Discussion Use(s) of Haki

[Ninja_Pirate]

@Jorge D. Dragon- you meant like "reiatsu" in bleach

Definitely there have been lot of incidents where haki has been used, out of which many were pretty obvious that it was haki however the term was introduced late .... When first time it happened with Duval's buffalo from there only discussion about luffy's haki started.. haki i think was first mentioned when shanks visited WB's ship..

About kuja pirates arrows also prediction sof haki has been made.. (since by that time whatever unexplained thing happens... everything has to be blamed on haki) .. though that time no one knows how it works

CoO- whenever someone has used it he has always mentioned the future movements.. so yes we know whenever it has been used in the manga....

CoA- May be sometimes it has not been mentioned.. like when rayleigh stopped kizaru's kick.. but like when garp hits luffy on head... it was sepcifically mentioned that he is rubber , how can it still hurts... though if it wudnt have been mentioned.. it was obvious that something is strange.. as it was obvious in rayleigh kizaru case..

CoC- I think its not worth mentioning abt this... pretty obvious.. always can be pointed out..

 

[kkck]

Ok, I might be wrong. But still when Shanks got on Whitebeard's ship to talk to WB and was using his CoQ Haki to show of it was quite visible. It looked like when in Bleach characters felt opponents with overwelming Reiatsu.

That was the anime only. In the manga no such thing was visible, assuming it would actually count as visible lol. Heck, in the manga the conqueror's haki did not even have a physical effect on things, it has just affected living things so far.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

kkck
My bad. Sometimes I'm putting some moments from the anime and think that they were in the manga, but still at least this effect of CoQ was shown in every case in the anime. So it might be canon? Of course not 100% canon, but as much as the colour of hair or the sound of voice?

 

[kkck]

I am not sure I got your last post....


_____________________

I was thinking red leg (sanji's teacher, can't recall his name) and the owl guy from CP9 could be haki users. Zeff (?) was able to hit luffy and luffy commented the punch actually hurt and the whole doukiri thing reeks of observation haki.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I just thought that sometimes in anime several things can be considered as canon: voices of characters, the colour of clothes, the colour of hair and also such moments as visible effect from CoQ. Even though the last statement is just my guess.

You might be right on Zeff, but also there is a posibility that his kick was just so hard that he managed to inflict sufficient damage to make Luffy feel pain. It was the same with Lucci's Rokugan and some others moves.

 

[kkck]

I would think that for the most part voices are irrelevant to the cannon since the comics won't be speaking anyways. The visible effect of the color of the conqueror has not been seen or implied even once in the manga so we don't have any reason whatsoever to think that there is such a thing. Heck, we have no reason whatsoever to believe the color of the conqueror can actually affect physical things as shanks apparently did in the anime.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

kkck
Actually if advanced CoQ can't literary destroy some objects like Shanks did it would be pointless, cause in the majority of the cases it isn't used even to clean fodder, so why Oda even had to introduce it? I don't believe that it would be useful in the sense that Rayleigh and Luffy did on Sabaondy against fodder pirates and Tenryubito guards.

 

[kkck]

Well, do we have any canonical reason to believe the color of the conquerors can actually affect physical things? Heck, we even know that falls within the range of color of armor. Based on what we have seen, I think the color of the conqueror is basically a mark of someone exceptional rather than something inherently useful as the color or armor or observation. Perhaps the inherent intimidation caused by the color of the conqueror could have a tool on enemies during long fights but I doubt it can actually cause physical damage.

 

[Uriel]

Well, could be that Luffy reaches a new level on Conqueror, but as far as we know it doesn't have those characteristics.

 

[ownage404]

I didnt read through all the comments because there's way too many pages but-

Haki has took on different names in the manga before the whole concept of it was revealed by Rayleigh. I believe it was called "vigour and drive" and "willpower" but also different names for the 3 branches of haki. So if you consider the naming Oda gave, haki seems to give a upper hand in a battle to the person will the most will to go forward, most to lose and fighting capability. It also can counteract a logia user because they can normally not be hit with a normal attack but rather the attack muse be imbued with haki. How you do that? I don't know. So that muse mean that anybody that can block the hit of a logia attack or cause any pain towards a logia has haki even if they are inadvertingly doing it.

 

[moriab]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I'm sorry if this is not the place to post this,,, why didn't WB use hake at the beginning of the war, he would have taken a lot of marines, and we also know that ace can use the king haki, why didn't he use it ? does the kairosoky shut down haki ??

 

[lilsizzo]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I'm sorry if this is not the place to post this,,, why didn't WB use hake at the beginning of the war, he would have taken a lot of marines, and we also know that ace can use the king haki, why didn't he use it ? does the kairosoky shut down haki ??

yeah it is in the wrong thread....quick answer is that whitebeard is old....i think haki is affected by age and even if he is able to use haki...we would not be able to react to the danger being as old as he is...and i believe the marine there should be filtered to almsot 90% could withstand coc. kairosoky i believe is the stone right? if i am right it only shuts down ability from the devil fruit....now lets all discuss this in another thread...=)


i think the chapter 634 mention 100k pirates is roughly a figure and thus so defeating 50k of them would also be a figure.....there was a panel where it shows almost all the pirates but mostly are being displayed as dot. it seems robin are not really used to haki as she says..."this is haki" or smtg like tat..like she nvr experienced it before...or could be the reason she said that is she have no COC. =)

 

[Tonix]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I'm sorry if this is not the place to post this,,, why didn't WB use hake at the beginning of the war, he would have taken a lot of marines, and we also know that ace can use the king haki, why didn't he use it ? does the kairosoky shut down haki ??

As Zoro said, those weren't elite marines. I highly doubt that Luffy would be able to knock out as many enemies if they had been marines instead.

 

[zelllogan]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I hope that all strong guys (and ladies) in the new world are not Haki users. If Haki is the only way in order to be strong, then I would be disappointed.

 

[kidopitz27]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I hope that all strong guys (and ladies) in the new world are not Haki users. If Haki is the only way in order to be strong, then I would be disappointed.

i think some of them can use haki (CoO and CoA) that's why they can survive in the New World but not literally strong than Shank's Crew but some of them can use haki i hope Straw hats will encounter a dog yes a normal dog with CoQ that would be hilarious like that dog is guarding a tomb of its owner and some people rumors that theres a hidden treasure in the tomb so a lot of grave robbers tries to steal it and boom they've been knockdown by the dog using CoQ hehehehehehe

 

[kkck]

Re: One Piece 634 Discussion / 635 Prediction

I don't know about that . I mean sooner o later , Zoro and Sanji will learn how to use COA for sure, maybe COO but i doubt anyone expect Luffy will master COC . Later on the manga, maybe someone like Robin ,Usopp , Nami or Chopper will learn how to use COO .
If you think about it in Whitebeard crew, only Marco,Vista, Ace and WB himself could use haki , and that was the best crew in the world (maybe except for shank's and BB now ) . As for the marine's , only vice admirals and admirals can use haki, yeah there's Coby too , but he is destined to be at least a VA someday .
Haki doesn't mean win automatically every match, but if the top 3 fighters already have it, then they are gonna be able to at least face any situation . And we've got to remember that there are another 500-600 chapters before the end , so i wouldn't mind if at first, only Luffy could deal with Logia and Haki user .
Oda really turn up the expectations for the new world, and surely it's gonna be tough , but we already witness somehow what the "top" is , so IMO is best to delay the SH's approach to top for a while.

Well, we did kinda see Rayleigh using COC and he was only the second mate of the crew. It is extremely likely roger had it too given his position meaning the previous PK crew had two users of that particular type of haki. Marco, vista, jozu and WB are only the confirmed haki users but we really have no idea about the rest (. Worth mentioning, that crew with WB and ace had 2 COC users. Also, by high ranking marines I meant the admirals and VAs (of which the manga has shown at least 12). There are a few other WB pirates who I would think is extremely likely they can use haki to some degree. Fozza, Jiru, Atmos, Haruta, Kingdew, Blenheim... they are all experience fighters who have made a name for themselves in the strongest crew in the world. These guys are meant to fight admirals and VAs, given the conditions and that they seem mostly like physical fighters I doubt they won't have haki.

Now, first of all I don't think haki will automatically win every match, far from that. Even the facing any situation is a bit of a stretch although it is worth saying they kinda trained for 2 years for just that. Haki is something that comes with time and experience, I don't think the strawhats will only rarely face other haki users. To be completely honest I expect any enemy the strawhats have with a certain degree of strength to be a haki user at some level.

 

[k-dom]

This is rly is only about visuals. Doesn't rly affect the plot in any notable way. Maybe it is just me, but I don't see it as drastic. I see this is as a different writing style.

Before haki was fully explained, Oda had us in suspense the whole time. Haki was labeled as mysterious force, until its explanation. Only after then we knew exactly what haki was. So I think with Oda confirming haki, he added an additional visual feature. Just to make sure we are informed whenever haki is used. By adding a visual effect, Oda also saves the trouble of confirming haki usage by side characters. That is why I don't think black hardening is just limited to Luffy.

Anyway, I don't think the consistency has been disturbed. It is just that before Haki was fully explained, it was a mysterious force. By explaining it in detail, Oda (might have) wrapped it up by adding a visual feature.

But Haki should not get colored because we, readers, know now how it works. That would be a really unconventional breaking of the 4th wall which is something Oda never do.
Plus I don't think it would be a clever idea to do such thing. Like you said, at the moment it is up to us to guess if a character used haki or not. Making haki visible by using a color would clearly limit this liberty that Oda has. He would need for each character to decide if the attack is haki one or not, if he has mastered haki or not. Imagine the war with such a rule, that would have been a nightmare for him.

The paw hitting Caribou can't be seen. Only prior, but not the moment it is hitting him. Pekoms only acted a moment before Caribou's attack reached him. Thus everything was extremely fast.

Sorry but you can clearly see the hand and it is not black

Diable Jambe might work similar to that. Because it seems since the time skip, Sanji doesn't have to rotate (or whatever he does) anymore. Due to his haki control it seems he can produce heat without rapid movements. Not sure though, just guessing here.

Actually I don't remember seeing Sanji rotating when using Diable jambe except for the first time it was used...

For whatever reason the conventional wisdom is that conqueror's haki can only be used to knock out fodder, even though that directly contradicts the manga.

Maybe because it does not contradict the manga and it is you who is extrapolating that a rare gift makes it automatically very powerful.

 

[BlackHair]

But Haki should not get colored because we, readers, know now how it works. That would be a really unconventional breaking of the 4th wall which is something Oda never do.

Actually Oda never set any clear limits to black hardening. Only the fanbase assumed it to be limited to solely Luffy. While in fact Oda never specified it. I wouldn't see it as "breaking a wall".

In a way it is similar to BB obtaining a second fruit. While the manga hinted such thing to be impossible, Oda never confirmed it for real. With BB eating another fruit, he broke that pseudo rule.

Plus I don't think it would be a clever idea to do such thing. Like you said, at the moment it is up to us to guess if a character used haki or not. Making haki visible by using a color would clearly limit this liberty that Oda has. He would need for each character to decide if the attack is haki one or not, if he has master haki or not.

It is a authors job to illustrate and explain the manga to his reader. By no means is it our job to guess the events. It is one thing to not explain while haki is still in buildup, but another to let the reader (sometimes) in dark, even after haki was explained. IMHO open writing, left to the readers imaginations is nothing but inchoate and lazy writing.

Imagine the war with such a rule, that would have been a nightmare for him.

Oda is not just a author, he is a art illustrator! The point in drawing is to illustrate visually the authors thoughts to his reader. Otherwise they could just go and write novels. Art illustrator are about detailed drawing, not just writing.

Personally I think it is much easier to colour a body part/weapon black, than having a character always confirming haki by words. It also saves at least one speech bubble/panel.

Sorry but you can clearly the hand and it is not black

You got me wrong. As Luffy used CoA Gomu² no Kane, only his face turned black, but not his whole head. Basically the manga confirms that not a whole body part needs to turn black. In Pekom's particular punch, the front side of his fist can not be seen.

This is why I said the scene was too fast. Oda did not invest any zoomed panels in Pekoms punch. He just left them out. Unlike for several detailed CoA attacks of Luffy. And I believe Vergo as well (panel 2-4).

Actually I don't remember seeing Sanji rotating when using Diable jambe except for the first time it was used...

I believe to explain how the move works, Oda had Sanji rotate him in its first usage. After that it seemed he used diable jumbe in momentum. But in post timeskip there were no momentum or anything. Out of the blue his foot had heat.

Anyway I'm most likely reading too much into it, I admit that. But I'm just trying to combine Sanji's fire movement to haki. Since I'm no fan of elemental attacks, if they are not given by technology or devil fruit. But like said, I'm not rly confident in this. Oda explained haki for us. There shouldn't be any more hidden techniques related to haki. Therefore, I don't expect any connection to Sanji's move.

 

[k-dom]

Actually Oda never set any clear limits to black hardening. Only the fanbase assumed it to be limited to solely Luffy. While in fact Oda never specified it. I wouldn't see it as "breaking a wall".

In a way it is similar to BB obtaining a second fruit. While the manga hinted such thing to be impossible, Oda never confirmed it for real. With BB eating another fruit, he broke that pseudo rule.

If luffy like blacbeard is the exception then i have no problem with it. Oda will give an explanation for blackbeard, i already said one for luffy would be good too.

It is a authors job to illustrate and explain the manga to his reader. By no means is it our job to guess the events. It is one thing to not explain while haki is still in buildup, but another to let the reader (sometimes) in dark, even after haki was explained. IMHO open writing, left to the readers imaginations is nothing but inchoate and lazy writing.

Oda is not just a author, he is a art illustrator! The point in drawing is to illustrate visually the authors thoughts to his reader. Otherwise they could just go and write novels. Art illustrator are about detailed drawing, not just writing.

Personally I think it is much easier to colour a body part/weapon black, than having a character always confirming haki by words. It also saves at least one speech bubble/panel.

Is that really important to know for every attacks if haki has been used or not ? I prefer than Oda use his time for thungs that really matters.
And by nightmare, i wasn't talking about illustration issue but rather the need to decide for the hundredth of characters their haki level which was pointless and only the source of endless discussion

 

[BlackHair]

I really do think an additional feature is needed. Be it "sfx" or "colouring", something is necessary. At the moment haki is nothing but a invisible force. While CoC has a clear visual characterization, CoA and CoO do not have one. I don't think CoO needs any, but CoA definitely does.

Furthermore I don't want to always read character lines confirming haki. I mean after the first saga in the NW, I expect haki to be all day normal issue. Therefore at some point those lines will still portray haki as a new thing. Which would just seem inconsistent.

And by nightmare, i wasn't talking about illustration issue but rather the need to decide for the hundredth of characters their haki level which was pointless and only the source of endless discussion

I think by creating a character Oda will have to fix on the details anyway. Haki is one of those details, so Oda will have to know regardless. Moreover, by colouring he doesn't necessarily state anything about their haki lvl, just that the character have haki or not.

For me the discussions are one of the reasons I want a visual confirmation. With illustrated CoA, we will avoid "does he have haki?" topics. Basically we will save time and annoying haki posts.

Anywy, I don't rly see any further need to discuss this. I believe we both have said what we wanted. At least I don't have anything to add anymore xD Further posts will just lead us to repeat our arguments. We will have to wait until Oda reveals Vergo's abilities. Then we will have our answer.