Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[David Rose]

I don't know if it's worth answering, but nontheless:

Luffy saved zoro's life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeM7XtILEA

Luffy saving Zorro's life was the motivation to go. But Luffy beeing stronger and beeing a "good" captain is what makes him stay. He's loyal, but he won't follow orders of someone inferior.

Zoro has the best Busoshoku Haki, luffy wont be blocking zoro's swords with just his haki.
Their specialty haki color is in the parentheses
Luffy (Haoshoku Haki), Zoro (Busoshoku Haki), Sanji (Kenbunshoku Haki)
link: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_71

Just because they have a specialty doesn't mean Luffy can't surpass them both. Haoshoku can't be trained, so Luffy could still completely master the other two coloers aswell, like he does. This whole explaination from Oda is more regarding to Zorro and Sanji, as Luffy is a special case anyways.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-2592-13/one-piece/chapter-485.html a lovetap from zoro and sanji goes K.O
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2592-19/one-piece/chapter-485.html taking in all damage and fatique that made Luffy go K.O + his own fatique and damage.

The unexpectet attack from a friend is always a story element and has no meaning whatsoever for the comparison of strength. That would be like saying Nami has Haki, because she can hurt Luffy.
Yes, he absorbed all the fatigue, but he did it over a larger timespan. Doesn't mean Sanji or Luffy wouldn't be able to do so aswell. Luffy was the character that suffered the worst injuries.

Zoro was perfectly able to kill both kaku and jyabura together , however story wise oda made usopp handcuff himself to Zoro, and he still was holding his ground.
Even usopp was confident he'd defeat those 2.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2509-3/one-piece/chapter-402.html

Usopp is a coward and justified to himself that Zorro is kinda strong, so he doesn't need to help him. That's not even meant to be the slightest assumption in terms of true power, but a display for Usopps character, like he does with every other powerfull opponent.


On topic:

BB is currently way stronger than Luffy. He has the strongest fruit from two separate categories. And we can expect him to have gained full control over it. That would make him arguably more powerfull than the old Whitebeard. His very own weakness is that he has a bad defense, but that wont help Luffy at all, since the combination of getting sucked in, then loosing your power and then getting punched with the power of an earthquake is kinda bad.
So far it's very likely BB will become the strongest Yonkou and battle Luffy for the One Piece. That means he'll have an advantage in power until then. You don't become a Yonkou for nothing.

Also, BB can cover a vast area with darkness. That means Luffy would have to fly, to get to him without loosing his powers. And without Gear 2 he can't move freely with Soru. The moment he touches the ground he's done. Play it as you like. For the time beeing BB is constructed as the bad Luffy in many different ways, so he will get the same love from Oda regarding his development.

 

[Schabrak]

I don't know if it's worth answering, but nontheless:

Luffy saving Zorro's life was the motivation to go. But Luffy beeing stronger and beeing a "good" captain is what makes him stay. He's loyal, but he won't follow orders of someone inferior.

He's only commenting on Luffy using CoC, which was as Don Chinjao mentioned is the very foundation to even have a chance of becoming Pirate King. It's not like Zoro would need CoC to do similar feats. :P His short "fight" with Monet might be an indication that he got CoC also and Oda just confirmed where everyone from the Monster Trio is best at.[O: Their specialty haki color is in the parentheses.]

Whom are you referring to with "larger timespan"? Zoro is clearly the one that took the most damage in the shortest time. Luffy in ID did lose ten years of his life, suffered through the poison and body change over the longest perior of time. Both incredible feats, I have no way to decide which was harder aside from Luffy's treatment being the one that made him suffer for far longer than Zoro had.

The idea of Teach sucking in people to give them high speed quake punches, ouch. ^^

 

[kkck]

Well, since the SBS recently confirmed something that should be obvious to all, the affinity luffy, sanji and zoro have towards haki, I wonder if there will be a special significance to it. Not with zoro or sanji but with luffy's affinity to conqueror's haki. We know each person has an affinity to a type of haki and within all the people around only 1 in 1000000 has the conqueror's haki. However having the conqueror's haki should not necessarily imply an affinity to it. So the fact that luffy has an affinity to the conqueror's haki could potentially make him unique even among conqueror haki users so to speak. Otherwise luffy just has a bad deal considering that up to now it still seems like armament haki is more useful.

 

[Schabrak]

Could be explained by Luffy having an extremely strong will and wish to become Pirate King, mostly not caring for others, only his nakama and friends.

And him not having an affinity to CoA doesn't say much, he's advanced in it's usage already as can be seen with him casually using hardening.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

hardening seems like a haki technique to me.
Who knows, we might even see sharpening or other specialized haki technique's in the future.

 

[kkck]

Could be explained by Luffy having an extremely strong will and wish to become Pirate King, mostly not caring for others, only his nakama and friends.

And him not having an affinity to CoA doesn't say much, he's advanced in it's usage already as can be seen with him casually using hardening.

I wasn't talking about an explanation of why luffy could have such an affinity, I was wondering about the significance of it. Conqueror's haki has not been shown as an overwhelmingly powerful ability so far. Heck, if anything the ability has been shown as plain weak as large. Its not like the 50000 guys luffy took out at fishman island would have made a difference had they actually fought luffy. Yet whenever it is actually seen it is generally implied there is some great significance to the ability. And consistently the manga has shown only great people or those with great potential to have it. WB, shanks, rayleigh, doflamingo, chinjao.... they are legendary pirates at the bare minimum. Luffy and ace were the most significant rookies of their generation.

So taking that in consideration, what is the significance of a conqueror's haki user who has an actual affinity to the conqueror's haki? I guess it is possible all conqueror haki users have the affinity however at least until the manga confirms it I think we should assume that someone capable of the conqueror's haki could have any affinity... So the odds of someone being a conqueror's haki user are 1 in 1000000 and the odds of having an affinity to it are 1 in 3 (or less depending if there is a particular rarity to any given affinity). Basically as an user of the conqueror's haki who has an affinity to it luffy could actually be exceptional among users of this type of haki altogether. If only 1 in 1000000 people are users of the conqueror's haki then only 1 in 3000000 million people would have this characteristic if we take numbers literally. It would be rarer if the odds of affinities are not the same.

 

[Schabrak]

I would say it's the most important ability to become Pirate King since haoushoku haki translates to conquerers ambition. Becoming Pirate King means being the greatest conquerer on earth, being capable of beating every other enemy, be king of kings, conqurer of conquerers. But to be able to rule them all one is in need of a pariticular strong will/ambition, CoC. Oda didn't drop the biggest shock of the participants of the Marineford War [besides BBs arrival] on Luffy having CoC for nothing. It allows him to easily influence people and get them to follow/support him however they can. The ability to gain alliances and supporters will be one of the most needed and likely the most important power of the New World.

Yeah, Luffy is a special² character.^^

 

[MBVC]

And yet Luffy was able to land a g2 blow on him without big effort, and now his haki enhanced blows are way more powerful. Also we do not know how yami yami would effect a haki user, and if it will work at all. WB's fruit is insane, he can destroy islands now, but again are you sure a df power can destroy haki enforced swords?
No doubt BB is incredibly powerful, especially against logias, but it doesn't make him invincible, you see what I mean?
And regarding extremely high gravity, imho it's Fujitora who's got it, BB's gravity attack, that we have seen until now are not that effective vs a guy who can soru around as much as he wants.

If I remember correctly, WB had automatic defense with his quake fruit when Ace tried to kill him during his deep sleep. The quake power just bounces or cancels every physical attacks therefore Luffy can't stand anywhere near him.

Quake df + haki >>> swords + haki (Law gave us a clear example from the combination of df with his sword >>> Vergo's haki). In this case, as long as BB's haki level higher than Zoro then all his swords are broken useless.

BB's dark logica is indeed gravity and everything having mass is effected by gravity, Fujitora's df is "inertia" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia)

Now back to the monster trio:

I think Sanji will never have CoC no matter what happens, he's just not the type at all. On the other hand, Zoro is heading toward this road (greatest swordsman ~ king of sword) so he must have all 3 types of haki similar to Luffy. Luffy really needs to develop more on CoA to a level such that he doesn't have to dodge any weaklings' attacks (he dodges Rebecca's sword) or his skin is hard enough to break all the shark teeth (in Hody's case).

 

[Schabrak]

Quake df + haki >>> swords + haki

Quake df + haki + physical strength & speed >>> everything else

That's a trivial argument to make. :P

edit:
Forgot the Darkness DF.
Quake df + haki >>> Darkness df as could be seen at the war
Quake df + haki ? Darkness df + haki

 

[MBVC]

Quake df + haki + physical strength & speed >>> everything else

That's a trivial argument to make. :P

Not always true, I know a special way using gum gum to beat the quake df, not the combo gravito-quake of course, but the quake fruit alone can be beaten by gum gum df. Not sure how air/wind df can do, but if the atmosphere has no air then that logica is totally useless and the gum gum is able to do that with an extremely special unique technique.

 

[HereNThere]

Luffy's "affinity" towards Conquerors Haki may have something to do with hearing the voice of all things. Maybe it also has something to do with the initial D. And going by Rayleigh's words, it growing with the users spirit, Luffy's affinity towards it is understandable. Out of everyone we've encountered with Haoshoku Haki, Luffy seemed much more ambitious than them and is still growing. A few we've seen seem to have stopped being as ambitious as they previously could have been and may have reached a wall to improve their CH.

I would like Sanji to have CH as well, because I am a Sanji fanboy. Don't care how much sense it doesn't make. It doesn't need to be as strong as Luffy's or Zoro's(if and when he gets it) as long as he has it.

Not always true, I know a special way using gum gum to beat the quake df, not the combo gravito-quake of course, but the quake fruit alone can be beaten by gum gum df. Not sure how air/wind df can do, but if the atmosphere has no air then that logica is totally useless and the gum gum is able to do that with an extremely special unique technique.

Do go on. I would like to know of this technique.

 

[Ninomiya]

mostly not caring for others, only his nakama and friends.

Wouldn't go that far, Luffy begged Zoro to save Smoker's life, the guy who was trying to capture him and end his journey.
Luffy is extremely caring in general.

 

[natli]

I am very concerned. Not about the Monster Trio, because whatever Oda has in store for them will be epic. I'm concerned about Nami, Usopp and Robin.

Nami - her "fight" with Califa still gives me nightmares. Comedy and fanservice at its worst. I'll expect something better in the New World: thunderstorms, tornadoes summoned at will, etc.
Usopp - After seeing Mansopp I had high expectations. So far nothing happened. I want to see a one-on-one in which Usopp's sniping will be put to good use.
Robin - Her last one-on-one fight was in Skypiea. For godssakes, Oda!

 

[Schabrak]

He knows Smoker from past events, he knows that he's a good marine like his granddad.

 

[HereNThere]

I am very concerned. Not about the Monster Trio, because whatever Oda has in store for them will be epic. I'm concerned about Nami, Usopp and Robin.

Robin - Her last one-on-one fight was in Skypiea. For godssakes, Oda!

I'm also a bit disappointed in Nami and Ussop's recent showings, but I'm really disappointed that Robin didn't learn Haki during the 2 year time skip.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'm also a bit disappointed in Nami and Ussop's recent showings, but I'm really disappointed that Robin didn't learn Haki during the 2 year time skip.

She wouldn't have just worked on her DF alone during the TS. I am willing to bet that she has may have KH but BH might be a bit of a stretch

With the exception of KH most BH or HH users seem to be either Brawlers, Martial Artists, Swordsmen or Snipers. Robin is typically not a fighter. Her only offensive capabilities is her DF which work best as an assassin oriented tool where she uses clutch to swiftly clear her opponents.

Therefore a one on one fight between her would be pointless. She could just easily use clutch if they weren't fast and her Body Flower technique on faster ones.

 

[MBVC]

Quake df + haki + physical strength & speed >>> everything else

That's a trivial argument to make. :P

edit:
Forgot the Darkness DF.
Quake df + haki >>> Darkness df as could be seen at the war
Quake df + haki ? Darkness df + haki

I really don't understand why you want this comparison because BB has both of them right now.

---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

Do go on. I would like to know of this technique.

Sorry, Luffy is still too weak to use it. His current power level isn't abe to do anything close to it although he'd die from overusing his power.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Well, about affinities...
Even though Zoro has an affinity to CoA, while Luffy has an affinity to CoC doesn't mean that Zoro's CoA is stronger than Luffy's. it depends on training and a person's progress.
As for me I think that Luffy surpasses Zoro quite comfortably in this department. Actually I would say he is one of the best shown in CoA so far.

 

[Schabrak]

Zoro simply never had the chance or reason to use CoA for his fights to compare him to Luffy. Hyouzou was a weakling and Monet peed her pants from a single air cut to her face, even Zoro is complaining about that already. :P I don't think we will see any Hardening from him either, well maybe, since it's not so clear if every haki induced weapon will turn black or not.

 

[kkck]

Usage of COA should be different for luffy and zoro. Haki hardening is not something which zoro needs as desperately as luffy so far. for luffy, who fights with his body, being able to harden is something which enhances his defense and offense. In zoro's case being able to harden is not quite as useful because he has pretty good swords to begin with and he already uses them for offense and defense. I guess he could use hardening on them but the effect IMO would not be as dramatic as if someone else used it.

As for the best haki user we have seen I would argue it has to be vergo. He is the only user so far who has used a full body haki hardening. The issue when comparing him to others is not one of skill though, its one of power. His usage of haki is the best we have seen so far, his amount of power however is not.