Info Official Fanbook Volume 10.5

[redhairSH]

Yeah, that's a typo, 10/26 is correct. Fat fingers ^^

That's my birthday, yay, I'm Oni!!!!! lol

 

[Phantron]

Oni and Byoduoin's stats are ??? on their first match, before they used Kishin/dimensional powers.

I think the guys with ??? are just so special that measuring their stats is irrelevent. Duke has a power of 7, but it's pretty clear that both Byodouin and Oni can hit a shot significantly stronger than he can. Kaji has a speed of 7, but if he played even H1 Byodouin it's not like you'll expect him to hit the shot cross court and then Byodouin being too slow to get it. What's going to happen is you're going to just see this cloud of smoke and Byodouin magically appear on the opposite side, and it'd be because he was already there all along and Kaji just couldn't even see him. It's kind of like how a speed rating on Sanada is meaningless. You're talking about two guys that normal people cannot see on a tennis court even before using any of their special aura/powers. Byodouin can be a slug and it wouldn't matter to his opponent because they wouldn't even be able to tell where he is to begin with.

 

[Sai]

correction, in their first match the charts said No Data on them.

In these current charts, they say immeasurable.

 

[Ninomiya]

Oni and Byoduoin's stats are ??? on their first match, before they used Kishin/dimensional powers.

I think the guys with ??? are just so special that measuring their stats is irrelevent. Duke has a power of 7, but it's pretty clear that both Byodouin and Oni can hit a shot significantly stronger than he can.

I think there may be a difference between a more "dangerous" shot and a "powerful" shot in PoT.
Remember its said that Tooyama can hit a more dangerous shot than Ishida Gin?
Although Ishida Gin has more power than Tooyama. I think whilst DH has the most Power in the series, Byoudouin & Oni's shots are simply the most dangerous.
Since Byoudouin and Oni's wrists were completely fine lol. It was their faces that got severely scarred.

 

[Phantron]

I think there may be a difference between a more "dangerous" shot and a "powerful" shot in PoT.
Remember its said that Tooyama can hit a more dangerous shot than Ishida Gin?
Although Ishida Gin has more power than Tooyama. I think whilst DH has the most Power in the series, Byoudouin & Oni's shots are simply the most dangerous.
Since Byoudouin and Oni's wrists were completely fine lol. It was their faces that got severely scarred.

I think it's more like power being feats of strength and the actual shots being a matter of doing destruction. Nanjirou probably isn't someone with exceptional physical strength, but he can kill a boar with a makeshift racket and a small rock. If you need to push aside a giant rock, it's hard to see anybody beating Duke here. But if you need to blow up the said rock, there are quite a few guys who are better at blowing things up than he.

 

[FrostyMouse]

I think it's more like power being feats of strength and the actual shots being a matter of doing destruction. Nanjirou probably isn't someone with exceptional physical strength, but he can kill a boar with a makeshift racket and a small rock. If you need to push aside a giant rock, it's hard to see anybody beating Duke here. But if you need to blow up the said rock, there are quite a few guys who are better at blowing things up than he.

Considering that Oni trains by lifting boulders, I'd say that Oni's actually physically stronger than Duke.

 

[LetalHawk]

Sai can you do Ryoma, Sanada and Yukimura's stats and profile?

 

[Ninomiya]

I think it's more like power being feats of strength and the actual shots being a matter of doing destruction. Nanjirou probably isn't someone with exceptional physical strength, but he can kill a boar with a makeshift racket and a small rock. If you need to push aside a giant rock, it's hard to see anybody beating Duke here. But if you need to blow up the said rock, there are quite a few guys who are better at blowing things up than he.

Considering that Oni trains by lifting boulders, I'd say that Oni's actually physically stronger than Duke.

Our conversation here seems completely illogical buts its actually rather canon.
I'd say I agree with that too, Duke can send his opponents the farthest in the series, whereas Byoudouin and Oni are able to deliver the most permanent damage to their opponents in the series.
So I still say that the concept of "Powerful" and "Dangerous" are 2 completely different things in PoT.

---

Sai can you do Ryoma, Sanada and Yukimura's stats and profile?

We're getting through the HSers first.
Since its probably those who we need to understand the most in SPoT.

 

[-Ken-]

Well, to be honest, if we already established that the stat sheet doesn't include special move that the character use, it wouldn't really show that there's a difference between the two word, would it? It wouldn't show that 108th Hadokyuu is more powerful than Mountain Storm or if Mountain Storm is more dangerous than 108th Hadokyuu?

 

[ShikiKira]

The stat sheets may not tell us that Mountain Storm is more dangerous than the 108th Hadokyu, but Gin did. Gin stated during Ryoma and Kintaro's one point match that Mountain Storm is more dangerous than his 108th Hadokyu.

 

[-Ken-]

The stat sheets may not tell us that Mountain Storm is more dangerous than the 108th Hadokyu, but Gin did. Gin stated during Ryoma and Kintaro's one point match that Mountain Storm is more dangerous than his 108th Hadokyu.

I know. And Gin have more power than Kintarou. But what I'm saying is that Gin power being higher than Kintarou does not show that Mountain Storm is a less powerful move than 108th Hadokyuu.

And it's also confirmed to be more dangerous, due to that page you say.

 

[Ninomiya]

Well, to be honest, if we already established that the stat sheet doesn't include special move that the character use, it wouldn't really show that there's a difference between the two word, would it? It wouldn't show that 108th Hadokyuu is more powerful than Mountain Storm or if Mountain Storm is more dangerous than 108th Hadokyuu?

Except it does.
Kawamura has a 5 in Power. He can hit 108th Hadoukyuu. Its highly likely that what he hit against Ban was not a Hadoukyuu, but Kawamura isn't retarded and its extremely likely he screamed 108th Hadoukyuu because it was a shot he could genuinely hit.
So since Kawamura and Tooyama are both a 5 in Power, it shows there likely is a difference between the two words.

Oni can shatter wrists, but for some reason he can't shatter walls.
Byoudouin can shatter walls. At that time, it was still hard to confirm who was the stronger player in terms of Power.

Date can send humans into the sky. According to Konomi, Winter of Danji can send up to 5 people into the sky.
For some reason, Oni cannot send his opponents into the sky. Yet I wouldn't say Oni is weaker in power than Date.

So there has to be some difference in wording.

 

[Brandnewkid]

Oni can shatter wrists, but for some reason he can't shatter walls.

I'd say he can, given that he can return shots that destroy walls.

Date can send humans into the sky. According to Konomi, Winter of Danji can send up to 5 people into the sky.
For some reason, Oni cannot send his opponents into the sky. Yet I wouldn't say Oni is weaker in power than Date.

So there has to be some difference in wording.

Date hits his opponent directly, Oni doesn't.

 

[Ninomiya]

I'd say he can, given that he can return shots that destroy walls.

Since when did returning a shot make you capable of the same feat in PoT? It never has.
There are those who can return Rai but can't bust holes in rackets.
Oni returned the move and wrecked Byoudouin's face. The wall was fine.

Date hits his opponent directly, Oni doesn't.

Hitting shots directly at the opponent make no difference.
Example:
Byoudouin's shot that totally floored Tokugawa, is the same shot Ryoga effortlessly hit back.
Byoudouin's move only floored him, and then wrecked a wall.
Date's move sent Kawamura flying whilst Tokugawa sorta tanked the move since he is up and running like normal.
Byoudouin & Oni's most powerful moves in their match just scarred them for life. Nobody was sent flying anywhere.

Does this mean that the next level up from sending your opponent to the sky is scarring them for life?

Sanada's Black Aura shot tore Yukimura's headband and bust through the gate.
Tanegashima's racket is perfectly fine.

 

[-Ken-]

Except it does.
Kawamura has a 5 in Power. He can hit 108th Hadoukyuu. Its highly likely that what he hit against Ban was not a Hadoukyuu, but Kawamura isn't retarded and its extremely likely he screamed 108th Hadoukyuu because it was a shot he could genuinely hit.
So since Kawamura and Tooyama are both a 5 in Power, it shows there likely is a difference between the two words.

Oni can shatter wrists, but for some reason he can't shatter walls.
Byoudouin can shatter walls. At that time, it was still hard to confirm who was the stronger player in terms of Power.

Date can send humans into the sky. According to Konomi, Winter of Danji can send up to 5 people into the sky.
For some reason, Oni cannot send his opponents into the sky. Yet I wouldn't say Oni is weaker in power than Date.

So there has to be some difference in wording.

I don't get it. If we establish that Stats doesn't include special move, then how would simply looking at stats shows anything then? What you can do is looking at the special move, and discuss their effect. What you can say is that if someone with higher power use the exact same power move, then the one with higher power should be able to hit it harder.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

Hitting shots directly at the opponent make no difference.
Example:
Byoudouin's shot that totally floored Tokugawa, is the same shot Ryoga effortlessly hit back.
Byoudouin's move only floored him, and then wrecked a wall.

Byoudonin shot hit Tokugawa body, while Ryoga hit it with his racquet.

Date's move sent Kawamura flying whilst Tokugawa sorta tanked the move since he is up and running like normal.

Different person. If Tokugawa take the same move and doesn't get flying it'll be a point.

Byoudouin & Oni's most powerful moves in their match just scarred them for life. Nobody was sent flying anywhere.

Because they are not power player?

Sanada's Black Aura shot tore Yukimura's headband and bust through the gate.
Tanegashima's racket is perfectly fine.

Racquet is fine because of Tanegashima technique, which is out this world, by the way. I'll be surprise if Yukimura can apply the same thing to his headbrand. And as I say before, body =/=racquet. In Prince of Tennis, racquet=nuclear weapon.

 

[Phantron]

In Prince of Tennis, racquet=nuclear weapon.

It's also very useful as a survival tool as shown by Oni in his flashback. In a future zombie apocalyse or similarly messed up world, just remember to always have your racket and a healthy supply of tennis balls (though people with X-ball techs don't need as many).

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't get it. If we establish that Stats doesn't include special move, then how would simply looking at stats shows anything then? What you can do is looking at the special move, and discuss their effect. What you can say is that if someone with higher power use the exact same power move, then the one with higher power should be able to hit it harder.

I was talking about there being a difference to the two words. Not the difference between the power of the two moves.
Konomi had Gin say himself that Mountain Storm was a more dangerous move than 108th Hadoukyuu anyway.

Byoudonin shot hit Tokugawa body, while Ryoga hit it with his racquet.

Different person. If Tokugawa take the same move and doesn't get flying it'll be a point.

Fair enough.

Because they are not power player?

Hakamada sent Tooyama around the court. He isn't a Power Player either.
So it isn't simple.

Racquet is fine because of Tanegashima technique, which is out this world, by the way. I'll be surprise if Yukimura can apply the same thing to his headbrand. And as I say before, body =/=racquet. In Prince of Tennis, racquet=nuclear weapon.

Can't argue with that.
There's still more to be explained with the concept of powerful moves.
Like... How do we measure the most powerful shots?
Some shots scar you for life, some shatter walls, some shots send you into fences OR over fences etc.

 

[-Ken-]

I'll like to discuss BJK. We know that Taira/Hara got dominated by it that they can't do anything and therefore Momoshiro solo them both.

Before, we were taking random guess at how can a person return it. We know that Kintarou can return it, so let's look at his stat. His power is 5 and Technique is 4, so it look like a combined power and technique of 9 can return BJK.

Then, let's look at Taira/Hara, whom we can confirm cannot return it. Hara has power of 4 and technique of 3, making a total of 7. Taira has power of 4, and technique of 4, making a total of 8. If you look at this, I would assume that combined power and technique of 8 is insufficient to return BJK.

That's what I got so far. If any of it doesn't make sense, or if anyone want to throw some more things in, be my guest.

 

[Phantron]

I'll like to discuss BJK. We know that Taira/Hara got dominated by it that they can't do anything and therefore Momoshiro solo them both.

Before, we were taking random guess at how can a person return it. We know that Kintarou can return it, so let's look at his stat. His power is 5 and Technique is 4, so it look like a combined power and technique of 9 can return BJK.

Then, let's look at Taira/Hara, whom we can confirm cannot return it. Hara has power of 4 and technique of 3, making a total of 7. Taira has power of 4, and technique of 4, making a total of 8. If you look at this, I would assume that combined power and technique of 8 is insufficient to return BJK.

That's what I got so far. If any of it doesn't make sense, or if anyone want to throw some more things in, be my guest.

I think you got to factor in the special move rating too. Presumably Kintarou used his special move because it wasn't possible to return BJK using a normal rally, similar to how Momoshiro had to use BJK to return their tech because his normal rallies aren't strong enough. This isn't the same as their technique because for example Yukimura has a technique of 6 but doesn't have techniques that knock people in the air. Of course we have no idea what the special moves rating are but it's pretty safe to say BJK is one of the more dangerous physical technique too.

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

Random thought came to me as I looked at Tokugawa's stats (4.5 on all) and re read the part about his flashback about how he underestimated the Japanese U17 camp and got crushed by Byodouin. His problem is clearly that he thought your tennis stat was measured between 1 to 5. When he joined the team I'm guessing he'd have to be around 4 stats all and must have figured it's only a matter of time before he hit 5 on all and become unstoppable, until he realized 5 isn't the highest the stat can go.

 

[redhairSH]

I think you got to factor in the special move rating too. Presumably Kintarou used his special move because it wasn't possible to return BJK using a normal rally, similar to how Momoshiro had to use BJK to return their tech because his normal rallies aren't strong enough. This isn't the same as their technique because for example Yukimura has a technique of 6 but doesn't have techniques that knock people in the air. Of course we have no idea what the special moves rating are but it's pretty safe to say BJK is one of the more dangerous physical technique too.

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

Random thought came to me as I looked at Tokugawa's stats (4.5 on all) and re read the part about his flashback about how he underestimated the Japanese U17 camp and got crushed by Byodouin. His problem is clearly that he thought your tennis stat was measured between 1 to 5. When he joined the team I'm guessing he'd have to be around 4 stats all and must have figured it's only a matter of time before he hit 5 on all and become unstoppable, until he realized 5 isn't the highest the stat can go.

I don't know if Tokugawa underestimated the U17 camp, the only person he lost to was the number 1 U17 player of the 1st string, I think he really just overestimated himself, and I'm guessing either his stats were lower than 4 when he joined, or they're really higher than 4.5 now, in the time between the court 3 and 5 shuffle and the genius 10 challenge, 11 days, Tezuka's overall stats went from 19 to 23.5, shiraishi from 17.5 to 20, and atobe from 18.5 to 23.5, so I'm sure that after Tokugowa's mountain training last year and the entire year since then, his stats went up by more than just .5 in each area, so he was either a lot weaker to begin with or his true power is hidden