Character Will Yukimura leave??

[Ninomiya]

It also doesn't matter that Niou can answer 5th counter. Fuji beats Niou in a normal rally very consistently at the end of Tezuka illusion. That's why he switch to Shiraishi. Niou will only win game by ZSS. But in a 3 set match, him winning is kind of iffy.

Why?
Did you fail to see how long Niou used ZSS + TPhantom in his recent match?
Its extremely close between Fuji and Niou.
Fuji has no opportunity to hit 6thCounter if Niou hits 5thCounter back perfectly.

 

[-Ken-]

Why?
Did you fail to see how long Niou used ZSS + TPhantom in his recent match?
Its extremely close between Fuji and Niou.
Fuji has no opportunity to hit 6thCounter if Niou hits 5thCounter back perfectly.

He doesn't need 6th counter? Why would he need it? He dominate Tezuka Niou. That's why Niou changed form.

ZSS is the only way Niou will win any points. Fuji already seal all of other Tezuka tech. Look at the match. He can't hit 6th counter against Tezuka Niou. But he doesn't need to. ZSS will win Niou points until Niou arm break and it's Fuji match from there forth. Niou Tezuka have not shown ability to win a single point against closed eyes Fuji. Tezuka Phantom is a trick at best with 4th counter.

From

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c362/15.html

to

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c363/12.html

It's a several games. And Niou fail to show that he can win in even a single rally. If Tezuka can win in normal rally, is there a point to dropping it? Nope. It's close on the first match. Probably 7-6 with one side winning. I can't really tell who. Then Fuji wins second 6-0 because of the arm. And if Niou win first set, it's also 6-0 in the 3rd match.

Tezuka Niou have not shown the ability to beat the current Fuji in a normal rally at all. Counter are all just fancy tricks at best. Closed Eyes Fuji closed Tezuka Niou in the national. Of course, it's different now that Niou can use ZSS. But ZSS have some serious drawback.

 

[Phantron]

Niou doesn't need anything beyond Hyakuren to deal with Fuji if he doesn't use Closed Eye. It's a pretty one sided beatdown (5-1) after Niou turned into Tezuka but before Fuji used Closed Eye. Given Niou has limited mastery of his illusion at that point I'd assume he only used Tezuka Phantom once because attempting to use it more than once would be too dangerous. I do not think Fuji's 4th counter can deal with it because when Niou used Tezuka Phantom it's obviously supposed to impress the audience, but what would be impressive if he only scored point because Fuji mysteriously forgot to use the 4th counter, which is a completely safe defensive move?

Improved Niou can just use Tezuka Phantom to deal with Closed Eye, though I think it's possible improved Niou can simply beat it with his improved illusion stats. In the U17 camp Tezuka says Fuji is 'not yet able to see the truth' when he says he can beat Tezuka now (this scene is added in the volumes only) after the Fuji brothers match. Sure it's just all talk, but it shows Tezuka does not believe Fuji can beat him even prior to getting TnK, so if improved Niou is arbitarily close to Tezuka the same should apply there too.

 

[ashore]

if niou can copy multiple character abilities at the same time..... DOOOM to fuji. ATOBE KINGDOM suckah?

Edit: hmm why did I even post this? did the thread title change?

 

[Philia]

I agree with everything else and this too.
It wasn't an official match, so I don't think we can assume Ryoma did everything he could, they were probably just trying to out-rally each other.
With maybe a few special shots but no aura's I don't think.

Have we ever seen Koshimae holding back? Sorry, but just like Sanada, Koshimae doesn't know how to hold back either.
(It wasn't an official match, so I don't think we can assume Ryoma did everything he could, they were probably just trying to out-rally each other.)
Really? Koshimae played a one point unofficial match with Kintarou, which he didn't intend to play. Was he holding back? So, why he will hold back when he cant defeat Kazuya?

 

[-Ken-]

Have we ever seen Koshimae holding back? Sorry, but just like Sanada, Koshimae doesn't know how to hold back either.
(It wasn't an official match, so I don't think we can assume Ryoma did everything he could, they were probably just trying to out-rally each other.)
Really? Koshimae played a one point unofficial match with Kintarou, which he didn't intend to play. Was he holding back? So, why he will hold back when he cant defeat Kazuya?

Any proof that Tokugawa doesn't just crush PoP Ryoma?

It's a PoP players without 10 ball. Tokugawa is practice rallying with Oni, probably the 3rd strongest player in the series right now after Byoudonin and Ryoga, and could even be 1st and 2nd. His goal is to beat number 1. Tokugawa is also mention in the pair puri to be exceptional even amongst 1st court. Tokugawa go up to 11 balls. It looks to me like Tokugawa just triumph Ryoma with PoP.

Yeah, there's some Echizen hater that just say "I don't think Echizen can use PoP at will". But at this point in the series, where 5 people (Nanjiroh, Ryoma, Tezuka, Kintarou, Oni) have shown to use it, I don't see any real reason to assume that Echizen can't use his at will at all.

 

[Ninomiya]

Have we ever seen Koshimae holding back? Sorry, but just like Sanada, Koshimae doesn't know how to hold back either.
(It wasn't an official match, so I don't think we can assume Ryoma did everything he could, they were probably just trying to out-rally each other.)
Really? Koshimae played a one point unofficial match with Kintarou, which he didn't intend to play. Was he holding back? So, why he will hold back when he cant defeat Kazuya?

I'm sorry but Ryoma holds back all the time, and he is NOT like Sanada lol.

Against Matsudaira Chikao, he was playing around.
He played with his right-hand for a long time against Kirihara Akaya, Ryoma switched from right-hand to left hand against Tanishi Kei,
He went up against Atobe refusing to use Muga from the start,
There are many examples I can bring up where Ryoma is a cheeky brat who holds back for fun.

Your example for his match against Tooyama can't really count because Konomi has Fuji mention how they must feel that they are destined rivals where both refuse to lose to the other. Tokugawa and Ryoma aren't "destined rivals" like Tooyama and Echizen at all.

I don't think there is any evidence or implication that Ryoma went and brought out Saiki, Hyakku Ren, PoP or even Standard Muga against Tokugawa.
They were just out-rallying each other and of course, Ryoma and Kintaro were completely out-rallied.

 

[Hardy]

He went up against Atobe refusing to use Muga from the start,

Had he used Muga from the start, he would had lost the match imo.

But yeah, I agree, he's a confident brat

 

[LetalHawk]

Any proof that Tokugawa doesn't just crush PoP Ryoma?

It's a PoP players without 10 ball. Tokugawa is practice rallying with Oni, probably the 3rd strongest player in the series right now after Byoudonin and Ryoga, and could even be 1st and 2nd. His goal is to beat number 1. Tokugawa is also mention in the pair puri to be exceptional even amongst 1st court. Tokugawa go up to 11 balls. It looks to me like Tokugawa just triumph Ryoma with PoP.


Yeah, there's some Echizen hater that just say "I don't think Echizen can use PoP at will". But at this point in the series, where 5 people (Nanjiroh, Ryoma, Tezuka, Kintarou, Oni) have shown to use it, I don't see any real reason to assume that Echizen can't use his at will at all.

If Ryoma usted PoP, and lost, he won't have been on the floor exhausted, even if he lost he'd be happy about it. PoP remains until they stop playing, Ryoma was just going with his base stats.

 

[-Ken-]

If Ryoma usted PoP, and lost, he won't have been on the floor exhausted, even if he lost he'd be happy about it. PoP remains until they stop playing, Ryoma was just going with his base stats.

Well, he look pretty happy about it. Even though he lost.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v02/c015/16.html

And well, who says you can't use PoP and be on the floor exhausted?

 

[LetalHawk]

Well, he look pretty happy about it. Even though he lost.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v02/c015/16.html

And well, who says you can't use PoP and be on the floor exhausted?

You can lose with TnK but maybe you don't sense the exhaustion until TnK is no longer active maybe?

 

[Philia]

Yukimura & Tezuka are among top 5 MSers.( I would have said top 4, but now Kintarou has Tnk & Sanada has black aura. Im expecting Black Aura to rival TnK, So, I cant say Tezuka & Yuki in top 3 for sure.) Tezuka already left. Now Yuki is going to leave as well. Althougn Niou is replacing Tezuka, there is no one to replace Yuki. AHHH......SO SAD.

 

[LetalHawk]

Yukimura & Tezuka are among top 5 MSers.( I would have said top 4, but now Kintarou has Tnk & Sanada has black aura. Im expecting Black Aura to rival TnK, So, I cant say Tezuka & Yuki in top 3 for sure.) Tezuka already left. Now Yuki is going to leave as well. Althougn Niou is replacing Tezuka, there is no one to replace Yuki. AHHH......SO SAD.

Don't forget Echizen

 

[-Ken-]

Don't forget Echizen

I'm current ranking the MS like this.

1. Echizen/Kintarou (10 ball+PoP, they are also pretty shown to be even with one another in term of basic ability)
3. Tezuka (PoP)
4. Sanada (BA)
5.Yukimura (Yips)

And while Niou get stronger, no, he doesn't beat Yukimura. Maybe if he can use Saiki+Hyakuren at the same time, he could beat National! Yukimura, but that's it.

 

[Phantron]

Niou is easily stronger than anyone without PoP equivlaent powers if he just pays more attention to who he should copy (assuming he cannot copy PoP or equivalent powers, so no Kishin aura either). He'd be able to beat Yukimura easily by copying Irie, as Irie's abilities/stats pretty much counters Yukimura's playstyle completely.

 

[-Ken-]

Niou is easily stronger than anyone without PoP equivlaent powers if he just pays more attention to who he should copy (assuming he cannot copy PoP or equivalent powers, so no Kishin aura either). He'd be able to beat Yukimura easily by copying Irie, as Irie's abilities/stats pretty much counters Yukimura's playstyle completely.

Niou's illusion is limited by his own power. Even during his G10 match, he still doesn't show the ability to use Saiki&Hyakuren at the same time, although he clearly know how to use both individually. I don't think Niou can copy Irie.

 

[Phantron]

Niou's illusion is limited by his own power. Even during his G10 match, he still doesn't show the ability to use Saiki&Hyakuren at the same time, although he clearly know how to use both individually. I don't think Niou can copy Irie.

Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT when Yukimura is obviously the strongeste baseline player, so copying Irie doesn't seem out of reach. We're not talking about copying Byodouin or Oni here.

Now of course Niou is still limited by his own skills but Irie's skill set is just a total counter for Yukimura. Yukimura does not appear to have any way to deal with WoI (he shouldn't be able to achieve 'no flaws' like Irie did). Yukimura's techniques are clearly mental-based and Irie is by far the best guy at mental game in the series so far, not counting the TnK level guys who seem flat out immune and Niou can't copy TnK anyway (yet). So even if Niou's illusion suffers from some penalty compared to real thing, copying Irie is still a better bet than anyone else.

 

[-Ken-]

Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT when Yukimura is obviously the strongeste baseline player, so copying Irie doesn't seem out of reach. We're not talking about copying Byodouin or Oni here.

Now of course Niou is still limited by his own skills but Irie's skill set is just a total counter for Yukimura. Yukimura does not appear to have any way to deal with WoI (he shouldn't be able to achieve 'no flaws' like Irie did). Yukimura's techniques are clearly mental-based and Irie is by far the best guy at mental game in the series so far, not counting the TnK level guys who seem flat out immune and Niou can't copy TnK anyway (yet). So even if Niou's illusion suffers from some penalty compared to real thing, copying Irie is still a better bet than anyone else.

I don't think that's the case. His base stat is alter to be as close to the real thing as possible. I just don't believe Niou have enough base skill to pretend to be Irie.

 

[Philia]

I don't think that's the case. His base stat is alter to be as close to the real thing as possible. I just don't believe Niou have enough base skill to pretend to be Irie.

Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.

 

[Hardy]

Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.

How the hell he copied Kabaji's strength then?