Chapter - Shingeki no Kyojin 139 FINALE Chapter Discussion | Page 11 | MangaHelpers



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Chapter Shingeki no Kyojin 139 FINALE Chapter Discussion

What do you think about the ending (you may change your vote later)?


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Equaling Heaven

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As someone who valued freedom, Eren was the only user of the founding titan who understood Ymir’s situation. His talk in the alternate scenario with Mikasa showed that he could have been selfish and chosen love over his people, but he decided to become a martyr anyway. Eren had a choice at small points, Ymir not really. You can argue that Ymir didn’t deserve a second chance, and I see where you come from, but I think it wouldn’t be out of character for Eren to sympathize with her.
I don't think so. In the conversation it's said that even when Ymir attained the power that rivaled God, she chose to be bound to the pig Fritz - I forbid myself of calling that man by a title such as King. She had a choice, just like Eren. The difference being Eren and Mikasa did the right thing. They sacrificed their love while she was still in a tantrum because of hers even after 2000 years.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I agree with most things you said above, but not with the idea of giving Ymir a second chance.
 

Asako

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I should stop delaying this...

Well honestly, this ending hit hard, loved seeing the talk between Armin and eren, a last one on one talk between two friends that started just as curious boys in thirst of the outside world
I'm a real fan of bittersweet ending, feel like they the most ending that memorable and stick with time, it's also the kinda of ending that make the fandom active even after it's gone, tho i be lying if i said i didn't want it to be more bittersweet xD
Loop theory bye bye i guess

Really loved that we ended the chapter in the same spot as when we begun...with eren burial placement
It's also the same place akatsuki no requiem graveyard... Maybe you can say requiem was one of the ending if mikasa choose the wrong path and she died in the process

Didn't really expect tho to see eren act like that in the last chapter with his feelings about mikasa remembering him, make up your mind man, it's rather cruel to want that even when you're dead... I know the ending make it sounds like she won't move on but i really hope she let him go, it's depressing to cling onto a dead man you killed by your own hands
Mikasa should find happiness, just like armin said she shouldn't stay with a heartbreaker like eren :XD

Kinda expected everyone will be back from being titans, after all the end had to be with the curse being broken so there's that

Historia baby ended up as not much importance so that's a bummer.... Expect to see more symbolism with it in the final chapter

Also guys, don't forget that the one who wanted to live died wishing to be with mikasa while we have the one who been wishing for death all this series make it out alive in the end :derp
Reiner make did out alive :rofl

Boy, I'm supposed to be making an emotional post but instead here am i laughing... I totally blame the eagle eren pic i saw after i read the chapter, it totally destroyed my crying mood


I have to mention tho, when Armin said "thank you for committing mass genocide for us eren"
Boy that's messed up wording, i know what you mean Armin but fix your wording, that's not something to thank someone for ....


Also yea ymir seems to have a serious case of Stockholm syndrome like uber said, she literally have no reason to fall in love with that prick that just used her as a war weapon

Well this been a fun ride, i been following this manga since eren kidnapping.... Too bad every arc he was kidnapped so you have no idea what arc I'm talking about :XD
Saying it's around kenny vs levy fight is easy i guess, it's also around the time when i still have my a desktop and was downloading SnK chapters on it, fun times..... It died that same year .... Will forever remember you, oh my shitty computer, SnK is literally the only mamga i download in it to read it

Well i been reading the manga for a long time, but i definitely didn't join this forum at that time... Well in fact even now I'm rarely here, just stalking you guys in the background when a new chapter comes out and i only did it in this last big arc.... So i guess I don't have as much attachment as you guys to this place but it will definitely remembered with all it's crazy theory... And eren simps in this arc

Fun times....fun times

And with that i leave with this... My dedicated post goes to this character


I feel the same girl... I feel the same
I totally understand you
 
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leiatte

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A space worm? what space worm? I think you may be confusing AoT with another manga you are reading, if Isayama introduced a worm that has god powers, we would see it in the final chapter now wouldn't we?
Silver lining is that the anime may expand on the space worm battle. It would feel more jarring in the anime than the manga to have the space worm off-screened, even if it is off-screened in the anime too I feel they have a chance to have the characters reflect on it.
 

AndyTheAMPanda

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I don't think so. In the conversation it's said that even when Ymir attained the power that rivaled God, she chose to be bound to the pig Fritz - I forbid myself of calling that man by a title such as King. She had a choice, just like Eren. The difference being Eren and Mikasa did the right thing. They sacrificed their love while she was still in a tantrum because of hers even after 2000 years.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I agree with most things you said above, but not with the idea of giving Ymir a second chance.
Can someone who was in Ymir's mental state even be capable of choosing? I suppose so, but I would call Ymir's motives less a tantrum and more of her being messed-up in the head. I mean, who in their right mind would fall in love with an abusive, tyrannical piece of shit who killed their parents, ripped out their tongue, forced to marry him, wanted to hunt them, constantly cheated and only saw them as a tool? Eren even described Ymir as someone who agonized because of her feelings of "love" (which I wouldn't call love, more of a sick obsession or a mechanism for coping with all the shit she had to go through). Mikasa being the key for her realizing how she was wrong was great, but with the pacing and not a lot of foreshadowing it felt sudden to me, specially considering we've seen a lot of wholesome relationships, romantic or otherwise through the story.

I get that Eren not getting a chance to be free while Ymir does could be jarring, but being a tragic character was the way Eren was written no matter what happened with Ymir afterwards. It's just that IMO Eren offering Ymir the chance to experience freedom and true love would have given Ymir more depth instead of having what is arguably the character with most impact in the story relegated to just a narrative tool. But these are just the ramblings of someone who was merely satisfied with the ending, and maybe I'm reaching to give Historia's child some plot relevance. Besides the parasite and the buildup to the pregnancy subplot, everything else clicked perfectly at the end, at least to me. After watching the anime adaptation I might be less bothered by this two single aspects which probably only I consider big flaws as I am currently.
 
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weixiaobao

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Now that I think about it, I am super glad it didn’t have the edgy “eren kills everyone because he bad person now”. I feel (many people will disagree) it would be an injustice to the characters and make it to empty. I mean don’t get me wrong I like a good dark ending but even then it just doesn’t feel right for me. I like that eren wasn’t this psychotic killer and still had feelings for his friends and I feel that was where the big dissapointment was. Eren wasn’t this heartless and cold killer yet we wanted him to push to a place he clearly wasn’t at. Even with all of what he went through, he still had a heart somewhere.
Don't know why you focus on "good and evil" when it is more down to whether a person sane or insane. When Thanos want to snap away half of lives in the universe so that everyone have better lives. Is he as adorkable as Eren? Is he not a villain? Is he even sane? Give you a hint, they called him the mad Titan. And the problem there is, well, if going by the population curve, it ain't taking that long for any population to double. So I guess Thanos would have snap his finger over and over and over again lol. When weld absolute power, his imagination is so limited to not able to find simple solution to his problem. How about endless resources. Endless renewable energy.

I think people take comfort if Eren was crazy and insane, because then you can blame on PTSD or trauma or whatever. But rational cold calculation, it makes one feel unease. Because we see it before in human's history. Holocaust, genocide, nuclear bomb. I think I actually addressed all of your points in an early post up this thread somewhere. This is nothing more than the thought experiment of Nuclear first strike. I said up thread somewhere that Marco's last word of "talk it out" which haunt Reiner is really powerful. https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...hapter-discussion.3018924/page-5#post-5481817

In Ravages of Time, these two ideas clashes. Sima Yi want a bloodied style rival that of the Red Wedding to end the suffering of war quickly. End the war at any cost. Whereas Zhuge Liang would rather avoid that to preserve morality and values. Even series like Kingdom, where the PROTAGONIST want extermination, and genocide in the name of unification and peace. Of course, history told us, that empire last a meager 15 years. Peace achieved by that sort of meant, may not always work out. And that is the ending of AoT, nothing is certain.

Btw, as a former military member and actually have mental health diagnosis. I don't know how you can think Eren is anything but psychotic. A sane person wouldn't make those choices. lol, the last few weeks, I am start to hear voices in my head especially at night. Thinking about how real it is physiologically, despite the logical part of my brain know that it isn't. Ain't it any different than hearing the voices of God, or seeing imagery that you think must happen. That is pretty crazy. The author only incorporate that element in after he saw the Game of throne episode the Door (or actually the one with the Tower of Joy), where one of the character was able to influenced the past. As far as I know, maybe he had some ideas before that.

*At least you aren't one of those people who think Eren is in the right. Holy cow, I stumble upon a couple of them. And I hope dear God. That they never in the position of power. To be honest, the scope of the story shouldn't have been this big. Once it got to be this big, I don't think anyone could write a satisfy ending.

*IN summary, my disagreement is over whether he is psychotic or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ever since the Buddha showed up in Record of Ragnarok, I remember the phrase (to me associate with Buddhism) if you don't go to hell, who would? To me, it meant to do the hard thing, and sometimes the morally hard thing. For a Buddhist that came to the famous trolley problem. Do you do nothing, and let 5 people die. Or do you do something and save 5 people, but in the course of that murder an innocent bystander that would not have die if you didn't do anything. The boring Buddhist answer would be throw himself on the track and cause the trolley go off rail saving all 6. But if that isn't an option, "the going to hell part" is being the person to make that morally complicated choice to save another person from the guilt and sin of making that choice. Kill 1 to save 5. And suffered the consequence for that action. But that isn't a A or B situation like Wanda had to face in the last episode of Wandavision. Though with that one, I actually go with harming the majority. I don't think Eren embodied that phrase at all. He killed the majority of the population, leaving the world with potential chaos. Have you see a country after bomb campaign or this case Eren flatten everything. No infrastructure, no law, no order, shortage of resource, extremely high tension.

I am okay with the ambivalent ending that nothing really is solved. Which is preferable between Code Geass and Watchmen. The former said that tactic would work, the latter said that tactic may not work. But in all these cases, it is killing a few to save or bring peace to the majority. In Eren's case, the decision didn't need to happen like that in term of agency or how it happened. It crossed into the dilemma of Wandavision, where I think you are more obligate to the children that you bring into the world and or people that you owed something to over random strangers. In essence, all lives are not equal objectively and subjectively.

But what Eren did make no sense to me. How can he be so sure that it will happen the way he see it, especially those future isn't just necessary just depend on his action. And in the process of doing what he did, he almost killed and could have killed everyone he held dear to. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't. In fact quite a few die to get them to where they were in order to face him.

To be honest, if you applied outside logic. All they have to do is destroyed all those serums, so no one can transformed into titans. And since there is no other physiological trait that separate them with the normal population. Because if there were, then the whole squad couldn't have infiltrate the mainland. And beside, there are countries that totally cool with Eldians anyway. Then just mix in there, and no one can tell. And who know, after many generation of mix breeding, the Eldian gene may just dilute enough to irrelevant. Use the founder titan power to brainwashed the mainland Eldians and erase their hatred. Then there are the 9 titans. Have someone eat up every other titans when they close to dying and have all 9 in one person. And pass it down to an elected or well regarded person of the community. Then keep passing it down to people in their 50 or 60. So that at least they live a full life. Problem solved. Marley wouldn't even be a threat to world peace, because their number one weapon, the titans, are not in their possession this way.

Peace is not permanent, nor is a total just world can be achieve. But there is always meaning to thrive for that regardless.

To be honest, if happened in the real world, anyone with the attack titan, probably just hanged themselves.
 
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Lil meen

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Don't know why you focus on "good and evil" when it is more down to whether a person sane or insane. When Thanos want to snap away half of lives in the universe so that everyone have better lives. Is he as adorkable as Eren? Is he not a villain? Is he even sane? Give you a hint, they called him the mad Titan. And the problem there is, well, if going by the population curve, it ain't taking that long for any population to double. So I guess Thanos would have snap his finger over and over and over again lol. When weld absolute power, his imagination is so limited to not able to find simple solution to his problem. How about endless resources. Endless renewable energy.

I think people take comfort if Eren was crazy and insane, because then you can blame on PTSD or trauma or whatever. But rational cold calculation, it makes one feel unease. Because we see it before in human's history. Holocaust, genocide, nuclear bomb. I think I actually addressed all of your points in an early post up this thread somewhere. This is nothing more than the thought experiment of Nuclear first strike. I said up thread somewhere that Marco's last word of "talk it out" which haunt Reiner is really powerful. https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...hapter-discussion.3018924/page-5#post-5481817

In Ravages of Time, these two ideas clashes. Sima Yi want a bloodied style rival that of the Red Wedding to end the suffering of war quickly. End the war at any cost. Whereas Zhuge Liang would rather avoid that to preserve morality and values. Even series like Kingdom, where the PROTAGONIST want extermination, and genocide in the name of unification and peace. Of course, history told us, that empire last a meager 15 years. Peace achieved by that sort of meant, may not always work out. And that is the ending of AoT, nothing is certain.

Btw, as a former military member and actually have mental health diagnosis. I don't know how you can think Eren is anything but psychotic. A sane person wouldn't make those choices. lol, the last few weeks, I am start to hear voices in my head especially at night. Thinking about how real it is physiologically, despite the logical part of my brain know that it isn't. Ain't it any different than hearing the voices of God, or seeing imagery that you think must happen. That is pretty crazy. The author only incorporate that element in after he saw the Game of throne episode the Door (or actually the one with the Tower of Joy), where one of the character was able to influenced the past. As far as I know, maybe he had some ideas before that.

*At least you aren't one of those people who think Eren is in the right. Holy cow, I stumble upon a couple of them. And I hope dear God. That they never in the position of power. To be honest, the scope of the story shouldn't have been this big. Once it got to be this big, I don't think anyone could write a satisfy ending.

*IN summary, my disagreement is over whether he is psychotic or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ever since the Buddha showed up in Record of Ragnarok, I remember the phrase (to me associate with Buddhism) if you don't go to hell, who would? To me, it meant to do the hard thing, and sometimes the morally hard thing. For a Buddhist that came to the famous trolley problem. Do you do nothing, and let 5 people die. Or do you do something and save 5 people, but in the course of that murder an innocent bystander that would not have die if you didn't do anything. The boring Buddhist answer would be throw himself on the track and cause the trolley go off rail saving all 6. But if that isn't an option, "the going to hell part" is being the person to make that morally complicated choice to save another person from the guilt and sin of making that choice. Kill 1 to save 5. And suffered the consequence for that action. But that isn't a A or B situation like Wanda had to face in the last episode of Wandavision. Though with that one, I actually go with harming the majority. I don't think Eren embodied that phrase at all. He killed the majority of the population, leaving the world with potential chaos. Have you see a country after bomb campaign or this case Eren flatten everything. No infrastructure, no law, no order, shortage of resource, extremely high tension.

I am okay with the ambivalent ending that nothing really is solved. Which is preferable between Code Geass and Watchmen. The former said that tactic would work, the latter said that tactic may not work. But in all these cases, it is killing a few to save or bring peace to the majority. In Eren's case, the decision didn't need to happen like that in term of agency or how it happened. It crossed into the dilemma of Wandavision, where I think you are more obligate to the children that you bring into the world and or people that you owed something to over random strangers. In essence, all lives are not equal objectively and subjectively.

But what Eren did make no sense to me. How can he be so sure that it will happen the way he see it, especially those future isn't just necessary just depend on his action. And in the process of doing what he did, he almost killed and could have killed everyone he held dear to. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't. In fact quite a few die to get them to where they were in order to face him.

To be honest, if you applied outside logic. All they have to do is destroyed all those serums, so no one can transformed into titans. And since there is no other physiological trait that separate them with the normal population. Because if there were, then the whole squad couldn't have infiltrate the mainland. And beside, there are countries that totally cool with Eldians anyway. Then just mix in there, and no one can tell. And who know, after many generation of mix breeding, the Eldian gene may just dilute enough to irrelevant. Use the founder titan power to brainwashed the mainland Eldians and erase their hatred. Then there are the 9 titans. Have someone eat up every other titans when they close to dying and have all 9 in one person. And pass it down to an elected or well regarded person of the community. Then keep passing it down to people in their 50 or 60. So that at least they live a full life. Problem solved. Marley wouldn't even be a threat to world peace, because their number one weapon, the titans, are not in their possession this way.

Peace is not permanent, nor is a total just world can be achieve. But there is always meaning to thrive for that regardless.

To be honest, if happened in the real world, anyone with the attack titan, probably just hanged themselves.
I actually agree with you I should have worded it better. I was saying that I am glad eren had depth to his character rather than being this “righteous hero” or “cartoonish villain.
 

mrsticky005

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The final chapter was GARBAGE

It didn’t even show how Marcel died!

What the hell Isayama!?
I need ANSWERS!
 

SonOfDaws

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Don't know why you focus on "good and evil" when it is more down to whether a person sane or insane. When Thanos want to snap away half of lives in the universe so that everyone have better lives. Is he as adorkable as Eren? Is he not a villain? Is he even sane? Give you a hint, they called him the mad Titan. And the problem there is, well, if going by the population curve, it ain't taking that long for any population to double. So I guess Thanos would have snap his finger over and over and over again lol. When weld absolute power, his imagination is so limited to not able to find simple solution to his problem. How about endless resources. Endless renewable energy.

I think people take comfort if Eren was crazy and insane, because then you can blame on PTSD or trauma or whatever. But rational cold calculation, it makes one feel unease. Because we see it before in human's history. Holocaust, genocide, nuclear bomb. I think I actually addressed all of your points in an early post up this thread somewhere. This is nothing more than the thought experiment of Nuclear first strike. I said up thread somewhere that Marco's last word of "talk it out" which haunt Reiner is really powerful. https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...hapter-discussion.3018924/page-5#post-5481817

In Ravages of Time, these two ideas clashes. Sima Yi want a bloodied style rival that of the Red Wedding to end the suffering of war quickly. End the war at any cost. Whereas Zhuge Liang would rather avoid that to preserve morality and values. Even series like Kingdom, where the PROTAGONIST want extermination, and genocide in the name of unification and peace. Of course, history told us, that empire last a meager 15 years. Peace achieved by that sort of meant, may not always work out. And that is the ending of AoT, nothing is certain.

Btw, as a former military member and actually have mental health diagnosis. I don't know how you can think Eren is anything but psychotic. A sane person wouldn't make those choices. lol, the last few weeks, I am start to hear voices in my head especially at night. Thinking about how real it is physiologically, despite the logical part of my brain know that it isn't. Ain't it any different than hearing the voices of God, or seeing imagery that you think must happen. That is pretty crazy. The author only incorporate that element in after he saw the Game of throne episode the Door (or actually the one with the Tower of Joy), where one of the character was able to influenced the past. As far as I know, maybe he had some ideas before that.

*At least you aren't one of those people who think Eren is in the right. Holy cow, I stumble upon a couple of them. And I hope dear God. That they never in the position of power. To be honest, the scope of the story shouldn't have been this big. Once it got to be this big, I don't think anyone could write a satisfy ending.

*IN summary, my disagreement is over whether he is psychotic or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ever since the Buddha showed up in Record of Ragnarok, I remember the phrase (to me associate with Buddhism) if you don't go to hell, who would? To me, it meant to do the hard thing, and sometimes the morally hard thing. For a Buddhist that came to the famous trolley problem. Do you do nothing, and let 5 people die. Or do you do something and save 5 people, but in the course of that murder an innocent bystander that would not have die if you didn't do anything. The boring Buddhist answer would be throw himself on the track and cause the trolley go off rail saving all 6. But if that isn't an option, "the going to hell part" is being the person to make that morally complicated choice to save another person from the guilt and sin of making that choice. Kill 1 to save 5. And suffered the consequence for that action. But that isn't a A or B situation like Wanda had to face in the last episode of Wandavision. Though with that one, I actually go with harming the majority. I don't think Eren embodied that phrase at all. He killed the majority of the population, leaving the world with potential chaos. Have you see a country after bomb campaign or this case Eren flatten everything. No infrastructure, no law, no order, shortage of resource, extremely high tension.

I am okay with the ambivalent ending that nothing really is solved. Which is preferable between Code Geass and Watchmen. The former said that tactic would work, the latter said that tactic may not work. But in all these cases, it is killing a few to save or bring peace to the majority. In Eren's case, the decision didn't need to happen like that in term of agency or how it happened. It crossed into the dilemma of Wandavision, where I think you are more obligate to the children that you bring into the world and or people that you owed something to over random strangers. In essence, all lives are not equal objectively and subjectively.

But what Eren did make no sense to me. How can he be so sure that it will happen the way he see it, especially those future isn't just necessary just depend on his action. And in the process of doing what he did, he almost killed and could have killed everyone he held dear to. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't. In fact quite a few die to get them to where they were in order to face him.

To be honest, if you applied outside logic. All they have to do is destroyed all those serums, so no one can transformed into titans. And since there is no other physiological trait that separate them with the normal population. Because if there were, then the whole squad couldn't have infiltrate the mainland. And beside, there are countries that totally cool with Eldians anyway. Then just mix in there, and no one can tell. And who know, after many generation of mix breeding, the Eldian gene may just dilute enough to irrelevant. Use the founder titan power to brainwashed the mainland Eldians and erase their hatred. Then there are the 9 titans. Have someone eat up every other titans when they close to dying and have all 9 in one person. And pass it down to an elected or well regarded person of the community. Then keep passing it down to people in their 50 or 60. So that at least they live a full life. Problem solved. Marley wouldn't even be a threat to world peace, because their number one weapon, the titans, are not in their possession this way.

Peace is not permanent, nor is a total just world can be achieve. But there is always meaning to thrive for that regardless.

To be honest, if happened in the real world, anyone with the attack titan, probably just hanged themselves.
Don't have time for a longer reply, but I agree with a majority of what you're saying and the like the thought process. It seems that measures of a life's worth can be made, but given the innate inaccuracy of any human measure and the infinite potential in life, there's little reason to dwell on such comparisons the vast majority of the time. Anyhow, disagreements here and there aside, I respect the thoughtful analysis.
 

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To those that think the ending didn't live up to the series, honestly shonens never had a good record with giving an ending that live up to the hype of the series, probably something with shonen jump going on not liking some type of ending for shonen
Yea it's pretty weird that only shonen gets bad ending looking at the record.... Tho i consider SnK did really well with tying up the ending, it's actually one of the best ending for shonen jumps in the pasts years

Tho that coming form someone that avoiding trying to hype itself and be disappointed at the end (i regret that too many times with shonen endings...)
I didn't expect a lot in one chapter and i got what i wanted
Seeing child eren and armin talk (could been better if mikasa was there as that's how my fantasy went with me) the curse breaks and eren yeeted in the backyard, everyone move on with life try to fix world problems
Happy ending


Okay maybe i could liked one more chapter seeing how exactly armin save the world with politics
 

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On balance, the ending was all right. It mostly tied up the ends left loose up to this point, surprisingly so, considering how many piled up by now, and how little room was left to do it. Some ties were more satisfying than others, but that is to be expected for such an intricate weave.

Although the Lelouch style ending has been discussed for almost a year now, Isayama threw enough curveballs near the end to make it unexpected. Still, reading the opening panels, I was struck by how closely they followed the projected script, down to the analogy with the world’s affection for the Tibers, which was likely highlighted in preparation for this ending. Although Eren’s Suzaku, Armin, is not the one to actually finish him, he takes the deed upon himself as far as the world is concerned. But I thought that his “thank you for turning into a mass murderer for us” looked a bit forced from such an emphatic champion of life and better ways.

One final twist was the unexpected importance of Mikasa. “To you, 2000 years from now” was not from Eren to Eren, it was from Ymir to Mikasa. Mikasa was to liberate Ymir from her attachment to the Fritz bloodline, which did turn out to be psychological rather than biologically forced. Or, perhaps, we should have seen it coming. Isayama should be generally praised for serious and consequential treatment of female characters, especially given shonen history in this regard. On the other hand, while I know that the “only Ymir would know” answer to why it was Mikasa was supposed to sound Pascalian, as in “the heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of”, but, I am afraid, it did not quite come off that sublime way.

“She was in pain wishing for freedom” is how love can turn into an obsession and a prison, and the theme is common in the classical literature. But we did not get pulled into Ymir’s unrequited love enough for it to become a grand symbol, a compelling explanation, let alone a justification for, all the suffering that people had to endure under the titan curse. Still, Mikasa’s attachment to Eren, which she finally overcame, provided the foreshadowing and an emotional answer to “why”. And Eren’s “I don’t want her to find another guy. I want her to only have feelings for me!” outburst was very humanizing, it was my favorite panel.

I think we can identify the centipede as the physical host of Ymir that goes into a final frenzy right before Mikasa’s liberating mission is fulfilled. Ymir is then released and the titan curse ends. Historia’s baby’s role turns out to be purely symbolic after all, she is the hope of the new world with no material part in either bringing it about or moving it forward. Zeke’s resurrection, considering its groundbreaking nature in the story, also seemed to promise a bigger follow up. Still, his sacrifice was needed to stop the Rumbling and hence to bring Mikasa to Eren’s head to end it all. The Yaeger brothers got to do the world’s dirtiest work and had to be punished for it in the service to the genre.

There is a dose of realism with the growth of militarism in post-Rumbling Paradis, but also hope represented by the ship of peacemakers. And it is, indeed, bittersweet that the manga ends under the same tree where it started, while breaking the cycle nonetheless..
 

grey matter

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There's also Mikasa being an asian princess that had 0 relevance to the plot XD

Like, I get it. Evidence that Isayama had to adapt his plans are there, some ideas seem to have been dropped halfway. The reasons why could be the editors/publisher; could be some discomfort with how a big amount of people reacted to the genocide topic and the responsibility he has over how his ideas are perceived by and delivered to readers; could be wtv. In the end, the final chapters still have charm, still convey emotions and debates. It takes someone with great writing skills and talent to be able to adapt an intricate setup and deliver a conclusion that still evokes deep reactions on people.

I think criticism is so damn important but the way it's done can be so damn unfair... Saying that the ending is different from expectations and apparent initial planning, that it's flawed and HENCE it's shit, looks precipitated to me. If people can't grow to enjoy something and provide the deserved praising (merits-based) unless it checks all subjective boxes they individually built for themselves, then Jesus that sounds like such a draining mindset... At the end of a work, we can for sure be honest about what we think, but recognition of the series AS A WHOLE and some appreciation and gratitude should be only natural as well.

Not saying those based on this community, it's just that the fandom can be so toxic XD It's kinda saddening to read some things across the internet. Many readers lack basic courtesy - the huge majority is not even paying for what they're getting.
He shouldn't really have cared about perception and gone through with his plans IMO, if what you were telling was true.

Anyone who reached AOT at this point should know it's not some kiddy hippy shit, if they're offended or sensitive about it, too fucking bad. If Isayama changed his story keeping these people in mind, that's extremely disappointing
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

So you're not wrong in that the ending was REALISTIC AND BELIEVABLE (in terms of where the world was left) it was just really UNSATISFYING. Code Geass had a much more satisfying way to conclude that plot thread. Ymir's actions weren't believable or consistent to her character development. Also, what happened to proteolithic ooey-gooey titan creature? It's not like Reiner managed to kill it - really they were just holding it back. It should've been perfectly capable of attaching onto another human being in the area after Mikasa finished off its present host, Eren. I mean, fuck, it independently made a whole bunch of titans by off-gassing.

So we have two characters being completely inconsistent with their prior motivations. Ymir, who had been seemingly been lashing out at the world ever since Eren freed her will, and The Titan parasite creature, whose motivation seemed to be procreational / survival - it needed or wanted a host. Consider it survived since the dawn of life until it met Ymir, and also survived a colossal-titan nuke without much notable damage, it should've been still good to go once Eren died. At the very least, no mention of it in the final chapter is a huge oversight.
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I don't think the ending was anywhere even close to being realistic lol. In a realistic scenario, Paradis would get destroyed as soon as the rest of the world get their military back together, this entire Lelouch 2.0 is a doomed plan to begin with.
I just meant that particular point about why Paradis is creating a strong military was realistic.

Yeah, I agree the ending was garbage. I never thought ymir's character would be so bad, same with the primordial Titan, wonder where TF that thing went LMAO. Ymir's fate is irrelevant to it, it existed before her and should continue to exist after her, which means Ymir's decision shouldn't really do anything regarding other Eldian's. The royal family is direct descendants of ymir, so that thing should have no problem taking over one, if compatibility was the issue. Pretty much all Eldians also have some of Ymir's blood as well to a lesser extend.
 

Farfalla

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I mean, Idk what happened, I was assuming. But it was more about how the story can shape people's mentality than about disappointing the readers that would be shocked about "an original not hippy happy plan".
 

mangah

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Don't know why you focus on "good and evil" when it is more down to whether a person sane or insane. When Thanos want to snap away half of lives in the universe so that everyone have better lives. Is he as adorkable as Eren? Is he not a villain? Is he even sane? Give you a hint, they called him the mad Titan. And the problem there is, well, if going by the population curve, it ain't taking that long for any population to double. So I guess Thanos would have snap his finger over and over and over again lol. When weld absolute power, his imagination is so limited to not able to find simple solution to his problem. How about endless resources. Endless renewable energy.

I think people take comfort if Eren was crazy and insane, because then you can blame on PTSD or trauma or whatever. But rational cold calculation, it makes one feel unease. Because we see it before in human's history. Holocaust, genocide, nuclear bomb. I think I actually addressed all of your points in an early post up this thread somewhere. This is nothing more than the thought experiment of Nuclear first strike. I said up thread somewhere that Marco's last word of "talk it out" which haunt Reiner is really powerful. https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...hapter-discussion.3018924/page-5#post-5481817

In Ravages of Time, these two ideas clashes. Sima Yi want a bloodied style rival that of the Red Wedding to end the suffering of war quickly. End the war at any cost. Whereas Zhuge Liang would rather avoid that to preserve morality and values. Even series like Kingdom, where the PROTAGONIST want extermination, and genocide in the name of unification and peace. Of course, history told us, that empire last a meager 15 years. Peace achieved by that sort of meant, may not always work out. And that is the ending of AoT, nothing is certain.

Btw, as a former military member and actually have mental health diagnosis. I don't know how you can think Eren is anything but psychotic. A sane person wouldn't make those choices. lol, the last few weeks, I am start to hear voices in my head especially at night. Thinking about how real it is physiologically, despite the logical part of my brain know that it isn't. Ain't it any different than hearing the voices of God, or seeing imagery that you think must happen. That is pretty crazy. The author only incorporate that element in after he saw the Game of throne episode the Door (or actually the one with the Tower of Joy), where one of the character was able to influenced the past. As far as I know, maybe he had some ideas before that.

*At least you aren't one of those people who think Eren is in the right. Holy cow, I stumble upon a couple of them. And I hope dear God. That they never in the position of power. To be honest, the scope of the story shouldn't have been this big. Once it got to be this big, I don't think anyone could write a satisfy ending.

*IN summary, my disagreement is over whether he is psychotic or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ever since the Buddha showed up in Record of Ragnarok, I remember the phrase (to me associate with Buddhism) if you don't go to hell, who would? To me, it meant to do the hard thing, and sometimes the morally hard thing. For a Buddhist that came to the famous trolley problem. Do you do nothing, and let 5 people die. Or do you do something and save 5 people, but in the course of that murder an innocent bystander that would not have die if you didn't do anything. The boring Buddhist answer would be throw himself on the track and cause the trolley go off rail saving all 6. But if that isn't an option, "the going to hell part" is being the person to make that morally complicated choice to save another person from the guilt and sin of making that choice. Kill 1 to save 5. And suffered the consequence for that action. But that isn't a A or B situation like Wanda had to face in the last episode of Wandavision. Though with that one, I actually go with harming the majority. I don't think Eren embodied that phrase at all. He killed the majority of the population, leaving the world with potential chaos. Have you see a country after bomb campaign or this case Eren flatten everything. No infrastructure, no law, no order, shortage of resource, extremely high tension.

I am okay with the ambivalent ending that nothing really is solved. Which is preferable between Code Geass and Watchmen. The former said that tactic would work, the latter said that tactic may not work. But in all these cases, it is killing a few to save or bring peace to the majority. In Eren's case, the decision didn't need to happen like that in term of agency or how it happened. It crossed into the dilemma of Wandavision, where I think you are more obligate to the children that you bring into the world and or people that you owed something to over random strangers. In essence, all lives are not equal objectively and subjectively.

But what Eren did make no sense to me. How can he be so sure that it will happen the way he see it, especially those future isn't just necessary just depend on his action. And in the process of doing what he did, he almost killed and could have killed everyone he held dear to. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't. In fact quite a few die to get them to where they were in order to face him.

To be honest, if you applied outside logic. All they have to do is destroyed all those serums, so no one can transformed into titans. And since there is no other physiological trait that separate them with the normal population. Because if there were, then the whole squad couldn't have infiltrate the mainland. And beside, there are countries that totally cool with Eldians anyway. Then just mix in there, and no one can tell. And who know, after many generation of mix breeding, the Eldian gene may just dilute enough to irrelevant. Use the founder titan power to brainwashed the mainland Eldians and erase their hatred. Then there are the 9 titans. Have someone eat up every other titans when they close to dying and have all 9 in one person. And pass it down to an elected or well regarded person of the community. Then keep passing it down to people in their 50 or 60. So that at least they live a full life. Problem solved. Marley wouldn't even be a threat to world peace, because their number one weapon, the titans, are not in their possession this way.

Peace is not permanent, nor is a total just world can be achieve. But there is always meaning to thrive for that regardless.

To be honest, if happened in the real world, anyone with the attack titan, probably just hanged themselves.
well , back then when Naruto was at peak of it popularity , I was really disappointed about member of this forums and in general , humans ... they simply were justifying genocide and mass murder ( Itachi ) because they like his character ...

so , this forums and others forums were great lesson for me , people can easily justify any evil act base on their own feeling and liking ...
 

strikefreedom

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So here is the final and therefore it is a neutral END which leans on the side BAD END for me anyway.

Lots of WTF, unsaid and bullshit for the latter.

So Armin and Eren already had their last conversation before the start of the battle via the bird, which is why he didn't want to talk to them further.

So Ymir in love with Fritz, hello toxic love already and she us a stockom syndrome and she took 2000 years to understand that olalala, and what is the relationship between that and creates titans that devours the Eldians also aka the people that you are supposed to protect aka the people of your king?

The joke was mikasa that Ymir had been waiting for for 2000 years XD. There is no connection between friz and eren toxic love level, fried is served ymir up and down and askew, while eren kid / teen did not calculate mikasa, it's not the same thing.

This is why Big smile did not eat berthold, and therefore eren killed her mother because it was '' necessary '' '' ...... BULLSHIT if you can handle the titans at this point you could have avoided pile of death.

So we can tell ourselves that Eren also killed her aunt by manipulating her father to get out of the camp, manipulating Kruger into becoming the owl and saving grisha etc etc, so free will who cares.

Me when I said my solution that Eren made his genocide and then by returning to the island bridles the Eldians to take away from them any notion of hatred / domination / conquest etc and that I was told that '' 'it sucks, that' is in agreement with the freedom of eren "" "bha I'm kidding there.

Are you serious Eren? To say that mikasa must not have found someone other than you not before 10 good year, in a situation like that you are supposed to say that yes she forgets you or thinks of you from time to time and she finds someone one of much better.

At worst you had to make her a kid at least she would have had something of you in memory.

He wanted to do a lelouch but cracked before, it's not for the comparison in itself, but at least lelouch he went to the end without complaining, even if for him too there was another solution.

Eren will have destroyed the world anyway why? It is nothing just like that, suddenly eren is a kid having a whim or how is it going?

So the worms and the colossals dead off the field? Who cares? The destruction of the path and the tree too? I was expecting something more epic than that, and that we are a box on historia that feels something via royal blood.

I would have liked a box for each one, eren quickly discussing with the others too.

Nice to see the battalion and Sasha one last shinzo sasageyo T-T.

Too bad not to have put Ymir (of the battalion) who also comes to say goodbye to historia.

What is this falco XD XD jump.

Mikasa runs away to buried eren, where it all started.

Serious the Mhars? Well this scene would have been the same with the sieg plan, asked for immediate proof that they are sterile.

And now it is Armin who saved the world.

And so historia has a cool daughter ...... AND SO IT'S NOT EREN THE FATHER? the author who makes a finger at the fan of the XD couple and therefore this teasing on the baby was not useful and the discussion of eren and historia on the plan + his desire to make a baby was not useful either.

By the way, we just thought that it was Eren who manipulated her to make her want to have a baby to put her in safety.

So there are a lot of survivors in the world and they're traumatized, normal.

So the islands became a martial country for fear of reprisals from the rest of the world one day, so the basic plan is done: a mini GT to scare the world and give Eldia time to arm itself.

So it became Améstris of FMA, the islands, we got what it gives to this kind of country, I who would have thought that it would be Armin and historia who would lead the country and become as ORB in gundam seed, a country who has an armed force but who attacks no one, defends himself and does not submit to anyone, bha no.

Uzul stayed on the island and yelena, what is she doing?

Yes I admit the pro-yeager are going to slaughter you armin and co, they have no reason to leave you alive.

Livai in a wheelchair with falco and co, where are they? a country spared no doubt.

So without the power of the titans, the 13-year limit is lifted? But where this limit came out in the end, we do not know, and Ymir his point of view the same, same level as kaguya in naruto at this level.

And so we ended up on Mikasa alone and sad at eren's grave, I almost expected what sort of a knife to kill himself for once.

Eren bird who comes to give him the scarf, to say that he is still there.

So the finality, the lesson of life, the moral in all that, what is it? Love is complicated? freedom in safety in a golden cage or freedom outside the cage but in the face of danger? I wouldn't say.

In short glad that they survived but too many unsaid bullshit etc to be well appreciated.

In the end that we like or don't like in an objective way this a little sloppy / rushed end, and enters the same wave as the last arc / manga end of these last 5 -10 years, the end end may please but it 's is what happens before that is wrong.
 

Felruci

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Can't say I'm surprised. I wanted to write a wall of text of my dissatisfaction with this final chapter but it's not even worth it anymore. It was great chatting with you all. Hopefully there will be another good manga we can get together and discuss it up. Live long and prosper peeps
 

mattiaildivino

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So, it finally happened: this masterpiece ended, I'd been following it for over 7 years :( and I truly believe it was the best one amongst the ones still ongoing. :hip
However, the last 3 volumes (more or less) didn't live up to my previous expectations, and I felt it unoriginal from time to time...
Something I didn't like at all was the fact there has been no final confrontation between Zeke and all his previous allies (warriors and Magath in primis), which was really a waste because there could have been a lot of available developments for that kind of stuff :zomg
Overall, this manga was gorgeous! I'm glad it ended before stretching it too much, but I still hope there will be other spin-off incoming :tem
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Before we join any kind of discussion in regards of the final chapter, I'd like to thank y'all for being amazing and the time we spent together after evert release talking about SnK in general on this forum/these threads. Despite our different POVs and opinions in general, it was very enjoyable. ;)
couldn't agree more, thank you everyone! :verily
 

AriesNoShion

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Yop everybody! Thanks for our exchange about this incredible story!
I give myself some time to digest the end (wholecake island Ark from one piece taught me that), but honestly I'm fairly fine with this ending. We all build some expectations and want to be fully satisfied about everything, I get it. It's frustrating, more for some of us, but I think we all need to take our time and enjoy the good things while we process things that we wished were different.

I like the poetic feel the end delivered. Were all the questions answered, not quite for me, but I think some secondaries things are up to us to think about.
Overall, I liked Eren's character so much. And the fact I did scares me a little when I realize what he did, but sadly I totally get his point of view and find the way Isayama delivered the hopelessness of reality very convincing.

I'll sum up my point of view like this:

+:
- Eren's point of view: Even if it's not a surprise for some of us, I liked it. Everything can not take us by surprise, it's consistent and it makes me love Eren even more. I don' know what Lelouch plan is, but if it is as Sasuke "I want to be the necessary evil because everybody will unite against me", that's not exactly the same. Eren did more. He executed 80% of the world to ensure his friends will survive at any cost. Not only he made his friends the hero the world needed, he ensured their safety as well. Sadly I get why Paradise continued to see him as their hero. He gave everything for them and his plan is maybe the only effective one.
- Mikasa's role. I didn't expect that. It was a nice touch that she was in fact the person Ymir needed to see what she should have done. It may feel dumb or obvious for some people but we all did some irrational things in her position. Plus I think it fits her childish appearance and the hard live she had.

neutral:
- the end of titans and everybody transformed back. Honestly I don' care. The good part is that Eren knew his friends would be safe, the bad one is that it's hard to believe there was no other way to deal with the situation if such a thing was possible.
- the bird thing at the end. Honestly, I don't care if Eren is now a bird or if it's just the image of freedom or anything else. It was cute, but I don't need to think to much about that.

-:
The worm thingy.
I'm ok with the Titan backstory, the all "parasite living being creating a world out of time and space with the only purpose to survive no matter what". But can we at least see the thing losing/dying? The last time we saw it, it was detached from Eren's body, was looking like if he couldn't reach him he would die and blew some steam to turn the other Edians, commanding them to help Eren. So what? If the Coordinate dies without him connected it's the end for him? I don't know, maybe I missed something but this part felt rushed.


I just watched this video. It's 3 hour long but it's really good imo.

 

UchihaHunter

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really thought this was the best shounen (kinda stretching the limits of shounen) that i had read, up until when falco suddenly became a titan with wings...pretty much nothing but downhill from there. in the end, it's INCREDIBLY difficult to end any long-running work...idk if i've ever really been completely satisfied with any manga ending, with the exception of maybe shaman king. i respect the work that it takes to continue a series like this, and the fact that he had an actual ending in mind, wasn't going to stretch it out for more sales, etc., how many things have we read that just went on too long? you can argue that maybe a chapter here or there could've been omitted toward the end of this, but in the end, he knew his ending and he got there without extending it with some bs.

does make me sad that the ending was disappointing, but i'll always have ymir randomly transforming, every levi fight, annie vs. eren, eren vs. reiner parts 1 through 100, eren showing up in marley, etc. etc., plenty of incredible moments, and twist after twist. just an excellent run up til the end. i'm pretty sure i've never been more excited for another series' next chapter the way i used to be for attack on titan's. so for that, i thank isayama
 
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