452 - Omoi

[V-3]

admiring someone is not wrong. learning from them is what makes you improve. copying what theyve already done, is whats wrong.

Now everyone try to justify himself

 

[RhyssaFireheart]

My critique (as if anyone cares ):
As others have said, it's not your best, but you chose a difficult angle to light from. Most people do/did choose to have the light source coming from the left to highlight the face, which is typical. Having the source coming from behind is harder to pulloff and while it's not bad, it's just not working for me. Too dark is the first thought, mostly because of how heavy you have the shadows, there is a lot of detail lost, IMO. Maybe a very slight secondary light source coming from the lower left to pull out some more features of his face. Even with the heavy shadow being cast from behind, there doesn't seem to be enough additional shadows to give shape to his facial features to really accentuate them. I will also admit that cell-shading isn't always my thing, because it sometimes comes off as too simple when there aren't a lot of shades being used.

And I'm not sure if the slight fuzziness is intended or a result of the file save. I'm also seeing some color banding that normally shows up with gif files, even though it's a jpg. That's why I'm wondering about the fuzzy edges.

the negative comments just show how ppl at mh understand art, its annoying to see really, esp coming from artists who aren't exactly accomplished.
i'd love to hear what you think could make it better!

as for myself, i think its great in terms of lighting and palette, and the little shine details look really neat. there is no one at this forum able to compete with you at cellshading. admittedly, it's not your best work, but calling it your worst is just unintelligent.

I'd like to address the first part of this comment. Ability to critique (aka "know what you like") =/= ability to produce art. There is no correlation between being able to produce art of a certain level and having the ability to provide a good critique of other's works. I learned that at college in art school, having to go through the fine arts reviews with the "real artists" aka painters who though a degree in illustration was selling out. Sometimes you just know that you like something or don't, or don't think it's an artist's best work, but being able to explain why, or being able to produce work of a similar quality shouldn't affect that critique.

OTOH, few people are taught how to give effective critiques and how to accept them without becoming defensive. Sorry, DD, but your self-defense makes you come off as a bit of a jerk when you put down the others who imitate or try copying what you do. What they're doing isn't necessarily the best way of learning to improve, but you essentially saying they suck for trying to copy you isn't good form either.

One thing I've noticed here on MH is almost no one ever gives negative critiques. Everyone is always "Nice job!" or "good one!" even when the art is, yes, obviously sub-par or complete crap. People get upset if you say anything negative. In fact, I gave some pointers for why I thought a piece wasn't working once, and another poster after me basically said "don't pay any attention to the naysayers". Considering I was the only one who'd said anything other than "great!" it was obviously directed at me. It's alright to say "this isn't good" or "it's not working" or "something isn't right" and not be mean about it, and you shouldn't be made to feel that you did something wrong for not being all over a piece of art.

Now, if you are going to give a negative critique, you should offer up why you feel that way and what isn't working for you, since the artist can't necessarily change something if they don't know what that something is. I had someone point out something about one of my pieces once (he said the jawline of a female character looked too masculine). I couldn't see it, but after several other people all pointed out the same thing, I had to admit that they were seeing something I wasn't, so I reworked that area to improve it. Point being, artists are sometimes too close to a piece and can't always see what's "wrong" with it until someone else says "hey, this isn't working for this reason".

All that being said (and I apologize for the hijack, but the opportunity was there to point some things out), I did try to follow my own advice above when I offered a critique. Something else perhaps, DD's works usually seem to be brighter, IIRC, so this one being so dark and with a more muted palette could be another factor in why it's not working for me.

 

[lee-nus]

I'd like to address the first part of this comment. Ability to critique (aka "know what you like") =/= ability to produce art. There is no correlation between being able to produce art of a certain level and having the ability to provide a good critique of other's works.

im not disapproving of this, nor did i write anything to imply this. what i meant was simply that it was being negatively critiqued by some who, as i said, barely know the first thing about art.

also, i did mention that i would like to hear those artists' opinions on how to improve it.

im not sure you are really arguing against me here, or just clarifying something, but i thought i'd at least make my point. i think its great this forum is actually getting some discussion, and i hope that it will open some eyes around the art forum.

peace y'all

 

[RhyssaFireheart]

im not disapproving of this, nor did i write anything to imply this. what i meant was simply that it was being negatively critiqued by some who, as i said, barely know the first thing about art.

also, i did mention that i would like to hear those artists' opinions on how to improve it.

im not sure you are really arguing against me here, or just clarifying something, but i thought i'd at least make my point. i think its great this forum is actually getting some discussion, and i hope that it will open some eyes around the art forum.

peace y'all

More clarifying is all. So many people think that if you can't produce above average or excellent work yourself, you have no right to critique someone else who is better/worse. At first glance, when you said the ones being negative can't match up to DD's level, you seemed to imply that they didn't have to right to say anything negative about DD. But yes, they didn't take the extra step of saying why they thought it was bad ("worst ever" was really an over-exaggeration) or didn't work for them.

It's always a good thing to have discussion about artwork, IMO.

 

[- aMt -]

Ahaha, I am glad that on softshade is not as easy to copy, even with the same light source, the work tends to be quite different.

Sometimes, I have also used as a basis for my work, a work on cellshade. The work itself was completely different (and better XD).

DD always does a great job when it comes to choosing the source of light. But if he chose a common source of light, I would not be so different that all work in cellshade I have seen.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Jaime F.]

Good to see you back here Dynamic Dragon. As for my opinion about your new coloring, I like it. Perhaps it's not your best work, but it still looks very good to me, and I even saved it. As for what you said in post #37, I agree with the 1st part, but I think you could of handled the second part in a better way. It's okay to admire an artist, but it's usually best to treat that artist like a normal person.

As for Lee_nus, and RhyssaFireheart, both of you have good points that I can understand. I'll explain myself better, but let please let me address something 1st. This is for everyone here, so please don't take it personally. Debating your opinions in this section, is definitely okay. Just remember to be as polite as possible, and try not to make it lengthy. Insults aren't necessary to get your point across, and I'm sure the artists that post their art here, would rather read something about their art instead. If someone takes it to far, send me, or another mod a personal message, and we'll do what we can.

Alright, now for some other things. I'll start with RhyssaFireheart's criticism of the over abundance of "good job messages" here. I kind of agree, the majority of the messages here are very positive, and polite. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, but at the same time, if someone honestly see's something they dislike, they should feel free to honestly express their opinion. If you don't like an artist's coloring, it's okay to say so politely, but try to explain why, and try to give them some useful advice as well.

As for your point Lee_nus, I totally understand it. At the same time, RhyssaFireheart has a good point to. I'll use music as an example. I've been playing music for a very long time, and because of this, a lot of my friends want to know my opinions about music. Whether it's about a band, or certain song, because I know how to compose music, they often trust, and value my opinions. At the same time, I don't expect them to change their opinion if I disagree. When it comes to art, even if an art piece meets a pro-artist's standards of what makes good art, it doesn't mean that everyone will consider it good art. Everyone has different standards, and they like different things. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me, even though Yngvie Malmsteen can play guitar faster than Jimi Hendrix, it doesn't make him a better artist, songwriter, or guitarist. It all depends on what you personally think makes good art, or music. When it comes to music, I personally value feeling, over technical ability. So when I listen to new a new song, and can't detect any emotion at all, I usually won't like it. Well anyways, I hope I made my point's in an efficient, and polite enough way.

 

[Omri645]

I know why he looks so angry!!! xD
it's because the shadow of the eye...
beneath the eyebrow...in both eyes
can you try a version without this shadow?

 

[nat]

the negative comments just show how ppl at mh understand art, its annoying to see really, esp coming from artists who aren't exactly accomplished.
i'd love to hear what you think could make it better!

as for myself, i think its great in terms of lighting and palette, and the little shine details look really neat. there is no one at this forum able to compete with you at cellshading. admittedly, it's not your best work, but calling it your worst is just unintelligent.

It's not negative criticism, Lee. Given, Ziaja should have elaborated more on what he thought didn't work. but an opinions are free (or should be at least).

It's just DD could do better. All the colors I've seen from him were prodigious and clearly done by a pro, whether cell, soft or painting. Even less complicated panels had something that made them stand out from the rest. But this one is simply good, by DD's standard that's not the best work, I have to agree with Ziaja....
I'm not a genius artist, hell I'm not even good, but I have eyes and can decide for my self. So can everyone else^^

Besides, feedback should be allowed to everyone. It's sad when people start saying, "people who can't draw or color well shouldn't comment other than (good job)".

Nothing against you Lee, you know how much I like you and your work ....


@ DD, since it's his thread. It's good to see new work from you. A bit simple for your own standard but good nonetheless, and hope to see more.


Edit: Off topic, this is the first sign of artist discussion thread on this forum....highly interesting.

 

[lee-nus]

It's not negative criticism, Lee. Given, Ziaja should have elaborated more on what he thought didn't work. but an opinions are free (or should be at least).

i dont mind you having another opinion of course. and i didnt say anything about criticism, i called it a negative comment.
if there's anything i wanna see more of on this forum, its criticism. however, criticism requires actual thinking compared to "it's bad", "i don't like it", "this is your worst work", and so forth. that is just downputting and constructive in no way. this forum is flooding with comments like that, and no one is putting any effort in whatsoever to give actual constructive critique. which is sad, of course.

 

[nat]

True I guess. Since enforcing that notion doesn't happen through rules, people don't feel the need to write more than 4 words....Sad but true...It probably needs some stricter rules, or something.
I think it's a bit different in other forums .

 

[goldenhans]

Great job RC!!

True I guess. Since enforcing that notion doesn't happen through rules, people don't feel the need to write more than 4 words....Sad but true...It probably needs some stricter rules, or something.
I think it's a bit different in other forums .

And if to it we add that some (I include myself) only we speak Spanish is more difficult to give a coherent critique

 

[nat]

yes, but even simple sentences are more than enough.
No need for difficult words, aMt imo has the most trouble with English yet he makes critics from time to time ^^.

 

[DarkFlameDragon]

hey guys i think we should stop arguing because some mod could close this thread because of that and i don't think DD deserves that

 

[- aMt -]

@nat -

hahah, my English is really bad. Language is no excuse when you are on the internet.

(My inglishis bad x_x'', and understand all this.) suahsuha


@DarkFlameDragon -

I do not think it will happen, we are only discussing a healthy way.