Discussion Your Own Hatsu!

[uberfayt]

Still think you need to (re)read 389 with the official translation (unless you already have). They can control post-mortem Nen so well because it's limited to the Have-Nots and the relationship their ancestors had with the royals (and, y'know, because they're literally drinking something connected to the target).

Post mortem nen was supposed to be a somewhat rare and spontaneous occurance. But in this arc, that randomness is being thrown out of the window. I simply don't like that.

The effectiveness/time knowledge is a valid comment, but Fukataki was the only one who was aware of that, so it's not like every Have-Not can ascertain it.

I don't think it is. It didn't feel valid to me. I believe it would have been much better if Futataki had an ability like the one I described above, as it uses the consistent side of the nen system. At least like that, Futataki's predictions would have made sense.

Would love to hear your opinion on this power I posted above, and also, do you have a Hatsu in mind that you wanna share?

 

[Aeneas]

Post mortem nen was supposed to be a somewhat rare and spontaneous occurance. But in this arc, that randomness is being thrown out of the window. I simply don't like that.

Where was that ever mentioned (in terms of rarity)? In the vow/contract system, of course death would be the most effective trigger. Now thinking Togashi is overusing it (e.g., Hisoka, Camilla, the Have-Nots)? Fair criticism, but that's still not that many out of how many dozens of characters.

I don't think it is. It didn't feel valid to me. I believe it would have been much better if Futataki had an ability like the one I described above, as it uses the consistent side of the nen system. At least like that, Futataki's predictions would have made sense.

Misunderstood me a little. :P

I was saying your comment/criticism about them being so aware of the time thing (i.e., how long the curse would take from this location, that location, etc.) was valid. But since only Fukataki seems to have this knowledge, I personally don't see the issue.

And what isn't consistent with the Nen system? There seem to be plenty enough restrictions in place (pretty much the same or even more than the ability you devised).

Will post the 389 Viz in the other thread.

 

[uberfayt]

Where was that ever mentioned (in terms of rarity)?

Yeah it was not mentioned anywhere. It could be implied in Phinx's explanantion, but not necessarily.

And what isn't consistent with the Nen system?

This post mortem nen stuff ^^ The rest is a well-thought up system with explicit rules and restrictions, making it one of the most credible and fluid power systems. Post mortem nen is sadly left as this ambiguous power-up, and can apparently be harnessed by living peope now (Hisoka, Camilla and that Futataki)...

 

[Aeneas]

This post mortem nen stuff ^^ The rest is a well-thought up system with explicit rules and restrictions, making it one of the most credible and fluid power systems. Post mortem nen is sadly left as this ambiguous power-up, and can apparently be harnessed by living peope now (Hisoka, Camilla and that Futataki)...

But they can't harness it until they're dead... : P

Hisoka died of suffocation, Camilla was killed Mozambique style, and the Have-Nots have to kill themselves with a dagger (i.e., all post-mortem). Don't see anything out of the ordinary there.

You can see the same thing with what Nasubi is doing with the giant room and all the chambers, presumably planning to harness all the dead Princes' for something suspicious.

 

[uberfayt]

But they can't harness it until they're dead... : P

Hisoka died of suffocation, Camilla was killed Mozambique style, and the Have-Nots have to kill themselves with a dagger (i.e., all post-mortem). Don't see anything out of the ordinary there.

Hisoka and Camilla may have died, but they resurrected and are now harnessing it, which is my point. A "not out of the ordinary" case would be Pitou for instance.

As for the have-nots they apparently have full control on how their powers would affect their targets after their deaths, so though it's a bit of stretch but to me it's basically Camilla/Futataki harnessing their post mortem powers.

 

[Aeneas]

Hisoka and Camilla may have died, but they resurrected and are now harnessing it, which is point. A "not out of the ordinary" case would be Pitou for instance.

As for the have-nots they apparently have full control on how their powers would affect their targets after their deaths, so though it's a bit of stretch but to me it's basically Camilla/Futataki harnessing their post mortem powers.

So if it's not like Pitou, it's out of the ordinary? Based on one case? Seems a little flawed. But in terms of Nen, they're all out of the ordinary.

You mention Fukataki separately from the Have-Nots, but she's one as well. Just older and wiser (which I imagine is why she's so knowledgeable about the time/distance requirements).

 

[Copy Panda]

I can see why the resurrection clause could be spicy, but it's not surprising that the princes of Kakin are familiar with post mortem men. Imo the only grievous use of post-mortem nen was Hisorka resurrecting himself, but most other instances make sense

 

[uberfayt]

So if it's not like Pitou, it's out of the ordinary?

Didn't say that.

Based on one case?

Based on how Phinx explained it. Nen user dies ---> nen has a chance of staying and becoming stronger, and if it does ---> aura will carry on the will of its owner (or becoming somewhat of a curse).

Pitou incarnates this description well enough. The ancient king of Kakin who made the pot does too. The have-nots do too, though their powers are somewhat controllable/harnessable.

Hisoka and Camilla do not fit that description anymore, as they resurrected. That is out of the ordinary to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2020 ---

I can see why the resurrection clause could be spicy, but it's not surprising that the princes of Kakin are familiar with post mortem men. Imo the only grievous use of post-mortem nen was Hisorka resurrecting himself, but most other instances make sense

Camilla's was pretty hax too, tbh.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2020 ---

Hisoka and Camilla do not fit that description anymore, as they resurrected. That is out of the ordinary to me.

Maybe I should rather say that they cheated the description. Thus, out of the ordinary.

 

[Copy Panda]

I can see why you would say that but that's probably all her Jutsu amounts too, dying and probably in a specific way (or excluding specific ways). It's not like she has some spicy combat Jutsu on top of that

 

[Aeneas]

Hisoka and Camilla do not fit that description anymore, as they resurrected. That is out of the ordinary to me.

Though we were given explanations for both (Hisoka using Bungee Gum on his heart and lungs, and post-mortem Nen allowing the Gum to pump them to resuscitate him; Camilla requiring the life of the person who killed her, and the ability literally feeding them to her).

If they just randomly happened with the only explanation being p o s t m o r t e m N e N, I'd definitely agree there.

 

[uberfayt]

Though we were given explanations for both (Hisoka using Bungee Gum on his heart and lungs, and post-mortem Nen allowing the Gum to pump them to resuscitate him; Camilla requiring the life of the person who killed her, and the ability literally feeding them to her).

If they just randomly happened with the only explanation being p o s t m o r t e m N e N, I'd definitely agree there.

Dude you should have been here 4 years ago when the Hisoka thing happened. 50+ pages of discussion in like 3 or 4 days XD that was a riot...

Btw I feel like these messages belong more to the Aura thread...sorry Demon

 

[Copy Panda]

Alright back to the hatsu creation, I have a question: does possession nen count towards manipulation nen? That's to say, is it so that if you're possessed by something (a curse? a beast?) that you can't be hit anymore by say Shalnark's tech?

 

[uberfayt]

Alright back to the hatsu creation, I have a question: does possession nen count towards manipulation nen? That's to say, is it so that if you're possessed by something (a curse? a beast?) that you can't be hit anymore by say Shalnark's tech?

Spicy~

If by possession you mean parasitic nen, then I don't think that counts as manipulation nen. If however you are thinking of an ability which involves something (pure aura, nen beast) taking over the target, then I guess that would fit the "first come, first served" rule of manipulation nen....

 

[Copy Panda]

Well, something like a curse? Take for instance Kurapika's chain jail; could someone use manipulation on Chrollo in that state?

 

[uberfayt]

Well, something like a curse? Take for instance Kurapika's chain jail; could someone use manipulation on Chrollo in that state?

"Chain jail" does indeed directly manipulate the target (more precisely their aura nodes) in order to put them in a Zetsu state, so I would say that another manipulator would not be able to use his powers on a jailed target.


However, if you meant "Judgement chain", my guess is that another manipulator could still use his powers, simply because the chain does not put any kind of direct control over its target. It just sits there waiting to be triggered.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2020 ---

To try to answer your question, I guess that whenever this "possession nen" directly deprives its target from its free will (whether fully or partially), then that counts as manipulation and thus another manipulator would not be able to exerce his powers on that target.

 

[Aeneas]

Dude you should have been here 4 years ago when the Hisoka thing happened. 50+ pages of discussion in like 3 or 4 days XD that was a riot...

Btw I feel like these messages belong more to the Aura thread...sorry Demon

Yeah, in a sense I'm kinda glad I hadn't read the series at that point, heh.

I guess to get a little more on topic, I'd always thought a fear hatsu would be interesting. Like, if you know the target's greatest fear (or just something they fear), you're able to create and manipulate that, use it to haunt them, etc.