Dumas vs Yama (Post powerup) + Kallavan + Current Baam

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

--Can the trio of current baam , yama and Kallavan beat Dumas?

--V is not allowed to take over baam.

 

[arrowofsky]

A serious Dumas would one shot Baam or Yama. The only way to move forward would be Kallavan being a dedicated tank while Baam does some stuff and Yama and Kallavan make some critical attack attempts simultaneously. If only Baam had to know Remote Reverse Flow...and yeah, Baam may also utilize Black March but again, from afar.
Honestly, if not for the excellent performance of Baam against Dumas, I would just say no. But now, I see some possibility like 30 %.

 

[Demonspeed]

Proust dying without notable feats and Yama being a punching bad don't help but they should be rather close to Dumas's level. So Yama's team can probably win with Baam and Kallavan's support.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

Kallavan wins alone.

 

[Demonspeed]

Kallavan wins alone.

You can't be serious...

 

[Jackjohsnon]

You can't be serious...

Dumas would power up Kallavan with his spears and purple energy. It's inevitable.

 

[VON]

Team wins.

yama and kallavan should be good enough support for current Bam to defeat him. His dps is more than enough, those two should provide opportunities for Bam to snipe down Dumas’ real body.

 

[arrowofsky]

Dumas would power up Kallavan with his spears and purple energy. It's inevitable.

Yeah there was also that bs thing... lyborick might have been a really cool side villain if he was not bsed that pathetically.

 

[maverickframe_19]

The team wins. Kallavan and Yama can hold damage, you know.

 

[kkck]

It's hard to say where kallavan stands since his new powerup... I am not too sold on the idea of him being much of a threat to dumas. Yama at least evidenced enough power to impress proust, he may be in dumas' tier. Bam impressed dumas but there's the consideration that bam fought a nerfed dumas that ended up giving him a pass. I could see the group giving dumas trouble though I am not confident that it survives once he goes full power and ignites his carrier.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I would bet on the team.

Despite not being that comparable to Dumas, Leviathan Baam still showed the capacity to injure him, keep up to some extent, and annoy him. This is also when Baam wasn't in his most optimal state (Dumas commented on Baam's injuries at the start of their 2nd fight in the heart chamber; unless the power-up healed them completely, those should've still been there at that point).

Current Yama and Kallavan are both much stronger than CC Tier fighters, with Base Yama already showing the capacity to easily break the barrier of one of the Tower's top tier Light-Bearers (and #2 in the PB Family) in Base. Transformed he should be much stronger. No doubt his offensive is something that Dumas wouldn't be able to take too lightly. As for Kallavan, the dude is a tank. His durability was already much stronger than those around his tier before the power-up. After the power-up, I imagine he's levels above that (with his other stats also being a level above).

Kallavan could be the tank, while Baam and Yama are the primary damage dealers. I imagine they'd be able to suppress the armor quite easily. Afterward, Dumas invites them inside as he did with the Baam/Khun/Rak trio, or they forcefully get inside with the spatial manipulation of Baam's 2nd Thorn. The fight would be more difficult since the real Dumas is much stronger, but I imagine they'd eventually prevail.

Somewhere around Mid-High Diff for the trio. It won't be a cakewalk, but they have the tools to win without being pushed to the extreme IMO.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

Team loses.

Dumas's real strength is estimated to be somewhere around Adult Data Zahard and 10% Urek in the FOD by Baam.


If with wank let's say current Baam alone was in the range of 6% maybe 7% at the absolute highest then Kallavan shoubld be around 4% and and Yama is around 3%.

Yama is worthless and one shot material no matter how you wank him and Kallavan's durability holds little water in front of Dumas so he can't even serve his role as a tank well cause he's getting broken in half.

This team is worthless to Baam, he'll still end up fighting alone against Dumas.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Dumas's real strength is estimated to be somewhere around Adult Data Zahard and 10% Urek in the FOD by Baam.

Actually, only the Rosario Ignition is stated to be close to that level. Dumas himself doesn't compare.

That said, I do agree that it's gonna be hard for amped Kallavan to properly do the paper of a tank if he has to eat that shit head-on. Yama and Baam could probably help mitigate that power with their offensive, but it wouldn't be easy.

Yama is worthless and one shot material no matter how you wank him

The current Yama showed enough power to impress Proust in Base, easily breaking through the barrier that withstood Robadon's Primal Punch and Gran Abuelo attacks.

For all it's worth, Proust is stated to be one of the Tower's highest-tier Light-Bearers and also ranks higher than Dumas in the PB Army (which isn't to say he's necessarily as strong or stronger, but he shouldn't be fodder to Dumas).

I don't have Yama on Dumas' level, but it's a hard sell that he's one-shot fodder after all the portrayal he got.

 

[arrowofsky]

Actually, only the Rosario Ignition is stated to be close to that level. Dumas himself doesn't compare.

That said, I do agree that it's gonna be hard for amped Kallavan to properly do the paper of a tank if he has to eat that shit head-on. Yama and Baam could probably help mitigate that power with their offensive, but it wouldn't be easy.



The current Yama showed enough power to impress Proust in Base, easily breaking through the barrier that withstood Robadon's Primal Punch and Gran Abuelo attacks.

For all it's worth, Proust is stated to be one of the Tower's highest-tier Light-Bearers and also ranks higher than Dumas in the PB Army (which isn't to say he's necessarily as strong or stronger, but he shouldn't be fodder to Dumas).

I don't have Yama on Dumas' level, but it's a hard sell that he's one-shot fodder after all the portrayal he got.

But you did see how Dumas just hit once to Yama, Karaka, Ha Jinsung without the killing intent and they were in agony, right? It was also discussed that Proust's light house barrier was better against ranged attacks, but may be weaker against direct hits. These facts/opinions prevent me from believing Yama is a real deal for Dumas.

 

[maverickframe_19]

But you did see how Dumas just hit once to Yama, Karaka, Ha Jinsung without the killing intent and they were in agony, right? It was also discussed that Proust's light house barrier was better against ranged attacks, but may be weaker against direct hits. These facts/opinions prevent me from believing Yama is a real deal for Dumas.

You know what in hindsight, Dumas might just kick their ass if he were bloodlusted.

 

[Shadowlord123]

But you did see how Dumas just hit once to Yama, Karaka, Ha Jinsung without the killing intent and they were in agony, right? It was also discussed that Proust's light house barrier was better against ranged attacks, but may be weaker against direct hits. These facts/opinions prevent me from believing Yama is a real deal for Dumas.

Two things:

1. Yama got a big power-up between his fight against Dumas and the war at the Sprout.
2. The previous version of Yama that fought Dumas was severely nerfed. So nerfed that he could plausibly get his ass beat by a non-top BH (his hits didn't even make armored Dumas flinch, whereas the hits of Tump's elephant were fucking armored Dumas over).

Generally, the Yama at the Sprout war is levels above the Yama that fought Dumas. You can't compare them whatsoever.

Fair enough with the Light-house point. It was mentioned that even someone like Evankhell could have trouble killing Elpathion from a distance and she needed to get close to guarantee a one-shot. Still, it doesn't change the fact that someone of Proust's caliber was impressed by the amount of power that current Yama showed in Base. He gets much stronger when transformed too.

 

[arrowofsky]

Two things:

1. Yama got a big power-up between his fight against Dumas and the war at the Sprout.
2. The previous version of Yama that fought Dumas was severely nerfed. So nerfed that he could plausibly get his ass beat by a non-top BH (his hits didn't even make armored Dumas flinch, whereas the hits of Tump's elephant were fucking armored Dumas over).

Generally, the Yama at the Sprout war is levels above the Yama that fought Dumas. You can't compare them whatsoever.

Fair enough with the Light-house point. It was mentioned that even someone like Evankhell could have trouble killing Elpathion from a distance and she needed to get close to guarantee a one-shot. Still, it doesn't change the fact that someone of Proust's caliber was impressed by the amount of power that current Yama showed in Base. He gets much stronger when transformed too.

1. He did had a power up but I am not sure about how much. I was also expecting him to gain immense power after getting a fang from Doom, but the only thing changed was that he was not dead afraid while fighting Yasratcha. Afaik, we never had a metric for his power up like now he can full transform for 3 times longer. Could you give me an indication of its power up significance quantiatively? (Other than "Yeaah, I slept really well on Yasratcha drawn pillow" )

2. What I see in this chapter https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-192/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=610 is that Dumas was missing arms and attacked simultaneously by two BHs together in a good teamwork. It was definitely much more than getting fucked up with an elephant, man. Only Traumerei and Ha Jinsung damaged Dumas' armor significantly, and the latter did not really change anything. And if we are to consider full transform Yama we should also consider purple Dumas.

I also don't see the point of Yama getting stronger and have some story while his relevance is absent anymore. Almost no nest, and his target of slaying, Traumerei, is dead already. We can expect a Robadon vs Dumas after their brief stare, while Yama was just whipped back and forth. Not only it remains to be seen whether Yama got that powerful, it is also a bit irrelevant and pointless for him to do so.

 

[Shadowlord123]

1. He did had a power up but I am not sure about how much. I was also expecting him to gain immense power after getting a fang from Doom, but the only thing changed was that he was not dead afraid while fighting Yasratcha. Afaik, we never had a metric for his power up like now he can full transform for 3 times longer. Could you give me an indication of its power up significance quantiatively? (Other than "Yeaah, I slept really well on Yasratcha drawn pillow" )

Aside from the Proust feat, he withstood an attack from the Shinwonryu ship without much trouble and with no damage. The same attack destroyed a big chunk of Gran Abuelo and impressed Robadon. Worth noting that Abuelo can withstand Haetae's flames.

Even lowballing, current base Yama wouldn't get less than CC Tier. CC Tier at least (likely higher) while effectively using nothing of his actual arsenal (no 7 levels of PT, External Transformation, Full Transformation, etc). The past Yama was only CC Tier when using everything. That proves the power-up he got was big.

2. What I see in this chapter https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-192/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=610 is that Dumas was missing arms and attacked simultaneously by two BHs together in a good teamwork. It was definitely much more than getting fucked up with an elephant, man. Only Traumerei and Ha Jinsung damaged Dumas' armor significantly, and the latter did not really change anything. And if we are to consider full transform Yama we should also consider purple Dumas.

I'm aware of the specifics. It doesn't change the fact that the elephant had AP to significantly damage the armor. Missing your arms doesn't mean that the durability of the rest of your body suddenly drops. Similarly, it doesn't mean that the remote-controlled Rosario spears (that the elephant stopped) get weaker.

Don't get me wrong. I do think the armor is well above CC Tier. He was nerfed when fighting these two BHs and still ended up slaughtering them once purple form came. What people seem to forget, however, is that Jinsung and Yama were also significantly nerfed (Jinsung's arms were completely ruined and Yama was injured and tired from the Nest).

The fact that someone like Tump who should be significantly beneath 2 Fang Yama in the powerscale managed to have a vastly better performance when injuring the armor proves that at the very least, 2 Fang Yama's nerf was very severe (and I suspect Jinsung may have been on a pretty similar boat).

I also don't see the point of Yama getting stronger and have some story while his relevance is absent anymore. Almost no nest, and his target of slaying, Traumerei, is dead already. We can expect a Robadon vs Dumas after their brief stare, while Yama was just whipped back and forth. Not only it remains to be seen whether Yama got that powerful, it is also a bit irrelevant and pointless for him to do so.

I agree that Yama's character is pretty much dead. He's one of the many victims of Season 3's mid-writing. Still, there's no denying the power-up he got was big, and that he should still have more in store (Acrinak).

Whether SIU cares enough to show what he previously introduced is another thing altogether though. If there's something that Season 3 has taught me, is that I shouldn't have big hopes. Otherwise I'll be setting myself up for disappointment.

 

[arrowofsky]

Aside from the Proust feat, he withstood an attack from the Shinwonryu ship without much trouble and with no damage. The same attack destroyed a big chunk of Gran Abuelo and impressed Robadon. Worth noting that Abuelo can withstand Haetae's flames.

Even lowballing, current base Yama wouldn't get less than CC Tier. CC Tier at least (likely higher) while effectively using nothing of his actual arsenal (no 7 levels of PT, External Transformation, Full Transformation, etc). The past Yama was only CC Tier when using everything. That proves the power-up he got was big.



I'm aware of the specifics. It doesn't change the fact that the elephant had AP to significantly damage the armor. Missing your arms doesn't mean that the durability of the rest of your body suddenly drops. Similarly, it doesn't mean that the remote-controlled Rosario spears (that the elephant stopped) get weaker.

Don't get me wrong. I do think the armor is well above CC Tier. He was nerfed when fighting these two BHs and still ended up slaughtering them once purple form came. What people seem to forget, however, is that Jinsung and Yama were also significantly nerfed (Jinsung's arms were completely ruined and Yama was injured and tired from the Nest).

The fact that someone like Tump who should be significantly beneath 2 Fang Yama in the powerscale managed to have a vastly better performance when injuring the armor proves that at the very least, 2 Fang Yama's nerf was very severe (and I suspect Jinsung may have been on a pretty similar boat).



I agree that Yama's character is pretty much dead. He's one of the many victims of Season 3's mid-writing. Still, there's no denying the power-up he got was big, and that he should still have more in store (Acrinak).

Whether SIU cares enough to show what he previously introduced is another thing altogether though. If there's something that Season 3 has taught me, is that I shouldn't have big hopes. Otherwise I'll be setting myself up for disappointment.

I thought the external transformation was Doom thing, and I don't think we need any partial transformation. Yama's was rather like "full transformation of left arm" rather than 2/8 of full transformation of left arm. Do I miss something here?

And power scales so far

Significantly Powered up Yama's Base punch > Proust Lighthouse Barrier > Robadon's primal punch
Significantly Powered up Yama's base defense > Shinwonryu Cannon > Gran Abuelo's bulk integrity > Haetae's flame >> (most probably) Tump
Purple Dumas >> Arms ruined Ha Jinsung >> Tump > Dumas Armor >> Injured and nerfed 2-fang Yama
Healthy and dandy 2-fang Yama >> Tump (I really don't know about this but yeah, it is not even the BH himself)
Then also Healthy and dandy 2-fang Yama ~ Arms ruined Ha jinsung

Yeah he seems to be able to put up a good fight against Dumas armor now. But Ha Jinsung or Dumas power comparison is missed. Ha Jinsung will always be either weak, sick, or injured or will just let himself lose all the opportunity in a fight, so let's just forget him. but Purple Dumas?

 

[Shadowlord123]

I thought the external transformation was Doom thing, and I don't think we need any partial transformation. Yama's was rather like "full transformation of left arm" rather than 2/8 of full transformation of left arm. Do I miss something here?

He showed external transformation against Yas during the Nest.

And yeah, Yama hasn't used Partial Transformation too much. He did during the Cage, but afterward, he just went Full Transformation.

Significantly Powered up Yama's base defense > Shinwonryu Cannon > Gran Abuelo's bulk integrity > Haetae's flame >> (most probably) Tump

Kirin threatened Tump, Joo, Wiwi, Rashut, Umtiti and Pokoko, a total of 6 BHs, to incineration with Haetae's fire, and they were all shitting their pants and telling him to put that beast away. It's certainly on another level.

Purple Dumas >> Arms ruined Ha Jinsung >> Tump > Dumas Armor >> Injured and nerfed 2-fang Yama

Ruined arms Jinsung shouldn't get past the armor's base form. The reason he got so far with DTG is that Dumas was purposely missing all his vitals. Not that DTG landing mattered since Dumas just regenerated back.

And Tump most likely also gets fucked if he's alone and the base armor isn't missing the arms.

Then also Healthy and dandy 2-fang Yama ~ Arms ruined Ha jinsung

More like healthy 2 Fang Yama ~ healthy Jinsung. They should both be in the same tier from what we know.

Yeah he seems to be able to put up a good fight against Dumas armor now. But Ha Jinsung or Dumas power comparison is missed. Ha Jinsung will always be either weak, sick, or injured or will just let himself lose all the opportunity in a fight, so let's just forget him. but Purple Dumas?

Well, purple Dumas is certainly much stronger than base form, but he probably isn't on another tier from Robadon or even Kirin. In fact, if you think like me that the real Dumas is much stronger than the armor, and you assume the real Dumas is meant to be on the same tier as the likes of Robadon, then the purple form of the armor wouldn't be fully-fledged Regent lvl (still above CC Tier though).

Anyways, that's a lot of speculation that we have no clear answer for. My point is that, based on how current Yama was portrayed in comparison to Robadon/Proust, it's very unlikely he's a scrub to Dumas. Unless of course, you assume Robadon and Proust themselves are scrubs to Dumas, but that in turn is also extremely unlikely.