Luffy vs. Zoro! Who would win?

[DutchPhoenix]

luffy saved zoro's life in the first arc , thats why he stays within the crew, not because luffy is stronger.

 

[kkck]

Zoro also ultimately follows luffy because he wants to, however if luffy was not a strong enough leader in several aspects then zoro would not follow. Take a look at the part where ussop left the crew. Had luffy not shown strong determination as a leader zoro would have left the crew. Zoro expects luffy to live up to each and every one of his captain duties which also includes being strong enough to protect the crew. If luffy could not fulfill his captain duties towards zoro then zoro would not allow him to be his captain.

 

[Loreus]

Luffy didnt show strong determination at the Ussop incident. He had Zoro lecturing him about it...

And leadership is nowhere about being the strongest. Seriously. Its more about getting a group along with spirit and such that people wrote earlier in this thread.

And lol @ people who disagree but dont want to discuss because they dont have arguments.

 

[Naruffy]

Luffy didnt show strong determination at the Ussop incident. He had Zoro lecturing him about it...

And leadership is nowhere about being the strongest. Seriously. Its more about getting a group along with spirit and such that people wrote earlier in this thread.

And lol @ people who disagree but dont want to discuss because they dont have arguments.

Clearly people are misunderstanding what I was trying to say.

If One Piece was set in an ordinary world, like ours, then by all means being strong has no bearings on being a leader. But One Piece isn't like our world so different rules apply. It's a pirate world, and while being able to keep a group together is important, so is stength. If Luffy was as strong as Ussop but had his same attitude, where would his crew be now? What was is that prevented him from saving Ace? what was it that caused him to lose his crew on Sabaody Archipelago? Why did everyone on the crew decide to train for 2 years? To build strength. One Piece is set in a pirate world where it takes more than just spirit and a strong will to get you to the top. Luffy would be nothing with just strength, but the opposite is also true. From the beginning Luffy's strength, along with his attitude to bring people together, is what has brought his crew together. List all the people at the top of the One Piece world and tell me if they got there just because of their attitude.

I didn't want to discuss because it seemed like no-one was understanding me, not because I didn't have an argument. I posted my opinion a good amount of times and saw that it was getting me nowhere, so how can you say I don't have an argument?

 

[kkck]

I think this thread perhaps deserves a revision given what we have recently seen of luffy and zoro. Lets take a look at their recent battles. Luffy has shown a number of new attacks, including his ability to one shot pacifistas with his gear two punch. The same punch also got to hyozu although hyozu was perfectly able to block it with while taking negligible damage. Then we saw zoro fighting hodi underwater and one shotting him basically. Then we saw zoro fighting awakened hyozu and as we saw the guy was less than a match at best, zoro called him outright weak whereas luffy thought he would be strong. Luffy and zoro were both trained by legendary monsters, Raleigh and Mihawk and both have shown insane growth (although I don't think neither has surpassed their masters yet). Given what we have seen, it is possible for zoro to actually have surpassed luffy? If this is the case then it would be a huge plot point in the future, one that could actually threaten the crew as a whole as there is no reason for zoro to have a captain who is equal or weaker than himself.

 

[Naruffy]

I think this thread perhaps deserves a revision given what we have recently seen of luffy and zoro. Lets take a look at their recent battles. Luffy has shown a number of new attacks, including his ability to one shot pacifistas with his gear two punch. The same punch also got to hyozu although hyozu was perfectly able to block it with while taking negligible damage. Then we saw zoro fighting hodi underwater and one shotting him basically. Then we saw zoro fighting awakened hyozu and as we saw the guy was less than a match at best, zoro called him outright weak whereas luffy thought he would be strong. Luffy and zoro were both trained by legendary monsters, Raleigh and Mihawk and both have shown insane growth (although I don't think neither has surpassed their masters yet). Given what we have seen, it is possible for zoro to actually have surpassed luffy? If this is the case then it would be a huge plot point in the future, one that could actually threaten the crew as a whole as there is no reason for zoro to have a captain who is equal or weaker than himself.

I don't really think there has been enough to judge whether or not Zoro has surpassed Luffy, considering Zoro hasn't really been seen pushed to his limits. You point about Hyouzu makes sense though, I can only really say that either it was an inconsistency of his strength or it was just because Luffy hit 3 people simultaneously so it made it easier for him to block. I think both Luffy and Sanji could of done the same thing to Hodi underwater (unreleased Hodi and Luffy w/ a bubble) considering that Hodi was still able to hold King Neptune and capture them afterwards. It would be interesting if that happened, it would shake the crew a lot more than Usopp leaving IMO, I wouldn't want it to happen, just because of that though, Zoro seems to of put Luffy's ambitions before his own however.

 

[kkck]

I never agreed with the notion that zoro puts luffy's ambition before his own. Zoro did set his pride aside when he asked mihawk to train him however when asked about it he responded "to surpass you (mihawk)" which would obviously grant him his dream. Anyways, zoro is bent on fulfilling his responsibilities towards luffy and the crew however there is no scenario under which I could see him carrying the weight of luffy's captain responsibilities if luffy cannot (which would be the case under any scenario under which zoro is stronger than luffy).

 

[Naruffy]

I never agreed with the notion that zoro puts luffy's ambition before his own. Zoro did set his pride aside when he asked mihawk to train him however when asked about it he responded "to surpass you (mihawk)" which would obviously grant him his dream. Anyways, zoro is bent on fulfilling his responsibilities towards luffy and the crew however there is no scenario under which I could see him carrying the weight of luffy's captain responsibilities if luffy cannot (which would be the case under any scenario under which zoro is stronger than luffy).

If Zoro didn't put Luffy before himself, he wouldn't of asked for Mihawks help. Mihawk himself said it. He wasn't doing that just so he could beat Mihawk in the future, or else it wouldn't make any sense he only chose to do that after he realized what had happened to Luffy in the war and Luffy's decision for them to meet in 2 years.

Spoiler

He wouldn't of sacrificed himself for Luffy's sake w/ regards to Kuma as well.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Zoro is no way as strong as Luffy not even talking about surpassing Luffy. Luffy was as strong as Zoro and Sanji together before timeskip and then he fought at Impel Down and Marineford and then he was trained by the strongest teacher among those who trained Mugivaras. Also Luffy not only got better with his DF, but also got insanely good with Haki.
I would say that the diference between Luffy and Zoro got even bigger after the timeskip. Luffy could have one-shotted both Hodi and Hyozou, but he didn't have need in it and while he was fighting Hodi in water he was obviously at great disadvantage, because his powered was drained by water. Also I don't think that Zoro or Sanji would have done better against Hodi.

 

[BlackHair]

Zoro is no way as strong as Luffy not even talking about surpassing Luffy. Luffy was as strong as Zoro and Sanji together before timeskip and then he fought at Impel Down and Marineford and then he was trained by the strongest teacher among those who trained Mugivaras. Also Luffy not only got better with his DF, but also got insanely good with Haki.
I would say that the diference between Luffy and Zoro got even bigger after the timeskip. Luffy could have one-shotted both Hodi and Hyozou, but he didn't have need in it and while he was fighting Hodi in water he was obviously at great disadvantage, because his powered was drained by water. Also I don't think that Zoro or Sanji would have done better against Hodi.

I lol'd at Luffy as strong as Sanji and Zoro together. In the datebook and also in the SBS Oda pointed out that Zoro is close to Luffys strength, not to mention in the manga Zoro is always portrayed close to Luffy while Sanji close to Zoro.

Now about the 2nd bolded part of ur post, I don't think for several reasons that Rayleigh can beat Mihawk. After all for all we know Rayleigh is a swordsman.

Anyway, like said before Luffy will be always the strongest. However Sanji and Zoro will be always close to him, in respect of the monster trio. Otherwise there would be only one monster in the crew.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

BlackHair
1. I'm actually going by Luffy's Zoro's and Sanji's oponents. The same Ennies Lobby Arc, when Luffy took out 5000 soldiers, then took Bruno who was 4th strongest in CP9 and then won against the strongest Lucci who was as strong as Kaku and Jabura together. After that every Arc Luffy always got bigger power up than Zoro or Sanji, so for me it is quite obvious that he was as strong as Zoro and Sanji together. And after timeskip I believe that the difference got even bigger.
2. Yes I do believe that Rayleigh is stronger than Mihawk. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, but we didn't see anything aside from swordsmanship from him, while Rayleigh is also a unarmed fighter and also the best Haki user so far as we saw in manga...
Of course I agree that there is Monster Trio, but it's not because they are close to each other, but because they are far from others in the crew and also their stregth is inhuman as mentioned at some point by Usopp.

 

[Zehahaha]

BlackHair
1. I'm actually going by Luffy's Zoro's and Sanji's oponents. The same Ennies Lobby Arc, when Luffy took out 5000 soldiers, then took Bruno who was 4th strongest in CP9 and then won against the strongest Lucci who was as strong as Kaku and Jabura together. After that every Arc Luffy always got bigger power up than Zoro or Sanji, so for me it is quite obvious that he was as strong as Zoro and Sanji together. And after timeskip I believe that the difference got even bigger.
2. Yes I do believe that Rayleigh is stronger than Mihawk. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, but we didn't see anything aside from swordsmanship from him, while Rayleigh is also a unarmed fighter and also the best Haki user so far as we saw in manga...
Of course I agree that there is Monster Trio, but it's not because they are close to each other, but because they are far from others in the crew and also their stregth is inhuman as mentioned at some point by Usopp.

> Implying that Lucci's strenght is superior to the both of Kaku and Jabura's strenght
> Implying that Zoro/Sanji couldn't have done the same thing to the 5K soldiers and Bruno.
> Implying that Mihawk don't know about Haki
> Implying that the fact that Mihawk used to be the rival of one of the Yonkou is just bullshit

You gotta prove what you say Jorge... Implying is a thing, proving it is better.

 

[kkck]

Well, to be fair back then zoro and sanji won rather confortably against kaku and jyabura (both of them proceeded to fight 100 marine captains) while luffy fought to the bitter end and was left almost dead. I would also argue their boost work rather differently so to speak so a strength comparison should always be taken into context. I don't see how we can argue kyutoryu and diable jambe do not provide a comparable boost to gear two when the first usage of those two attacks confortably defeated two hybrid zoan users. In this regard, if sanji and zoro had fought to the bitter end with either of them as luffy did with lucci then I would argue zoro and sanji are far behind luffy but what actually happened was that they won with a rather comfortable margin by one shooting them with their new techniques. Maybe they would not have won but it would not have been strange for either of them to give lucci trouble once their kyutoryu and diable jambe came into the equation.

Now, as of this arc it is no longer true that every arc it is luffy who defeats the strongest enemy. Wasn't hyozu stronger than hodi in the end? At the very least to me it does not make sense that wasn't the case. Zoro won comfortably against awakened hyozu who should have been a beast if his boost was similar to hodi's. Heck, luffy used gear second and hardened attacks to try and defeat hodi and it was still not enough while zoro's technique one defeated hyozu in one go. Heck, zoro did not even use his kyutoryu which should be an overwhelmingly powerful nowdays considering that back in the day it was enough to comfortably win against kaku.

 

[HereNThere]

We can't forget that Hodi was popping pills left and right throughout the entire arc even during his final moments, while Hyozou just took a few with some alcohol before his fight with Zoro. So I'm assuming Hodi's body was still on another level than Hyozou's. As for Luffy vs. Hyozou, so what if Hyozou blocked one hit from a Luffy who was in a rush to get Sanji to safety and really didn't have time to waste with them? Zoro fought with Hyozou for a while before he finished his own fight with him. Hell, he even called Hyozou a warm up before he dismissed him later on. We can't really blame the character's for misjudging other character's power levels. Most of us thought Hyozou was badass, but look what happened to him.

OT: I'm pretty sure they would end up tying. I mean if Luffy managed to survive against a pretty serious Mihawk in the war, I'm pretty sure he'll have a decent chance against Zoro. Luffy just has to keep a look out for the blades and Zoro has to be aware of Luffy's speed and haki (which I assume Zoro knows or knows how to defend against.)

 

[zelllogan]

Luffy is the main character & Zoro will never be stronger than him at any moment. Period.
I'm already shocked that such a thread have 15 pages when the answer is so obvious.

Edit: I deleted my other posts because I'm already extremely bored with the discussion & if I really need to explain what I said, then I wasn't understood at all to begin with ... Kkck misunderstood my post & apparently I misunderstood his question ...

 

[kkck]

^What mistake did oda do during the arc? You mentioned "another" mistake so there are 2 of them?

 

[kkck]

He even apologized for it. It was about the dimensions of the island.

And what does that have to do with what I wrote? Did I even mention the dimensions of the island? And that is one mistake, you implied 2 of them.

 

[BlackHair]

BlackHair
1. I'm actually going by Luffy's Zoro's and Sanji's oponents. The same Ennies Lobby Arc, when Luffy took out 5000 soldiers, then took Bruno who was 4th strongest in CP9 and then won against the strongest Lucci who was as strong as Kaku and Jabura together. After that every Arc Luffy always got bigger power up than Zoro or Sanji, so for me it is quite obvious that he was as strong as Zoro and Sanji together. And after timeskip I believe that the difference got even bigger.

Fine lets use Enies Lobby CP9 as comparison, though Kkck already covered for me.

After taking Lucci out, Luffy was not able to move. Yet Zoro and Sanji after their battle were still strong enough to fight alongside the rest of the crew against 200 captains. So we can tell for sure that Luffys was as strong as Lucci, but Zoro and Sanji were stronger than Kaku and Jyabura. So now how can be Luffy as strong as both of them together? since Lucci wasn't according to their dourik stats.

btw I actually think Enies Lobby Luffy is slightly weaker than Lucci, it was only due to Ussops speech that he could beat Lucci. But nvm, lets just put them equal.

2. Yes I do believe that Rayleigh is stronger than Mihawk. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, but we didn't see anything aside from swordsmanship from him, while Rayleigh is also a unarmed fighter and also the best Haki user so far as we saw in manga...

Well you see haki is imo a boost skill. It is not a skill on its own, after all with haki alone you can't beat equals opponents. It works only with a main skill. Thats why there aren't any haki mans (I mean ppl only using haki, nothing else).

We have seen Rayleigh several times using a sword. Also since there is this parallelism between Roger and Luffy, Rayleigh should have to be a swordsman just as Zoro. After all both are their captains first mate. Anyway, every damn hint in the manga screams that Rayleigh is a swordsman. A haki imbued sworsdman is still a sworsdman, just better than a non-haki-swordsman. But sice Mwk is carrying the title strongest swordsman, he has to be stronger. Its rly that simple xD

btw Rayleigh using a kick does not make him to a unarmed fighter. Otherwise he wouldn't have sword.

Of course I agree that there is Monster Trio, but it's not because they are close to each other, but because they are far from others in the crew and also their stregth is inhuman as mentioned at some point by Usopp.

I see. I do understand that the "monster trio" argument can be twisted for both sides. SO I will leave it out

@Zehahaha: To be fair, every fan made vs-discussion is purely based on implications ;p

 

[Zehahaha]

F

@Zehahaha: To be fair, every fan made vs-discussion is purely based on implications ;p

Implications based on hints/facts, and must be rational.
I can say " Shanks lost an arm against a sea monster, therefore he's weak "
Yet we all know that's not true, but it is an implication from a " fact " that happened at the beginning of OP (I found it to be a mistake from Oda's part after he showed the " prestige" that Shanks have as a Yonkou, and the level of the Yonkou too), we know that this argument is utterly false, yet it comes from a fact (debatable one, but nonetheless, a fact)

We have Zoro OS Kaku with his final attack, we have seen Sanji do the same, in Luffy's case, he was able to match Lucci's thanks to Gear Second, and yet, if we are really technical about this matter, it was painfully obvious that Luffy was slightly weaker than Lucci back at the time, if it wasn't for Lucci cockiness, and Usopp's speech then bye bye Luffy. Heck, Lucci's defeat was illogical, the guy seemed to be able to walk, and wanted to kill the others SH's, he probably had enough power to evade Luffy's hits IMO. But, let's just they're equal in the end.

Unlike Luffy vs Crocodile, where it was sheer luck at the 2 confrontations and also, Luffy's intelligence, in the 3rd confrontation, it was pure 1vs1, an endurance test and Luffy won it faire and square.

So to imply that Luffy is stronger than both Zoro and Sanji is too far fetched and really not logical no matter how you look at it.

Same can be said about Mihawk/Rayleigh deal too

 

[SharpKnives]

Well let's see Luffy has better speed, strenght,stamina he knows Haki and all this is amplified by his devil fruit abilty. Yea Zoro has a chance here, he split a ship in half.