Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 1

[Drmke]

Lot to talk about this week

Bleach in the bottom five is hilarious; it hasn't been this low since like 2001/2002 I believe.

Ikkyu is still high and officially gets ranked next week, I'm excited!! New Mago arc sounds exciting though I figure it'll be them trying to figure out who's behind reviving the 100 Tales.

New series might be good though I have little hope. I never did care much for Mx0 or Pretty Face but still nice to see him return since I know a ton of people here and on LiveJournal were upset it took so long. The Stars sounds....I dunno. Hopefully we can get some info on the plot? But assistant to Hoop Men's artist is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[k-dom]

I don't think it's with chapter like this week that Bleach will go up...

 

[sohvapaikka]

Someday i would like to see new series at jump that is so good from the start, that it's going to wipe out even the big 3.
Ofcourse there is 99,9 % change that this won't happen, but wouldn't it be pretty cool?

 

[Drmke]

Eventually a manga that rivals our big three will show up (probably not revival One Piece in sales though), it happens every so often. I'm sure nobody thought anything would ever rival Dragonball and Slam Dunk but one year after both were out of the magazine One Piece shows up and tops them.

 

[Kaiten]

Somewhere in Japan Kubo's editor is pistol whipping him....

New Kano is intriguing mostly because he was away so long. I have never read Pretty Face or mx0, so no real judgment to make. L∞P and Akazukin Eliza were both entertaining though. Maybe he'll bring some ecchi back to Jump. Since ToRa left and Medaka started focusing on action, Jump has felt oddly neutered.

 

[Googlez_kun]

Kano made L∞P?Well,now,i'm interested!Hope he will bring a fresh breeze into JUMP.

As for Bleach: lol.

 

[Kaiten]

It will only get worse for Bleach, wait until last weeks chapter is ranked :xD

 

[come come paradise]

You really shouldn't say that about KochiKame. It does have noteriety...well in Japan and it really can't be compared to anything else in the magazine since it's essentially from another age where series like this were more fruitful. I sort of wish I could get back to TLing the series (at least the stories from the 70s) so I could boost up more interest in Ryotsu but I really think the series does deserve a bit more respect.

Disrespect was not my intention, I just meant that Kochikame is kept in Jump for reasons other than pure rankings, which is the route Bleach might be headed if it continues this way. I just added the "without a fanbase" because unlike KochiKame, Bleach doesn't have that aura of legend behind it or whatever. Although that was very categorical of me, it's true fan support for Bleach is more than dwindling.
But wow, Kinnikuman avy and KochiKame translator, guess you like the old classics =P

Love your analysis, kewl.

Somewhere in Japan Kubo's editor is pistol whipping him....

Forcing detergent down his throat would seem like a more appropriate punishment xP

 

[Drmke]

Disrespect was not my intention, I just meant that Kochikame is kept in Jump for reasons other than pure rankings, which is the route Bleach might be headed if it continues this way. I just added the "without a fanbase" because unlike KochiKame, Bleach doesn't have that aura of legend behind it or whatever. Although that was very categorical of me, it's true fan support for Bleach is more than dwindling.
But wow, Kinnikuman avy and KochiKame translator, guess you like the old classics =P

No way they'd keep Bleach around like Kochi Kame...they'll dump it like Shaman King and many others before it. Granted they'll give Kubo more time to turn the series around but if he can't do it, they'll force him to end it early. It's long enough to were I don't see them worrying about ending it.

 

[Kaiten]

Kochikame is one of the five best selling manga ever. Along with Dragonball and OP, it is Jump's flagship series. Bleach has been a very, very popular series but nowhere near the level of those three. If the polls don't pick up and sales start to drop, Jump won't be sentimental. It would have to be a long term decline though, don't expect Bleach to be canceled this year. If it does not recover they will move it or put it out of it's misery sometime in 2012.

Kewl got it right though, Kubo is being punished for starting a new series and calling it Bleach. Not having a single major fight since the end of Deicide just adds insult to injury. Somebody somewhere is probably telling Kubo that the future of Bleach depends on bringing shinigami back and remembering that it is an action manga not a training manga.

 

[Koen]

Kanou is back Kanou is back ... Psyren/Iwashiro Toshiaki a series/section I took care of a lot was preceded by my other beloved section/series which I promoted a lot too mx0

Yasuhiro Kanou is back but I hope that he won't be axed fast like Nishi Yoshiyuki... Come on, Kano, you can do it

(by me is fanboy)

When Mieru Hito/Iwashiro Toshiaki was axed by Jump: mx0 by Yasuhiro Kano was given to me by jump
When mx0 was axed by Jump: Psyren by Iwashiro Toshiaki was given to me by jump
When Psyren was axed by Jump: Kagami no Kuni no Harisugawa by Kanou Yasuhiro is given to me by jump

------> WSJ always gives me my luck

 

[come come paradise]

No way they'd keep Bleach around like Kochi Kame...they'll dump it like Shaman King and many others before it. Granted they'll give Kubo more time to turn the series around but if he can't do it, they'll force him to end it early. It's long enough to were I don't see them worrying about ending it.

Actually I'm not so sure, I saw the choice to prolong Bleach after the end of Aizen more like a decision from the editorial department than Kubo himself. A bit like they were deciding to let Naruto end (it's heading there) and make up for it by stretching Bleach as far as they can. Because story-wise, it did not make sense at all, and I certainly hope Kubo's ego isn't that big. Either way, I can't see Jump letting go of it any time soon.

Bleach is almost twice as long as Shaman King was btw, it ran for 10 years now, it's in the top 10 of Shueisha's best-selling series of all time and it sells much more than SK did. Then again I'm probably biased because I never liked SK.

 

[Googlez_kun]

Actually I'm not so sure, I saw the choice to prolong Bleach after the end of Aizen more like a decision from the editorial department than Kubo himself. A bit like they were deciding to let Naruto end (it's heading there) and make up for it by stretching Bleach as far as they can. Because story-wise, it did not make sense at all, and I certainly hope Kubo's ego isn't that big. Either way, I can't see Jump letting go of it any time soon.

Bleach is almost twice as long as Shaman King was btw, it ran for 10 years now, it's in the top 10 of Shueisha's best-selling series of all time and it sells much more than SK did. Then again I'm probably biased because I never liked SK.

But that doesn't mean that they are pleased with what they are served.It's obvious that JUMP wants to get every single drop out of the cashcow,so they gave it a try,especially because it worked beforehand with the Arrancar arc.But as Kaiten fittingly said,Kubo created a new manga and called it Bleach.Kubo craped into their milk bucket and if he continues with this,they'll simply cancel it.

 

[[Cross]]

But that doesn't mean that they are pleased with what they are served.It's obvious that JUMP wants to get every single drop out of the cashcow,so they gave it a try,especially because it worked beforehand with the Arrancar arc.But as Kaiten fittingly said,Kubo created a new manga and called it Bleach.Kubo craped into their milk bucket and if he continues with this,they'll simply cancel it.

Isn't it also because the audience of the two is different? Because Kochi Kame has gone on for so long and because of the nature of the series, the old school audience will come back for Kochi Kame. It's kinda like how the Simpsons is now, it continues its stay regardless of what the majority of people seem to think of it (though I don't know enough of Kochi Kame to talk about it's current quality). Kids that read Bleach and get bored with it will stop reading it, and they'll probably see that and get worried.

 

[StrangerAtaru]

But wow, Kinnikuman avy and KochiKame translator, guess you like the old classics =P

I mostly just stick with older Jump with my translations. I've done most of Kinnikuman (well aside from what was already done...I need to do my own version of the chapters I didn't do someday), two volumes of KochiKame, Otokojuku, Nube and I was doing Ta-chan...until I lost my time for it due to circumstances. (there is also Bo-bobo but that isn't quite as old...though it did turn 10 this year)

Regarding Bleach: most times even with "popular" series, if the series does descend and stays down there, the editor pressures them until they just ultimately end it. Kubo could still turn it around but if it remains flat, then the series is gone regardless of whatever 10 year plan he had for it. Somehow I think he just became way too overambitious with the new stuff and it shows; maybe if he mixed it in while answering some long-awaited questions, this wouldn't have been such a massive descent.

 

[Jaymie]

I wonder if Bleach will actually hit rock bottom? I've never seen a Top 3 series tank like this before, so it's interesting to see how bad the trainwreck will end up.

 

[CannedJam]

I'm curious. Did Shaman King start performing so badly that it was canned?

As stated, Bleach will skyrocket back to the top once a familiar face is shown. That

 

[perroloco]

Guys, seeing BLEACH on bottom 5 confirms my theory. As I have been saying since BLEACH Soul Society started..
Kubo Tite has always been pulling a Kurumada on us (Kurumada from Ring Ni Kakero and Saint Seiya fame) I always knew it!! Heck, even Kubo Tite himself declared himself a Kurumada fan (And To-Love Ru too but that's beside the point).
What I mean is that for me BLEACH was always a Saint Seiya clone manga.. It was just the characters, how the Soul Society was developed it was very reminiscent of Kurumada's style:
-In Saint Seiya there is this place called the 12 Houses where each house is guarded by a Saint with a Gold Cloth i.e. Aries house is guarded by Aries saint, mm... Gotei 13 anyone? Also there are lots of similarities between the Saints and the Gotei members, yeah I know Shonen characters tend to be cliched but heck.. Even Gemini and Aizen are pretty much the same thing.
-Seiya pulls Deus Ex Machina after Deus Ex Machina. Ditto Ichigo.
-Saori Kido dammsel in distress. Rukia in SS. Orihime in forgot its name arc.

And now the last thing I predicted.. Kubo would continue its manga like Kurumada did with Saint Seiya, and as history has shown us it will rank very, very bad..

Although BLEACH has lasted longer than SS did and probably won't get cancelled, SS glorious days were in the 12 Houses Arc, Poseidon was so-so although fans were getting tired of the repetitivity of SS (Its pretty much the same as BLEACH fight, fight, fight) Poseidon arc is like Hueco Mundo Arc.. Hades arc was scheduled to be animated and all yet the anime adaptation was cancelled it was like 10 years later the OVAs appeared in early 2000s.. Supposedly SS anime was cancelled because the toy line didn't sold as it used to, since TOEI dropped SS anime then Kurumada got lower and lower rankings in JUMP and thus SS ended abruptly, it had a good ending but it showed it was very abrupt.. I.e. the battle against the last villian is less than a volume while other villian fights were longer..
Anyway I don't think BLEACH anime is gonna be cancelled, why then would they have continue with filler? But Kubo Tite needs to speed up, make more material per chapter!

 

[Zeltrax]

My two cents on Bleach.
Kubo is actually talented and Bleach was actually good.
The few simple arcs at the beginning was gold, SS was awesome and addicting.
But Bleach has fallen, I want to believe there is still hope for it, I really do.
It was one of my favorite manga all the way until Hueco Muncho, I looked pass the "another rescue arc plothole" and various stuff,
even then it was good.
However when it moved towards the end of the arrancar arc, it went downhill and got worse when kubo only cares about
making his characters look cool.
Even then, the tocs and rankings weren't as bad because the shinigamis(and certain fan characters) were there. The plot wasn't decent
but at the very least Bleach is still somehow following its plot of Ichigo being a shinigami and fighting to protect others.

After the timeskip, everything has gone to trash. Kubo has no sense of direction, at all.
Almost every single chapter has no substance and I think even the readers can tell that this writer have no idea what he is doing.
Nothing of the original plot is there in this current arc, nothing that can make the readers feel like this is still the same old bleach.
I already said that he is talented but he has too much pride and believe that whatever he thinks of, its great and everyone will love it.
I'm glad that the ToCs is proving him wrong and that people are tired of his storytelling.

Sorry about the long blabber, but the only way Bleach can get back to top 3 again is when the shinigamis come back.

 

[perroloco]

The funny thing is that if Kubo would have stick to its formula BLEACH would no doubt be at least top 5 in the TOC..
Heck, I am gonna re-read everything that has happened so far and compare how many things have happened, I am fairly sure Oda or Kishimoto would have taken a lot less chapters than Kubo took..