Discussion Leviathan's Biblical Inspiration

[Cinera]

Something that I would like to point out is that Leviathan isn't baselessly arrogant, it's just heavily inspired by an accurate rendition of the Leviathan in the Book of Job.

See this passage:

33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.

34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

Then compare this to Leviathan's declaration this chapter:

I am the monster that looked down on every beings. I had nothing to fear since birth,

And I was the king of all endlessly arrogant creatures.

I am the monster that considered everything trivial.

Everything inside the Tower was under my power

So we have the following:

• Leviathan fears nothing:
  • "A creature without fear"
  • "I had nothing to fear since birth,"
• Leviathan is above all
  • "Nothing on earth is its equal"
  • "Everything inside the Tower was under my power"
• Leviathan looks down on others
  • "It looks down on all that are haughty;"
  • "I am the monster that looked down on every beings."
• Leviathan is the King of those who are arrogant.
  • "It is king over all that are proud."
  • And I was the king of all endlessly arrogant creatures.

Also, note the emphasis on Leviathan's armour:

13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?

And here's what Leviathan says in this chapter:

I was born with the power to go against the King and his hordes with this armour of evil.

Or consider how Leviathan cannot be subdued by anyone:

9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.

And then from this chapter:

I shall lend you the power to not be succumbed to anyone.

Or see this description of the appearance of Leviathan:

13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.

23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

It's an accurate visual description of how Leviathan appears in this chapter:

Spoiler

All of this adds a completely new dimension entirely to Leviathan's dialogue in this chapter. It makes it all the more chilling to know that this is the beast of legend.


I'll quote the entire chapter below for those who are interested:

1 “Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

There are obvious and very accurate similarities here for sure.

It's impossible to say where they end though.

 

[paulbee]

SIU obviously borrowed from Job almost verbatim. The question for/from us readers is whether there's fire with this smoke. If Bam can make the attributes of the Leviathan his own, he should rise to a very high ranker disposition, and should be able to defensively survive an attack from FH's in my estimate.

Again, is SIU still fooling around with our expectations, or will he let Bam become one of the notable strong entities up and down the tower?

 

[Demonspeed]

Between Leviathan, Acrinak and the Thryssas. Who do you think is stronger?

Do you believe that Leviathan by himself can defeat a Family Head?

 

[kkck]

Between Leviathan, Acrinak and the Thryssas. Who do you think is stronger?

Do you believe that Leviathan by himself can defeat a Family Head?

I feel like the answer to this question will be mostly murky. Acrinak seems pretty powerful, strong enough to give pause to the LPB army along with multiple branch leaders even when it had a weak host... But it is still just a tower resident. Leviathan seems so strong that a tiny portion of his power is enough to push back powerful high rankers... The red thrysa was strong enough that yuri and garam were basically helpless against it. Now, I could see the leviathan having more raw power than acrinak or even the thrysas but the thrysas are still fractions of administrators. So it's feasible that leviathan has more power but the thrysas have a better power if you will.

 

[zoradante1]

Between Leviathan, Acrinak and the Thryssas. Who do you think is stronger?

Do you believe that Leviathan by himself can defeat a Family Head?

i believe acrinak is clearly not even close to both leviathan and thryssas.

As for between leviathan and thryssa, i think it's kinda hard to say something sure,but i would say leviathan is one step stronger than them. Though thryssas would still be likely to threat to him.If we go by the biblical inspiration of leviathan,then only god can defeat him/her. Though admins would beat him i'm not sure about family heads. Even if family heads are stronger i would say leviathan at the very least a worthy being rather than other bugs like all beings other than irregulars to them,considering how Leviathan knew, met with family heads, likely experienced their power even if it wasn't their full power, but he was confident on dragging trauma into abyss. So leviathan is likely to be a cut weaker than family heads.

 

[Demonspeed]

Correct me if I am wrong but Leviathan was created by Traumerei right?

 

[kkck]

Correct me if I am wrong but Leviathan was created by Traumerei right?

The leviathan said something to that effect. Something about traumerei birthing it? Hard to say what the implications of this are.

 

[Demonspeed]

It's the first time since ToG began that I am seriously considering the possibility of a creature like this being able to fight Irregulars.

Leviathan's existence is confusing. SIU said before that the FH can't beat a Guardian(I think it will probably not be the case) but the Thryssas are Guardians.

Leviathan was created by Traumerei and somehow he can not only resist his control but his power is hyped as if it was greater than the Thryssas.

 

[kkck]

It's the first time since ToG began that I am seriously considering the possibility of a creature like this being able to fight Irregulars.

Leviathan's existence is confusing. SIU said before that the FH can't beat a Guardian(I think it will probably not be the case) but the Thryssas are Guardians.

Leviathan was created by Traumerei and somehow he can not only resist his control but his power is hyped as if it was greater than the Thryssas.

But isn't the implication that the leviathan couldn't fight irregulars? It at least got defeated by them. It could resist traumerei's control but that's something he has in common with wang wang and presumably yama. Ultimately it ended up sealed within the suspendium where traumerei showed up every now and then to try and dominate it. That said, the leviathan's power could still be quite high up the pecking order. Which is not necessarily outside the scope of the lore as there are tower residents we know of whose power would appear to be close to the family heads. Luslec, enne, adori, baek ryun...

 

[Aliblack]

I looked up Leviathan in A Dictionary of Symbols. it had some interesting points in it so I wanted to share them with you.

"A huge, fabulous fish which bears the weight of the waters upon its back and which the Rabbis claimed was destined for the Supper of the Messiah (8). In Scandinavian mythology, the oceans are the creation of a great serpent or dragon which swallows the waters only to regurgitate them; this being is called Midgardorm (35). The Leviathan is an archetype of things inferior—of the primordial monster connected with the cosmogonic sacrifice, such as the Mesopotamian Tiamat (or Tiawath). Sometimes it is in all respects identical with the world—or, rather, with the force which preserves and vitalizes the world"( emphasis added ).