Obscure characters connection in One Piece

[c0nflikt]

Re: Is Gold D. Roger related to Luffy?

I think we will find all of the "Ds" have a mystical legendary haki like luffy's sovereign haki.

 

[Imitorar]

Re: Is Gold D. Roger related to Luffy?

I once thought that Roger was Luffy's father That was before I knew that A. Roger died 22 years ago and Luffy is 17 at the current point in the story and B. Luffy's grandfather was Garp and his father was Dragon.

But as of now, I think that there is no relationship. People suspect that all of the "D."'s are related, that they were the ruling family of the ancient kingdom, but due to the fact that there are "D"'s of other species, and the fact that monarchy has an authoritarian connotation that tends to get cast as bad in One Piece (though I live in America, and Americans have been known to have issues with monarchs) I currently believe that the "D."'s were all members of a ruling COUNCIL of the ancient kingdom. Therefore, there would be no familial relationship between all "D."'s, so Roger and Luffy would be descended from different council members, hence the different surnames.

I mean, it's impossible that he was Luffy's father or grandfather. He was dead too long ago to be even Ace's father, and it's been confirmed that he isn't. Besides, with Luffy's forbears covered back that many generations, odds are that he isn't a cousin of some sort. Garp would probably know if he was, and the World Government would probably be MUCH less tolerant of Garp if he were at all related to the Pirate King. People like to stamp out the families of their enemies completely. And also, I think it would be more meaningful if Roger and Luffy were related by ideology rather than by blood, but that's a personal preference, not based so much on the facts of the series, except for the fact that people comment on Luffy's personality being like Roger's not his looks, which could be reading too much into that, and Luffy's parentage being accounted for already. To my mind, the only way that Luffy and Roger could be related is if the "D."'s are all related, and as I said above, I don't believe that that's true.

 

[bittman]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Haha, I was just reading through Imitorar's post and I suddenly had a strange thought. "I wonder if Gol D. Roger actually has a family that will appear in One Piece?" And then, for some strange reason Robin's face popped to mind.

I could make a complete argument about it off completely circumstantial evidence, but I'll just leave it tinkering in my mind as one of those faint "If I was writing this and I wanted to mess with the readers, I would _______" quirks I get occasionally.

On topic: everything Imitorar said and I'm kind of in the crowd that believes the D is an inheritance of the lost kingdom. However, that alone doesn't make them related. I live in Australia and I'm pretty sure I'm not related to any of my friends unless I trace back to our days as monkeys (or Adam and Eve, whatever).

So no, though I believe they may have a history in the same place, I don't think they're at all related.

 

[Imitorar]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Haha, I was just reading through Imitorar's post and I suddenly had a strange thought. "I wonder if Gol D. Roger actually has a family that will appear in One Piece?" And then, for some strange reason Robin's face popped to mind.

I could make a complete argument about it off completely circumstantial evidence, but I'll just leave it tinkering in my mind as one of those faint "If I was writing this and I wanted to mess with the readers, I would _______" quirks I get occasionally.

On topic: everything Imitorar said and I'm kind of in the crowd that believes the D is an inheritance of the lost kingdom. However, that alone doesn't make them related. I live in Australia and I'm pretty sure I'm not related to any of my friends unless I trace back to our days as monkeys (or Adam and Eve, whatever).

So no, though I believe they may have a history in the same place, I don't think they're at all related.

Roger's voyage around the world started 26 years ago. Olvia left Ohara 26 years ago. Unless you say that Olvia made a previous voyage with Roger 29 years ago on which Robin was conceived, it's impossible. I doubt she was with Roger then, she'd probably have been researching and preparing for her voyage. And Roger was probably off sailing the Grand Line and adventuring, or at least sailing around gathering up a crew and supplies for his journey. He probably WASN'T going to academic islands and having sex with archaeologists.

Besides, Roger couldn't read Poneglyphs, and that's the only reason that people suspect a familial link between him and Robin, the fact that both were involved with Poneglyphs, only Roger couldn't really read them, and had no real connection to Ohara, and just never would have really had an opportunity to conceive Robin. Also, Olvia had a husband, who seems to have also been an archaeologist, but who died before the voyage. So odds are that HE was Robin's father. And odds are also that he WASN'T Roger, because if Olvia and Roger were married, she'd probably have gone with him, and Roger couldn't read Poneglyphs anyway, so why would he have been an archaeologist on Ohara with a wish to uncover the events of the Void Century? Despite the shared ability to understand (note: I did NOT say read) Poneglyphs, it isn't really logical to say that Robin and Roger are related.

 

[bittman]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Yeah nice point, I almost had a good argument response to you but one fact blew it out of the water:
[html=http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/393/14/]"We'll take care of your husband's unfulfilled wish"[/html]

I just deleted a fair bit of text, ah well. Guess I'll go back to my theory of Dragon being everyone's dad because, funnily enough, none of the Strawhat's have a dad and Dragon seems pimp enough...except Chopper of course...well, I HOPE "except Chopper of course". (yes this is a crazy theory, come on Imitorar, do your worst =P )

Moderator Notice:
I would LOVE to, just for fun, but I also wanna steer this back on-topic before we derail it further. To the Mega Convo, yes?~ Imitorar

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Besides, Roger couldn't read Poneglyphs, and that's the only reason that people suspect a familial link between him and Robin, the fact that both were involved with Poneglyphs, only Roger couldn't really read them, and had no real connection to Ohara, and just never would have really had an opportunity to conceive Robin.

I agree that Roger has no connection to Robin.
But I disagree that he couldn't read poneglyphs. Rayleigh says that they didn't decipher them, that's all. And the inscription on the bell on Skypiea clearly shows that Roger could read Poneglyphs good enough to write a nice sentence using them.
How did he do that if he didn't decipher them? Let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe Roger had some unknown ability. Whether it is some DF or Haki, who knows. I won't discard anything in a manga that has a man repelling physical condition and injuries from a person.

 

[Imitorar]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

I agree that Roger has no connection to Robin.
But I disagree that he couldn't read poneglyphs. Rayleigh says that they didn't decipher them, that's all. And the inscription on the bell on Skypiea clearly shows that Roger could read Poneglyphs good enough to write a nice sentence using them.
How did he do that if he didn't decipher them? Let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe Roger had some unknown ability. Whether it is some DF or Haki, who knows. I won't discard anything in a manga that has a man repelling physical condition and injuries from a person.

He... did. That's what Rayleigh said on the next page. But either way, he only could decipher Poneglyphs because he could "hear the voice of all things", whatever that means. I'm almost sure we'll know by the end of the series once the Rio Poneglyph is found and Roger's connectiona and involvement with the Poneglyphs is revealed. But even as things stand now, we know for sure that he couldn't read them. So in addition to any other reasons why Roger couldn't be related to Robin, there's the fact that the "Poneglyph connection proof" hinges on a connection that isn't actually there.

Though this thread is actually about Roger being related to Luffy, the Roger and Robin bit was just a detour on a theory bittman made and my response. In the future, we should all keep this thread focused on Roger and Luffy, and leave Roger and Robin the Mega Convo.

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

I suppose this translation is the correct one? Another one says that he couldn't decipher them.

But whether he could read them or hear them is semantics. He could obviously understand them and write decent sentences with them. If he could have done it on Skypiea then he could have done it anywhere else, which he probably did, if they discovered the real history.
So, why is it even debated whether he could read (understand) it or not?

I'll repeat that I never thought for even a second that Roger and Robin were related.


Now, here's my take on the connection between Luffy and Roger. I think Roger is his uncle, that is, Garp's brother. I don't think their resemblance is an accident.
It's not so weird to look more like your uncle than like your father. In fact, a lot of my relatives always commented my resemblance to one of my uncles.
It's not much of an argument, I know, but I just thought I'd throw it out.

Someone could say that it would have probably been mentioned by now. But there are a lot of things that weren't exactly mentioned right away, and there are some pretty basic things that we still don't know about. Like where's Luffy's mom? What does she do?
So, I don't think that it's so big of a stretch that Roger and Garp were brothers.

 

[Tsukisama]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Now, here's my take on the connection between Luffy and Roger. I think Roger is his uncle, that is, Garp's brother. I don't think their resemblance is an accident.
It's not so weird to look more like your uncle than like your father. In fact, a lot of my relatives always commented my resemblance to one of my uncles.
It's not much of an argument, I know, but I just thought I'd throw it out.

Someone could say that it would have probably been mentioned by now. But there are a lot of things that weren't exactly mentioned right away, and there are some pretty basic things that we still don't know about. Like where's Luffy's mom? What does she do?
So, I don't think that it's so big of a stretch that Roger and Garp were brothers.

I personally do not believe Luffy will likely turn out to be blood-related to Roger (for the reasons Imitorar already mentioned here—

Spoiler

I once thought that Roger was Luffy's father That was before I knew that A. Roger died 22 years ago and Luffy is 17 at the current point in the story and B. Luffy's grandfather was Garp and his father was Dragon.

But as of now, I think that there is no relationship. People suspect that all of the "D."'s are related, that they were the ruling family of the ancient kingdom, but due to the fact that there are "D"'s of other species, and the fact that monarchy has an authoritarian connotation that tends to get cast as bad in One Piece (though I live in America, and Americans have been known to have issues with monarchs) I currently believe that the "D."'s were all members of a ruling COUNCIL of the ancient kingdom. Therefore, there would be no familial relationship between all "D."'s, so Roger and Luffy would be descended from different council members, hence the different surnames.

I mean, it's impossible that he was Luffy's father or grandfather. He was dead too long ago to be even Ace's father, and it's been confirmed that he isn't. Besides, with Luffy's forbears covered back that many generations, odds are that he isn't a cousin of some sort. Garp would probably know if he was, and the World Government would probably be MUCH less tolerant of Garp if he were at all related to the Pirate King. People like to stamp out the families of their enemies completely. And also, I think it would be more meaningful if Roger and Luffy were related by ideology rather than by blood, but that's a personal preference, not based so much on the facts of the series, except for the fact that people comment on Luffy's personality being like Roger's not his looks, which could be reading too much into that, and Luffy's parentage being accounted for already. To my mind, the only way that Luffy and Roger could be related is if the "D."'s are all related, and as I said above, I don't believe that that's true.

— and simply because it seems rather cliché to me, which Oda does not seem to be to me), but if he were to be related to Roger, the most reasonable (i.e., believably possible) way for him to be related would be through Luffy's mother. She is the main missing piece in our knowledge of Luffy's family, and through her Oda has lots of possible avenues, including even making Roger a relative.

If Gol D. Roger just happened to be Garp's brother, then I think the Navy would have made a big deal about it, big enough that it would have had been at least hinted at by now. Since Garp seems to be fairly open about admitting his other criminal relatives (Luffy, Ace, Dragon), I don't think Garp would be keeping this a secret. Plus, if it were already public knowledge, I don't think Garp would be considered much of a hero of the military for just chasing his famous pirate brother.

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

If Gol D. Roger just happened to be Garp's brother, then I think the Navy would have made a big deal about it, big enough that it would have had been at least hinted at by now. Since Garp seems to be fairly open about admitting his other criminal relatives (Luffy, Ace, Dragon), I don't think Garp would be keeping this a secret. Plus, if it were already public knowledge, I don't think Garp would be considered much of a hero of the military for just chasing his famous pirate brother.

Oda has managed to keep quite a few things from us for a long time.

Garp is still considered hero even when his own son is the world's most wanted criminal and his both grandsons are notorious pirates.
And maybe it isn't a public knowledge at all. I mean, either they are not brothers, or their family relation isn't a public knowledge.

I know, both options have some sense in them. But I don't think the resemblance between Luffy and Roger is a pure coincidence

 

[Tsukisama]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Oda has managed to keep quite a few things from us for a long time.

Garp is still considered hero even when his own son is the world's most wanted criminal and his both grandsons are notorious pirates.
And maybe it isn't a public knowledge at all. I mean, either they are not brothers, or their family relation isn't a public knowledge.

I know, both options have some sense in them. But I don't think the resemblance between Luffy and Roger is a pure coincidence

I was saying that if Roger is related to Luffy, it is more likely that he is related through Luffy's mother than through Luffy's father. So, while you are arguing that there is a resemblance between Roger and Luffy that is not just coincidental, I do not understand why you are so adamant that Roger also be related to Garp. Is it because of the "D," or do you see some resemblance between Garp and Roger? (I'm not trying to be mean or critical, just curious.)

Also, concerning Garp's status as a hero, it came before Ace and Luffy's time, as he gained it by chasing Roger. (I doubt that Dragon was as infamous as he is now back during Roger's time, but I don't know that for sure; so he could have been, but the point is he didn't have these things while he was building his reputation and because of his great fame in his dealings with Roger, he hasn't been used as a scapegoat by the WG for his family's crimes.)

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Yeah, I forgot to say. I just think that chances are slim that Ace and Luffy's mother is also a D.
There's no special reason for that. I'm not dismissing the possibility either.

Still, having a daughter in law who is a daughter of the Pirate King would still be enough to diminish Garp's heroism, if it were a public knowledge.

Aside from that, if Ace and Luffy's mother is Roger's daughter, she could have ended up hating Garp. Hell, it could be the reason why Dragon and her were separated. Luffy never mentioned his mother. Almost like he never knew her.
Now, I'm just brainstorming here. Maybe she had to escape from Marines, and had no choice but to leave her children to Garp.
If she is indeed Dadan, like some people have alluded, than the mayor's words would make sense. She doesn't live there any more. That's why mayor wondered if Dadan knew about Luffy's "adventures".

Just keep in mind that it's only a speculation. I don't really buy it completely either.

 

[Tsukisama]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Yeah, I forgot to say. I just think that chances are slim that Ace and Luffy's mother is also a D.
There's no special reason for that. I'm not dismissing the possibility either.

I see. Thank you for explaining that.

Still, having a daughter in law who is a daughter of the Pirate King would still be enough to diminish Garp's heroism, if it were a public knowledge.

Well, that is assuming Dragon was married to Luffy's (and possibly Ace's) mother. For some reason, I have also imagined Dragon not being married to Luffy's mother, that he would have had a relationship with her some time in the past but nothing formal like marriage. Not being married seems like a more roguish thing to do.

Also, it is entirely possible that Garp did not know Luffy's mother's past. All he might have known about her was that she had some relationship with Dragon and produced a child (possibly children if she's Ace's mother too). If he did know her past but Dragon and she were not married, then Garp may have just neglected to mention anything about it, since she really does not have any connection to him in that case.

Aside from that, if Ace and Luffy's mother is Roger's daughter, she could have ended up hating Garp. Hell, it could be the reason why Dragon and her were separated. Luffy never mentioned his mother. Almost like he never knew her.
Now, I'm just brainstorming here. Maybe she had to escape from Marines, and had no choice but to leave her children to Garp.
If she is indeed Dadan, like some people have alluded, than the mayor's words would make sense. She doesn't live there any more. That's why mayor wondered if Dadan knew about Luffy's "adventures".

Just keep in mind that it's only a speculation. I don't really buy it completely either.

I would honestly prefer if there really were drama like that concerning Luffy's mother, Dragon, and Garp.

What is known about Dadan to me does not necessarily mean that Dadan (should she really be Luffy's mother) necessarily raised Luffy actually together with Garp. For example (going with the idea that Dadan is Luffy' mother for the sake of this example), Dadan could have been with Luffy for his birth and perhaps some early years and then left him with Garp for some reason. [I am not saying that you, Razh, were saying something contrary to what I have written in this paragraph, but I just felt like voicing an opinion on that.]

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

I would honestly prefer if there really were drama like that concerning Luffy's mother, Dragon, and Garp.

What is known about Dadan to me does not necessarily mean that Dadan (should she really be Luffy's mother) necessarily raised Luffy actually together with Garp. For example (going with the idea that Dadan is Luffy' mother for the sake of this example), Dadan could have been with Luffy for his birth and perhaps some early years and then left him with Garp for some reason. [I am not saying that you, Razh, were saying something contrary to what I have written in this paragraph, but I just felt like voicing an opinion on that.]

Yeah, my thoughts are the same on that. Going with the idea that Dadan is indeed the mother, then she had to at least live in Fuschia for some time for mayor to know her.

Damn, I can't wait to find out.

 

[kkck]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

This might be a little off but are we sure Dadan is a woman? SOmetimes japannese names confuse me in that particular aspect lol.

 

[shinsengumi]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

does anybody think that Dragon can be actually Gold D. Roger?i'm new to O.P and i read all 531 chaps in ten days.it was an overload of info so i might be missing a huge point but after i read it all,i feel like this might be true.
After finding out the ancient history maybe he decided to end the world government.somehow at the execution he tricked everyone as him being dead and left the name Gold D. Roger behind, then began a new life as a criminal.
what he told to rayleight that "i won't die partner".first thing coming to mind is he referred to his name and will that will live forever but maybe it was the tiny miny hint for us.maybe rayleight knows the truth but he can't tell anyone,that's why he says Roger is dead.it's also true in a sense,that name is dead,now is Dragon goes on.
what makes me feel like this;
Dragon is the criminal who fights the government.Why does he do that?just to shake the authority with a simple criminal's mind or he actually knows the awful truth behind the scene?i take the second one as basics and then i wonder how did he learn that?as far as we know the only people learned about the missing history are Gold Roger and his crew!!
another thing Dragon said "this world's stability must be questioned"
and the things Roger said during the execution.he called every person to search for his treasure.he basicly invited everyone to become a pirate--->which considerably shakes the world's stability---->starts the pirate era---->threatens the world's government

i know that this is a huge assumption without any real proof but after reading what i said,does anybody see it possible?or i would also appreciate if someone shakes my logic with the truths i'm missing.

and by the way,for the topic,i believe Gold D. Roger might me Dragon himself so it means he might be Luffy's father

 

[Razh]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

This might be a little off but are we sure Dadan is a woman?

Who said that we are sure? We were just theorizing going with the idea that Dadan is a woman, anf Luffy's mom at that.

Personally, I think she is. Because mayor of Fuchsia wondered if Dadan knew about Luffy's bounty. Who else beside a family member or someone close would give a shit?


And no, I don't think Roger is dragon, since he looks too young to be him. Roger would look more or less Garp or Rayleigh now. Gray hair and all.

Both Dragon's appearance now and on the picture from Vivi's flashback shows that he's much too young.

And it would suck.

So, what are your thoughts about the age difference? And please, no elixirs of youth...

 

[bittman]

Re: Is Gol D. Roger related to Luffy?

Well unless Roger forgot to age and changed personalities from a romanticist to a rebel over 22 years, I doubt it.

And by doubt it, I mean definitely not. You think Garp might know if his own son was Roger right? Given Garp doesn't know how to keep a secret to save his life, I don't think he's exactly walking around with that as a secret.

Also, if Roger was alive it might slightly ruin the pirate era.