Year Round The Football/Soccer Thread v2

[xi0]

Silly noobs, shush. At least we won a CL title lately and your teams haven't. :P

What it comes down to is that in our matches versus Barca in the last several years, there has been some very, very, very, very, very questionable refereeing. In the early 2000s, we had some great matches against Barca, but the 08/09 SF was marred by so much poor refereeing that it wasn't funny. We got our revenge for that match last season, but it still doesn't matter. I hate Barca and I always will. Messi's a great player, but it doesn't change my opinion about Barca.

You got your revenge last year and won it all, but it still doesn't matter?

And your opinion is what? I can understand the type of opinions people may have of teams that are the "darlings" and what not. But it can't really take away from a team...unless its Man U of course

 

[kakashi919]

Silly noobs, shush. At least we won a CL title lately and your teams haven't. :P

Yeah and now you can win Europa League ! Back to back European championa!!

 

[FrostyMouse]

No no... because Barca has a playing style and Chelsea doesn't

Anyway, once we regain a real striker for next season and shore up our CM area, we'll go back to being a defensive minded 4-2-3-1 side (especially if Jose comes back), but with a heavy emphasis on counterattacking and going forward as necessary. I don't think we'll ever see the 09/10 style that we played under Carlo Ancelotti again.

 

[xi0]

And the whole thing about teams getting calls - there's usually a reason that goes on. It's because the teams are consistently good. So it becomes an odd situation where you're blaming a team for being TOO good and forgetting about the referees themselves, at times. Except in extraordinary cases of course.

 

[FrostyMouse]

You got your revenge last year and won it all, but it still doesn't matter?

And your opinion is what? I can understand the type of opinions people may have of teams that are the "darlings" and what not. But it can't really take away from a team...unless its Man U of course

No, because we were still wronged. Of course it assuages some of the anger, but if not for some great counterattacking play, we still would've lost last season. Fabregas dove for a penalty, the ref bought it, and then Messi bricked it off the crossbar. If not for Messi being the goat, we would've lost.

The fact that Barca has gotten some very preferential refereeing at times makes me dislike them.

Yeah and now you can win Europa League ! Back to back European championa!!

I actually wanted us to lose on purpose like City and United did last season in order to go out immediately and focus on the league.

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

And the whole thing about teams getting calls - there's usually a reason that goes on. It's because the teams are consistently good. So it becomes an odd situation where you're blaming a team for being TOO good and forgetting about the referees themselves, at times. Except in extraordinary cases of course.

We were the best defensive side in the world in 08/09, so it's not as if we weren't good. It's just that Tom Henning Ovrebo denied us four penalties (although he did rightfully send off Abidal for two egregious yellow card offenses) and then right at the end of extra time, Iniesta hit a magical ball that left Cech unsighted and it went in.

We have never allowed Messi to score against us in eight matches, so that has to say something for our players, Gary.

 

[xi0]

Good teams get the calls. That's one constant in team sports. You don't see people complaining about Wigan getting all of the calls

And the diving thing...the only analogous thing I can think of is the old adage in American Football - that there's holding on every play. It's when it's called that makes it inconvenient. Most players dive, it's just a fact of life I guess.

 

[kakashi919]

Well, Messi never scored from open play against an Italian side until they raped Milan the other night. Probably bad luck and not your players

 

[FrostyMouse]

Well, Messi never scored from open play against an Italian side until they raped Milan the other night. Probably bad luck and not your players

Yeah, I know.

You'll do anything to take credit away from Chelsea, won't you?

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

Good teams get the calls. That's one constant in team sports. You don't see people complaining about Wigan getting all of the calls

And the diving thing...the only analogous thing I can think of is the old adage in American Football - that there's holding on every play. It's when it's called that makes it inconvenient. Most players dive, it's just a fact of life I guess.

Wigan has gotten screwed over a bunch of times with some calls.

Yeah, there is holding on every play, but some is more egregious than others. Yes, most players do dive, but the ref buying it for penalties is when there's a problem.

 

[kakashi919]

Yeah, I know.

You'll do anything to take credit away from Chelsea, won't you?

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------



Wigan has gotten screwed over a bunch of times with some calls.

Yeah, there is holding on every play, but some is more egregious than others. Yes, most players do dive, but the ref buying it for penalties is when there's a problem.

I just like making fun of Chelsea fans that's all

 

[xi0]

And how many times has Messi played against Chelsea? That's why I sort of smirk when you say Messi isn't effective against the top sides Sure, he isn't scoring hat-tricks against the top sides with regularity, but come on

 

[FrostyMouse]

And how many times has Messi played against Chelsea? That's why I sort of smirk when you say Messi isn't effective against the top sides Sure, he isn't scoring hat-tricks against the top sides with regularity, but come on

I never once said Messi isn't effective against the top sides. I said that Bale looks great against bad/mediocre teams, but is generally ineffective against the top sides.

Messi's the best player in the world, Gary, so I don't know where you're getting that perception of what I said about Mesi.

Messi's played against Chelsea in four CL ties, so eight matches.

 

[xi0]

Wigan has gotten screwed over a bunch of times with some calls.

Yeah, there is holding on every play, but some is more egregious than others. Yes, most players do dive, but the ref buying it for penalties is when there's a problem.

And why do you think that is? It's sort of the awful truth, but it comes with not being any good.

It's a problem until someone's penalized for doing it. But it doesn't happen enough and that's because it's actually quite hard to catch someone. They're not robots. I don't envy refs at all. My uncle has ref'd soccer matches on all different levels for years, it's not an easy job.

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

I never once said Messi isn't effective against the top sides. I said that Bale looks great against bad/mediocre teams, but is generally ineffective against the top sides.

Messi's the best player in the world, Gary, so I don't know where you're getting that perception of what I said about Mesi.

Messi's played against Chelsea in four CL ties, so eight matches.

Maybe it wasn't Messi then. But I seem to remember you liking to point out when he disappears in a match.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that he won't remain scoreless against them forever.

 

[FrostyMouse]

And why do you think that is? It's sort of the awful truth, but it comes with not being any good.

It's a problem until someone's penalized for doing it. But it doesn't happen enough and that's because it's actually quite hard to catch someone. They're not robots. I don't envy refs at all. My uncle has ref'd soccer matches on all different levels for years, it's not an easy job.

I'm not going to deny that refs often don't give you calls when you're a bad team.

Well, the Premier League is really the only league in the world that penalizes people for diving. The CL seems to operate more like La Liga in terms of calls at times.

Maybe it wasn't Messi then. But I seem to remember you liking to point out when he disappears in a match.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that he won't remain scoreless against them forever.

Oh, I do, because Messi disappearing in matches means that Barca usually loses. Messi has scored in a record 17 or 18 conseuctive La Liga matches.

Perhaps not, but for right now, he is. He even missed from the penalty spot against us in the last match, but usually, we restrict him from even taking a shot. In the 08/09 SF, we were the better team and we actually completely shut Messi down.

 

[Mr. Prince]

Yessssss I love how everyone is writting off Juve

Who exactly is writing the Old Lady off? Just because the majority, including the bookies (who favor Bayern topping Juve in the QF's with roughly 60-40) and Turin's own manager, sees Bayern slightly ahead here [under normal circumstances, that is], does not exactly qualify as "writing them off".

And I don't see anything wrong with that estimation either. One should not make the mistake and rate Bayern by their sloppy and horrible performance in the return leg against the Gunners. All one needs to do is think back a few more days and remember those ~30 minutes at the Emirates where the team showed what they're capable of when the situation demands it.
This is, after all, still a side that's been playing a record-breaking season in the Bundesliga thus far and is 20 points(!) ahead of Dortmund in the championship.

It's funny how a single match can turn around the mood almost completely. Just like how Barca was pretty much clinically dead and in decline to some until they sent that poor-spirited, chicken-hearted Milan side home from Camp Nou with 4-0, Bayern now seems to have lost a great amount of respect due to Wednesday's loss.

But only time will tell. I'm just really looking forward to this match-up which is (on paper) by far the most exciting game in the QF's!

 

[kakashi919]

Who exactly is writing the Old Lady off? Just because the majority, including the bookies (who favor Bayern topping Juve in the QF's with roughly 60-40) and Turin's own manager, sees Bayern slightly ahead here [under normal circumstances, that is], does not exactly qualify as "writing them off".

And I don't see anything wrong with that estimation either. One should not make the mistake and rate Bayern by their sloppy and horrible performance in the return leg against the Gunners. All one needs to do is think back a few more days and remember those ~30 minutes at the Emirates where the team showed what they're capable of when the situation demands it.
This is, after all, still a side that's been playing a record-breaking season in the Bundesliga thus far and is 20 points(!) ahead of Dortmund in the championship.

It's funny how a single match can turn around the mood almost completely. Just like how Barca was pretty much clinically dead and in decline to some until they sent that poor-spirited, chicken-hearted Milan side home from Camp Nou with 4-0, Bayern now seems to have lost a great amount of respect due to Wednesday's loss.

But only time will tell. I'm just really looking forward to this match-up which is (on paper) by far the most exciting game in the QF's!

Didnt say anything was wrong with the estimation though ... I myself wanted to avoid Bayern until the final because to me they are the most dangerous team there. I would much rather play any other team besides them. I was just saying it will be all the more sweeter when Juve beat them, as so many ppl has written the Old Lady off. The Arsenal loss was a bit surprising, but not so much when you consider that Arsenal always play much better in the second leg when they need goals.

So let everyone write us off...let them mock us all they want saying that we paid the refs when we win. The victory will be all the more sweeter

 

[FrostyMouse]

Didnt say anything was wrong with the estimation though ... I myself wanted to avoid Bayern until the final because to me they are the most dangerous team there. I would much rather play any other team besides them. I was just saying it will be all the more sweeter when Juve beat them, as so many ppl has written the Old Lady off. The Arsenal loss was a bit surprising, but not so much when you consider that Arsenal always play much better in the second leg when they need goals.

So let everyone write us off...let them mock us all they want saying that we paid the refs when we win. The victory will be all the more sweeter

So you'd rather play Barca or Madrid than Bayern? Well, I can see why you'd rather play Barca, as it's much easier to counterattack against them than against Bayern. I think that in some ways, Madrid's more dangerous than Bayern as Madrid have Ronaldo and Bayern, while they have great players, don't have a true superstar.

You actually did pay off the refs though, but that was in the past.

 

[kakashi919]

So you'd rather play Barca or Madrid than Bayern? Well, I can see why you'd rather play Barca, as it's much easier to counterattack against them than against Bayern. I think that in some ways, Madrid's more dangerous than Bayern as Madrid have Ronaldo and Bayern, while they have great players, don't have a true superstar.

You actually did pay off the refs though, but that was in the past.

Ronaldo can be contained. And I don't see any of their other players as a threat. Barca, while they are probably gonna be unstoppable now, I would rather face them to prove that Juve are back.

Do you have hard evidence that we did?

 

[FrostyMouse]

Ronaldo can be contained. And I don't see any of their other players as a threat. Barca, while they are probably gonna be unstoppable now, I would rather face them to prove that Juve are back.

Do you have hard evidence that we did?

Ronaldo usually isn't containable though. Messi's more easily contained than Ronaldo, in my opinion, the only difference being that if you contain Messi, there are other players on Barca that can hurt you, whereas that's not always the case for Madrid.

No, I don't, only that the governing body was convinced enough of corruption that Juve (as well as other clubs) was forced to forfeit titles and was forcibly relegated.

 

[kakashi919]

Ronaldo usually isn't containable though. Messi's more easily contained than Ronaldo, in my opinion, the only difference being that if you contain Messi, there are other players on Barca that can hurt you, whereas that's not always the case for Madrid.

No, I don't, only that the governing body was convinced enough of corruption that Juve (as well as other clubs) was forced to forfeit titles and was forcibly relegated.

A corrupt governing body in a country where you are guilty until proven otherwise. Not saying they are definitely innocent, but until I know for a fact they pay off refs, I will still support them 100% -.- And well, as you said, we paid for said crimes(justified or not) and were stripped of titles and relegated... now we are back stronger than before

 

[FrostyMouse]

A corrupt governing body in a country where you are guilty until proven otherwise. Not saying they are definitely innocent, but until I know for a fact they pay off refs, I will still support them 100% -.- And well, as you said, we paid for said crimes(justified or not) and were stripped of titles and relegated... now we are back stronger than before

There's no denying that Italian football is so corrupt it's not funny. We'll probably never know. At times, even if you weren't involved, but you were approached, you can get banned as player.

The point is that we're past that and Juve's reinvigorated themselves. You more than paid for whatever you may have gained through corruption.