Discussion Use(s) of Haki

[SharpKnives]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

When Kizaru's kicks he isn't just using his logia ability defensively, but augmenting the speed of his kick to the speed of light. Haki allowed Rayleigh both to hit Kizaru's physical body to counter his kick, but also allowed him to counter the fact his leg was traveling at the speed of light. If you can counter something on that scale with Haki I don't think Kuma's paw ability would be any different.

nope all Rayleigh did was redirect the kick, Kizaru still kicked at the speed of light but before he could react to Rayleigh he had already been hit. Kuma has to touch someones body to send them flying and having haki won't change that. Luffy can still stretch when being hit by someone with haki infact he's still rubber.

 

[Rody naruto]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

@SenninSage True that!its realy amazing that Luffy's good at it now.Wich makes me excited just to think about his next fight with Smoke.
-Luffy;oh!Smoke long time no see.
-Smoke:you better start running lil boy or ill kill you.
-Luffy:what?hell no!you know why?you know why????hein?'cause im strong B***h.And im gonna whip your ass.thats right!whip your ass.
haha.
But seriously,the fight Smoke vs. Hancock shows Smoke that he has weakeness.And knowing him he surely improve himself.So Luffy vs. Smoke should realy wicked

 

[Freid]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

nope all Rayleigh did was redirect the, Kizaru still kicked at the speed of light but before he could react to Rayleigh he had already been hit. Kuma has to touch someones body to send them flying and having haki won't change that. Luffy can still stretch when being hit by someone with haki infact he's still rubber.

Precisely. If WB earthquake punches someone that uses haki, it would still be an earthquake punch but maybe weaker due to the persons defensive haki. The punch does not automatically become a normal punch

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

No, the only thing Oda wanted to display there was that Rayleigh's haki enabled him to be able to touch Kizaru. That is why brook only said 'i sliced and sliced him, but my blows went straight through his body, yet you just stopped him. how'. I dont even get what you're saying. That Rayleigh's haki allowed him to move at the speed of light to follow kizaru's kick? If anything, he's COO played a part
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What you just pointed out is that haki can basically be used defensively. When the admirals used their defensive COA it was to protect the platform from the shaking marineford like you pointed out. Haki did not directly stop WB's earthquake. Haki does not nullify a Devil fruits offensive ability. If it did that, you would just get a basic martial arts fight between two haki users. All it does is render the advantage of immunity some devil fruits grant useless. So to my last statement I said. If Kuma tries to teleport someone, it would indeed work.

Of course that Defensive Armament Haki directly stopped WB quakes. Thats why they never did anything to the area that was being effected by the Admiral's Defensive Armament Haki. They completely stopped the effects of the DF produced quakes. And yes opponents with similar levels of Haki are going to end up battling via basic hand to hand combat due to them canceling out their DF abilities. Kuma using his telopration ability on someone is exactly the same as Luffy launching a rubber punch at someone. Both would be using their DF abilities to directly attack someone. And just like the Boa sisters stopped Luffy's rubber punches via a Defensive Aramament Haki, the same exact thing would happen in Kuma if he tried to teleport away someone who could use a strong Armament Haki. Kuma isn't going to go around teleporting anyone and everyone he wants to. lolz Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous and dumb that sounds?

 

[Freid]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Of course that Defensive Armament Haki directly stopped WB quakes. Thats why they never did anything to the area that was being effected by the Admiral's Defensive Armament Haki. They completely stopped the effects of the DF produced quakes. Kuma using his telopration ability on someone is exactly the same as Luffy launching a rubber punch at someone. Both would be using their DF abilities to directly attack someone. And just like the Boa sisters stopped Luffy's rubber punches via a Defensive Aramament Haki, the same exact thing would happen in Kuma if he tried to teleport away someone who could use a strong Armament Haki. Kuma isn't going to go around teleporting anyone and everyone he wants to. lolz Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous and dumb that sounds?

With that logic, Akainu's magma punches become normal punches or an ice punch becomes a normal punch in the face of haki. As far as I know, the manga has made it clear that the only person capable of rendering the offensive power of a devil fruit useless is BB. Haki does not effect the offensive ability of devil fruits, if so every devil fruit user's devil fruit ability would be useless against Sentomaru who is said to have the strongest defence due to his haki. All your point showed is that the admirals together have an extrememly powerful defence. Ofcourse the defensive haki strength of three of the strongest people in the manga combined would be able to stop the shaking. It did not stop WB's ability itself. Its exactly how ao kiji stopped the tsunami Wb caused. It would be equally as dumb in the new world if all we see if martial arts and all offensive devil fruits abilities are no more because they apparently render their attack useless.

Also when the sisters stopped luffy's attack, they did not stop his devil fruit ability. It is not the same thing at all as Kuma. Stopping Kuma's teleporting would be stopping his ability. Stopping Luffys punch is simply stopping his punch. He is still rubber

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Haki does not grant the power of the seastones. Simple as that

Edit: Out of interest. What does Kizaru's laser beam become against an haki user?. Does it just dissappear. Like does it just go 'poof'? The answer is it doesn't

 

[damane08]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Debating is good and all but i have a simple question to ask; If Luffy were to punch Kuma with a haki fist, what would happen if Kuma tried to repel that fist with his DF?

Looking at Luffy's fight with Marigold and Sandersonia would help with the question. Simple question isn't it?

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

With that logic, Akainu's magma punches become normal punches or an ice punch becomes a normal punch in the face of haki. As far as I know, the manga has made it clear that the only person capable of rendering the offensive power of a devil fruit useless is BB. Haki does not effect the offensive ability of devil fruits, if so every devil fruit user's devil fruit ability would be useless against Sentomaru who is said to have the strongest defence due to his haki. All your point showed is that the admirals together have an extrememly powerful defence. Ofcourse the defensive haki strength of three of the strongest people in the manga combined would be able to stop the shaking. It did not stop WB's ability itself. Its exactly how ao kiji stopped the tsunami Wb caused. It would be equally as dumb in the new world if all we see if martial arts and all offensive devil fruits abilities are no more because they apparently render their attack useless.

Also when the sisters stopped luffy's attack, they did not stop his devil fruit ability. It is not the same thing at all as Kuma. Stopping Kuma's teleporting would be stopping his ability. Stopping Luffys punch is simply stopping his punch. He is still rubber
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Haki does not grant the power of the seastones. Simple as that

Whats simple is the fact that you think that Kuma can teloport away anyone he wants to. Meaning that no matter who he fights be it Shanks, Sengoku, Dragon, Rayleigh or any of the Admirals that as long as he can make contact with them that he will basically win seeing as how he can teleport people anywhere. So sending all of the DF users onto the sea gives him an auto win and sending the none DF using into a volcano gives him an auto win on that end as well. See how completely dumb that argument sounds? Luffy training all of this time is completely useless according to your insane argument, seeing as how he clearly can't stop anyones offensive DF attack. Give me a break. Yes Haki isn't sea stone, but it clearly negates DF abilities of those with a lower level of Haki then the user. And if you want to debate that fact, then you must be reading a different manga.

 

[Rody naruto]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Precisely. If WB earthquake punches someone that uses haki, it would still be an earthquake punch but maybe weaker due to the persons defensive haki. The punch does not automatically become a normal punch

Man i just love these last pages boys thats some real manga fan argument.Just love it
But then again i desagree
See there is one thing that u need to understand Freid,its that haki those not cancel the Devil fruit user ability,but instead it cancels the effect of the Devil fruit on the haki user.Reminber Sentoumaru vs. Luffy?Luffy didnt stop stretching but his punches couldnt hit Setoumaru.The same tel. can be cancel.that why i beleive he ask Rayleigh to trust him so that he wouldnt use is haki to cancel the tel.(my oppinion).

 

[Poneglyph420]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

This is what Ray San said after he flicked Luffy in the head: http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/597/#17

From this I personally interpret is that Someone with a stong control of Armament "Colored" Haki, they can oppose DF users. and the power of their ability. So If the question was how would the SH fare?? Depends on the Haki of the SH post timeskip. Because IMO if someone had weak control of their Haki it would be likely Kuma would be transporting them and owning them.. But someone who likely has very strong CoA Haki would be able to stop themselves from being teleported... No matter what things like Kuma's air cannon and Ursus Shock abilities would still be effective weapons.. and his PX mods as well. Just try to Haki stop a Kuma "Beam"!!
(Luffy would be so impressed he stare in amazement.. HA! )

Edit (I really should have read more first.. oops.) I also think however that there are other ways a DF could still injure a CoA user.. Look at WB's face for an example.. or the Snake Sisters..

But I couldn't imagine someone like Dragon or Shanks or Rayleigh or even Luffy (at this point) getting tossed around by Kuma at any point.
To anyone but the very elite, he'd be (and is) a beast...
But IMO from here on out... Elite only need apply..

 

[Freid]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Whats simple is the fact that you think that Kuma can teloport away anyone he wants to. Meaning that no matter who he fights be it Shanks, Sengoku, Dragon, Rayleigh or any of the Admirals that as long as he can make contact with them that he will basically win seeing as how he can teleport people anywhere. So sending all of the DF users onto the sea gives him an auto win and sending the none DF using into a volcano gives him an auto win on that end as well. See how completely dumb that argument sounds? Luffy training all of this time is completely useless according to your insane argument, seeing as how he clearly can't stop anyones offensive DF attack. Give me a break. Yes Haki isn't sea stone, but it clearly negates DF abilities of those with a lower level of Haki then the user. And if you want to debate that fact, then you must be reading a different manga.

Its as simple as that. But you say it like Shanks, Sengoku etc are fodders. Did you not see what happened in the war. Did you not see Iva's death wink to Kuma? Everything you are saying is just proving that Kuma's ability is hax which i agree with but he still has many weakness like long range attacks. Like I said before, haki does not cancel devil fruit abilities, it serves as the only way to oppose some devil fruit users (logia) and takes away the advantage of immunity to some attacks some devil fruit users have (luffy's rubber). It allows everyone to be touched but it wouldn't make sense if it also messed with devil fruits offensive ability especially one such as Kumas which is a big part of his offensive ability. I have never seen haki negate the offensive ability of a DF user however weak they may be.

 

[Junaid_Sennin]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Jeez, this is supposed to be a spoiler discussion thread, not a haki discussion one.

Of course that Defensive Armament Haki directly stopped WB quakes. Thats why they never did anything to the area that was being effected by the Admiral's Defensive Armament Haki. They completely stopped the effects of the DF produced quakes. And yes opponents with similar levels of Haki are going to end up battling via basic hand to hand combat due to them canceling out their DF abilities. Kuma using his telopration ability on someone is exactly the same as Luffy launching a rubber punch at someone. Both would be using their DF abilities to directly attack someone. And just like the Boa sisters stopped Luffy's rubber punches via a Defensive Aramament Haki, the same exact thing would happen in Kuma if he tried to teleport away someone who could use a strong Armament Haki. Kuma isn't going to go around teleporting anyone and everyone he wants to. lolz Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous and dumb that sounds?

-The admirals did not stop WB's quake. Their CoA acted as a shield and protected them and the platform from the quake. Read ch597, CoA is described as armor, so it shields. Really simple, dunno why everyone is trying to turn haki into some all-powerful ability.

-Kuma will still be able to teleport people, but CoA can protect you from his Pad Ho attacks, since the armor will strengthen your defences.

-It's is absolutely nothing like the thing with the Boa sisters and Luffy. Even though Luffy's rubber, his attacks are simply physical attacks. His ability has no effect on anything external, it only affects his own body. So when he attacks people, it's just a normal punch or kick, so the CoA, being like an armor, can defend against it. Kuma, on the other hand, has a ability that can affect himself and others, but it does not alter his body. Only the yami-yami no mi can completely cancel df abilities. CoA can't

 

[BurnSchulz]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

If Haki defense really dosent prevent kuma from using his teleport on someone, then he could easily just port anyone away if he reaches and everything left you can do is dodge this teleport paw attack...

I believe haki cancels out every devil fruit ability. Like the rubber funktion of luffys gumo gumo no mi.

The only reason why the 3 Admirals couldnt cancel whitebeards quake attack was that the quake attack was started already.
You cannot prevent what has been startet yet.
And the other thing is, his Quake attack has a super huge area... so everything around the admirals was still effected.

 

[Freid]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Man i just love these last pages boys thats some real manga fan argument.Just love it
But then again i desagree
See there is one thing that u need to understand Freid,its that haki those not cancel the Devil fruit user ability,but instead it cancels the effect of the Devil fruit on the haki user.Reminber Sentoumaru vs. Luffy?Luffy didnt stop stretching but his punches couldnt hit Setoumaru.The same tel. can be cancel.that why i beleive he ask Rayleigh to trust him so that he wouldnt use is haki to cancel the tel.(my oppinion).

I thought I was the one saying haki does not cancel DF abilities. The same way luffy didnt stop stretching like you said is the same way kuma's ability in the face of haki would still be intact. Luffy rubber ability remained intact whilst Kuma's ability would also remain intact when he touches someone and they disappear.

 

[SharpKnives]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Debating is good and all but i have a simple question to ask; If Luffy were to punch Kuma with a haki fist, what would happen if Kuma tried to repel that fist with his DF?

Looking at Luffy's fight with Marigold and Sandersonia would help with the question. Simple question isn't it?

his punch would fly backwards... so? It wouldn't nullify Kumi's powers if that's what you think. Look at Shanks vs Akainu. Shanks defended against the punch but it didn't turn his fist back to a normal one. Though we will have to see more from haki fights to know everything.

 

[Junaid_Sennin]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Whats simple is the fact that you think that Kuma can teloport away anyone he wants to. Meaning that no matter who he fights be it Shanks, Sengoku, Dragon, Rayleigh or any of the Admirals that as long as he can make contact with them that he will basically win seeing as how he can teleport people anywhere. So sending all of the DF users onto the sea gives him an auto win and sending the none DF using into a volcano gives him an auto win on that end as well. See how completely dumb that argument sounds? Luffy training all of this time is completely useless according to your insane argument, seeing as how he clearly can't stop anyones offensive DF attack. Give me a break. Yes Haki isn't sea stone, but it clearly negates DF abilities of those with a lower level of Haki then the user. And if you want to debate that fact, then you must be reading a different manga.

I disagree. Yes, Kuma can teleport away anyone he wants to. Haki can't stop that. Yes, it's hax, but there you go.

However, you've actually hit the nail in the head.

as long as he can make contact with them

So, to fight Kuma, you must not let his paws touch you. It'll be very difficult because of his speed, but not impossible. You can fight him with ranged attacks like Iva did, or you have to surprise him with high speed attacks.

So, haki does not negate devil fruit abilities. Only the Yami Yami no Mi does that. Haki can let you physically harm someone who's df ability would normally protect their body from physical harm (logias, Luffy, Alvida, Das Bones, Buggy, etc.), and you can use haki as an armor to protect your own body from physical harm, but the armor does not render all df abilities that attack you as useless. The admirals created a huge shield with their CoA haki to protect the execution platform from WB's quake attack because a quake is a physical shockwave of super powerful vibrations. Kuma pushes people. If his paws touch you, he could still push you. But the CoA armor can protect you from Kuma's Pad Ho and Tsuppari Pad Ho.

 

[GPZrag]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

I disagree. Yes, Kuma can teleport away anyone he wants to. Haki can't stop that. Yes, it's hax, but there you go.

However, you've actually hit the nail in the head.

So, to fight Kuma, you must not let his paws touch you. It'll be very difficult because of his speed, but not impossible. You can fight him with ranged attacks like Iva did, or you have to surprise him with high speed attacks.

So, haki does not negate devil fruit abilities. Only the Yami Yami no Mi does that. Haki can let you physically harm someone who's df ability would normally protect their body from physical harm (logias, Luffy, Alvida, Das Bones, Buggy, etc.), and you can use haki as an armor to protect your own body from physical harm, but the armor does not render all df abilities that attack you as useless. The admirals created a huge shield with their CoA haki to protect the execution platform from WB's quake attack because a quake is a physical shockwave of super powerful vibrations. Kuma pushes people. If his paws touch you, he could still push you. But the CoA armor can protect you from Kuma's Pad Ho and Tsuppari Pad Ho.

We will have to see about that, so far at least to me its being clear that CoA acts both as defend and offense to DF powers, however it may be as you say we will have to see...

 

[Ramstain]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

Firstly, a question. Answer this first before reading the end.
Would a wood DF (allowing you to turn to wood, grow, etc, similar to Yamamoto from Naruto) be a Logia or a Paramecia?

Imagine yourself in a suit of armour. That is CoA.
Essentially, you are in an armour of invulnerability to attacks, both physical and DF related. This is on an order of magnitude relative to your Haki strength.

DF attacks can be negated and reverted to physical attacks.
Physical attacks can be blocked/counter attacked.

The CoA haki can be used as a weapon, essentially you imagine yourself with a sword or an armoured fist, dealing increased damage and also negating DF abilities.

DF powers are negated and reverted to a physical body.
Physical bodies can be attacked with increased force.

This does not cancel ABILITIES. The ability still exists, and still has its effect, however any attack is reverted. Kizaru's beams would still be lasers, capable of killing someone. Akainu's magma is still magma, and can still torch you. Kuma would still be able to teleport or reject you, there is no immunity to that. Kuma does not attack with attacks, rather with his ability. He is a paramecia, they use abilities, they do not alter their attack.

The only way to avoid Kuma's ability is to evade it. Since he is now a pacifista (and logically, his task is just to kill) he would never use teleport again anyway. The programming would logically state to kill with its beams and reject abilities, rather than to teleport them to a place where there is infact a high chance of survival.

This is where BB's power comes in. He actually ABSORBS the devil fruits aura, cancelling all abilities. But to do this he has to come into contact with their physical body. This is helped by the "Dark Vortex" which sucks the physical body in, and allows him to grip it. If Kuma was to hit him with a teleport first, theres nothing BB can do.

If you said a wood DF would be a logia, then wouldn't Luffy's Gomu gomu no mi be a Logia as well? His whole body has been transformed into rubber, similar to any other Logia DF, whereas a paramecia would just enable some abilities. Possibly even a hybrid DF :P

 

[Rody naruto]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

I thought I was the one saying haki does not cancel DF abilities. The same way luffy didnt stop stretching like you said is the same way kuma's ability in the face of haki would still be intact. Luffy rubber ability remained intact whilst Kuma's ability would also remain intact when he touches someone and they disappear.

http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/597/#17 did you read it.
Sorry didnt see that post.i guess we almost had the sameidea.
See,where u and i agree,is that haki does not cancel the DF power.But where we disagree is that haki cancel the effect of the DF power on the haki user.You see my point?
Rayleigh says it the best:Haki as the ability to attack the weak point of the DF users(not specific but all DF users),also exists as the only way to oppose them"even" the flowing body of a logia(he didnt say only)can be capture as a substantial body.
I hope you see my point on that one.

 

[SharpKnives]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

If Kuma toched dragon in the chest he would be sent flying for three days. Thing is Kuma can't land a hit on Dragon with out being shredded.

 

[Freid]

Re: One Piece 599 Spoilers Discussion Thread

http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/597/#17 did you read it.
Sorry didnt see that post.i guess we almost had the sameidea.
See,where u and i agree,is that haki does not cancel the DF power.But where we disagree is that haki cancel the effect of the DF power on the haki user.You see my point?
Rayleigh says it the best:Haki as the ability to attack the weak point of the DF users(not specific but all DF users),also exists as the only way to oppose them"even" the flowing body of a logia(he didnt say only)can be capture as a substantial body.
I hope you see my point on that one.

I get your point but when Rayleigh said it also exists as the only way to oppose some devil fruits, he was solely talking about logias and maybe even Marcos pheonix ability. Basically any devil fruit that grants the user intangibility and no weaknesses like crocodiles. It makes sense, you literally cannot oppose some logias without haki. However you can still oppose Kuma however hax his devil fruit may be. The conclusion to this should simply be Kuma's ability is hax. That is why some people find it so hard to believe that kuma could just go around teleporting people. Im sure he can and if Oda was to show the full potential of his fruit, you would be seeing allot of that. But Oda has to put a cap on how much he can do since he isn't supposed to as strong as the yonkous.