Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[Der Namenlose]

Re: One Piece 719 Discussion/ 720 Predictions

What evidence do we have to say they are equal? We know that their levels are not far away, but to say he is on Luffy's level is a very long stretch. As far as we know, Zoro should be, at the end of the manga, something close to Luffy's Rayleigh. It's a great feat, but no one in the manga has ever said that Rayleigh was just as great as Roger himself.

 

[Schabrak]

OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

Spoiler

Sorry, but I didn't conclude that at all, which means the bolded passage in your comment is a very strange straw man argument. What I said is that The Dark King -- i.e., Rayleigh, not Luffy -- may be just as strong as Mihawk. Although we can't know that for sure, it's certainly a possibility, and it's what I said it was.

As for Zoro being just as strong as Luffy, I'm sorry to say that I don't believe in it, nor have I any reason to do so. Although Luffy defeated Lucci with the determination he gained from his friends, he was still fighting with him on almost equal grounds, even though -- as I myself conceded -- Lucci probably had a slight advantage. Even though Zoro was not so damaged in his fight with Kaku as Luffy was while fighting Lucci, it was still a struggle for him to win, in a way more similar to Sanji's own battle against Jabura than to Luffy's combat against Lucci. The difference between Lucci and Kaku/Jabura is not so small as you seem to believe, and, although saying he had almost half of Luffy's strength may have been an exaggeration on my part, he is in no way in the same level as the captain, been much closer to Sanji. Perhaps he has something close to 60% or 70% of Luffy's overall capacity, perhaps even 80% -- who knows? What is certain, however, is that he is not as strong as his captain.

The evidence I presented is one of the few quantifiable criteria of comparison exhibited in the manga about how Luffy, Zoro and Sanji stand in relation to each other when it comes to physical strength -- i.e., the doriki of enemies who fought with them almost on the same level. If you find that ungraspable, I would like to know which kind of evidence you would have to consistently stand against my view. The chapter you posted was a mostly comic duel with few, if any serious implications, which, to make things even worse, does not even have a satisfactory conclusion. Since they didn't even had any serious intent for victory in that fight, I don't see how it would be even close to a consistent source of comparison.

So I will amend it: You didn't say that Luffy reached Dracule's level of power.

Yet you wrote Luffy is logically always stronger than his crew mates because of his captain status. When you mentioned Mihawk and Silvers to be of nearly equal strength, it would imply that both can teach similarly good too, one in swordfighting, the other in haki. Had Luffy used a sword, he could have gotten some of that training too, gaining a bit of an advantage probably. Knowing that can use CoA the differences will be decreased even more.

But remember Zorro's last real 1vs1 fight. It was Ryuma, after he took down Brook. Since then Luffy had the Kuja, Impel Down and Marine Ford arc to shine and grow. Zoro on the other hand, casually split ships apart because he climbed on the wrong one, took Hyouzou apart like he was nothing, slashed Monet into nightmares and is still complaining about his swords itching for a fight to this very moment.

We will first have to see him fight against an equally strong opponent to make a fair comparison, don't you agree?

What evidence do we have to say they are equal? We know that their levels are not far away, but to say he is on Luffy's level is a very long stretch. As far as we know, Zoro should be, at the end of the manga, something close to Luffy's Rayleigh. It's a great feat, but no one in the manga has ever said that Rayleigh was just as great as Roger himself.

:/

Why would you make him to be a copy of the past generation, make them shine for what they are. Roger too used swords, so really weird. Is Mihawk the Rayleigh of Shanks generation in your eyes?

 

[danzouismadara]

Re: One Piece 719 Discussion/ 720 Predictions

zoro is stronger than luffy in my opinion just compare hody jones fight lol anyways I dont think we will see block D it would be pointless since cavendish is obviously the strongest. I think chaos will just spin out of control next chapter since the arena is destroyed and I think all the people will see the factory.

 

[Der Namenlose]

Re: OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

So I will amend it: You didn't say that Luffy reached Dracule's level of power.

Yet you wrote Luffy is logically always stronger than his crew mates because of his captain status. When you mentioned Mihawk and Silvers to be of nearly equal strength, it would imply that both can teach similarly good too, one in swordfighting, the other in haki. Had Luffy used a sword, he could have gotten some of that training too, gaining a bit of an advantage probably. Knowing that can use CoA the differences will be decreased even more.

But remember Zorro's last real 1vs1 fight. It was Ryuma, after he took down Brook. Since then Luffy had the Kuja, Impel Down and Marine Ford arc to shine and grow. Zoro on the other hand, casually split ships apart because he climbed on the wrong one, took Hyouzou apart like he was nothing, slashed Monet into nightmares and is still complaining about his swords itching for a fight to this very moment.

We will first have to see him fight against an equally strong opponent to make a fair comparison, don't you agree?

That's the logic of shonen, and I don't see One Piece ever going against it. Yes, I believe we should see him figthing before we make further suppositions about his power, but how likely it would be for him to become stronger than Luffy or able to fight an admiral? The former is impossible in a manga like One Piece, while the latter is obviously not true in the present moment, unless we are to assume Zoro is magically light-years above Law. My sole objective was to discourage such manifestations of fanboyism for Zoro. I don't believe he is weak or even extremely below Luffy, I just believe he is a strong first mate who, in spite of his power, is still below his captain.

Why would you make him to be a copy of the past generation, make them shine for what they are. Roger too used swords, so really weird. Is Mihawk the Rayleigh of Shanks generation in your eyes?

Don't blame me for that; blame Oda instead Luffy's obviously linked to Roger by fate, and I have already demonstrated my dislike for the exaggerated fatalism he chose to employ in his depiction of Luffy and Roger. As for Mihawk, he is not Shanks' first mate, is he? And since when is Shanks the Pirate King? He is linked to Roger by the hat, but he was never presented in the manga as so close to the man as Luffy himself. I'm only presenting connections Oda himself left in the manga, but you seem far bolder than me in that regard.

 

[tego809]

Re: One Piece 719 Discussion/ 720 Predictions

seriously, how can some of you guys compare Zoro with luffy, and even say Zoro is stronger than luffy. true, zoro hurt judy jones and luffy had a hard time with him. but, Luffy is a devil fruit eater and was fighting the guy on water, and on top of that, Hody Jones took like a 1000 drug pill and he was fighting in the Ocean .

Zoro might, might, MIGHT have the same endurance, but Luffy got more WILL and Power. and luffy can grow on strength during a fight. Why you think luffy gets to fight the Bosses and Captains of a crew?

stop the comparison

 

[Der Namenlose]

Re: One Piece 719 Discussion/ 720 Predictions

Why you think luffy gets to fight the Bosses and Captains of a crew?

That sums up the logic of One Piece pretty well. No matter how strong Zoro's going to be, it's virtually impossible for him to become stronger than the protagonist in a manga like One Piece. Something like that could be possible in more realistic works of fiction, but OP follows an extremely obvious and straightforward formula which does not allow such shifts in power scale, since the protagonist is obviously fated to become the Pirate King and the strongest man in the seas.

 

[Kuza]

Guys, Zoro is clear number 2 regarding strength in SH crew, BUT in one piece you don't have to be stronger to win. Like swords+haki > hands+haki, also Luffy is DF user and it can be exploited with water/kairoseki, so given the circumstances, Zoro can win against Luffy and vice versa.
Even though he is number 2, he is very close in temrs of brute force, and also I strongly believe Zoro has Mihawks eye implanted, so it's yet another boost for him.
To look from other point of view, I believe both of them can stand their ground against an admiral or even yonko, not overpower or clearly win, but survive and fight back is possible for both.
All in all this is very stupid to compare SHs to each other

 

[Schabrak]

Re: OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

That's the logic of shonen, and I don't see One Piece ever going against it. Yes, I believe we should see him figthing before we make further suppositions about his power, but how likely it would be for him to become stronger than Luffy or able to fight an admiral? The former is impossible in a manga like One Piece, while the latter is obviously not true in the present moment, unless we are to assume Zoro is magically light-years above Law. My sole objective was to discourage such manifestations of fanboyism for Zoro. I don't believe he is weak or even extremely below Luffy, I just believe he is a strong first mate who, in spite of his power, is still below his captain.

Don't blame me for that; blame Oda instead Luffy's obviously linked to Roger by fate, and I have already demonstrated my dislike for the exaggerated fatalism he chose to employ in his depiction of Luffy and Roger. As for Mihawk, he is not Shanks' first mate, is he? And since when is Shanks the Pirate King? He is linked to Roger by the hat, but he was never presented in the manga as so close to the man as Luffy himself. I'm only presenting connections Oda himself left in the manga, but you seem far bolder than me in that regard.

Logic, logic, logic... You are supposed to deliver an argument that's supported by the manga, not repeatedly annoy me with saying "MC X vs Nemesis/Antagonist Y" is so logical, it's so typical shounen so it has to be this way. I understand your argument about the first mate, but it's baseless still, it has a connection to other manga or other characters, not with Zoro himself after the time-skip. For all we know he could be just as strong, with Luffy being the better all-round fighter being capable to use all haki forms ~equaly.

It's not your job to discourage people from liking characters, it's rude to even write it out here so shamelessly, as if you had any proof that anybody arguing for Zoro is a fan boy, be sure that I like the mugiwaras likewise.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

zoro has equal combat power to luffy, stated by oda.

 

[Ninomiya]

zoro has equal combat power to luffy, stated by oda.

Can I see the link to that please?

To look from other point of view, I believe both of them can stand their ground against an admiral or even yonko, not overpower or clearly win, but survive and fight back is possible for both.
All in all this is very stupid to compare SHs to each other

You think Luffy and Zoro can stand their ground against a Yonkou individually? Seriously?
If Shanks can effortlessly stop the same punch that killed Ace, and he did it so easily the Haki on his Sword meant the magma had zero effect on it, you think Luffy can take on Blackbeard and stand his ground?

From what we've seen, Luffy & Zoro can fight Admirals but Yonkou's are supposed to be even more dangerous than Admirals.

 

[Der Namenlose]

Re: OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

Logic, logic, logic... You are supposed to deliver an argument that's supported by the manga, not repeatedly annoy me with saying "MC X vs Nemesis/Antagonist Y" is so logical, it's so typical shounen so it has to be this way. I understand your argument about the first mate, but it's baseless still, it has a connection to other manga or other characters, not with Zoro himself after the time-skip. For all we know he could be just as strong, with Luffy being the better all-round fighter being capable to use all haki forms ~equaly.

It's not your job to discourage people from liking characters, it's rude to even write it out here so shamelessly, as if you had any proof that anybody arguing for Zoro is a fan boy, be sure that I like the mugiwaras likewise.

As far as we know, that's the best base anyone can get in OP -- and the connections I have shown are present in OP, not in other mangas, since even shonen have some variation. The "doriki argument" was a quantifiable standard of comparison, while the "first mate argument" was just part of a series of arguments -- Roger's numerous similes in Luffy's journey, the Joy Boy simile in Fishman Island, etc -- concerning OP's s conception of genre as a fatalist tale in which Luffy is fated to be the strongest. I don't like it, but I accept it as it is. Have you any base to say that Zoro could become the crew's strongest? I have cited many hints left by Oda, but all you have presented yet is a comical quarrel between them. I don't believe you are in a proper position to claim my arguments baseless. Zoro is not an individual entity with no restrictions by the story's internal logic at all -- no one in One Piece is. The power scale is limited by Oda's conception of the characters and of OP's style of plot and storytelling, which dictate Luffy must be the strongest in the seas -- Chinjao's explicit words and Mihawk's suggestion -- and, consequently, stronger than Zoro. Can Zoro be almost as trong as the captain? Well, of course he can! But sorry, he can't be stronger. He can even be more effective against certain enemies, just as Mr. 3 was useful against Magellan, Zoro, and the giants due to his personal ability, but not exactly stronger.

Since when I'm discouraging people to like Zoro? I like him, but liking him and believing him to be the best -- and able to fight admirals! -- are two entirely different things. That's a board for argumentation, so I can express what seems completely unrealistic to me, right? You are always doing this, so don't complain when someone do the same with an argument you support -- that is, if you even support it, since I'm unsure you do. To believe he is stronger than Luffy and Law seems like fanboyism to me, whether the ones making such an argument are real fanboys or not. Perhaps I could have used a better word -- and I apologize if I offended you --, but the fact that Zoro's strength is being overrated remains. Moreover, I don't think you should be accusing me of rudeness in such a detached way when you make hyperbolical provocations in the majority of your comments. I'm at least being mostly direct and unironic about what I think, and, although I apologize if I offended anyone, I believe you should also be aware that your mode of speech is not exactly polite or friendly.

 

[Schabrak]

Re: OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

As far as we know, that's the best base anyone can get in OP -- and the connections I have shown are present in OP, not in other mangas, since even shonen have some variation. The "doriki argument" was a quantifiable standard of comparison, while the "first mate argument" was just part of a series of arguments -- Roger's numerous similes in Luffy's journey, the Joy Boy simile in Fishman Island, etc -- concerning OP's s conception of genre as a fatalist tale in which Luffy is fated to be the strongest. I don't like it, but I accept it as it is. Have you any base to say that Zoro could become the crew's strongest? I have cited many hints left by Oda, but all you have presented yet is a comical quarrel between them. I don't believe you are in a proper position to claim my arguments baseless. Zoro is not an individual entity with no restrictions by the story's internal logic at all -- no one in One Piece is. The power scale is limited by Oda's conception of the characters and of OP's style of plot and storytelling, which dictate Luffy must be the strongest in the seas -- Chinjao's explicit words and Mihawk's suggestion -- and, consequently, stronger than Zoro. Can Zoro be almost as trong as the captain? Well, of course he can! But sorry, he can't be stronger. He can even be more effective against certain enemies, just as Mr. 3 was useful against Magellan, Zoro, and the giants due to his personal ability, but not exactly stronger.

Since when I'm discouraging people to like Zoro? I like him, but liking him and believing him to be the best -- and able to fight admirals! -- are two entirely different things. That's a board for argumentation, so I can express what seems completely unrealistic to me, right? You are always doing this, so don't complain when someone do the same with an argument you support -- that is, if you even support it, since I'm unsure you do. To believe he is stronger than Luffy and Law seems like fanboyism to me, whether the ones making such an argument are real fanboys or not. Perhaps I could have used a better word -- and I apologize if I offended you --, but the fact that Zoro's strength is being overrated remains. Moreover, I don't think you should be accusing me of rudeness in such a detached way when you make hyperbolical provocations in the majority of your comments. I'm at least being mostly direct and unironic about what I think, and, although I apologize if I offended anyone, I believe you should also be aware that your mode of speech is not exactly polite or friendly.

Yeah you got that right, I press the like/thanks button for good comments as I don't see the meaning of repeating stuff, I reply to those I disagree with and sometime's I quote someone to elaborate on an idea.

I don't think I need to be friendly and reserved with idea's that I find very unreasonable. How does you arguing that much against the possibility of Zoro being as strong as Luffy stop people from sharing such opinion? What else besides that Doriki value from eight years ago[which are dated], from two years ago[two years of unknown training] within the plot and that "shounen logic" do you have to support that opinion? What entitles you to dismiss those theories and ideas as wrong without any current information regarding his full strength yet?

I have nothing to argue for Zoro being stronger than Luffy, as I never argued for that to begin with, it was always about being equally strong or similarly strong.

So if you don't like it, why are you following that mindset like someone without an own mind? Who but yourself is dictating you to think in that stereotyped thinking.

 

[Der Namenlose]

Re: OP 719: Luffy & Zoro

Yeah you got that right, I press the like/thanks button for good comments as I don't see the meaning of repeating stuff, I reply to those I disagree with and sometime's I quote someone to elaborate on an idea.

I don't think I need to be friendly and reserved with idea's that I find very unreasonable. How does you arguing that much against the possibility of Zoro being as strong as Luffy stop people from sharing such opinion? What else besides that Doriki value from eight years ago[which are dated], from two years ago[two years of unknown training] within the plot and that "shounen logic" do you have to support that opinion? What entitles you to dismiss those theories and ideas as wrong without any current information regarding his full strength yet?

I have nothing to argue for Zoro being stronger than Luffy, as I never argued for that to begin with, it was always about being equally strong or similarly strong.

So if you don't like it, why are you following that mindset like someone without an own mind? Who but yourself is dictating you to think in that stereotyped thinking.

Hã? Oda is, obviously. I don't like that because I would have preferred another approach, but I know I can't change OP, since I'm not the author. If you don't believe politeness is necessary, then what's the meaning in complaining about rudeness? And why do you argue if you believe arguments are meaningless? Talk about inconsistency. Some people, me included, believe rationality and politeness are healthy to discussions, and I thought you were one of them, although I was probably led to such a mistake by your apparently unjustified complaint.

The doriki is dated, but not so much as the chapter you posted, although it still offers some ground for comparison just before Thriller Bark. The similes I posted are not dated, though, so simply ignoring their existence is not going to make them disappear, I'm afraid. And you? Have some argument at all as for the possibility of their levels being just the same?

 

[kkck]

Dunno, to me it seems oda at large has never really presented the monster trio to vary significantly in terms of overall strength. As far as the manga has actually cared to show luffy is at most marginally stronger than zoro and zoro is at most marginally stronger than sanji which would suggest the only noticeable difference in strength would be between luffy and sanji.

Seriously, when has oda ever shown luffy to be outright superior to zoro or zoro to be outright superior to sanji? Luffy does usually fight the main arc antagonist however to a great degree that is also because zoro himself believes it is luffy's job to do so and zoro prioritizes fighting the enemy's swordsman over fighting the enemy antagonist. Heck, just look at the fishman island arc. Hyozo was able to block a gear two punch from luffy and yet hodi himself failed to block an attack from underwater zoro so it seems reasonably certain that hyozo was actually well stronger than hodi. Adding the pills just made hyozo that much more of a monster in comparison to hodi. And zoro did seem to have a way easier time with hyozo than luffy did with hodi even when on land (although hodi did keep taking pills and luffy deals a different sort of damage from zoro).

Also, I get the impression that the whole swords vs fist thing has become less relevant recently. With the introduction of haki and armament hardening it becomes perfectly plausible to defend from sword slashes with your bare body. I don't think it would be possible to defend from everything with your body however at least with standard attacks it should be viable. We don't know just how strong cavendish is just yet but chinjao did defend from his attack with haki and his head. If cavendish has any degree of strength then it should be a pretty good preview of what is to come.

 

[Schabrak]

I respect you as a person, I respect an informed and good theory, I don't withewash what I believe to be a bad argument though.

You saying that it was your goal to stop people from thinking that Zoro could ever reach Luffy's level is still rude, especially after I pointed out how baseless it is. Luffy will likely stay the strongest, but there is nothing substantial to support that idea besides "the MC is the MC, therefore he's bound to be the ultimate and strongest character". I don't want to repeat myself, let's agree to disagree unless you have any recent[last five years] chapters/panels/anything supporting your opinion.

Seriously, when has oda ever shown luffy to be outright superior to zoro or zoro to be outright superior to sanji?

Never, but maybe Der Namenlose can deliver after all?

 

[Der Namenlose]

I respect you as a person, I respect an informed and good theory, I don't withewash what I believe to be a bad argument though.

You saying that it was your goal to stop people from thinking that Zoro could ever reach Luffy's level is still rude, especially after I pointed out how baseless it is. Luffy will likely stay the strongest, but there is nothing substantial to support that idea besides "the MC is the MC, therefore he's bound to be the ultimate and strongest character". I don't want to repeat myself, let's agree to disagree unless you have any recent[last five years] chapters/panels/anything supporting your opinion.


Never, but maybe Der Namenlose can deliver after all?

First of all, I don't believe I'm going to stop people from believing in anything, and I never said that. I said I wanted to discourage fanboyism, just as you want to discourage what you believe is untrue. If I'm rude by such a standard, you are equally rude, and most of the forum users -- i.e., all the forum users that argue against something they disagree -- are rude too. Wheter our arguments are going to change anything or not has little or nothing to do with it.

As for showing whether Luffy is stronger or not, I have already cited Chinjao and the similes. They aren't dated, are they? If you want to disagree, that's okay. You have no obligation to agree with anything at all, being it true, false or uncertain. Just don't pretend you have an argument which truly suggests Zoro may be just as strong as Luffy, even though you have not cited anything to support your position, unless we are to count the same chapter which does not pass your five years test. Yes, I concede there is an existing, even though small chance they're in the exact same level, although I still don't deem the first argument I argued against to be possibly true -- i.e., that Zoro's capacity may be far above Luffy's.

Moreover, you have not pointed out how baseless my arguments are yet, since you did not present an exposition of why my genre argument is untrue. You are free to do so, however, but remember you would have to present a reasonable reply as to why all these similes are there if they don't mean anything at all.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

Zoro vs luffy ended in a draw
Zoro has been mistaken for being the captain several times.
Luffy mentions few times his trust in the strenght of zoro.
sample: http://www.mangareader.net/103-2351-4/one-piece/chapter-244.html
Zoro and luffy have been doing combo attacks several times.
Zoro and luffy are both supernova's.
Zoro and luffy have been potrayed as equal by oda in the manga several times.
Sample: http://www.mangareader.net/103-2470-13/one-piece/chapter-363.html

Zoro had been battling kaku and wolfman with usopp being cuffed to him, when he wasnt cuffed yet, usopp was confident zoro could take those two out.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2509-3/one-piece/chapter-402.html

Zoro 1 shotted Mr.1 when he learned the breath of things.
Zoro 1 shotted kaku when he used asura.

Even in the databook it has been said zoro has equal combat ability to luffy

Luffy = zoro combat wise, but they have both their style and ability's wich allows them to battle certain enemies.

 

[takneeque]

Spoiler

As far as we know, that's the best base anyone can get in OP -- and the connections I have shown are present in OP, not in other mangas, since even shonen have some variation. The "doriki argument" was a quantifiable standard of comparison, while the "first mate argument" was just part of a series of arguments -- Roger's numerous similes in Luffy's journey, the Joy Boy simile in Fishman Island, etc -- concerning OP's s conception of genre as a fatalist tale in which Luffy is fated to be the strongest. I don't like it, but I accept it as it is. Have you any base to say that Zoro could become the crew's strongest? I have cited many hints left by Oda, but all you have presented yet is a comical quarrel between them. I don't believe you are in a proper position to claim my arguments baseless. Zoro is not an individual entity with no restrictions by the story's internal logic at all -- no one in One Piece is. The power scale is limited by Oda's conception of the characters and of OP's style of plot and storytelling, which dictate Luffy must be the strongest in the seas -- Chinjao's explicit words and Mihawk's suggestion -- and, consequently, stronger than Zoro. Can Zoro be almost as trong as the captain? Well, of course he can! But sorry, he can't be stronger. He can even be more effective against certain enemies, just as Mr. 3 was useful against Magellan, Zoro, and the giants due to his personal ability, but not exactly stronger.

Since when I'm discouraging people to like Zoro? I like him, but liking him and believing him to be the best -- and able to fight admirals! -- are two entirely different things. That's a board for argumentation, so I can express what seems completely unrealistic to me, right? You are always doing this, so don't complain when someone do the same with an argument you support -- that is, if you even support it, since I'm unsure you do. To believe he is stronger than Luffy and Law seems like fanboyism to me, whether the ones making such an argument are real fanboys or not. Perhaps I could have used a better word -- and I apologize if I offended you --, but the fact that Zoro's strength is being overrated remains. Moreover, I don't think you should be accusing me of rudeness in such a detached way when you make hyperbolical provocations in the majority of your comments. I'm at least being mostly direct and unironic about what I think, and, although I apologize if I offended anyone, I believe you should also be aware that your mode of speech is not exactly polite or friendly.

not taking any sides,but i like your writing/presentation style. just adding that content wise,i would have to disagree.just like luffy,i don't think we can ever overestimate zorro.

anyways,onto the argument about strength levels,i feel ambivalent towards the two sides(MC being always strongest(cliche) and zorro being too badass to let luffy defeat him.)i think we all can agree there is no way we can know who is the stronger of them because in all likelihood,there is not gonna be a fight between them.just my two cents.

 

[kkck]

One thing I have always believed about this particular manga is that for the most part oda intends on maintaining character's relative strength to one another. So far we have never actually even seen a character change his position of strength within the crew as far as I am able to tell at least (actually this might be the case with robin though). So that makes this chapter specially relevant even today in regards to the issue.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2219-13/one-piece/chapter-112.html

To be honest I think oda meant for those two to remain ambiguous in terms of how they compare to the other. Kinda like something for fans to wonder about and to have some sense of rivalry between the two of them even as friends. Anyways, if how they compare to the other remains a constant in the manga then I would argue they should still fight as evenly as shown here. Zoro was able to fight with a transformed kaku with no powerups. Luffy fought with base lucci with no powerups. Zoro easily overpowered kaku with azura, Luffy fought a long and drawn out battle which could have gone either way against transformed lucci. Same comparison can be made with the sanji/jyabura fight.

 

[Der Namenlose]

Seriously, when has oda ever shown luffy to be outright superior to zoro or zoro to be outright superior to sanji?

CP9 would suggest Luffy was at least slightly superior to them at that moment, although it did not suggest Zoro and Sanji were neccessarily stronger than each other, since they fought in similar conditions with enemies similarly strong. As for there being a difference between Luffy and Sanji but not between Luffy and Zoro, I don't remember anything at all that could suggest something like this. If there is a difference between them at all, I don't believe we have enough evidence to say Sanji is that below Zoro.

One thing I have always believed about this particular manga is that for the most part oda intends on maintaining character's relative strength to one another. So far we have never actually even seen a character change his position of strength within the crew as far as I am able to tell at least (actually this might be the case with robin though). So that makes this chapter specially relevant even today in regards to the issue.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2219-13/one-piece/chapter-112.html

To be honest I think oda meant for those two to remain ambiguous in terms of how they compare to the other. Kinda like something for fans to wonder about and to have some sense of rivalry between the two of them even as friends. Anyways, if how they compare to the other remains a constant in the manga then I would argue they should still fight as evenly as shown here. Zoro was able to fight with a transformed kaku with no powerups. Luffy fought with base lucci with no powerups. Zoro easily overpowered kaku with azura, Luffy fought a long and drawn out battle which could have gone either way against transformed lucci. Same comparison can be made with the sanji/jyabura fight.

Yes, that might be possible -- if you include Sanji in the group, that is --, although I still believe the possibility of Luffy being the strongest in the crew to be far more probable. Perhaps that's going to be clarified in the fight against the Yonkou, or perhaps that's never going to be clearly pointed out by Oda. I would like to remember, however, that there is no sense of rivalry between Zoro and Luffy, but only between him and Sanji. Thus, if there is any meaning to such an ambiguity, I don't believe it would be friendly rivalry.