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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]15410[/split]
Shounen History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi by Matsuena Syun
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History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout
History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
Genre: Action, Martial Arts
Mangaka: Matsuena Syun
Serialized In: Shounen Sunday
Publisher: Shogakukan
Shirahama Kenichi is a book lover who has just entered high school, but he is often bullied by others. One day, he became good friends with the new transfer student, Fuurinji Miu, who was also looking for a friend. Kenichi was shocked at how powerful she is at first, but he is still somehow attracted to her...
History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
Genre: Action, Martial Arts
Mangaka: Matsuena Syun
Serialized In: Shounen Sunday
Publisher: Shogakukan
Shirahama Kenichi is a book lover who has just entered high school, but he is often bullied by others. One day, he became good friends with the new transfer student, Fuurinji Miu, who was also looking for a friend. Kenichi was shocked at how powerful she is at first, but he is still somehow attracted to her...
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout
Recently I have been wondering about what exactly it means to be master class. Obviously it is about being extremely strong but is it something reached after surpassing a specific power level or is it some sort of special condition which is not limited to power level? So far master class enemies have come in a wide range of power levels and are instantly identifiable so it seems a little strange. Is it like saying anyone with a powerlevel of 9000(lol) and over is master class and thosr with 8999 and below are below master class? Or perhaps at some point during training there is a rather sudden change in the quality of the ki or something? Kano shou was said to have a master class body and even ki at some point (not sure about the ki) but we know he could not fight beyond the disciple class level. Whats the deal here?
Recently I have been wondering about what exactly it means to be master class. Obviously it is about being extremely strong but is it something reached after surpassing a specific power level or is it some sort of special condition which is not limited to power level? So far master class enemies have come in a wide range of power levels and are instantly identifiable so it seems a little strange. Is it like saying anyone with a powerlevel of 9000(lol) and over is master class and thosr with 8999 and below are below master class? Or perhaps at some point during training there is a rather sudden change in the quality of the ki or something? Kano shou was said to have a master class body and even ki at some point (not sure about the ki) but we know he could not fight beyond the disciple class level. Whats the deal here?
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout - Part 1
As of now we don't have a definitive number to Kensei's own Yomi group, Atlanti is Rimi's code name for Yomi, but is that her code name as an addition to the actual Yomi or just Kensei's personal sub-branch of new Yomi members?
All we have seen is the silhouette of 3 people, one being Rimi.
As of now we don't have a definitive number to Kensei's own Yomi group, Atlanti is Rimi's code name for Yomi, but is that her code name as an addition to the actual Yomi or just Kensei's personal sub-branch of new Yomi members?
All we have seen is the silhouette of 3 people, one being Rimi.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout
Being a master probably has something to do powerlevels like you said lol, except that when you're at that 8999, that one more is a hell of a leap to 9000. Even going from 6000 to, say, 6200 probably takes ridiculous amount of training.
IIRC, Kano Shou was on a clear path of being a master, because only when he had some kind of adrenaline rush was the "body that masters have" commented on, so its not like he actually had a master class body/physiology.
Being a master probably has something to do powerlevels like you said lol, except that when you're at that 8999, that one more is a hell of a leap to 9000. Even going from 6000 to, say, 6200 probably takes ridiculous amount of training.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
I don't think it was only the adrenalin rush though. I thought that what was analized was the workings of kano's body which were seemingly similar to those of someone who had attained master class. I think his ki was mentioned to be master class too (even if kano was evidently not master class). Whether it was the adrenaline or not, it still shows there is something else to being master class. It's even worst if it was the adrenaline since it would show there is a perfectly clearly defined line that makes up the master class. Heck, there is suppose to be a reasonably large gap between those above the disciple class and below the master class(that much was stated in the manga).
Even if it requires consistently more training to grow stronger at a point I still find the situation strange. Why would going from 8999 to 9000 be more of an increase in power than going from 8998 to 8999? Either way, it is just one unit of increased power.
Anyways, I noticed this seemed to not cause discussion.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/history_s_strongest_disciple_kenichi/v43/c417/4.html
In here miu has a few thoughts regarding kano. It makes sense for miu to have had feelings for kano, after all the two of them had stuff in common to say the least but I find it strange that kano would be a driving force for both kenichi and miu even up to now. Is there a chance kano could possibly be alive? He is probably the most influential and comparatively strongest enemy kenichi has ever fought and defeated (except perhaps for the glass guy he had a short sparring match with) but it is still kinda weird... Could there be a chance in hell kano is alive? We technically saw him dying right afterwards kenichi blacked out and kano was aledgedly taken by the good guys. Kano was a reasonably strong martial artists, dying from a few gunshots is not realistic based on what we have seen on the manga. Kenichi has been brought back from a few worst situations by akisame too, considering the blackout it is possible kano was revived by akisame or kensei. It'd be interesting if kano is alive and the timing to bring him back would be perfect now since kenichi has actually made some (exceedingly slow) progress with miu.
I don't think it was only the adrenalin rush though. I thought that what was analized was the workings of kano's body which were seemingly similar to those of someone who had attained master class. I think his ki was mentioned to be master class too (even if kano was evidently not master class). Whether it was the adrenaline or not, it still shows there is something else to being master class. It's even worst if it was the adrenaline since it would show there is a perfectly clearly defined line that makes up the master class. Heck, there is suppose to be a reasonably large gap between those above the disciple class and below the master class(that much was stated in the manga).
Even if it requires consistently more training to grow stronger at a point I still find the situation strange. Why would going from 8999 to 9000 be more of an increase in power than going from 8998 to 8999? Either way, it is just one unit of increased power.
Anyways, I noticed this seemed to not cause discussion.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/history_s_strongest_disciple_kenichi/v43/c417/4.html
In here miu has a few thoughts regarding kano. It makes sense for miu to have had feelings for kano, after all the two of them had stuff in common to say the least but I find it strange that kano would be a driving force for both kenichi and miu even up to now. Is there a chance kano could possibly be alive? He is probably the most influential and comparatively strongest enemy kenichi has ever fought and defeated (except perhaps for the glass guy he had a short sparring match with) but it is still kinda weird... Could there be a chance in hell kano is alive? We technically saw him dying right afterwards kenichi blacked out and kano was aledgedly taken by the good guys. Kano was a reasonably strong martial artists, dying from a few gunshots is not realistic based on what we have seen on the manga. Kenichi has been brought back from a few worst situations by akisame too, considering the blackout it is possible kano was revived by akisame or kensei. It'd be interesting if kano is alive and the timing to bring him back would be perfect now since kenichi has actually made some (exceedingly slow) progress with miu.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
It may be one unit but to increase your reaction time and judgment to the absolute top you need to shave away all useless movement, you might say it's one unit from 8999 to 9000 but isn't it a lot easier to shave away useless movement from 1 to 2? it's basicaly the difference between incredible skill and sheer perfection
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
But master level is not sheer perfection. Most master level we have seen are largely fodder to the ryozampaku guys. Heck, sougetsu was defeated by kensei and he still made fodder of the hordes of masters fortuna hired. The master zasaki recently defeated was said to have an incomparably larger ki than fortuna and sasaki still defeated him after pointing out where his wound was and in the way he was not supposed to fight without making so much of a semblance of effort. Basically, the master who was fodder compared to a master who was fodder to kakashi was by all intents and purposes a master.
But master level is not sheer perfection. Most master level we have seen are largely fodder to the ryozampaku guys. Heck, sougetsu was defeated by kensei and he still made fodder of the hordes of masters fortuna hired. The master zasaki recently defeated was said to have an incomparably larger ki than fortuna and sasaki still defeated him after pointing out where his wound was and in the way he was not supposed to fight without making so much of a semblance of effort. Basically, the master who was fodder compared to a master who was fodder to kakashi was by all intents and purposes a master.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
For one thing, it's Sakaki and ryuzampaku masters have long since surpassed human standards, especially Sakaki-sensei. Even if you have managed to perfect your movements there's always room for improvement by learning more techniques, developing your own techniques and finally gathering as much combat experience as possible, in that department Sakaki shines the most, he is able to make split second decisions about using his suroundings (such as the metal floor tiles of a helicopter or just accorns) and any idiocrasies in his opponent's movements (the spear guy) or even appearance (we all remember the epic beard throw). Sakaki has shown his ability to come up with great strategies in a moment since the early chapters when he picked up the perfect counter strategy to fight tsukuba by instantly realizing he was a sports fighter (yamazuki). In a way he is comparable to Yamamoto Naoki-kun from when the masters tried to incorporate tactics to their thick headed disciple. Even despite Sakaki's extremely adaptable fighting style that always has the advantage despite the territory Sakaki boasts one more incredible weapon at his disposal, that is simply his Dou ki. If a Sei fighter is an armed strategist then a Dou fighter is a wild beast, their attacks are most of the time faster than you can block and stronger than you can take. Though Sei and Dou have been shown to be equal and probably are that doesn't in the slightest change the fact that a Dou fighter can beat you in one hit that you might not even be able to see should they overpower your seikuken, they are faster stronger and tougher than you, should they also have more experience than you like Sakaki has they can crush you with just sheer force like Sakaki has done to Chris and the polititian or Apachai to Kei Retsumin; once they got angry they crushed their opponents like a lion would crush a mouse with nothing more than speed and power. Considering the deadly combination of Sakaki-sensei's ingenious tactical abilities of using anything and everything around him as a weapon even attacking mental blind spots when the opponent would thinkk he is safe (again the beard) with the fact that he is simply stronger and faster and can beat you by finding even a single opening (which seems to be incrediby easy for him thanks to his tactical genius) along with his deep knowledge over every technique of his art that he has shown time and again with the forgoten techniques he has taught or at least attempted to teach to Kenichi such as yamazuki, gamaku, shirahanagashi and the breathing technique to hide your internal organs in your ribcage (which he has taught to kenichi as is told way back in kenichi's fight against Loki when Honoka has held hostage). All in all even if you did get to 9000, manage to get rid of any wasted movements and become a master there's still room for improvement.
For one thing, it's Sakaki and ryuzampaku masters have long since surpassed human standards, especially Sakaki-sensei. Even if you have managed to perfect your movements there's always room for improvement by learning more techniques, developing your own techniques and finally gathering as much combat experience as possible, in that department Sakaki shines the most, he is able to make split second decisions about using his suroundings (such as the metal floor tiles of a helicopter or just accorns) and any idiocrasies in his opponent's movements (the spear guy) or even appearance (we all remember the epic beard throw). Sakaki has shown his ability to come up with great strategies in a moment since the early chapters when he picked up the perfect counter strategy to fight tsukuba by instantly realizing he was a sports fighter (yamazuki). In a way he is comparable to Yamamoto Naoki-kun from when the masters tried to incorporate tactics to their thick headed disciple. Even despite Sakaki's extremely adaptable fighting style that always has the advantage despite the territory Sakaki boasts one more incredible weapon at his disposal, that is simply his Dou ki. If a Sei fighter is an armed strategist then a Dou fighter is a wild beast, their attacks are most of the time faster than you can block and stronger than you can take. Though Sei and Dou have been shown to be equal and probably are that doesn't in the slightest change the fact that a Dou fighter can beat you in one hit that you might not even be able to see should they overpower your seikuken, they are faster stronger and tougher than you, should they also have more experience than you like Sakaki has they can crush you with just sheer force like Sakaki has done to Chris and the polititian or Apachai to Kei Retsumin; once they got angry they crushed their opponents like a lion would crush a mouse with nothing more than speed and power. Considering the deadly combination of Sakaki-sensei's ingenious tactical abilities of using anything and everything around him as a weapon even attacking mental blind spots when the opponent would thinkk he is safe (again the beard) with the fact that he is simply stronger and faster and can beat you by finding even a single opening (which seems to be incrediby easy for him thanks to his tactical genius) along with his deep knowledge over every technique of his art that he has shown time and again with the forgoten techniques he has taught or at least attempted to teach to Kenichi such as yamazuki, gamaku, shirahanagashi and the breathing technique to hide your internal organs in your ribcage (which he has taught to kenichi as is told way back in kenichi's fight against Loki when Honoka has held hostage). All in all even if you did get to 9000, manage to get rid of any wasted movements and become a master there's still room for improvement.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Jesus, walls of text are bad for the eyes.
But anyway, I agree that going from a power of 1 to 2 and a power of 8999 to 9000 is a huge, HUGE difference, and once you reach that level, you reach the point where you can be called a master.
Jesus, walls of text are bad for the eyes.
But anyway, I agree that going from a power of 1 to 2 and a power of 8999 to 9000 is a huge, HUGE difference, and once you reach that level, you reach the point where you can be called a master.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Well, who really decides when you become a master?
1. Disciple level.
You start out here being trained by a master. Presumably you study until you've learned all that you can from the master, then you graduate to the next stage...
2. Expert level.
We haven't seen many of these. Tanaka Tsutomu (glasses guy) is the only one I can recall of anyway. "Above Disciple class but still not a master." Presumably, this level is where the disciple has learned all that the master can teach then goes out to learn on their own.
3. Master level. We don't really know what defines this level yet, but presumably you need to be able to beat or match a master in single combat. This level seems to vary quite a bit from fodder masters up to Ryozampaku's level.
****************** OMG *********************
I just realized something from trying to sort out my thoughts on this...
Kenichi's masters keep telling him Don't Fight Masters!
It's not just because he can't beat them... Some of the fodder masters are still masters so that means he will get re-classified as a master and be fair game for Yami masters if he wins.
Well, who really decides when you become a master?
1. Disciple level.
You start out here being trained by a master. Presumably you study until you've learned all that you can from the master, then you graduate to the next stage...
2. Expert level.
We haven't seen many of these. Tanaka Tsutomu (glasses guy) is the only one I can recall of anyway. "Above Disciple class but still not a master." Presumably, this level is where the disciple has learned all that the master can teach then goes out to learn on their own.
3. Master level. We don't really know what defines this level yet, but presumably you need to be able to beat or match a master in single combat. This level seems to vary quite a bit from fodder masters up to Ryozampaku's level.
****************** OMG *********************
I just realized something from trying to sort out my thoughts on this...
Kenichi's masters keep telling him Don't Fight Masters!
It's not just because he can't beat them... Some of the fodder masters are still masters so that means he will get re-classified as a master and be fair game for Yami masters if he wins.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
That is exactly my point.... it has to be a ki thing for the most part but the manga does imply there are specific requirements and a specific level which has to be met for someone to be there. Could it be the amount of ki? Perhaps the quality of it?
You do bring a good point although there would still be the age issue. Kenichi is a kid and for the most part in the age group as yomi. Even if kenichi had master class power right now, would yami actually send masters to deal with him? Besides, yami does not seem to want to win that way. If winning against masters was the victory yami wanted then they would have attacked ryozampaku directly to begin with right? The disciple battle is a bit of a pride issue as well. I think there also is an age thing to consider for the disciple class. Tsutomi was supposedly close to the master class and even then he was allowed to participate in the DoD tournament even when the tournament was aimed for disciple class fighters. Overall, I don't think being master class would mean kenichi will have to fight the masters of yami considering what we have seen. If kenichi has master class and defeats the yomi members then perhaps he would be considered to be attacked by masters but that is still quite far away. Heck, lets consider chikage. She is what, 10? She probably will have master class by the time she is kenichi's age (even if only as strong as fortuna, the weakest master we have seen so far).
That is exactly my point.... it has to be a ki thing for the most part but the manga does imply there are specific requirements and a specific level which has to be met for someone to be there. Could it be the amount of ki? Perhaps the quality of it?
You do bring a good point although there would still be the age issue. Kenichi is a kid and for the most part in the age group as yomi. Even if kenichi had master class power right now, would yami actually send masters to deal with him? Besides, yami does not seem to want to win that way. If winning against masters was the victory yami wanted then they would have attacked ryozampaku directly to begin with right? The disciple battle is a bit of a pride issue as well. I think there also is an age thing to consider for the disciple class. Tsutomi was supposedly close to the master class and even then he was allowed to participate in the DoD tournament even when the tournament was aimed for disciple class fighters. Overall, I don't think being master class would mean kenichi will have to fight the masters of yami considering what we have seen. If kenichi has master class and defeats the yomi members then perhaps he would be considered to be attacked by masters but that is still quite far away. Heck, lets consider chikage. She is what, 10? She probably will have master class by the time she is kenichi's age (even if only as strong as fortuna, the weakest master we have seen so far).
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
To Wowsers, I'm glad you brought up Tsutomu because he has to be making an appearance some time, maybe to save Kenichi one time. He wanted to see Ogata, back in the DofD arc. So I'm anxiously awaiting his return.
And your point about Kenichi fighting masters is because he would be killed fighting one. The politician master would have killed all of the group if it wasn't for Sakaki's Acorn Magnum. Kenichi cannot win against any master class.
And any Yami member would never fight Kenichi. The whole point is to have their own disciple be called "The Strongest" and the only way that happens is if their disciple wins. Yami might be the "killing fist" but masters don't intervene in the disciple fights.
To Wowsers, I'm glad you brought up Tsutomu because he has to be making an appearance some time, maybe to save Kenichi one time. He wanted to see Ogata, back in the DofD arc. So I'm anxiously awaiting his return.
And your point about Kenichi fighting masters is because he would be killed fighting one. The politician master would have killed all of the group if it wasn't for Sakaki's Acorn Magnum. Kenichi cannot win against any master class.
And any Yami member would never fight Kenichi. The whole point is to have their own disciple be called "The Strongest" and the only way that happens is if their disciple wins. Yami might be the "killing fist" but masters don't intervene in the disciple fights.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
but that pride seems to be missing from the weapons faction
but that pride seems to be missing from the weapons faction
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Oh, and I was reading the Apachai-Agaard/Kenichi-Koukin battle and it reaffirmed my belief. Miu is above/on par with Kenichi, right?
She used all of her power to attack Sakaki and he blocked it with his pinky.
The Ryouzanpaku masters and rest of Yami are all beast-level masters. Kenichi has years to go.
Oh, and I was reading the Apachai-Agaard/Kenichi-Koukin battle and it reaffirmed my belief. Miu is above/on par with Kenichi, right?
She used all of her power to attack Sakaki and he blocked it with his pinky.
The Ryouzanpaku masters and rest of Yami are all beast-level masters. Kenichi has years to go.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Are you kidding? Kenichi could be a mid-high level master as he would still have the crap beat out of him by the ryozampaku guys and a few yami members. Kenichi has only recently even begun to catch up to miu, I don't think he would win in a fight just yet. In the best case scenario for him he has the same skill as miu but I would think that is a bit of a stretch considering miu rarely gets a chance to fight seriously and keeps getting stronger.
Are you kidding? Kenichi could be a mid-high level master as he would still have the crap beat out of him by the ryozampaku guys and a few yami members. Kenichi has only recently even begun to catch up to miu, I don't think he would win in a fight just yet. In the best case scenario for him he has the same skill as miu but I would think that is a bit of a stretch considering miu rarely gets a chance to fight seriously and keeps getting stronger.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
We have yet to see Miu go all out, keep that in mind.
Each time she gets "serious" she is even more impressive than the last time. We all knew she was fast, and then this last arc she just blew us away with just how fast she really is.
Plus this current arc should give us a good indication of just how strong she really is, since it is an arc about Miu's genetics and upbringing.
We have yet to see Miu go all out, keep that in mind.
Each time she gets "serious" she is even more impressive than the last time. We all knew she was fast, and then this last arc she just blew us away with just how fast she really is.
Plus this current arc should give us a good indication of just how strong she really is, since it is an arc about Miu's genetics and upbringing.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
I do hope Miu will get all-out this arc.
And thus we'll see the level that Kenichi need to surpass to be able to protect Miu from threats.
Also I can see in the ned of the manga the birth of new Kuremisago.)
I do hope Miu will get all-out this arc.
And thus we'll see the level that Kenichi need to surpass to be able to protect Miu from threats.Also I can see in the ned of the manga the birth of new Kuremisago.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Kenichi will possibly never get stronger than Miu.
BECAUSE one of the master said that while "you" are getting stronger "your enemy or rival" is also training to get stronger.
Kenichi will possibly never get stronger than Miu.
BECAUSE one of the master said that while "you" are getting stronger "your enemy or rival" is also training to get stronger.
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Re: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Hangout 2
Yes, there is a posibility of it, but Kenichi is the main hero of this manga and his goal is to be abler to protect Miu and those dear to him, so I hope he will surpass Miu at some point.
Yes, there is a posibility of it, but Kenichi is the main hero of this manga and his goal is to be abler to protect Miu and those dear to him, so I hope he will surpass Miu at some point.