Quarterfinal August vs God Serena

[EmptySoul]

August was said to copy all Caster Magic, DS is a Caster magic, don't tell me you also deny facts and think it is holder type ?

August doesn't need either to copy it, I keep saying this again and again but for some reason nobody looks at it,a DS lacrima contains DS magic to give the person who has it DS magic, that is what August copies, what August needs to copy is the magic, there is no need for a lacrima to give him the magic.

I've shown this before on Discord, and I'll show it here :

Spoiler

Those marks are there each time August uses his copy magic and are there when August uses his Red Skin mode, and you can see the "SST" sound its making, that was when August was asked about GS after Acno shredded him. Now Copy Marks after GS showed his magic and died, then August says "He's here with me" , we haven't seen it, but anyone with rational and logical thinking would say its because he copied his magic(DS Magic). I hope you have rational and logical thinking.

He is the Magic King, who is above every mage in the verse in terms of power, he was a god because looking back at what it took to scratch him(From Gildarts nonetheless) and Ars Magia, which can wipe out a country.
And no, he won't beat Acno, he'd damage him but Acno has better physical stats, way more magic power than August and pretty much superior in most if not all stats. August knew how strong which is why he stopped Jacob from attacking Acnologia. And August probably knew that Acnologia is also outright superior to Zeref(an immortal with death magic) because he said "We're out of time" when Acnologia came back.

And August wasn't shown much magic at all, does that mean because he didn't show magic that he doesn't know it ? Because y'know, No Panels, No Proof ? We already have a statement that he can copy all caster magic, and I explained above why he can copy DS magic.

Other than the marks....and the statement of being able to use all caster magic....no basis.....

Spoiler

I didn't understand the weakness that @Labi mentioned, but you seem to understand, so can you explain it to me if you may ? :>

Now now monkey,dont treat that little theory of yours like its a fact,im 99.9% sure Hiro changed his mind abt Augusts design like he always does with the plot so i wont pay any attention to that point

Also im not denying the facts that it can copy caster magic its just that the "how to gain DS magic" rule and "August can copy all magic (except all holder-type)" rule collide with each other
Cause the manga says that U can only gain DS magic through those two ways that were mentioned and the manga says august can copy all caster magic
The former being a known rule for 400 chaps and being repeated a few times while the latter being one for abt 15 chaps?
U cant claim one without denying the other
Im just going with the one thats been stated a hundred times instead of the one we barely know abt

Also what i meant b4 was that @Labi meant that DS magic has the same weakness as holder types to August and that is that he cant copy it,doesnt take a genius to figure out what i meant

 

[Jko]

If August could use DS he'd be prime time for Acno, but Acno disregarded him entirely which means he ain't a DS. August would've shown DS magic if he had DS but he didn't and he was never implied to have it either. DS is a magic that can only be obtained though two forms which is a Lacrima (something a Dragon probably enchanted) and a Dragon enchanting you. It cannot be copied. The magic is very special as it has requirements in using it.

 

[Doughboy]

On her guild card it said Gran Doma from the magic council gave her the Sky God Slayer book for her excellence in school. So she self-taught herself. Zancrow learned from Hades and Orga was the only one we don't know how he came across his.

 

[Labi]

We already have a statement that he can copy all caster magic, and I explained above why he can copy DS magic

Dude it was also stated Zeref has infinite Magic Power, full control over time and so on
We even saw Natsu deatomize his body and he just regenerated. 2 chapters later not even an limb of his was broken but he was defeated.

Why are you u applying credibility to FT statements. The way to go for FT is obviously to look if smthn actually happened or not.

We got a statement "Dragons can only be hurt by Dragons or DS's"
Yet the strongest dragon was forced to let go of Jellal by MERE BULLETS while Atlas flame took a full power makarov hit unscathed.

Dont apply credibility to statements made by Mashima.

I completely agree to @EmptySoul 's statements.
Its just the "logical" way to go hear.

Mashimas in panel statements dont mean shit.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

Now now monkey,dont treat that little theory of yours like its a fact,im 99.9% sure Hiro changed his mind abt Augusts design like he always does with the plot so i wont pay any attention to that point

That is a nice way of saying "I can't counter that point at all, so I'll pass"

Also im not denying the facts that it can copy caster magic its just that the "how to gain DS magic" rule and "August can copy all magic (except all holder-type)" rule collide with each other
Cause the manga says that U can only gain DS magic through those two ways that were mentioned and the manga says august can copy all caster magic
The former being a known rule for 400 chaps and being repeated a few times while the latter being one for abt 15 chaps?
U cant claim one without denying the other
Im just going with the one thats been stated a hundred times instead of the one we barely know abt

Honestly....I don't think you read my post at all :> Since I explained why August can copy DS and at the same time, I'll explain it here again I guess...so make sure to not pass this ok ?
What August needs to copy is the magic itself, he won't and can't copy the Dragon seed or the lacrima, since those aren't magic, what he will copy is something inside the lacrima, the DS Magic, so instead of getting a lacrima to insert it into his own body to gain the magic, he just copies the magic inside, as its Caster Magic. So we can claim one while not denying the other.

Also what i meant b4 was that @Labi meant that DS magic has the same weakness as holder types to August and that is that he cant copy it,doesnt take a genius to figure out what i meant

Well, when someone says "I basically have proof that DS magic is holder type" I take it as portrayed , until he later on explains in Discord how it is "holder type" and someone like you sees it then understands what he meant. Truly, it doesn't take a genius to read a detailed explanation outside of the post he said the thing in.

Dude it was also stated Zeref has infinite Magic Power, full control over time and so on
We even saw Natsu deatomize his body and he just regenerated. 2 chapters later not even an limb of his was broken but he was defeated.

Why are you u applying credibility to FT statements. The way to go for FT is obviously to look if smthn actually happened or not.

We got a statement "Dragons can only be hurt by Dragons or DS's"
Yet the strongest dragon was forced to let go of Jellal by MERE BULLETS while Atlas flame took a full power makarov hit unscathed.

Dont apply credibility to statements made by Mashima.

I completely agree to @EmptySoul 's statements.
Its just the "logical" way to go hear.

Mashimas in panel statements dont mean shit.

Your post simply makes me want to tear my head off, you're leaning on 2 BS moments to unjustify the two statements, then you generalize all statements in FT just because of these two.

We never got a statement that Dragons can only be hurt by DS, just that they have strong resistance to non DS magics.
And if we don't credit statements, then we might as well debunk over half of FT because it was just statements.
It was stated CSK and Mard fought in the past, lets debunk that cuz we didn't see it.
It was stated that Ankhseram cursed Zeref, lets debunk that since we never saw Ankhseram.
It was stated Zeref is Natsu's brother, did we see their mother give birth ? No, lets debunk that too.He might've been his step brother for all we know

Your logic is flawed, so don't come into an argument until you have basis.

 

[Labi]

We never got a statement that Dragons can only be hurt by DS, just that they have strong resistance to non DS magics.

Im gonna look it up just 4 u hny

And first off I just said
DONT BELIEVE STATEMENTS WHICH ARE UNPROVEN. I never generalized all statements as lies.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

Im gonna look it up just 4 u hny

And first off I just said
DONT BELIEVE STATEMENTS WHICH ARE UNPROVEN. I never generalized all statements as lies.

Take your time looking at it and.....

August did show that he can copy DS magic, which is caster magic. And if you use the August didn't show DS magic, then August for example can't use Ice Magic because he hasn't shown it.

 

[Labi]

Take your time looking at it and.....

August did show that he can copy DS magic, which is caster magic. And if you use the August didn't show DS magic, then August for example can't use Ice Magic because he hasn't shown it.

U misunderstand.
Ice magic is nothing like DS magic.

DS magic has the conditions we talked about to be learned.
And what I am saying is that the two statements clash. That it can only be obtained via Dragon training or via Lacrima vs He can copy all magic.
But we never got to know if he can copy magic with Special conditions.

Also considering u said he copied Serenas DS magic why werent his eyes slitted or where were his sharp teeth?

Im not gonna argue about this topic anymore.
For me the statements clearly clash. If not for you, then i unfortunately cant do anything about it.

Im out~

 

[BluePegasus]

Such a dull reply,didnt even counter any of my points ,i wonder why...

Also no one is denying August stomps GS here

Why do I need to counter your "points" when it's nothing more than a fact that August can copy every single caster magic. Like what are you expecting from me while there's nothing left to say?

An useless discussion to say the least.

 

[EmptySoul]

Why do I need to counter your "points" when it's nothing more than a fact that August can copy every single caster magic. Like what are you expecting from me while there's nothing left to say?

An useless discussion to say the least.

Its also a fact that DS magic can only be gained by those two ways mentioned,are u denying those?

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

First of all, I would like to say welcome back @BluePegasus

Second of all... August vs Serena has 6 pages. Wut?

How the hell people can even think Serena stands a ghost of a chance here is beyond me.

 

[BluePegasus]

Its also a fact that DS magic can only be gained by those two ways mentioned,are u denying those?

Are you denying that Dragon Slayer Magic is a Caster Magic?

In that case, start over again all the way from chapter 1.

 

[EmptySoul]

Are you denying that Dragon Slayer Magic is a Caster Magic?

In that case, start over again all the way from chapter 1.

Also im not denying the facts that Augusts magic can copy caster magic its just that the "how to gain DS magic" rule and "August can copy all magic (except all holder-type)" rule collide with each other
Cause the manga says that U can only gain DS magic through those two ways that were mentioned and the manga says august can copy all caster magic
The former being a known rule for 400 chaps and being repeated a few times while the latter being one for abt 15 chaps?
U cant claim one without denying the other
Im just going with the one thats been stated a hundred times and have more basis on instead of the one we barely know abt

 

[BluePegasus]

Also im not denying the facts that Augusts magic can copy caster magic its just that the "how to gain DS magic" rule and "August can copy all magic (except all holder-type)" rule collide with each other
Cause the manga says that U can only gain DS magic through those two ways that were mentioned and the manga says august can copy all caster magic
The former being a known rule for 400 chaps and being repeated a few times while the latter being one for abt 15 chaps?
U cant claim one without denying the other
Im just going with the one thats been stated a hundred times and have more basis on instead of the one we barely know abt

Like honestly what are you trying to say? You're stating you're not denying that it's a Caster Magic yet you are referring to it as a Holder Magic. Dragon Slayer Magic is a Caster Magic, and August can copy all of them: that's a fact. Period.

 

[EmptySoul]

Like honestly what are you trying to say? You're stating you're not denying that it's a Caster Magic yet you are referring to it as a Holder Magic. Dragon Slayer Magic is a Caster Magic, and August can copy all of them: that's a fact. Period.

Im convinced u dont even read my posts b4 replying to it but thats ok,we all have different opinions on this matter it seems.

 

[Jko]

First of all, I would like to say welcome back @BluePegasus

Second of all... August vs Serena has 6 pages. Wut?

How the hell people can even think Serena stands a ghost of a chance here is beyond me.

Zeref vs Laxus has 12 pages

I'm pretty sure most people believe August would win, and the argument is mostly about him being able to copy Serena's DS Magic or not.

 

[inactive lurker account]

The more I read this discussion, the more it feels like a warmup for a possible August vs Irene match-up in the semi-finals or the finals

In any case, I've said this before that August can seemingly cancel God Serena's magic, but what we haven't been shown is whether he can copy the dragon-slayer aspect of the magic that he copies. Or to put it in another way, can August wield dragon slayer magic without being a dragon slayer?

This goes back to what I think is the key question concerning the king of magic: should he be underestimated by making exceptions to what he can do, or should he be overestimated by making him an exception to what can or cannot be done? Responses would be highly appreciated...

 

[Enima]

Yo! guys it's stated that holder magic, "is Magic that requires a Mage to use an external source to produce the Magic. It usually requires the use of Magic Power, though there are some exceptions such as Edolas Items that are powered by Lacrima.", so the attack used by Gildarts against August wasn't really holder type. Gildarts didn't need an external source to use that magic.

I wouldn't take the "he can copy any caster magic" statement too seriously....

August never said it himself, only Gildarts said that and this is what he said, "August can't copy holder magic" It was never stated he can copy all types of Caster magic. Second Generation DS need dragon Lacrima to use magic. Dragon Lacrima is a magical Item which means August can't copy it

Since crush is caster type magic, I wonder why it worked against August?

 

[inactive lurker account]

Yo! guys it's stated that holder magic, "is Magic that requires a Mage to use an external source to produce the Magic. It usually requires the use of Magic Power, though there are some exceptions such as Edolas Items that are powered by Lacrima.", so the attack used by Gildarts against August wasn't really holder type. Gildarts didn't need an external source to use that magic.

I wouldn't take the "he can copy any caster magic" statement too seriously....

August never said it himself, only Gildarts said that and this is what he said, "August can't copy holder magic" It was never stated he can copy all types of Caster magic. Second Generation DS need dragon Lacrima to use magic. Dragon Lacrima is a magical Item which means August can't copy it

Since crush is caster type magic, I wonder why it worked against August?

You rightly point out that the current interpretation of the restriction is mainly based on Gildarts' hypothesis rather than a definitive axiomatic statement. But this makes me wonder, in Fairy Tail, how many definitive axiomatic statements are given to us not via character statements, but from some disembodied third-person voice standing in for Hiro's authority? If there are none, and one adopts a very strict standard, then almost everything is up for grabs.

As for loopholes, it seems to me that all it takes to bypass August's cancellation and replication ability is by coursing the magic through some medium or conduit. What bothers me then is why the caster's body is not considered a medium, but an artifact is. Anyway, an interesting implication for this would be that God Serena from a distance can hypothetically make cannons out of earth and then launch his fire magic through them, forcing August to counter with his arsenal of already-copied spells. August would still have the advantage, assuming he has copied and retained so many, and moreover knows the circumstances and conditions for each of his spells to work well

Oh well, it's not as if Hiro wanted to imagine a systematic world for this series...

 

[kkck]

Realistically speaking, even if August couldn't nullify serenas magic the odds would still be severely against serena. August would still have the edge in terms of sheer raw power along with however many magics he has seen. The guy even managed to cause natsu damage with a fire attack... Regardless of the technicalities that might occur in the fight, the manga went well out of its way to make the point that august was well above the other springan. The only one that stood a chance was irene and even then August was her boss.