Urek Mazino vs V (Prime)

[Pro Factor]

Common problem granted but feels like people are giving Urek's actions in the Sprout a pass because he's an ally of MC. Urek didn't achieve anything for whichever purpose he came to the sprout.
Didn't stop the third party.
Didn't stop the FHs from their death. He says things for saying sake.
He's actively stopping the story progression for me.
It's getting annoying for me now.

Since this is a thread about Urek I'll say what I think.

Whole Urek helping Bam thing came out from SIU screwing up power scale and allowing Bam to injure Urek in Zigena. That led to Urek being impressed by Bam and telling Yuje to keep an eye on Bam, who later due to that saved Yiwha and floor of death happened and so on. If that didn't happen who knows how Urek would act towards Bam and if he would take so much interest in him. Even though he likes him because he protected Miseng against him. So from the very beginning Urek taking so much interest in Bam was a mistake basically.

Since floor of death Urek was already on trajectory to become a plot device. Him easily solving something that not even Garam could or Yuri who was also there was a easy way out and if Yuri and Garam couldn't defeat Hell Joe I have no idea who would be able to at that time except Urek, maybe Gustang?

This intervention now is so out of place it's wild, there were better ways for SIU to showcase Ureks power. He had no business coming and stopping this fight and what makes it cheap is that SIU didn't give us proper explanation why he did what he did, their (Wolhaiksong) goal was always said to be to find exit from the tower. This fight in no way had anything to do with Wolhaiksong and Urek already refused Garam once because of his principles, if she was the one that asked for this to be stopped , why didn't he go and fight Zahard? What makes this request inherently different than "go kill Zahard for me" ? Nothing, it's just that plot demanded this fight to somehow be stopped. If Traum is alive (which there is a high chance he is) I feel like plot got slowed down a lot, just because Urek decided to step in. This story is going for over a decade and we are nowhere near end. MC doesn't have clear goal in mind, no FH is dead, Zahard main antagonist didn't even make an appearance, we have so many questions unanswered about side characters, let alone about main cast, we have so many floor to explore and on top of that we have rest of the climb after floor 134. It's wild to think SIU wants to stop progress of the story by using Urek here to save the day. I really hope Traum died, not only because he is trash person, but because death of FH would start moving plot forward, which right now is moving very slowly.

 

[maverickframe_19]

Since this is a thread about Urek I'll say what I think.

Whole Urek helping Bam thing came out from SIU screwing up power scale and allowing Bam to injure Urek in Zigena. That led to Urek being impressed by Bam and telling Yuje to keep an eye on Bam, who later due to that saved Yiwha and floor of death happened and so on. If that didn't happen who knows how Urek would act towards Bam and if he would take so much interest in him. Even though he likes him because he protected Miseng against him. So from the very beginning Urek taking so much interest in Bam was a mistake basically.

Since floor of death Urek was already on trajectory to become a plot device. Him easily solving something that not even Garam could or Yuri who was also there was a easy way out and if Yuri and Garam couldn't defeat Hell Joe I have no idea who would be able to at that time except Urek, maybe Gustang?

This intervention now is so out of place it's wild, there were better ways for SIU to showcase Ureks power. He had no business coming and stopping this fight and what makes it cheap is that SIU didn't give us proper explanation why he did what he did, their (Wolhaiksong) goal was always said to be to find exit from the tower. This fight in no way had anything to do with Wolhaiksong and Urek already refused Garam once because of his principles, if she was the one that asked for this to be stopped , why didn't he go and fight Zahard? What makes this request inherently different than "go kill Zahard for me" ? Nothing, it's just that plot demanded this fight to somehow be stopped. If Traum is alive (which there is a high chance he is) I feel like plot got slowed down a lot, just because Urek decided to step in. This story is going for over a decade and we are nowhere near end. MC doesn't have clear goal in mind, no FH is dead, Zahard main antagonist didn't even make an appearance, we have so many questions unanswered about side characters, let alone about main cast, we have so many floor to explore and on top of that we have rest of the climb after floor 134. It's wild to think SIU wants to stop progress of the story by using Urek here to save the day. I really hope Traum died, not only because he is trash person, but because death of FH would start moving plot forward, which right now is moving very slowly.

I think I have exactly the same sentiments regarding Urek. You have put it beautifully.

I repeat to others please don't twist my words as someone who hates Urek. No that is not the case but I do hate the fact of how he's been utilised in the story. This is why I am concerned regarding him and his involvement in progressing the story further. For me, he's hindering it. That's all.

 

[Lord V returned]

I personally don't read too much into that comment of V and can't "guarantee anything". Can't guarantee what? Can't guarantee that he won't kill Urek with 1 shot? Can't guarantee that he can win with less than 2 hits? Can't guarantee that it won't be an easy fight? Can't guarantee that he won't take more than 10minutes to beat him?

What is prime? For Doom that might have made sense. Doom reached a point, he lost a lot of power and he was slowly regaining again. If we said Doom's peak was "100 power" and he lost the fang etc and dropped to "45 power", he is no where near his prime, but as time passes eventually Doom will pass "100" and be in a new prime of his life. Because isn't that what the tower is effectively? You grow more powerful as you get older, so what "prime" are we talking about here? What does that even mean? Look at how siu is writing stuff these days, all characters in good condition should always be in the prime of their life while in teh tower. Yet for a while already Siu is attempting to write Jinsung Ha as some boomer past his prime, getting too old to do anything. Yet he even used that very same Jinsung Ha to get the message across that in the tower, the older you get the more powerful you get. So how can Jinsung be both a boomer past his prime and become more powerful at the same time? What is prime then? How does Siu define that?

The prime of V's life in regards to age? What was that? When he was 16? 100? 500? When was this "prime"?
The prime of V's life in regards to power? Again, when was this? Was his prime the moment before he died? The prime of V's life was the man that just lost a son, had his wife tried to kill herself multiple times and he went into depression bordering on "suicide", was that the prime of V's life? Can he not guarantee anything in a fight with Urek while being depressed and suicidal? When was this "prime"? What even is this "prime" ?


Obviously it was supposed to be some hype tool, but did it really hype anything? I mean let's assume for a second that V said that line and he meant that even in the best case scenario he cannot beat Urek, that is just how powerful and how big of a threatt that man is. So what? Because the very next panel doesn't even correlate to that "claim", because the very next panel V is telling Luslec to wait . He is standing literally in front of this "great threat that can even beat my prime self" and yet he still finds it more important to stand and watch Traumerei die than to "run". As if he couldn't be bothered less by Urek standing mere meters away from him. That instance alone made anything he said to "power scale" Urek meaningless. If he really believed what he said there, then he wouldn't first hang around and make sure his old friend is dying before casually walking off.

I just saw someone being agreeable that's all. Luslec gave an opinion, V was just being agreeable that's all.

Like a guy looking at a simple math problem, commenting how impossible it is to some math genius and he responds "Yes, even I think I would have a hard time with that". Meaningless at best, condescending at worst.

 

[Lonatian]

How many characters in ToG do you think are humble?
While we see many characters speaking exaggeratedly.
Let me give you an example.
- If V says that he could beat Urek at his prime. Of course, even though he says he could, it doesn't mean he can. But he's clearly confident of winning.
- But V says that even at his prime, he can't guarantee anything. He clearly doesn't have much confidence. That means he thinks the possibility of him losing is greater.

You know, I don't think V is humble. So he's clearly telling the truth, and he is appreciating Urek's strength.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

Since this is a thread about Urek I'll say what I think.

Whole Urek helping Bam thing came out from SIU screwing up power scale and allowing Bam to injure Urek in Zigena. That led to Urek being impressed by Bam and telling Yuje to keep an eye on Bam, who later due to that saved Yiwha and floor of death happened and so on. If that didn't happen who knows how Urek would act towards Bam and if he would take so much interest in him. Even though he likes him because he protected Miseng against him. So from the very beginning Urek taking so much interest in Bam was a mistake basically.

Since floor of death Urek was already on trajectory to become a plot device. Him easily solving something that not even Garam could or Yuri who was also there was a easy way out and if Yuri and Garam couldn't defeat Hell Joe I have no idea who would be able to at that time except Urek, maybe Gustang?

This intervention now is so out of place it's wild, there were better ways for SIU to showcase Ureks power. He had no business coming and stopping this fight and what makes it cheap is that SIU didn't give us proper explanation why he did what he did, their (Wolhaiksong) goal was always said to be to find exit from the tower. This fight in no way had anything to do with Wolhaiksong and Urek already refused Garam once because of his principles, if she was the one that asked for this to be stopped , why didn't he go and fight Zahard? What makes this request inherently different than "go kill Zahard for me" ? Nothing, it's just that plot demanded this fight to somehow be stopped. If Traum is alive (which there is a high chance he is) I feel like plot got slowed down a lot, just because Urek decided to step in. This story is going for over a decade and we are nowhere near end. MC doesn't have clear goal in mind, no FH is dead, Zahard main antagonist didn't even make an appearance, we have so many questions unanswered about side characters, let alone about main cast, we have so many floor to explore and on top of that we have rest of the climb after floor 134. It's wild to think SIU wants to stop progress of the story by using Urek here to save the day. I really hope Traum died, not only because he is trash person, but because death of FH would start moving plot forward, which right now is moving very slowly.

Very well said. Tbh I don't mind urek intervening as long as he has a strong reason to do so and even then he can fail as while he maybe the strongest guy , gustang , luslec , vaam etc together can still be successful in killing traum if SIU wants it to happen. Its does feels like SIU is stretching things out.

 

[Demonspeed]

Would you mind answering my question posted above as well? Given your stance on Urek in the past, your thoughts would be intriguing on this.

No. He only does what he wants unless people ask him to(Bak, Garam, Yuri). Maybe things will change in this arc since Baam is under control and V + FUG is a very big deal. I have always thought if something were to make Urek move like this it would be Garam's death.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2024, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2024 ---

How many characters in ToG do you think are humble?
While we see many characters speaking exaggeratedly.
Let me give you an example.
- If V says that he could beat Urek at his prime. Of course, even though he says he could, it doesn't mean he can. But he's clearly confident of winning.
- But V says that even at his prime, he can't guarantee anything. He clearly doesn't have much confidence. That means he thinks the possibility of him losing is greater.

You know, I don't think V is humble. So he's clearly telling the truth, and he is appreciating Urek's strength.

What V said doesn't imply that he is not confident in the slightest, he is simply being realistic. A confident or delusional person would say something like: "I would beat him for sure if I was in my prime" or "He is lucky I am not in my prime". Which is something that Hoaqin(sometimes delusional) said a lot.

In the end, the message here is that they are in the same ballpark. And it was always clear that Zahard, V and Urek were in their own class (excepted to delusional people or blind haters).

 

[XXGenesis]

What are you talking about? I am simply saying that I am amused by the situation. You are free to report me if you believe I have been condescending or anything.

I’m not tattle teller. I’ll PM you, excuse the public display.

I get why you’re amused. As you mentioned others liking a character so much that they downplay other characters. Very True, I’ve blocked someone because they like Zharad so much they can’t even discuss the facts of the story without simping for him.

However as I explained. There’s a lot of credence for V’s statement to be considered true & for the fandom to speculate. I been very vocal about Urek’s characterization being super annoying & openly admitting I’m team F.U.G all day, V’s my boi. But I do believe from these showings; Urek amazing no neck ass is built all the way different from the 13GW, he’s the strongest Irregular. Until Vaam gets more adjusted

 

[Demonspeed]

I’m not tattle teller. I’ll PM you, excuse the public display.

I get why you’re amused. As you mentioned others liking a character so much that they downplay other characters. Very True, I’ve blocked someone because they like Zharad so much they can’t even discuss the facts of the story without simping for him.

However as I explained. There’s a lot of credence for V’s statement to be considered true & for the fandom to speculate. I been very vocal about Urek’s characterization being super annoying & openly admitting I’m team F.U.G all day, V’s my boi. But I do believe from these showings; Urek amazing no neck ass is built all the way different from the 13GW, he’s the strongest Irregular. Until Vaam gets more adjusted

What amuses me is that people changed their minds so fast when V didn't even say he would lose. He said he isn't sure he would win, that's different.

 

[XXGenesis]

What amuses me is that people changed their minds so fast when V didn't even say he would lose. He said he isn't sure he would win, that's different.

lol well ok that is funny. Fickle thee thy fandoms.

 

[Pro Factor]

What amuses me is that people changed their minds so fast when V didn't even say he would lose. He said he isn't sure he would win, that's different.

It's actually crazy how many people took his "I can't guarantee anything" for "I would lose to this guy even in my prime"... like what? It could very well mean "I could win in my prime, but I can't guarantee anything".

But without more info it's hard to judge.

I do wonder if V will use thorn though. Considering Luslec wanted Bam to have it I would guess he wanted it eventually for V. Unless he fully expects V and Bam to separate. I personally liked theory where Ghost is the real body of V.

 

[maverickframe_19]

It's actually crazy how many people took his "I can't guarantee anything" for "I would lose to this guy even in my prime"... like what? It could very well mean "I could win in my prime, but I can't guarantee anything".

But without more info it's hard to judge.

I do wonder if V will use thorn though. Considering Luslec wanted Bam to have it I would guess he wanted it eventually for V. Unless he fully expects V and Bam to separate. I personally liked theory where Ghost is the real body of V.

I don't think he can access Thorn. I feel like that item was specifically made for Baam. If any irregular could have used it, why didn't Gustang use it against the empire? He had 2nd in his possession and given his knowledge, he should have been aware of other fragments in the tower.

 

[Pro Factor]

I don't think he can access Thorn. I feel like that item was specifically made for Baam. If any irregular could have used it, why didn't Gustang use it against the empire? He had 2nd in his possession and given his knowledge, he should have been aware of other fragments in the tower.

Gustang didn't use it because Enryu didn't leave it for him and you better not piss him off especially when you're a clown of Gustangs level.

On a more serious note I also think only Bam can use it, but that goes directly against what SIU had said. However I just think he changed opinions since the time where he said any irregular can use it.

 

[Lord V returned]

I don't think he can access Thorn. I feel like that item was specifically made for Baam. If any irregular could have used it, why didn't Gustang use it against the empire? He had 2nd in his possession and given his knowledge, he should have been aware of other fragments in the tower.

Yeah but they share the same body, so I don't think it's like the thorn is bound to bam's soul or anything, it is to his body, so there should be no reason why V can't use it. That's my take at least and I think it might be the take of anyone in FUG involved with it. If it's true that Luslec knew V would return now and he won't be able to use the thorn, then there is really no reason to even give the thorn to bam unless they purely did that just to make sure nobody else can take it. It's already part of Bam's body so nobody else can use the thorn.

But I think V should be able to use it, along with any other powers bam has, if he can't then it makes no sense for them to have planned to bring V back in that body at all, could have just let him reoccupy his old body then.

 

[Demonspeed]

All Irregulars can use the Thorn. Its powers can change depending on the wielder.

Even assuming it can only be used by Baam, it means V can definitely use it as well since Baam was supposed to be V's vessel from the very beginning.

Now that there is V's Shinsoo flow I wonder if it'll manifest other powers.

 

[maverickframe_19]

All Irregulars can use the Thorn. Its powers can change depending on the wielder.

Even assuming it can only be used by Baam, it means V can definitely use it as well since Baam was supposed to be V's vessel from the very beginning.

Now that there is V's Shinsoo flow I wonder if it'll manifest other powers.

I would love it if SIU retcons thorn to be something like 13 monthly series with some form of soul in it, maybe enryu's aura radiates from it and says, V you're not the one. Lol would be funny all things considered.