Battle Killua vs Phinks

Phantron

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The speed of lightning is somewhat an exaggeration, but it's not much of an exaggeration. When Killua beat the fish guy, his opponent perceives him to be moving at FASTER than the speed of light because that's the only way his action ought to be possible. Note that Killua, in typical HXH fashion, also lied about his ability (because it's entirely possible the fish live long enough to tell someone else about his ability) to make it seem weaker than it is. Cross referencing against similar materials of characters who are so fast that they can make an attack faster than the speed of thought, you still get that Killua's speed has to be at least measured in multiples of the speed of sound. Besides, even if he is somehow not very fast, the fact that he is faster than the speed of thought renders defense irrelevent. You can't guard or even think about reinforcing the area he's attacking by definition so you're still doomed no matter what.

Killua's ability is likely designed against the Royal Guards who have unfathomable endurance and resilence to maiming attacks. Indeed, we see Shoot tried the exact same thing, and used his similarly hax ability, as his damage is equivalent of a flea and yet he still took an eye off Yupi. Unfortunately, Yupi can simply get more eyes and is obviously more than capable of withstanding any human level strength attack with a standard Ken. Likewise, Killua used the 'remove eyeball' strategy on Pufu's clone, and even if it was the real Pufu the result will still be the same (Pufu isn't going to use Ken to block Killua's attack with his eyeball). Of course that too was useless since Pufu can regenerate his clones. Yet such an attack would be instant game over against a human. The stuff after the Ant arc would put Killua at only around 200 MPH. But ask yourself, how can someone who can only move 200 MPH possibly be so fast that Yupi has no chance of reacting against? That's only twice the speed of a fastball that an ordinary human can definitely react against (not necessarily successfully, but you can definitely make some kind of reaction). No, when Killua fought the Royal Guards he has to be moving at multiple of speed of sound because otherwise they'd have just swat him down like a fly, but having that kind of speed makes further conflict with Killua against any human character completely meaningless. A guy that's significantly faster than Netero can't possibly lose against other humans. So Kanmaru was retroconned to be no faster than a sports car.

---------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------

Togashi is horrible with concrete numbers and I see this translates if you try to actually follow the nonsensical speed comparison of the story.

Netero was presumably an extremely powerful person even before he embarked on a training that is described as unthinkably devoted. After all that crazy training, when he finally completed it is said that his fist have surpassed the speed of sound. This means that the culmination of incredible talent and unthinkable training is that you can punch faster than the speed of sound. Further, when you say you finally surpassed X, it generally means you just surpassed X. That is, from a figure of speech it makes almost no sense if you say 'I finally surpassed the speed of sound' and your speed is Mach 2. You'd think if you could do Mach 2 you'd have surpassed the speed of sound quite a while ago unless there's some mechanism that more than doubled your speed overnight. Netero's speed increase gradually until he finally surpassed sonic speed, and since that's the reference point it cannot even be Mach 2. It's most likly Mach 1.(small). What does this get him? A guy whose supremacy as the strongest human being that's unchallenged for decades.

Now of course I know we also have stuff like Leol claim to be able to throw a trident at sonic speed, and that people dodge bullets that travel at around Mach 0.8 (according to Wikipedia) with ease. Somehow, rather than getting the conclusion that Togashi has no clue what speed is, people got the conclusion that people in HXH all operate at supersonic speeds, even though Netero's claim to the undisputed strongest man of HXH was because he broke the sound barrier.

And Killua's speed was mistaken for lightspeed, which is close to a million times the speed of sound. Of course his opponent greatly overestimated him, but this tells us that a sonic speed human (only one exists, Netero) would still be too slow to stop this attack that Killua managed to stop. It doesn't matter what trick he used to pull it off. The point is that his apparent speed can be mistaken for lightspeed, or a million times faster than a guy who was the strongest human for decades due to his speed alone.
 

Demonspeed

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I repeat, Killua doesn't move at lightning speed but he has ligtnning speed reflexes. You are saying yourself that his speed is 200 MPH, sonic speed 768 MPH. So, why would he be the fastest? To catch the dart with normal reflexes you need lighspeed, but to catch it when you know where it will hit, you need lightning speed reflexes. He would have fled with Alluka without problem. The fact that Bono has sonic speed attack is more than enough to prove that.

It was said Netero reached the speed of sound thanks to his training but, he was most likely not a Nen user. He wasn't using aura in these flashbacks, his opponents too, he was just punching, not even working on his Ren or anything. The Amori brothers talked about speed here and here. Netero's feat is incredible because, by reaching sonic speed with his insane training, he became a "superman" like Gon, Killua and many persons nowadays. He is the proof you can get stronger with a lot of efforts and Meruem respected him for that.

After learning Nen you have the potential to become a "superman" and it's not easy to learn unless you use the quick methods. Netero, was just a regular human, who reached the "superman realm" with intensive training only. He was not a Nen user.
 
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KingOfNight

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What? Killua is definitely not scared of Illumi anymore. Even Tsubone said he could take him in a fight now. Also Illumi is the biggest glass cannon in the entire series. He got his arm crushed by Gon b4 he could even use nen, he would get torn to shreds by kanmaru.
If he wasn't scared of him, he wouldn't be running like hell to get away from him and talking to him with most respect. Tusbone said he wouldn't lose to him, but that's simply in terms of potential. Illumi was 100% sure he and Hisoka could kill Killua without any trouble. That "glass cannon" made a joke out of most of the Zodiac.
 

Phantron

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If he wasn't scared of him, he wouldn't be running like hell to get away from him and talking to him with most respect. Tusbone said he wouldn't lose to him, but that's simply in terms of potential. Illumi was 100% sure he and Hisoka could kill Killua without any trouble. That "glass cannon" made a joke out of most of the Zodiac.
Even if Killua has no power whatsoever, with Alluka on his side he can instantly kill anybody in the world of HXH without breaking a sweat. Killua has an unreasonable fear of Ilumi because otherwise he'd have just have instantly killed Ilumi or use any number of ways to neutralize with the power he has access to. No human can possibly withstand the speed of Kanmaru, and that's not even all that powerful compared to the things Alluka can do.

People need to stop taking the judgment of guys who are overconfident, like Hisoka, at face value. Ilumi still think he can control Killua after finding out Killua has infinite wishes. Silva, on the other hand, immediately called off the quarantine after finding out the same thing. Does this mean Ilumi is more powerful than Silva? No, it means Silva has enough common sense to realize that he can't possibly defeat a God, while Ilumi apparently thinks he can challenge a God. A completely normal human would wipe the floor with Ilumi just having Alluka on your side. Silva finally realized his mistake at the end, namely trying to control a God is futile, but apparently a lot of people never figured this out. The tag team of Hisoka and Ilumi literally has a mismatch of the century against Killua and the all-powerful Alluka, and I think Togashi does share a lot of blame for somehow making it look like it's possible to lose with unlimited Dragonballs on your side.
 

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Illumi knows very well that Killua won't make any wish to kill him, because it means that the whole Zoldyck (and maybe even Gon) would end up dead. So his fear of Illumi isn't unreasonable. It doesn't matter how fast Kanmaru is, it's useful for escape purposes only.
 

Phantron

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Illumi knows very well that Killua won't make any wish to kill him, because it means that the whole Zoldyck (and maybe even Gon) would end up dead. So his fear of Illumi isn't unreasonable. It doesn't matter how fast Kanmaru is, it's useful for escape purposes only.
Um, you're saying this from Ilumi's viewpoint, which is fine except it's also turns out to be totally wrong, as Killua pays absolutely nothing for wishing unlike others. So basically Ilumi is fearless because he is ignorant. Sure, a fool is often very brave. Doesn't mean he's right. From Killua's or a neutral point of view, there's no reason for him to be afraid whatsoever. Even if Ilumi is somehow incomprehensibly more powerful than Killua, none of that matters when you factor in Alluka who is godlike compared to anyone else.
 

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At that time, Killua himself stated that he could kill the whole family, didn't he? It was only later that he could wish without any drawbacks.
 

Demonspeed

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If he wasn't scared of him, he wouldn't be running like hell to get away from him and talking to him with most respect. Tusbone said he wouldn't lose to him, but that's simply in terms of potential. Illumi was 100% sure he and Hisoka could kill Killua without any trouble. That "glass cannon" made a joke out of most of the Zodiac.
It's kinda funny to think Illumi is a glass cannon while we know he endured the same training as Killua. Amori Brothers weren't able to hurt Killua, Illumi must be more durable. It was just to show that Gon is a genius and that you mustn't annoy him, he hadn't even trained but was able to break his arm. After that, Illumi understood that Gon would be a future menace, this is why Hisoka threatened him.
 

Phantron

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At that time, Killua himself stated that he could kill the whole family, didn't he? It was only later that he could wish without any drawbacks.
No, that'd only be an issue if he was using Alluka. He never have to repay anything for using Nanika, and he was never going to be able to repay Alluka for the 3 demands had he used Alluka to cure Gon (the task would've been impossible). Therefore we know Killua planned on using Nanika all along, and he had Nanika while inside the room he was confined, which means unless Silva or someone can kill him before he finished talking, there was no way anybody could've stopped him. Since he was able to threaten his family into releasing him, it was clearly not possible to have killed Killua before he was finished talking. Instead of going through the convoluted loop of threatening his mother, he could've just said, "Teleport us to middle of nowhere", and then teleport Gon there, heal him, and then erase everyone's memory. Suffice to say it's pretty darn trivial to deal with any human when you've the power of a God on your side.
 

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Well, regardless of what he could've done with Alluka on his side. It doesn't change the main point. And that he's not above all humans in the series. Not even close.
 

tupadre97

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If he wasn't scared of him, he wouldn't be running like hell to get away from him and talking to him with most respect. Tusbone said he wouldn't lose to him, but that's simply in terms of potential. Illumi was 100% sure he and Hisoka could kill Killua without any trouble. That "glass cannon" made a joke out of most of the Zodiac.
Oh really? So Illumi wanted to kill Killua? Im pretty sure he was pissed when Hisoka suggested they should. Anyway he didn't know about kanmaru at that point so of course he thought he could win. And even though he's a glass cannon that doesn't mean he can't fight or you know, dodge or block.

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

It's kinda funny to think Illumi is a glass cannon while we know he endured the same training as Killua. Amori Brothers weren't able to hurt Killua, Illumi must be more durable. It was just to show that Gon is a genius and that you mustn't annoy him, he hadn't even trained but was able to break his arm. After that, Illumi understood that Gon would be a future menace, this is why Hisoka threatened him.
Arm crushed by pre-nen Gon=glass cannon.
 

Flex151285

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In Zoldyck family , black hair gen have weak physics compare silver hair gen
Who have same ideal?
 

Mylesime

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I think that the bond betwin killua and alluka is way more complex than what you make it sound, that works the both ways if killua can use freely his siblings power it 's because he doesn't want to use it in the first place, and more importantly he doesn't want to hurt , to exploit nanika/alluka, during the election arc he didn't use nanika/alluka to harm anyone, he doesn't want to make hit do anything "bad", he healed gon and tsubone and teleported illumi that's all he did. If killua used to wish in order to kill people, to gain expensive or rare items ,etc he wouldn't have such an access.

And again killua's power is not as hax as the technique's name make it sound. He improves his nerves impulses, so in terms of reflexes almost nobody can match him (meruem could certainly), so there's no way to outspeed him, handle him in hand to hand fights (cf vs yupi), but that does not mean he moves at lightning speed, nor that this is a plot hole from togashi. He can make mistakes, for example the fact that killua didn't know anything regarding name, except the name and the technique itself of his grand father.......
But killua is far from invincible. He moves fast, but although his reflexes are enhanced witch improves his speed (he transcends the limits of the nerve system) but he's still made of flesh and blood, his body isn't made of lightning. So the fact that his speed is actually estimated at 200 mph isn't necessarly an error. And knowing that aura canbe moved at very high speed, knowing that killua's speed his physically limited by his flesh, there his ways to preevently protect the fatal areas if his opponents has a certain level.

Witch is the case of phinks who has also way more aura, his a natural high level enhancer, and he's for sure way more performant physically (base speed, strenght, endurance,etc). Killua should'nt be able to pass phinks ren decisively.
 

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Oh really? So Illumi wanted to kill Killua? Im pretty sure he was pissed when Hisoka suggested they should. Anyway he didn't know about kanmaru at that point so of course he thought he could win. And even though he's a glass cannon that doesn't mean he can't fight or you know, dodge or block.
Not wanted, but knows he and Hisoka can. Kanmaru wouldn't have helped. The butlers saw it, and weren't impressed, at least not enough to think it will help against Illumi. Killua himself knew that. He wasn't guarding his hand with Nen. As it was stated several times in the series (Gon Vs Genthru and Killua Vs Sub), if your opponent has more Aura than you, you wouldn't be able to deal any significant damage. And considering Illumi's monstrous Aura, he's definitely not a glass cannon.
 

tupadre97

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In Zoldyck family , black hair gen have weak physics compare silver hair gen
Who have same ideal?
Not really. Its just that black haired zoldycks are manipulators and white haired ones are transmuters so they are usually stronger.

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

Not wanted, but knows he and Hisoka can. Kanmaru wouldn't have helped. The butlers saw it, and weren't impressed, at least not enough to think it will help against Illumi. Killua himself knew that. He wasn't guarding his hand with Nen. As it was stated several times in the series (Gon Vs Genthru and Killua Vs Sub), if your opponent has more Aura than you, you wouldn't be able to deal any significant damage. And considering Illumi's monstrous Aura, he's definitely not a glass cannon.
Arm crushed by pre-nen Gon=glass cannon.
I guess you didn't see my second post above.
 

mousiehamster

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He's not a glass cannon it just so happens that Togashi hadn't thought of Nen and the characters' respective power levels at the time.
 

Demonspeed

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Oh really? So Illumi wanted to kill Killua? Im pretty sure he was pissed when Hisoka suggested they should. Anyway he didn't know about kanmaru at that point so of course he thought he could win. And even though he's a glass cannon that doesn't mean he can't fight or you know, dodge or block.
Arm crushed by pre-nen Gon=glass cannon.
I have a question for you. Why do you think Illumi considered killing him after that? He said he was dangerous, and it was because he was able to destroy his arm without training. It's impossible to be a skilled Nen user and be a glass canon in HXH unless your physical condition is extremely weak or maybe if you have conditions. Illumi, who has endured the Zoldyck traditional training can't be a glass cannon.
 
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The Invertroid

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I'm pretty sure Illumi could have stopped Gon from breaking his arm at that time, but didn't care enough to make a scene. It really shows you how messed-up Illumi is that he could be so apathetic about having his arm broken. :hmph

Illumi saw Gon as a future threat mainly due to his closeness to Killua. His potential to grow stronger was only a secondary concern.
 

mousiehamster

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Sure i guess so.
He's a manipulator so that puts him a certain distance away from reinforcement but we've seen that even conjurer-specialists like Kuroro can take emission blasts to their backs (from Zeno, no less) so perhaps the differences between the nen categories are overstated by Togashi. Real glass cannon characters are the sort that have some supreme ability and are only balanced out by their frailty. Examples include: Meleron and Cheetu. The ability to control somebody isn't imo considered a supreme ability. Shalnark considered himself replaceable in contrast to Pakunoda and even the kissing manipulator who got squashed in York Shin could mind control someone.
 
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