Growing Like Fingernails

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I still can't really get it when "strange" is used as a barometer, but perhaps it's the starting point of deciding something being exotic or not.

I don't know how else to explain it. While Portuguese is consider exotic to me, it still wouldn't compare to some unknown native language of some random, tiny Pacific Island for example

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I think you mean subjective? (Wow, I feel like yuki now )

So feeling like me means feeling like a grammar nazi?

 

[Doraku]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I did not know you girls have Chinese blood

Mm, I'm already occupied with textbooks (and *cough* manga *cough) so no thanks.

Yeah, yeah. Take responsibility.

Hey, same here, but I could understand your excuse.

NO.

I think you mean subjective? (Wow, I feel like yuki now )

Yeah, I guess "strange" is a good barometer for considering something exotic or not. Meaning, if it there isn't a sense of familiarity with it at all, it's chances of being seen as exotic are even higher. It sort of goes along with my example of English I guess

Y U TURN INTO A GRAMMAR NATZEH?

So, I'm curious, how many languages do you speak, by the way?

I can only be optimistic if only our people love our country more. Sadly, these days that's not the case.

I had headaches when I read Siti Nurbaya and stuffs.

Blame the media and learning process, I guess. Speaking Bahasa is not something considered as cool among the youth, and the apathy from our fellow Indonesian is justified in some ways.

LOL, that's what makes them interesting .

By the way, I read some Budi Darma's works, the most memorable book by him that I can recall right now is Olenka, because the title is taken from Chekov's story.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

It's been blurry since the beginning.

Mm, I don't listen to many foreign songs anyway, so yeah... Oh, once, listened to a German song when I still learned it. Comment: confusing.

Oh well.

I blame Shikata-san for making me liking foreign languages songs. (I used to like English and Latin songs only) She made me love Italian and Greek songs, and then I just kinda try to listen to other languages, and I've been listening to French, Russian, German, even Irish.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I don't know how else to explain it. While Portuguese is consider exotic to me, it still wouldn't compare to some unknown native language of some random, tiny Pacific Island for example

Totally with you on this one.

So feeling like me means feeling like a grammar nazi?

I did not know you girls have Chinese blood

Oh, yes, we did. Just in blood, though. I don't even have a Chinese name.

Hey, same here, but I could understand your excuse.

NO.

Why thank you.

YES.

Blame the media and learning process, I guess. Speaking Bahasa is not something considered as cool among the youth, and the apathy from our fellow Indonesian is justified in some ways.

As a youth myself isn't it natural? It is at those times that you feel bored with everything you've grown up with for, what, 20 years, and want to try something new. I think it applies not only in language but lots other things as well. Although to start with our care for our own culture is indeed low. XDDDD

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

We do have a kind of basic grammar, but we don't actually use it in daily life. In practice, we defile the grammar as much as we want. That's why there is a great difference between formal Indonesian and informal Indonesian. No one use formal Indonesian except for people who learn Indonesian for the first time.

That's not terribly unique. Different dialects and accents can result in the same sort of thing in English. For example, the African-American community has their own way of speaking at times, that is still considered English, even though it's grammatically a nightmare. But this isn't a racial thing necessarily.

And while it might not be as severe as Bahasa (I have no clue), speaking formally and informally in most languages can result in some languages seeming almost unrecognizable.

Out west you'll even have pidgin languages between Spanish-speaking and English-speaking communities, as well as some Native-American pidgins.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I blame Shikata-san for making me liking foreign languages songs. (I used to like English and Latin songs only) She made me love Italian and Greek songs, and then I just kinda try to listen to other languages, and I've been listening to French, Russian, German, even Irish.

That's nice. She makes me like Italian as well, and the way she incorporates foreign languages in her songs is just awesome.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

...I guess it is. I guess that might be due to the idea of the word being subjective, when the definition isn't. So weird.

Yeah I agree on the song part. And I don't know if it's the silly taboo of hearing angry Germans or not but it probably depends on different German accents as well, which I don't have a ton of knowledge on. It's interesting, because a former staffer here who is for Western Germany did a student exchange in Australia and she now has a very Australian-sounding accent when speaking English, even though she is German. If you're a foreigner, you'll hear American and British English a lot more than Australian, so that sort of short-term influence is fascinating to me. She would know exactly why and how that is, considering she studied linguistics though

And yeah, I guess I associated exotic and beautiful together for some reason...

So exotic is one of those subjective words.

Well, some people can be easily influenced into talking with another accent. I watched British movies in succession for a week, and I speak British accent for a month. Since my default English accent is American, of course after a while, my accent goes back to it.
I have headaches with Australian accent. British is sometimes bad enough, but I often can't understand what Australians are talking about.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

So feeling like me means feeling like a grammar nazi?

I can be that way on my own, I was just poking fun. But no, I've seen you do the same thing to her and I think it's cute and even admirable.

Y U TURN INTO A GRAMMAR NATZEH?

So, I'm curious, how many languages do you speak, by the way?

I know people like to treat me like a punching bag, but some people, and I mean SOME people consider me intelligent and well-spoken

English and Spanish. But they can't be compared really, I would take some time to get my bearings if I was dropped in Madrid and had to fend for myself

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I did not know you girls have Chinese blood

Why? Don't tell me you have Chinese blood too.

Blame the media and learning process, I guess. Speaking Bahasa is not something considered as cool among the youth, and the apathy from our fellow Indonesian is justified in some ways.

LOL, that's what makes them interesting .

By the way, I read some Budi Darma's works, the most memorable book by him that I can recall right now is Olenka, because the title is taken from Chekov's story.

Indeed. Nationalism has started to disappear.



Oh yeah. That's also the only title I can remember of his works, but mostly it's because I have a friend whose nickname is Olen, and when we have Mr. Budi Darma as our lecturer and we started to know him, this poor friend of mine is nicknamed Olenka. I wonder whether Mr. Budi Darma feels weird to have a student with a name similar to his book title in his class.

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

Oh, yes, we did. Just in blood, though. I don't even have a Chinese name.

You don't?

As a youth myself isn't it natural? It is at those times that you feel bored with everything you've grown up with for, what, 20 years, and want to try something new. I think it applies not only in language but lots other things as well. Although to start with our care for our own culture is indeed low. XDDDD

I actually want to learn to play gamelan but the class was only available for our kouhai in high school.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

So exotic is one of those subjective words.

Well, some people can be easily influenced into talking with another accent. I watched British movies in succession for a week, and I speak British accent for a month. Since my default English accent is American, of course after a while, my accent goes back to it.
I have headaches with Australian accent. British is sometimes bad enough, but I often can't understand what Australians are talking about.

It's an interesting conundrum, but I think it has to be considered as one.

Totally, but when I heard her for the first time I was shocked. She was flattered that I thought she sounded Australian, but after a while I could notice a SMALL hint of something that wasn't Australian.

I guess that's where native terms come in as well. I sort of look as Australians as an analogue to Southerners here and I think foreigners would have the same difficulty understanding some of their accents.

 

[Nuno]

Re: What a neverending debt.

The accent influence factor is actually really interesting. During our mod meet in Belgium, I was seriously influenced by goldb's British and to some extent blai's. I started mixing up my default American accent, mostly because it was fun at first, but after a while I did it automatically, speaking a sort of mix. It was really strange and I was surprised no one mentioned it. However I basically reverted right away after they both left. I can speak both no problem, but since American English is more normal here (although we are taught British English in terms of writing.....) I landed there.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

That's not terribly unique. Different dialects and accents can result in the same sort of thing in English. For example, the African-American community has their own way of speaking at times, that is still considered English, even though it's grammatically a nightmare. But this isn't a racial thing necessarily.

And while it might not be as severe as Bahasa (I have no clue), speaking formally and informally in most languages can result in some languages seeming almost unrecognizable.

Out west you'll even have pidgin languages between Spanish-speaking and English-speaking communities, as well as some Native-American pidgins.

The funny thing is that it is hard to find someone who speaks fully Indonesian. We always mix it with the local language.

The thing is that even Indonesian people think that Indonesian has no grammar. It's just that bad. Some foreigners who study Indonesian told me that they are confused in learning Indonesian because we seemingly don't care for subject, predicate and stuffs. Not to mention that they have a hard time to learn Indonesian since every Indonesian people is not talking full Indonesian.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

The accent influence factor is actually really interesting. During our mod meet in Belgium, I was seriously influenced by goldb's British and to some extent blai's. I started mixing up my default American accent, mostly because it was fun at first, but after a while I did it automatically, speaking a sort of mix. It was really strange and I was surprised no one mentioned it. However I basically reverted right away after they both left. I can speak both no problem, but since American English is more normal here (although we are taught British English in terms of writing.....) I landed there.

You took noticed of it though...lulz (Nuno trying to fit in )

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

That's nice. She makes me like Italian as well, and the way she incorporates foreign languages in her songs is just awesome.

Indeed. I'm thankful to her for expanding my horizon in learning language.

 

[Nuno]

Re: What a neverending debt.

You took noticed of it though...lulz (Nuno trying to fit in )

Yeah of course. But I'm exaggerating. It wasn't that bad, but it was noticeable.

I know you are joking, but I wasn't trying to fit in. Most there talked American after all. Anax who talked like crazy too (obviously) has a flawless American accent (which I used to have too... I lost practice).

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I can be that way on my own, I was just poking fun. But no, I've seen you do the same thing to her and I think it's cute and even admirable.

But other people don't think so. :| Every time I try to correct someone's grammar/pronunciation, they always give me either panic expression or eye-roll.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

The funny thing is that it is hard to find someone who speaks fully Indonesian. We always mix it with the local language.

The thing is that even Indonesian people think that Indonesian has no grammar. It's just that bad. Some foreigners who study Indonesian told me that they are confused in learning Indonesian because we seemingly don't care for subject, predicate and stuffs. Not to mention that they have a hard time to learn Indonesian since every Indonesian people is not talking full Indonesian.

Ah, so then it's sort of a pidgin or creole anyways. Interesting. But I think all languages can be like this. English is sort of a hodgepodge anyways.

LOL, so it's even worse than someone who learns a foreign language elsewhere. My grandfather once told me how some of his service-mates who went to Japan were taught Japanese by a younger woman and when they would go out and try to speak with locals they would laugh and make fun of them because they were all burly men from the Navy, but spoke like a Japanese woman

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Totally, but when I heard her for the first time I was shocked. She was flattered that I thought she sounded Australian, but after a while I could notice a SMALL hint of something that wasn't Australian.

I guess that's where native terms come in as well. I sort of look as Australians as an analogue to Southerners here and I think foreigners would have the same difficulty understanding some of their accents.

I am more amazed at people whose accent will never change no matter where they are and how great the influences around them.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Yeah of course. But I'm exaggerating. It wasn't that bad, but it was noticeable.

I know you are joking, but I wasn't trying to fit in. Most there talked American after all. Anax who talked like crazy too (obviously) has a flawless American accent (which I used to have too... I lost practice).

Was I joking? lol

You think Anax doesn't have an accent? I'd say he is one of the more fluent non-English speakers I know, but I still notice an accent.

But other people don't think so. :| Every time I try to correct someone's grammar/pronunciation, they always give me either panic expression or eye-roll.

I guess it depends on the time and place. But since you are her friend and do it for the right reasons, hopefully, then yes it has more worth than just annoyance

I think it would be different if you were both native English speakers and insisted on correcting her English.

Panic expression?

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------

I am more amazed at people whose accent will never change no matter where they are and how great the influences around them.

Those exist too. It's odd. I still think if there are enough years there can be at least some notable difference though.