Last 16: Match up 6!: Marco vs. Gol D. Roger | Page 2 | MangaHelpers



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Last 16: Match up 6!: Marco vs. Gol D. Roger

Who wins?

  • Marco

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • Gol D. Roger

    Votes: 38 63.3%

  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .
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jaymizzo

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I think the point is brilliant, well thought out, and well described. Only problem is, as a massive football follower (and yes, I do mean the football that is more than 17 minutes of action) I have seen Pele play. I'd say Diego Marradona - hand of god aside - was a truly sensational footballer, but Messi I'd rate as better than Pele. Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't strike me as an incredible footballer, he's far far too arrogant and is convinced he's flawless.

Ronaldo and Zidane were both great footballers, but had the benefit of a brilliant team to play with. Think of Real Madrid's team at that point - Casillas, Salagdo, Helguera, Samuel, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, Guti, Figo, Raul... All of them are legends in their own right. Gol D. Roger had crewmembers like Shanks, Buggy (who despite what people say, is an incredible leader) and freaking Rayleigh. Gol didn't do it alone.,,
Not to start a football argument, but in what ways would you say Messi is better than Pele? Especially as a striker... You can mail me the answer, just curious.

I still dont understand how these tourneys work, i mean seriously, shouldnt there be a rule against using characters with little to no showings in the manga on fantasy fights? Especially people like Roger etc who we can only speculate theyre true strength... Which logically means everything we say is bascially not cannon :/

Marco should logically win this, but fandom and hype will get the better of the votes
 

Leonsagara

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If it were an admiral or WB or Shanks against Roger, I would probably vote for them over Roger. Marco might have shown some feats, but not enough to make me think he's Roger's level.
 

jaymizzo

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If it were an admiral or WB or Shanks against Roger, I would probably vote for them over Roger. Marco might have shown some feats, but not enough to make me think he's Roger's level.
Marco is very easily Admiral level... Doesnt make sense not to vote for him because he is not an Admiral.

And it is not about him being Rogers level, dont think anyone is saying that, its that Roger has shown nothing in the manga therefore his powers are non existent until shown. He cant Magically beat Marco and if anyone thinks he can they should provide proof of how that happens. Just because it is Roger doesnt mean he gets the win out of hype. Hype might scare some pirates away, but i doubt Marco the phoenix is going to forfeit because of hype.
 
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darkprince0521

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i am finding it very funny. people are saying that they shouldn't vote for Roger because he hasn't shown anything; yet they say Garp is strong because he cornered Roger several times.... :gwah
 

Sachsenhesse

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Garp is strong because he cornered Roger several times....
well no, that guys they argue like that, are the same ones going for roger(or dragon)

garp has shown some feets by himself, be it mastery of haki(hitting luffy all day long), tankstamina (got a friggin axearm to his chest while sleeping and still laughed about it) etc.

roger himself.... well he was seen with a pistol once
 

darkprince0521

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well no, that guys they argue like that, are the same ones going for roger(or dragon)

garp has shown some feets by himself, be it mastery of haki(hitting luffy all day long), tankstamina (got a friggin axearm to his chest while sleeping and still laughed about it) etc.

roger himself.... well he was seen with a pistol once

uh well..... see the final post here

"Something I was thinking about today - When Shiki was captured by the marines, they sent 2 guys to do it. Sengoku, who's top brass, has an incredible DF, and is one of the most powerful marines there is, and Garp. Not Kong, not Akianu (or any equivalent admiral), not a Shikibukai, Garp. Shiki was deemed a rival to Gol D. Roger, he escaped from Impel Down, and was only beaten by a very, very lucky Luffy. So the fact they chose to send Garp over anyone else says a lot about his power..."
 

Sachsenhesse

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Jeah. But unfortunality fpr you, we know about Shiki abilities quite well and saw him fight in the movie. ^^

Anyway i really dont really need to defend kazu but some posts before:

I'd be inclined to say that in an all-out battle, Dragon would win it, but that's all speculation, and based on what we've seen Garp is definitely the favourite. I'm not voting in this, there's no way of knowing who'll win.
See? He even says dragon is possible stronger, but we have seen more from garp, so he will not vote dragon. Same as here with roger. From both we have seen nothing but a glimpse, so they loose against a worthy opponent. (atleast thats what i hope, because we got some fights we are really nice and fun to discuss... jus take enel and blackbeard, from both we know the abilities and strength --> 6 Pages. Here it is "roger hasnt shown anything yet" or "roger is pirateking". That isnt fun at all. xD
 

darkprince0521

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Jeah. But unfortunality fpr you, we know about Shiki abilities quite well and saw him fight in the movie. ^^

Anyway i really dont really need to defend kazu but some posts before:



See? He even says dragon is possible stronger, but we have seen more from garp, so he will not vote dragon. Same as here with roger. From both we have seen nothing but a glimpse, so they loose against a worthy opponent. (atleast thats what i hope, because we got some fights we are really nice and fun to discuss... jus take enel and blackbeard, from both we know the abilities and strength --> 6 Pages. Here it is "roger hasnt shown anything yet" or "roger is pirateking". That isnt fun at all. xD
first of all, i also said in that very thread that Garp is strong, may be past his prime, but still one of the strongest. but what does that mean? Garp hasn't shown anything much; actually all we know about him is comment of other manga characters; not more than that. the feats he has in the manga, doesn't reflect his true strength. at the end, Garp's strength is speculation as well.

and i know what Kazu-Sama said. that Garp is one of the most powerful marines there is; and as one of the facts he has stated When Shiki was captured by the marines, they sent 2 guys to do it. why Shiki is so important to prove Garp as strong? he has stated two reasons one of them involves escaping from Impel Down and the other one is Shiki was deemed a rival to Gol D. Roger.

anyway, this thread isn't about Garp, but about Roger and Marco. so i should return there. and i can understand your reasoning as well. that speculation on unknown powers isn't a good thing. well i may agree with that. but there are few things.

let's say, it was Marco vs Ben Beckman. we don't know anything about Ben Beckman, so anything about him would be a speculation. but i have an idea what might be his level and then i would have voted for Marco without any doubt. i would even say it myself that we shouldn't declare Ben Beckman the winner based on assumptions.

but if it was Ben Beckman Vs Buggy? even though i know many things about Buggy and i know very little about Ben Beckman, I still would have voted for Ben Beckman. the logic about speculation shouldn't be a concern here.

and if the match up was Roger Vs Whitebeard? then i would have voted for Whitebeard, and not Roger.
 

Kazu-Sama

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Well, since we're all quoting me, this is what I had to say on Shiki's power in the battle Royale

Freddichio said:
I fail to see how this isn't a matter of reputation. The fact that people like Rogers, Shanks (+ crew) and even Big Mom were even in this to me seems wrong. How can we compare what we can't see? Reputation and force alone don't necessarily account for wins - Luffy was definitely weaker than Enel in the Skypeia arc, and even in this tournament Killer had a much better reputation than Buggy, however the fact of one piece is that the stronger pirate doesn't always win. Now, I'm not saying Roger would lose this fight - he WAS the pirate king, after all - but voting Roger/Shanks mindlessly seems pointless. I enjoy debating strengths and weaknesses, being able to analyse how two abilities would match up, and Rogers/Shanks are basically an automatic win button. It just ruins the whole point of this tournament. Ask anyone who watches/reads One Piece who they think the strongest pirate ever was, and odds are they'll say either Whitebeard, Shanks or Rogers. We already know that - why have a tournament to show what we already know?

Now, back to the fight - I think Luffy was fortunate against Shiki - during the first encounter he effortlessly defeated Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper, at the same time. Following that, he beat Luffy again, using water this time. Now, were it not for Billy the baby Zapdos electric bird, the trick by Usopp and Nami to draw Shiki into a storm cloud, AND the fact Shiki, upon seeing Luffy place his foot into a storm cloud was anticipating Luffy being electrocuted as opposed to using it to power a kick, Luffy would have lost again. The mere fact that Zoro survived Enel's attack shows us that Enel wasn't being 100% serious, as he definitely expected to be able to kill Luffy with electricity, and may I point out that the kick that beat Shiki was a lightning-imbued axe with enough power to destroy an entire floating island! Remember that lightning Enel used to strike down Zoro? When he grasped the swords and ran a current through them? Yeah, that didn't even leave a scratch on the floating island they were on. Saying 'Shiki must be weak because he was beaten by Luffy's kick when Enel didn't kill Zoro' is like saying 'Shanks must be weak because he lost his arm to a sea-king and even pre-SH Franky managed to beat one of those!' While the incidents mentioned are technically true, there was a lot more going on than the gross over-simplification that you've used. Shiki is - at the very least - similar to Crocodile in terms of strength - both beat Luffy twice, easily, before underestimating the SHs and losing. Now, the only reason I think Mihawk is stronger than Shiki is that Shiki's main weapons - swords and very very large things - are both the areas where Mihawk excels. Just the Don Kreig arc alone showed that - an entire battle fleet was taken out in one swing, and Zoro - who even then was a famous swordsman - was taken out with immense ease by Mihawk, who wasn't even trying AND using a dagger he normally uses for cutting up his food. Both are incredibly strong - in my opinion stronger than most characters we've seen in one piece short of the Yonkou, Rayleigh, and possibly some of the admirals - and as strong as Vista is the mere fact alone that Mihawk has the title of 'strongest swordsman' shows who'd be the victor in their battle... As for Pekoms, he's strong, has Haki, and good defences. He is one of the top of a Yonkou's crew, but at this level of the tournament that doesn't mean a great deal...
By the point I said Garp was strong for being sent out vs Shiki, I'd already posted this in the Battle Royale bit. The point being, Shiki was strong. Not strong based on what was said, strong based on what was shown. Yes, I mentioned his hype for fighting Rogers - the sole reason was to appeal to reputation voters. While some of the people here - Sachsenhesse and Jaymizzo, to name a couple, although there are lots more - argue with logic and based on what we've seen, the same can't be said of everyone. Mentioning Shiki vs Roger was a way of trying to convince those who are more awed by what someone says than what they do, nothing else.

Wait, why am I even defending myself? What does this have to do with the fight?
 
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astute_azure

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Roger easily.. since weakened Whitebeard >> Marco.. Prime Whitebeard == Roger if not Roger >= Whitebeard. Some misinterpret RIVAL as EQUAL, they are not. To reason out. Only Whitebeard can be compared to Roger in terms of overall strength. Though there are silver medalists like Garp, Shiki. They were really never that strong enough to be equal with Roger. Otherwise Whitebeard would never be proclaimed the strongest in the manga. Remember he got that title only after Roger died.

Shiki was known for his armada, which Roger and crew destroyed(with a little luck). Garp was on constant chase and had numerous battles with Roger, was never really able to defeat Roger. Even Shiki was surprised when Roger was captured/killed. He knows of how strong Roger was and came up to the conclusion that Roger would not have been captured/executed.

Marco is strong, and whoever voted for Marco should also defend that Marco can defeat Whitebeard. Else, all arguments for Marco becomes nonsense. lol
 

Sachsenhesse

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*hits head constantly against wall*

that is just sad guys :(
 

jaymizzo

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Hype trumps logic again. I dont understand what the point is
 

Sir Amigo

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Marco is strong, and whoever voted for Marco should also defend that Marco can defeat Whitebeard. Else, all arguments for Marco becomes nonsense. lol
I like your logic. So because Marco was the right hand of WB, he is automatically weaker than WB and Shanks and all the pirates of the old era. If you follow this logic, BB was also an underling of WB, so now he is automatically weaker than Marco, Ace, Jozu etc?

Interesting :)
 
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