she will be stronger than Kaido by series end. And by default Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yonko.

I wonder what 1198 will be and I guess so much for Sanji and a devil fruit.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 4:18 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 4:13 PM ---

Well umm it seems all three it Rayleigh (unless he just knows of it) Roger and Scopper have future sight, likely expect that all three of the monster trio learn it.

I never gave a crap about Sanji getting more power, but if it means Yamato comes back soon, then I look forward to it.

--- Double Post Merged, Today at 5:45 AM ---

Irrelevant as "fighters" - yes. But this has been going since the time skip, where Oda has chosen to develop other characters such as Law rather than the strawhats. You can also just enjoy chapters like the last one, where Oda properly develops some of them still, especially Sanji who has been the most developed character in terms of narrative. That's not bad for the story per se, just different. I did prefer when all the SH had their time, and also why I think this crew has way too many members now. XD

If they’re irrelevant as fighters, then it’s a waste of time giving them all these powers like Zeus and other things.

I don’t like it, at all.

 

[AmyRose]

Sanji's done it! Now I wonder now if Sommers and Killingham will die or Imu will do something devastating that saves them.

Uhhhh, let's hope he's too busy with Loki to notice his minions dosen't do too well. Otherwise this will drag for at least half a year.

 

[KimCorrea]

I just hope that imu gets kicked out of elbaf by a Luffy, Zoro and Sanji joint attack. Collier onigiri bazooka or 5 billion beli jackpot or something like that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Now getting sanji unconsciously using cladding is annoying. It was a weird enough plot point when zoro had it but it's also the right amount of buffoonery for zoro so the thing sort of got a pass. But now that it happened with sanji I am just wondering why luffy didn't do this by accident either. Luffy wasn't even going from scratch, he could use conqueror haki to knock out fodder before.

Sanji is a prodigy...

 

[LaGOAT]

Whoa. The artwork made this chapter so much better.

This was the best chapter we've had in a while.

So Sanji has CoC now, where do we even go from here?

I guess defeating Sommers and Killingham weakens Imu and Luffy counter attacks and drive Imu away.

This is the first time where Sanji beat an opponent much stronger than Zoro's, which I never thought I'd see. Was hoping for black flames but that is such a small nitpick it doesnt really matter.

The panel work was also impressive. I haven't been liking the panel placement recently but this just proves Oda still has it.

I wish we could get the reactions from King Moe and Nik. This forum would be a war zone right about now lol

For real miss those days

 

[HereNThere]

Uhhhh, let's hope he's too busy with Loki to notice his minions dosen't do too well. Otherwise this will drag for at least half a year.

Yeah, they've already gotten their one time boon. Killingham pretty much implied in this chapter that Omen is the end all be all in terms of what Imu could provide for them. If the next chapter isn't Zoro focused to further highlight his role as the "Sword", I think it will just be focused on Killingham and Sommers hearts being destroyed at the same time.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Now getting sanji unconsciously using cladding is annoying. It was a weird enough plot point when zoro had it but it's also the right amount of buffoonery for zoro so the thing sort of got a pass. But now that it happened with sanji I am just wondering why luffy didn't do this by accident either. Luffy wasn't even going from scratch, he could use conqueror haki to knock out fodder before.

Well the way it was handled bothered me immensely too but I'm... over it kinda. I guess all the developments point to just one thing and that is the fact that anyone can possess any number of haki types, learnable or just born with it. Then these people will have all sorts of different paths to hone what they know and master it.

Some people, like Luffy are idiots. These people are taught, in detailed and baka spanked repeatedly by an older sensei til they get it. Some people are just determined and eventually get it like Zoro but also with guidance. Some people are depressed and like real people, when no longer under mental health pressures end up excelling once they are in the right mindset. Like Sanji. And this is for all forms of Haki I think and not even limited to just that. It is for basically all skills for all sorts of different people.

I'll say it again. The way this is handled with Sanji sucks imo but Oda is painting a much larger picture here in the way people learn how to control more and more advanced abilities. I am seeing a bunch of "AHA!" or lightbulb moments...they just aren't always the character looking happily surprised with an epiphany. These OP characters are under immense pressure but it is an AHA moment nonetheless, just under different framing.

 

[Federicoxxx]

Sanji's done it! Now I wonder now if Sommers and Killingham will die or Imu will do something devastating that saves them.

Cmon..how many cheats and buffs.. Imu's gonna keep adding to them?... no . By plot reasons and cause Oda's is showing insane growing in both---
Killingham and Sommer's are done for,, and is is goin to affect Imu's as Harald did ... however for this to work... they need to DIE, not defeat- not k.o-- DIE-- That's confuse me a little bit, cause i would have to asume they got Kill, by Zoro and Sanji .. "KILL" not "DEFEAT" or "K.O", so i m curious about how that's gonna play out..

Maybe it can be done in a way --that's doesn't look so COLD, and as a Murder,, like they being slammed against something and their hearts broke, and they being turn into skeleton, mostly due to the effect of that,, than just being chopped to pieces like in a Freddy Krueger or Gore Movie...

 

[chess4]

I think Sommers and killingham are good villians for this arc, but no need to bring them back. Wonder if Imu aill replace them with others? Maybe a way for Enel to be reintroduced

 

[monkey D luffy]

How many times has Sanji refereed to Zoro as "Zoro"? This seems like a big deal