-Bruh, u deny and in tht very same line u agree u assume enough durability ? What r this contradictions ? There is no linear scale here for word enough.
And why human aldo and human selene, the simple thing is take away seed aldo, take away MP of aldo and yet just as an island or land mass full of wood, destruction of tht scale is a feat in itself .
Yes, u can attribute tht wood is inherently weak to fire and all tht, even so damage of tht scale is the point. An established feat.
Again, let me reiterate what i said before
Overall 100 % aldoron = 100% selene based on what ? Selene with her mp and mp blasts could be a monster in her own right and way above alodron too . Their only comparison comes from rank , which can be attributed to many things. some have tact, some manipulate, some can endure, some can attack etc.
My point being u r being too linear abt comparison and binding it to attk, def, endurance, durability. Selene could be considered a monster because of her MP like mavis and not because of physical attributes. Just be versatile.
Their rank is akin to Magic council's ranks, all unique in their own way. It is far fetching it and binding it into mere linear scales and parameters. And as for attk potency, u forgot to take natsu's flames color into consideration because u know flames can be powerful and have more temp based on its color
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So, all in all, this linear scales has way too many assumptions. For example, why shld seed aldoron be 15%, can't it be 85% of remaining and only 15% distributed to other seeds ?
Imo, aldoron was special due to tht sheer size , selene due to mp, ignia due to destruction he causes.
Bruh, August was coughing up blood from tht one mechanical arm hit from gilboi and then resorted to suicide, the thing i hate to this day. Without his staff, he became useless. And the thing u r talking abt in zeref's case is not durability, but endurance.
I only agreed that just because DGs are in same tier, doesn't mean every stat are equivalent.
I disagree that it's easier to take down 100% Selene than heavily nerfed Aldo. Aldo may be much more durable than Selene, but I have my personal cap on how much discrepancy can be allowed, before concluding that they don't belong in the same tier.
You may disagree with this, that's fine. It's a personal thing. If x can be taken down far far easier than y can, they aren't in same tier
The only exception to this (personal) rule for me is when hax is involved.
Both aren't really contradictory.
Oh, I misunderstood. You don't agree with the premise that the five DGs are comparable to each other overall? I see.
Overall, 100% Aldo and 100% Selene are comparable because that's what is indicated in manga. Each DG are comparable to each other, and a fight between them can go either way.
Eleferia said that they are all comparable to Acnologia, this is comparison to a single entity, indicating portrayal that they are all around the same level. Selene herself said in the beginning of the arc, that a fight between her and any other DGs can go either way.
Having pure MP, but it not translating to attack, defence, speed etc means little.
Let's say x and y both have 100 magic. But x has 20 stats, while y has 100 stats. And both x and y don't have any hax. y >> x in this case, y would destroy x in a fight.
If a fight between them "can go either way", then they, necessarily, have to be comparable in overall stats. If hax isn't a thing. MP alone means little.
You are asking why I made assumption of Aldo being nerfed to 15%? It's because I assumed each GS going down was contributing to 1/5th of power being nerfed, and I assumed Aldo woke up at 75% to begin with.
You talk about a hypothetical of 85% was with Aldo seed and only 15% was distributed to the rest? I myself considered a similar scenario, but came to conclude that this wasn't the case.
Because whenever a seed went down, the nerf to Aldo seed was significant. The difference was (non DF) Natsu being unable to even perceive Aldo seed's attacks. To it becoming slow enough for Natsu to perceive it. To becoming slow enough that not only Natsu could perceive it, but also keep up and dodge. The nerf was definitely more than being nerfed to 85%
It doesn't make sense to think each seed is of same power level as Aldo seed of course, since we know that isn't the case. But it somewhat make sense that the health and status of these seeds directly affect Aldo seed. Think of them like proverbial body parts of Aldoron
Maybe you disagree with "Aldo was nerfed to 15%".
But it certainly isn't 85%.
Aldo seed was observably nerfed to a state weaker than even half his strength. The degree of weakness is the difference between Natsu not even being able to perceive, vs Natsu being able to perceive and dodge.
Yeah, August had a bloodly lip.
August had no particular issues, he was only minorly injured.
While Gildarts lost his ONLY MEANS OF DAMAGE to August, and became crippled in the process. Finishing off Gildarts at that point was mere formality. But August used ars magica because he's a retard, as simple as that. There was zero reason for him to use it, when his victory was 100% confirmed
2- Again , there is no base to assume physical stats were near equal to begin with. Aldoron could be elf man alike and selene mavis alike .
We don't even know what selene could do in dragon form, or what aspects she has besides her MP.
I didn't say physical stats alone.
Stats include magic attack power and spell power as well.
3-Agreed, suzaku's attack is deadly in terms of speed else in terms of strength , natsu would very well easily be above him. Like i m saying earlier, u r going way too linear with comparisons
Even ignoring the entire Selene fight, Suzaku one shotted Erza and base Natsu. He has pretty good attack power as well.
My point anyway was that what Suzaku did to Selene, overall, is more impressive than what DF Natsu to Aldo. If you disagree with this, sorry, we'll just have to disagree
Now, it is my personal opinion that Suzaku's attack was more deadly than DF Natsu's. Based on my assumption about Selene's durability. If you disagree with this, THAT IS FINE.
See it now?
The first point for me is non negotiable. Because Suzaku defeated an overall stronger opponent than DF Natsu did. So, Suzaku's overall performance is better.
The latter is negotiable for me. If you disagree with it, I can see where you are coming from, even though I will still disagree. Because we both have different assumptions about Selene's durability, and still understand where you're coming from.
4-No, I meant selene. Her strong point is shown to be her distorting ability and huge magic, not physical abilities at all. So, suzaku beating her speaks of his feats in speed and being able to overcome her human body mp. How does it remotely say anything abt physcial attributes ? So, him beating her can't be used as a strong base to say he can beat natsu.
The only thing noteworthy is suzaku's speed and precision.
Speed and attack potency. What do you mean by precision? That is attack potency, his attacks are powerful enough to cut down powerful foes.
He tanked everything Selene threw at him, so he's good in defence/dura as well.
Naah man, not even human acno u can use benchmark because tht one was a monster in a sense of physical attributes as well as MP tht he had no preference for elements but magic itself.
Aldoron could be very well be size, selene magic, merc is trash basically.
They should be comparable in stats based on Elefseria's statement.
The fight between any DG and Acno would go similar to Acno vs Igneel IMO, a high diff win for Acno. Why can't the DGs be as powerful, since Igneel was? Igneel's own son is a DG
How is Merc trash? While not even being half his full power, he no sold every attack with slayer advantage, thrown at him by x793 team Natsu. To put it in perspective, x792 Erza could one shot dragon Eileen with slayer advantage.
Nerfed Merc needed DF Natsu + Ignia powerup to be defeated. He was defeated by the strongest form of Natsu till date. A bit underwhelming, yes. But understandable since the guy wasn't even at half his power.
But yeah, since when have people started taking the diablos trash so seriously ?
They r meant to come, win round one and then lose horribly the following rounds to even lesser fighters. Ffs, kyria beating merc, i have read people mention and tht very kyria was koed by laxus easily, makes laxus way above human merc, does it not ?
Way to ignore context man.
Kyria destroyed a Merc who had all his power stolen by white witch. White witch can change the victim's MP from zero to full, whenever she pleases. If Merc even had half his powers, Kyria would've been instantly one shot.
So, what i agree is we can argue on stuffs, but here when DGs r in play, we have to increase versatility. Without a doubt, suzaku's feat is impressive, but tht could very well be ruse as u said.
And if team natsu beats this monster, which was born due to selene distorting the world, once again scales will be different.
Yeah. I'll take everything I said here back if Suzaku vs Selene was a troll by Mashima.
As for the Alta face thing, we'll have to see. We don't know how powerful it is or what it can do, or if it will even be defeated
And don't do maths calculation, because if u do, u have to take into acct color of flame, environment parameters like humidity, density of wood, the molecular binding, water content in it etc etc etc
Ffs, we had bluenote's black hole, which shldn't exist or shld be burnt because it shld suck in everything but it couldn't . My point being application of scientific knowledge is useless here.
Like see, natsu was facing suzaku, we know he can turn his heat up to a point where it burns time, yet he didn't turn on his fire while facing suzaku and melting away his very blade . See, how logic fails here
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Well, lmao, at least pixel calculations r out of business now. Back in the day, people used to use pixel calculations and i m like what ? How tf did u calculate the angle from which the said scene is drawn, the magnification ratio and so on. Since when hadd author tried and calculated ratio aspects and such to show pls via art ?
I'm no fan of calcs too lmao. I just used it because I had to, in that conversation.
Personally I think calcs is very flawed and unreliable. I've seen people argue x791 Jellal is continental, because they use Mashima's drawing, which had curvature of Earth or something, when he drew Sema's explosion. I find the entire thing ridiculous.
Any way, energy density of all encompassing. Be it color of flame or whatever. That is the reason why I use that term specifically, without going into details
The crux of my argument is purely based on scaling comparable characters, and nothing more.
If x and y beat characters comparable in overall stats, without any hax or immunity or something, then x and y are comparable in overall stats. It's that simple for me
. Here he refers to the white wizard has a he then turns out to be faris is a she
