Question I have two questions about Nen/Ren

ssunlimited

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First question is that can Nen and Ren be developed indefinitely over one's lifetime? Can it be improved? My answer (opinion) to this question is yes. Just like muscles can always get stronger so can Nen and Ren. Ren is when you power up your Nen and use it all at once. My second question is about Enhancers and Nen/Ren. My question basically is do Enhancers have stronger Nen and Ren than other types? Let's say two twin siblings were born. They both have the same talents and abilities and genetic make up but different Nen types. One is an Enhancer and the other is a Manipulator. They both develop their Nen/Ren the same. Does this mean that the Enhancer will have nearly twice as high Nen/Ren energy than the Manipulator? I think the answer to this is yes because Nen/Ren is your offense, defense and healing which Enhancers have more of. In hand-to-hand combat the higher Ren wins and so Enhancers have the advantage. But others have tricks and special abilities even if their hand-to-hand abilities aren't so good. The Enhancer should try to get close and fight while others should use their tricks and abilities to take advantage. Or will their Nen/Ren aura energy be the same but when it comes to attacking,defending and healing the Enhancer will be twice as better at it?
 
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KingOfNight

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First off, Ren is one of the four main principles of Nen. So most of what you said in your post is somewhat incorrect.

Now, Wing confirmed that Ren can be improved, so that's one question.

Do Enhancers have a stronger Ren than other groups ? No. It depends on their training and how far they are in using Nen. Ren isn't your offense, it's you unleashing your Aura in it's strongest form.

If you want to know more, read here.
 

ssunlimited

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Ok. Thank you for your answer. So Ren is unleashing aura. So then you turn Ren into your offense and defense it seems and Enhancers are best at that, right?
 

BurnSchulz

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Ok. Thank you for your answer. So Ren is unleashing aura. So then you turn Ren into your offense and defense it seems and Enhancers are best at that, right?
I can recommend you to read Hunter X Hunter from chapter 46 onwards. There ou will find all the informations you want. :)
 

ssunlimited

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I can recommend you to read Hunter X Hunter from chapter 46 onwards. There ou will find all the informations you want. :)
The manga has more information than the anime? I watched the whole 1999 version several times.
 

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Aura power peaks around whatever is considered prime for HXH characters (Zeno, for example, is definitely past his prime) and then it declines, so no it absolutely cannot be developed over your life time because old age more than cancels out any improvement you can do. Netero flat out said he is only about 50% at his current age compared to his prime. This is not a series where the older you are the more powerful you are. Netero in his prime would absolutely wipe the floor with the current version of himself and it won't even be close. Maybe the younger version would have slightly less experienced but it doesn't matter when you have double the aura output compared to his older self.

When people like Wing talking about taking an entire lifetime to develop your abilities, he's talking about the normal folks who probably would need ten years just to learn how to project a small shock via aura, as opposed to one month like Killua. These guys might be able to learn throughout their life but that's only because they improve slowly. For the talented people like Netero or Killua, they clearly will learn everything they can ever learn by the time their hit their prime (looks like 20-50 in HXH terms) and then they'll only go downhill from there because their body atrophies from old age.
 

ssunlimited

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I just don't understand this. Ren is where you output all your aura. I thought outputting aura strangthens your offense and defense and so it enhances you. But it seems you need to turn your Ren into your body to enhance yourself like an Enhancer.
 

KingOfNight

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ssunlimited

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Defense too. But how does that working for enhancing yourself? The thing is, I'm making a game and I need to know how it works. Should I make a person do Ren then enhance yourself? Or just do Ren?
 
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KingOfNight

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Using Ren should automatically enhance their power and durability, because a huge amount of Aura is surrounding their body. If you're talking about enhancing particular parts then Gyo is meant to do that. Gyo focuses more Aura than usual into whatever part of the body you desire, making that part much more powerful but leaves the rest of the body unguarded. Ryu is also a better use of Gyo. You can read about it in the wiki link up there.
 

BurnSchulz

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Defense too. But how does that working for enhancing yourself? The thing is, I'm making a game and I need to know how it works. Should I make a person do Ren then enhance yourself? Or just do Ren?
For defense you use "Ken"
The other (better) thing you can do for Defense is "Kou" but Kou can also (mainly) be used as Offense. It focuses your aura.

For this i can reccomend you to read 141 and onwards.

All you're talking about is basics. Every Nen user knows the basics and can be very good at them.
But especially when it comes to the Special Techinque (Hatsu) every type has its pros and cons.
Use Kastro as an example (Chapter 51 and onwards) He was a Reinforcer, but he uses a Technique wich is mainly based on manipulating and conjuring.
So he had a big disadvantage against Hisoka.
 

ssunlimited

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I just thought that Ren automatically enhances you so the Enhancer has stronger Ren than other types. Gyo is Ren focused on a body part more than other parts. Ryu is adjusting Ren around body parts, it is Gyo in certain parts and less Gyo in other parts. So I'm confused where enhancing comes, I thought it came automatically when you used Ren.
 

Phantron

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The amount you can strengthen yourself is modified by how close you're to the Reinforcement school, though this concept is rarely enforced simply because otherwise a Reinforcement user can pretty much just punch anyone who is more than 2 schools away to death and that'd be extremely lame.

By the way, although Togashi tried to make Kastro look like an example of someone picked poorly, if he was actually trying to kill Hisoka, Hisoka would've already died because if you can chop an arm off someone who was caught off guard you can say snap his neck too. Kastro's problem was that he picked an ability that basically has to do a one-hit kill except he has no intention of actually killing Hisoka (he's only interested in beating him).

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

Honestly HXH's fighting system is extremely broken especially if you apply the fact that HXH's characters are supposed to be relatively intelligent. In such a world, any fight against an Emission user would look like a character that cannot throw fireball versus a Ryu type character where you just get pinned in a corner by Hadokens, because that'd be the optimal strategy for an Emission user (and the Emission user would probably be walking backwards while throwing his aura blasts). Any Reinforcement user would simply punch his opponent to death and anyone who is more than 2 schools away from Reinforcement doesn't even have a chance of winning if both have the same base stats. In fact, if you're not Emission, Reinforcement, or Transformation you should just jump off a cliff as soon as the fight starts and save the embarssment. You'd also start every fight wearing an oxygen tank and start throwing poison gas grenades and in general things would be incredibly stupid if people were actually fighting like they're supposed to.

So in the end in HXH characters miraculously all have almost the same total strength (physical + aura) so that Reinforcement user can't just do the equivalent of 'chipping damage' in a fighting game. That is, by definition if you're not a Reinforcement user you got to take some damage even if he does a totally safe attack and if he is patient enough it'll eventually be enough to whittle your health down to 0, and you have absolutely no way to counter it unless you just immediately go all-in with your special ability, but since the Reinforcement user is using an ultra-safe move to attack your special ability almost certainly won't work. Note that this is actually how Ubogin fights. He kept his power at below 50% versus Kurapika so that he has enough in reserve to react to any special abilities, and if not for the fact that Kurapika's special ability is Emperor Time, it'd have worked just fine, as there's no way a Materialization user could possibly block 50% of Ubogin's power without taking damage, so he can just slowly wear his opponent down.
 

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But thats how it works. No other type of Nen user can, if Same Nen Level and Same Physical Strengh, Block a Punch from Reinforcement Type, without getting heavy damage.
But if an other type of nen user has double the ammount of Nen, he will overcome the reinforcement type.
Most of the Calculation examples are based on the same Nen level and Body Strengh.

Even though Kurapika as Special Type with Scarlet eyes mode, had his arm broken after Uborgin hit him with 100% because Uborgin has higher body strengh and Nen level. Kurapika even pushed his Nen beyond imagination with his Rule that he only uses his main ability (the nen draining chain) against the Phantom Brigade.

That was well explained in the yorkshin arc. If your Nen is not high enough you can literally multiply the effect by setting Rules and conditions for your ability.
 

ssunlimited

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Yes looks like Kurapika had these things:

1) Emperor Time causing 100% Enhancement
2) Rules to strengthen Nen
3) High Nen aura level
4) Talent

But he doesn't look like a strong physical type.
 
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kkck

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I have asked the same question before.... is enhancement the use of basic nen techniques or something that works independently from them and strengthens them? For me it has always been confusing because the manga has generally been ambiguous on the subject.

I mean, take gon's rock and uvo's punch. They are the exact same thing at large and their techniques are simple uses of ko which basically everyone can learn. Gon does have a boost to his ko due to it being his hatsu and all (knuckle explained that because of gon's determination and whatnot gon got extra nen for rock during their fight). Perhaps this is evidence that reinforcement does not work independently from basic nen techniques and reinforcement in fact is specialized application of such techniques which most don't use. Then again ren or even ken were never actually called reinforcement per say, they simply were called basic techniques. More so, we saw killua and gon training at the same time and they progressed through ren and ken at the same rate even though their affinities would suggest gon should have had a significant edge. Perhaps reinforcement starts applying so to speak after a certain amount of nen has been applied or something. Ren or ken being simply violent releases of aura don't apply to enhancement because they are not really focusing nen anywhere. On the other hand once you get to ko which is a concentration of all the nen into a single spot or perhaps enhancing objects with aura you need to start talking about how efficient you are at it. So basically ren, ken, shu, gyo and ryu are basic techniques which anyone can use at the same efficiency but in turn more specialized techniques which require a greater concentration of nen are considered enhancement. Just my take on this.
 

ssunlimited

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kkck- I think you are right on this. Ren/Ken are just releasing the Nen energy but using it on your body or an object is enhancement. You must use Ren/Ken and Gyo/Ryu on your body and that is reflected how well you can use those to enhance yourself.
 

mousiehamster

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My understanding is that reinforcement users simply have (typically) more nen available than users of other schools. So they have inherently greater reserves as well as greater moment-to-moment output. Improvement as a reinforcement user probably takes the form of an increase in output/reserves, and i'm guessing even the increase is easier to attain the users of other nen schools.

This does generally mean that their Ten, Ren, Gyo, Kou and Ken are pretty strong. Furthermore, Uvo described "zetsu" as a reinforcement technique as well, so these guys are also (counter-intuitively) good at hiding their presence as well.

There are also "reinforcement hatsus" such as healing - something reinforcement users naturally have an affinity for.
 

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Every Nen user can use their Nen to make their bodies (or an object) stronger. Actually they have to, unless they never fight at all. Enhancers are simply better at doing that. For example (assuming Gon and Killua are equally talented and knowing they spent the same time training), Killua can Enhance is body but not as well as Gon.
Enhancers don't have any more aura than others, they're just naturally better at using it to Enhance objects, which means other Nen users need to use more aura than them to have the same power.
 

ssunlimited

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So from this I learned that you need to first power up like in Ren then use Ken/Ryu/Gyo/Ren on your body or object. I just used to get confused if Ko is Gyo on a fist or something and Zetsu on the rest that its already enhancement when you just use the basics. You know what? This still confuses me! I think its like this:

Ren- Power up yourself and release all your aura
Ken- Use Ren all over your body to boost offense and defense all over but its not focused or strong
Gyo- Power up a certain body part more than another or all others
Ryu- Adjust Gyo by increasing/decreasing Nen on your body

But I'm still confused. Ko requires to use Zetsu on other parts but why is that needed if Ren alone is not on your body? Just use Ren on one part of your body so the other has Ten.

So maybe enhancers just have stronger Nen and when they use their Ren their whole body is stronger because their Ren is stronger?

So the questions left are truly: Do enhancers have stronger Nen than other types or only stronger enhancement abilities? If its the latter then you need to use Nen on your body after you power up.

So I think when you use Nen it is stronger than other Nen types but it also depends on your talent and other things. If two people had the same talent and other things but different Nen types, when used Ren, which is already on the body I think, the Enhancer is much stronger.
 
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