The Manosphere: Taking the Red Pill

[Volume1manga]

I find

To answer the OP, they're hilarious. Which is unfortunate because it isn't actually satire...

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

Equality is victimizing the status quo, which was never an equal playing field in the first place. It's the same reason people cry about "white genocide"

Actually, equality is not always a good thing. Imagine if ceos of businesses could not tell lower ranked employees what to do, because they have to be equal. How would they get anything accomplished. Or, if parents were all of a sudden banned from parenting their children for the sake of Equality. Equality is not always a good thing. But everyone should have equal rights. The right to work where they want too, marry who they want too as adults, etc etc. It's pretty silly to say everyone needs to be equal. That's violating people's rights. Some women are born more attractive than others. Does that mean damage her face to make her uglier for the sake of Equality? Of course not. Equality is a myth. Equal rights is what people need. Not Equality. Equality would even be infringing on other people's rights. Equality is a communist idea and i dont think any sane person would want to live like that. Capitalism with equal rights is the way to go. No system can be perfect but no society has ever done better than a capitalist society. That is true freedom. Not stifling people from succeeding for equality.

 

[ninjabot]

That's needlessly pedantic. No one means complete equality when they say equality. That's like complaining to a woman who tells their child they're "special", and then reciting to her an entire manifesto about how their child is similar to every other child on the planet because they eat, sleep, breathe, wear clothes, and will die just like every other person on the planet. Anyone who's been alive long enough to reach adulthood understands what's colloquially referred to as equality.

 

[Volume1manga]

That's needlessly pedantic. No one means complete equality when they say equality. That's like complaining to a woman who tells their child they're "special", and then reciting to her an entire manifesto about how their child is similar to every other child on the planet because they eat, sleep, breathe, wear clothes, and will die just like every other person on the planet. Anyone who's been alive long enough to reach adulthood understands what's colloquially referred to as equality.

No. That's exactly what the leftist feminist movement claims they want. They already have equal rights. What right does a man have here in the u.s. that women don't have. Your playing g word games. What Equality then are you and your people striving for. Since you already have equal rights. I hope it isn't equal pay for women cuz the wage gap was a myth all along. They get paid the same for the same amount of work, its just women naturally get paid less when they take off work because of pregnancies. So now that thus is out of the way, I'll wait.

 

[M3J]

Equality is victimizing the status quo, which was never an equal playing field in the first place. It's the same reason people cry about "white genocide"

Well, I didn't think to think that the line meant men were victims of women gaining equality. I thought it meant men having equality.

"To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Based Ruth Bader Ginsberg quote.

Basically meaning when you're used to getting your way, if someone else gets their way, but you don't, you feel like it's an attack on you.

We men are used to running the world according to our own vices and desires. Patriarchy, and all that. So when our grip on society (traditional puritanical gender roles imposed on women for example) is weakened so that women can enjoy some of the freedoms we have, some of us (the shittiest of us), get our feelings hurt and feel like we're being bullied just for being men. The more equal we become, the more men have to lose power.

I misunderstood the line, but otherwise I agree with you and xi0. What's crazy is that we will switch from saying men should be providers to complaining about how hard men have it and how so much is expected from them, while moments later arguing that wives shouldn't work.

Not just freedom, but safety as well. It's scary how so many men fight back against women wanting to be safe.

No. That's exactly what the leftist feminist movement claims they want. They already have equal rights. What right does a man have here in the u.s. that women don't have. Your playing g word games. What Equality then are you and your people striving for. Since you already have equal rights. I hope it isn't equal pay for women cuz the wage gap was a myth all along. They get paid the same for the same amount of work, its just women naturally get paid less when they take off work because of pregnancies. So now that thus is out of the way, I'll wait.

lol

 

[xi0]

Actually, equality is not always a good thing. Imagine if ceos of businesses could not tell lower ranked employees what to do, because they have to be equal. How would they get anything accomplished. Or, if parents were all of a sudden banned from parenting their children for the sake of Equality. Equality is not always a good thing. But everyone should have equal rights. The right to work where they want too, marry who they want too as adults, etc etc. It's pretty silly to say everyone needs to be equal. That's violating people's rights. Some women are born more attractive than others. Does that mean damage her face to make her uglier for the sake of Equality? Of course not. Equality is a myth. Equal rights is what people need. Not Equality. Equality would even be infringing on other people's rights. Equality is a communist idea and i dont think any sane person would want to live like that. Capitalism with equal rights is the way to go. No system can be perfect but no society has ever done better than a capitalist society. That is true freedom. Not stifling people from succeeding for equality.

What you're talking about is removing hierarchical structures entirely, not equality

"Equality is a myth" = equality is pointless even if treated as aspirational. So then anything deemed too hard is also pointless to strive for too? Doubt you'd say so.

Have no real clue what communism or capitalism has to do with treating women as equals, but ok...

 

[Volume1manga]

What you're talking about is removing hierarchical structures entirely, not equality

"Equality is a myth" = equality is pointless even if treated as aspirational. So then anything deemed too hard is also pointless to strive for too? Doubt you'd say so.

Have no real clue what communism or capitalism has to do with treating women as equals, but ok...

What do u mean "treating women as equals"? That's a vague thing to say. And there is also a difference between treating (which is also the same as pretending) women are equals and making them equal to men. If women were equal to men then no one should bat an eye if a man tried to fight a woman the same way they wouldn't bat an eye if a man tried to fight a man. Whether or not it's a real fight or a caged mma match. But I digress. According to your logic men and women are not equals so we need to treat them as equals. Because if they were already equal we wouldn't have to treat them as such. For example, like based on the fight scenario I just gave you, women could defend their selves against men because men and women have equal strength. Are there any people from Asia or other countries on here? Do yall see the madness going on here in america?

 

[xi0]

What do u mean "treating women as equals"? That's a vague thing to say. And there is also a difference between treating (which is also the same as pretending) women are equals and making them equal to men. If women were equal to men then no one should bat an eye if a man tried to fight a woman the same way they wouldn't bat an eye if a man tried to fight a man. Whether or not it's a real fight or a caged mma match. But I digress. According to your logic men and women are not equals so we need to treat them as equals. Because if they were already equal we wouldn't have to treat them as such. For example, like based on the fight scenario I just gave you, women could defend their selves against men because men and women have equal strength. Are there any people from Asia or other countries on here? Do yall see the madness going on here in america?

It's also a vague thing to say that people "already have equal rights" in response to the topic of gender equality but you didn't see me tripping over my own circular reasoning and acting like it's illuminating.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

But I digress. According to your logic men and women are not equals so we need to treat them as equals. Because if they were already equal we wouldn't have to treat them as such.

That's not my logic though. I'm curious how we got to this exactly?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022 ---

The powers that be which are using psychological warfare to destroy the traditional family unit in America, emasculated men, and make it seem like a man's nature is a bad thing.

What is a man's nature?

Do you believe all human characteristics are inherently good and beneficial to society?

 

[shionoro]

No. That's exactly what the leftist feminist movement claims they want. They already have equal rights. What right does a man have here in the u.s. that women don't have. Your playing g word games. What Equality then are you and your people striving for. Since you already have equal rights. I hope it isn't equal pay for women cuz the wage gap was a myth all along. They get paid the same for the same amount of work, its just women naturally get paid less when they take off work because of pregnancies. So now that thus is out of the way, I'll wait.

I can see one fallacy right there. Raising a child is something society needs. It is a job, in a way, just that you are not properly paid for it. Women are often the people who have to do it because man are less eager to stay home and sacrifice their career, so women suffer from the consequences more. That is inequality that leads to social problems, just because some valuable work is not paid while other work is.

That is why we should absolutely shoot for communist utopia and overcome late stage capitalism before it is too late.

 

[Volume1manga]

I can see one fallacy right there. Raising a child is something society needs. It is a job, in a way, just that you are not properly paid for it. Women are often the people who have to do it because man are less eager to stay home and sacrifice their career, so women suffer from the consequences more. That is inequality that leads to social problems, just because some valuable work is not paid while other work is.

That is why we should absolutely shoot for communist utopia and overcome late stage capitalism before it is too late.

Those are what we call gender roles. Gender roles are not bad unless they are forced on someone. There is no law forcing women to be the main ones raising children. So that is not oppression that is a choice which is made between the man and woman. I don't see how communism would do anything to change this anyway. I think there are a lot of problems with the statements you made in your paragraph.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

It's also a vague thing to say that people "already have equal rights" in response to the topic of gender equality but you didn't see me tripping over my own circular reasoning and acting like it's illuminating.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

That's not my logic though. I'm curious how we got to this exactly?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022 ---

What is a man's nature?

Do you believe all human characteristics are inherently good and beneficial to society?

A man's nature for example. We can pee standing up. Lol. It depends on what u mean by human characteristics. I think that would be unique to each human.

 

[shionoro]

Those are what we call gender roles. Gender roles are not bad unless they are forced on someone. There is no law forcing women to be the main ones raising children. So that is not oppression that is a choice which is made between the man and woman. I don't see how communism would do anything to change this anyway. I think there are a lot of problems with the statements you made in your paragraph.

There is no law for it, but gender rules are part of our system and as such, to change that inequality 8and we should do that), we need to approach it systemically.
Because that IS an enforced inequality, even if it does not happen by law.

It does not even matter whether you think women are inherently different or whether it is by gender rules that they became like that. Fact is that our system works in a way to devalue how women are, even tho their childraising is an important part of our society.

Why should the parent raising the child make less money or have worse career options? It does not have to be like that. It just happens that this vital aspect of our society that is usuallyd one by women kills your career. And that is an oppressive inequality, because it creates ther situation that women are less economically independent than men are.

And that is one of the stupid aspects of capitalism: You think its fine if it is like that, just because companies do not want to take proper steps that would benefit everyone in our society (paid parental leave, for example).

 

[kkck]

People for the most part don't really have discussions on how much equality there should be or in what context they mean to apply it. Gonna take a stab at it:

Baseline for economic equality: 30% of wealth for low class, 50% of wealth for middle class and 20% for high class regardless of sex, gender, religion, race.

Baseline for gender/sex equality: equality against the law.

I don't mean to say those are the ideal numbers, more like on whether others think that's appropriate and if not what that should actually be like.

 

[ninjabot]

No. That's exactly what the leftist feminist movement claims they want. They already have equal rights. What right does a man have here in the u.s. that women don't have. Your playing g word games. What Equality then are you and your people striving for. Since you already have equal rights. I hope it isn't equal pay for women cuz the wage gap was a myth all along. They get paid the same for the same amount of work, its just women naturally get paid less when they take off work because of pregnancies. So now that thus is out of the way, I'll wait.

Equality doesn't refer to simply legal rights. You're trying to limit the conversation to a very slim, very specific topic to try to prevent me from bombarding you with an actual list of all the fucked up shit women deal with that men don't. Not gonna work.

1: Do Muslim men have to wear burqas and hijabs? Or is that only for women?

2: Do American men in Texas or Alabama get arrested as well when the women they knocked up gets an abortion? Since it took both of them to make the child?

3: Does the Catholic church allow women to be priests or bishops?

4: Can Saudi women drive cars?

5: https://fairygodboss.com/articles/10-jobs-women-still-aren-t-allowed-to-have-across-the-world Here's a whole list of jobs women aren't allowed to have around the world.

6: Are promiscuous women praised for their sexual conquests the way promiscuous men are?

7: Are men hypersexualized in media to the same extent as women?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

Those are what we call gender roles. Gender roles are not bad unless they are forced on someone. There is no law forcing women to be the main ones raising children. So that is not oppression that is a choice which is made between the man and woman. I don't see how communism would do anything to change this anyway. I think there are a lot of problems with the statements you made in your paragraph.

See? You keep using very particular, very legal-ese oriented arguments to try to distract from our points of contention. Oppression isn't limited to legally accomplished tyranny.

 

[xi0]

A man's nature for example. We can pee standing up. Lol. It depends on what u mean by human characteristics. I think that would be unique to each human.

Women can pee standing up as well, they just choose not to because we now have porcelain thrones for convenience and hygienic reasons.

It's not though, there are very clear evolutionary reasons for some/most human behavior. This is the kind of ideological underpinning that PUA like Tate prefer to use (and completely fail with). That it is in a man's nature to seek to "own" their partner, or to have as many as they can to proliferate their genes. But the question is, do those things make society the best it can be for the most amount of people? The answer is clearly no, otherwise women wouldn't have the autonomy they have under the law and bigamy would be legal. So then why are we required to see all of "human nature" to be some infallible standard? We shouldn't. Some things were left behind for very obvious reasons.

 

[shionoro]

It also seems very clear that, if we go by evolution, there are good reasons for many men to not be violent alpha males that seek to dominate everyone. Such a society would not work.

Humans are social animals, as such they benefit from low aggression levels outside of war times. If you go by evolution, then clearly, humans are more successful than ever the way they are.

 

[M3J]

Those are what we call gender roles. Gender roles are not bad unless they are forced on someone. There is no law forcing women to be the main ones raising children. So that is not oppression that is a choice which is made between the man and woman. I don't see how communism would do anything to change this anyway. I think there are a lot of problems with the statements you made in your paragraph.

Gender roles are bad because it causes women to miss out on opportunities that they could have had. They're less likely to get hired, less likely to get good wages, and less likely to get promoted because higher-ups think young women will get pregnant and possibly be a liability. While there's no law, society often expects women to be the ones raising kids, and that can be seen in the way dads get praised for the same things moms do, or how moms get shamed for doing the same things dads do that the dads get praised for.

It's not really a choice, especially when women were raised to think dads don't have to help them.

 

[zetsu banned]

Bro with a day old account really coming in here ranting with Jordan Peterson talking points. Bold move, Cotton.

Tell me about the lobsters now

 

[Franckie]

Gender roles are bad because it causes women to miss out on opportunities that they could have had. They're less likely to get hired, less likely to get good wages, and less likely to get promoted because higher-ups think young women will get pregnant and possibly be a liability. While there's no law, society often expects women to be the ones raising kids, and that can be seen in the way dads get praised for the same things moms do, or how moms get shamed for doing the same things dads do that the dads get praised for.

It's not really a choice, especially when women were raised to think dads don't have to help them.

Culture plays a big part in gender roles, but there appears to be some biological bias for them. The tend-and-befriend theoretical model was originally developed by esteemed psychologist Shelley E. Taylor and her research team at the University of California, Los Angeles and first described in a Psychological Review article published in the year 2000. Her findings suggest that women tend and befriend others in reactions to situations (e.g., stressors), which may have played a contributing role in stereotyping women as caregivers and such.

 

[M3J]

Is it possible that women were raised to be like that as well, while men weren't?

 

[shionoro]

I do not think gender roles are a problem per se, as long as people are free to not conform to them.
Most people enjoy gender roles, at least to some degree. It only starts becoming harmful when rights are taken away, when discrimination happens and so on.

If, for example, most women enjoy studying other subjects than men or taking a caregiver role in the family, that is not an inherent problem. It becomes a problem when the way women live is less valued and the women who want to live in another way are pressured to conform to it.

If most women stayed at home as mothers but motherhood was easily combined with a career and being a mother would have no negative consequencse on participation in society, then i don't see the issue. The issue is that we do not live in that world and burdens are not equally shared on the sexes.

 

[Volume1manga]

Exactly.