Discussion How do you interpret these facts ?

[hblock]

Back then in the hidden floor arc, I was greatly impressed by how strong some of the most the outstanding Khun offsprings were. I mean, until then I firmly believed that Baam's friends represented the elite among the 10 GFs but it comes out that most of them are far, really far from being this strong. In fact, they weren't even remotely close to possess this much talent/potential after seeing Asencio and Maschenny's showings in this arc.
Below is a little summary of the most important feats.

I-Baam and his friends in the hidden floor realm

Despite all the obstacles they overcame and growth they achieved throughtough all the earlier arcs, both Baam and Endorsi (obviously the two strongest of the group back then) still struggled and showed their limits in many occasions once they entered the hidden floor. Not only the big breeders, they eres highly pressured against much weaker monsters and villains.

I-1-The giant soldier

Spoiler

The first difficulty was the giant soldier. Although Baam, Endorsi and Hansung sticked to each other, they favored escaping instead of fighting the thing directly. Batis further added that they were lucky surviving against it. Finally, Hansung who didn't seem threatened at all by Data Viole (Baam's sworn ennemy), said that they'd be risking their life if they attempt to face it headon, even in a 3v1 config : "But there's a giant soldier on the outside. It usually take a week to clear the stage, so there's no need to put yourselves in danger" (Hansung - Season 2, chapter 269).

I-2-The giant rat

Spoiler

Although Baam wasn't using the Thorn, hefailed to tag him due to his speed and agility. Rachel as Icarus effortlessly one shotted him however.

I-3-The statue of good and evil

Spoiler

Baam, Endorsi and Hansung were shown struggling a bit against it despite ganging up on it in a 3v1 fashion. Ultimately, they were forced to combine their abilities to beat the statue.
Hansung amplified Baam's shinsu and Endorsi teleported close enough to gain more accuracy (Season 2, chapter 272).

I-4-The armadillo-like villain

Spoiler

Although he wasn't using the Thorn, Baam failed to put a scratch on it. The snake charmer added that the latter and Endorsi would need a lot of time to subdue it because of its high defensive attributes.

I-5-Octopus kim

Spoiler

Although Khun, Sachi, Rak, Boro and Hockney ganged up on it, the octopus was the one having the upper hand. He was amped twice by the big breeder, that's a given, but his strength was overwhelming. He effortlessly broke Khun's lighthouse barrier twice and his speed/power were hard to keep up with. Ultimately, the team only cleared the quest thanks to Khun's knowledge about octopuses hole-tendency and intelligence but it was pretty clear that in terms of raw fighting ability, the octopus was way stronger than the 5-men team.

I-6-The stone general

Spoiler

Hansung once said that the stone general stand on a whole another level :
"That guy is the stone general, he's on a completely different level from the soldiers that we've faced so far" (Hansung - Season 2, chapter 281)
Does it imply that the giant soldier or the statue of good and evil which made Baam and Endorsi struggle so much pale in front of it ?
The giant soldier and the statue aren't anything like the quest's villains after all, they were aways there as special constructs. Hansung for instance never met the giant soldier until Baam and Endorsi came to the quarantine area despite being there for so many years. Similarly, the statue was introduced as a legendary monster who either ate or smashed the fruit of good&evil depending on whether or not the concerned team cleared the grand quest of the stage.
Also, seeing how this statement was addressed to Khun and Khun only fought villains summoned by the big breeder Chung until then, it'd come to sens that they weren't included but still.
That being said, if the general was really >> any summoned champion villain, then seeing how some of them can make the likes of Baam/Endorsi struggle a bit at least, it certainly means that his strength is tremendous, it aso hypes the big breeders power.
This creature also forced Hansung&Khun to retreat instead of facing it directly (mainly because of the rain of stones), implying that it's at least much stronger than the duo.

I-7Big breeders
Obviously, the immense desillusion while facing the big breeder is a very important matter to bring out. Chung just "easily" overwhelmed everyone at the same time (Baam, Endorsi, Hansung, Sachi, Khun, etc) and proved that he stands on a whole another level. However, it's also true that he was borrowing the mirror's and Jahad's powers, allowing him to use omnipotent abilities as when he made Shinwonryuu desappear just like that or healed a hole in the middle of his forehead as if it was nothing.

Similarly, Hansung said that Baam (prior to Edahn's training) didn't stand a chance against Jeok (another big breeder) :
"Even if you charge there right now, there's no way to beat the big breeder" (Hansung - Season 2, chapter 279)
But again, all of them were inside Jeok's territory and just like Chung, he could borrow Jahad&the mirror's power to use hax abilities.

Overall, it's pretty clear that the big breeders in their territories (with the ability to borrow power from mighty external entities) were portrayed to stand on a whole another level compared to Baam as he was when just entered the hidden floor (and by extension Endorsi). Furtheremore, the gaps between big breeders themselves are also to be taken into consideration (Hwang >> Jeok >> Chung).
Regardless, it leaves a lot of room of interpretation. Without these hax abilities, it just might be possible for Baam to keep up or at least compete with one of them, although that's not sure and has to be proven ofc.

So, that's it. I've talked about the most important fights, feats and statements, regarding by Baam and his friends during this first harlf of the hidden floor arc. Now, let's dive into Data Asencio and Maschenny's insane feats.

II-Khun's mighty power

Asencio's first showing happened when he was leading team Boro to Edahn's castle throughout the stages. What's worth mentionning is how casually he spoke about clearing quests as if they were some kind of joke.
"hey leader, go ahead and pick the hardest quest". (Asencio to Boro - Season 2, chapter 280)
And his feats clearly matchup to his statements as he effortlessly defeated the champion villain out there and cleared the grand quest all by himself. Boro, Sachi and the rest were all shocked after seeing his demonstration :

Spoiler

Especially when the villain he defeated "very easily" was of a way higher difficulty than the one which gave Khun+Sachi+Boro+Hockney+Rak so much difficulty before. What's more, he did it without even using the "flying spear skill" which is like his signature technique as well as trump card.
Said in other words, Asencio was shown to be at least far stronger than Khun+Sachi+Boro+Hockney+Rak without going all out.

Now, let's talk about his performance against the big breeder. As we know Jeok fought him outside of his realm, implying that he couldn't borrow power from the mirror or Jahad. This fact was pointed out several times by the Khuns sine it helf a lot of relevancy.
-"In that world, you borrowed the power of the mirror to act like some kind of administrator but now you've come all the way here, huh ? You're out of control" (Maschenny - Season 2, chapter 288).
-"Even for a big breeder, it would be dangerous to face him here". (Kiseia - Season 2, chapter 289)
-"Here, you can neither manipulate the world as you wish nor can you borrow lord Jahad's power. What gave you the confidence to come here ?" (Asencio - Season 2, chapter 289).
About the fight itself, it was mainly even if I've to say. Asencio certainly pressured Jeok when he unleashed his flying spear skill (seemingly his ultimate asset) but Jeok wasn't using his full power yet as he said. Therefore, if Maschenny didn't intervene, the outcome woul've been very uncertain.

Compared to Asencio, Maschenny just casually one shotted Jeok as if he was nothing with a nameless attack. The big breeder had a massive hole in his body before even he knew what just happened to him :

Spoiler

Said in other words, base Maschenny's power and speed stand on a whole another level.

III-Endorsi vs White

Another fight which might help assess the power gaps among regulars is certainly the short battle between Endorsi and White which happened after the hidden floor arc.
While Endorsi's shinsu quality was described as "fast and unpredictable", White's could fend off the darts with his sword (+there's Hwaryun's precog to consider). However despite blocking Endorsi's kick (+a little help from Beta) with his blade, he was sent flying, busting a metalic construct behind due to the shock before regaining his composure.
Said in other words, Endorsi's physical strikes are more destructive than her shinsu quality. Yet, she still has some even more destructive attacks which she didn't use against White such as Chiffon Sword (Yuri's skill) or Bong Bong amped kicks, implying that the shinsu quality wasn't as much of a power up for her (unlike Khun or Rak). It certainly increases her versatility but that's it. Even without her shinsu quality, White would've had a similar difficulty while facing her.

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Now that the key elements (fights, feats, statements) regarding D-class regualrs were hihglighted. How'd you interprete all these facts ?
Say, Data Viole is 10 (in overall power), how would you rate the following in a purely linear scale (say X is 2 times stronger than Y, then X' score would be two times higher than Y's) :
-Data Viole : 10
-The giant soldier
-The statue of good and evil
-The stone general
-Big breeder Chung (without borrowing Jahad&the mirror's powers)
-Big breeder Jeok (without borrowing Jahad&the mirror's powers)
-Endorsi (before learning her shinsu quality)
-Endorsi (after learning her shinsu quality)
-Baam (before Edahn's training)
-White (before absorbing Albelda)
-Data Asencio
-Data Maschenny

 

[kkck]

I don't think it's necessarily the case that bam's companions lag THAT much behind some more notorious regulars or data regulars.

In aguero's case I maintain that the arc in general redefines his talent. Simply put aguero climbed the tower while being a jackass who put essentially no effort into his combat ability. He did the bare minimum in that regard and even then consistently managed to remain one of the more relevant regulars in his class across arcs. THEN comes the hidden floor arc and we actually learn where aguero's talent is through the ice spear. His talent is both spears and ice. This is as patently absurd as an arie refusing to use his swordsmanship. While aguero still doesn't exactly actively participate in fights his talent is definitely off the charts. Add to that with the ice spear alone he is already a whole class above any regular in his category barring princesses or bam. Also, setting aside that aguero basically half asses it when it comes to actual combat, we have no idea if mascheny had her shinsoo quality at the time. Internal quality shinsoo control should pretty much make the lightning pill obsolete and yet she went with that.

Rak is in a similar boat. His power was sealed by a curse placed by zahard himself. Even now his power is at least partially sealed. Aguero's talent is of the charts but raks is entirely an unknown. He can't even use his power and he appears to be an actual living ancient one. We have seen how strong evankhel's and khel's ancient ones are. We know the yeon flame comes from an ancient one.. There is no telling to how strong or massive rak could become if the curse is ever released.

Endorse holding her own against white even with those favorable circumstances is an incredible feat. Bam won against white but that was largely due to the souls and arie swordsmanship powering him up at the time. When they arrived to the hidden floor white was probably among the stronger people in the floor by general, with only the family heads and urek being above. I wouldn't necessarily place even data mascheny above him.

 

[OneEye]

Technically, Baam is a "killer whale" gradually making its way up the tower and many of those siding with him, especially regulars, are condemned to have a slower growth rate as the whale keeps clearing their paths.

Koon A.A for instance has been mostly sitting and talking while Baam and others fight. Lesoo too has just stopped fighting ever since he joined the Baam train.

In the end, many of Baam's comrades will grow to be very strong, thanks to their affinity to him and high rankers (e.g Yuri following Baam and training Endorsi to kill time ; White following Baam and advising Hatsu...) ...but their growth rate cannot be expected to be equal to those who had to survive the hardships of climbing the Tower without an irregular and several strong highrankers by their side (Ascencio, Hangsung, Maschenny...)