Discussion Detailed Power Ranking and commentaries

[Ninomiya]

Luffy wins against him, but I don't see many others winning. He seems like more or less around the level of Admirals, though probably a bit lower since they are masters of CoA haki. Enel's supercharged CoO isn't a substitute for CoA.

I've always agreed with this.
But there are a few who in theory can win.
I forget how Lightning clouds work, but do they come from Steam or Smoke?

I always saw Enel as somebody at Vice-Admiral level at the very minimum, he could still pull of a win against Zoro or Sanji at this stage in the story.

 

[weixiaobao]

One Piece Power ranking

Update: Mihawk, Vice Admiral Onigumo, Shanks, Fisher Tiger is now move to speculation. Oars Jr and Wiper are now under discussion.

Ask about 2-3 characters at a time per post, it take freaking forever to reply to ya. Beside I am writing why they are at where they are anyhow. And please try not to ask the same questions again. Lastly, THINGS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITH MORE EVIDENCES. This isn't the bible (oh wait they revise that shit too).

Characters from this arc and main characters are subject to change. I put them in the ranking but their position should be revise afterward. We can talk about those characters after they had a big fight. As for DD, we will wait until DD vs Luffy match.

OMG, speculation meant subject to change. It is just place there out of pure speculation. Hence there is little evidences for them. I usually do that so I know these guys exist. I WILL NOT CHANGE THESE GUYS UNTIL THERE IS A PROPER BATTLE FOR THEM.

For example Mihawk: one could argue well he fought Shanks in equal term, another would say well he fought Vista pretty shortly and pretty equally. Both can be use as evidences but very little evidence. I leave them in speculation because someone will come along and ask where is Mihawk???

Pre meant pre timeskipped. Gura Blackbeard meant Gura Blackbeard pretimeskipped before he is a Yonkou.

The gap between C+ and C is very small. But I had to split them up because it was so big and won't fit the screen for screen capture.

By all meant, this isn't perfect but yeah. If anybody has a question, feel free to ask. As discussion starts and as the story progress, there will be change to the ranking. Though for now, just to heard you guys opinion. Is anything felt out of place?

Since people ask, there it is:
S: Gold Roger, Prime Whitebeard, and maybe Prime Garp
Only a few guys hence I didn't want to cut and paste. If Prime White Beard is here so no Old White Beard can't be here

To generate discussion, I supposed I will attempt to explain my system. But that will take a lot of time. So I will begin with 1 tier at a time.
B- : Surpassing the Supernovas Tier

Spoiler

Supernovas are super rookie of the paradise half of the Grand Line. I imagined them as the lowest notorious tier in the new world. Using the Pacifista as standard, members of the B- tier should defeat the Pacifista comfortably. B- just so happened to be the lowest tier of the vice admiral and shichibukai. I imagined weak vice admiral like Maynard should belong here.

So who are actually here? The Punk Hazard Dragons had been described as much stronger than the Pacifista. Then there is the post skipped middle trio. Of which, Franky is somewhere in between a B and B-. Robin's abilities are instantaneous. Her giant forms offer much needed power boost. Plus the cloning thing is kinda very useful. Brook on the other hand had shown to be much faster than most of the C+ tier. Combine with his undead durability, unblockable musical skill, and a physical prowess that rival pre skipped Zoro and Ryuuma.

This tier is also home to many of the logia like preskipped Crocodile and Smoker, Enel, Caesar Clown, and Monet. The Supernovas tier (C+ and C) fell into two categories: 1) without haki to harm logia or 2) with haki but physical stats are too low to harm these logias. Crocodile could be argued to be a tier lower due to his water weakness. However the dude had shown amazing physical feats during the war; his dry abilities pretty much counter his weakness and not very easy to defend again. Same thing can be said about Smoker except his fighting abilities is the bane against DF users. The tier also included powerful lower New World elites like Sai and Ideo.

C+ : Supernovas tier part 1

Spoiler

The Supernovas tier used to be a giant list with a broad range of power level. But I decided to split the supernovas into C+ and C to narrow them down. The gap between C+ and C is tiny. Some people in C+ can be arguing to be in C; likewise, some in C can be in C+. But both groups I believe should be able to survive in the New World.

The real standard for C+ is the Pacifista. Anyone on this tier can put up a long fight with the cyborg. They may win/lose at the end of a long long long match. The top 4 strongest preskipped supernovas are here (Kid, Luffy, Drake, and Law). I am undecided on Hawkins because we saw so little of the guy. Rob Lucci is just a bad ass and arguably could kill half of the preskipped supernovas. Caribou is the new wave of supernovas and on top of that he is logia. But I just can't put him on B- because: 1) he is an idiot and 2) his logia power is not that impressive. People can certainly outrun him and or destroy the ground that he is on to impede him. Can you imagine any other logia users can be trapped in a barrel? (Wiper can certainly kill him, but we have to consider everyone on a tier).

The legendary Fisher Tiger is somewhat disappointing but he did one kick KO a rear admiral. The Funk Brothers combination had been said to kill pirates over 100 million berries but being one hit KO by Sai isn't very pretty. Commodore Yarisugi is also on here for beating Coribou. And captain Tashigi had incorporated Rokushiki and Haki in her swordsmanship plus being the right hand woman of Smoker. At her best, she is somewhere at the middle trio strength. But mostly, she seemed like an incompetent idiot that the weak trio could more than put up a fight with her.

Speaking of the weak trio, Usopp and Chopper may/may not be able to defeat preskipped Luffy but they are at the level to give him tremendous difficulty. Hyouzou, the strongest sword man on fishman Island, had a few impressive feat. Undoubtly he is stronger than Hody before the pills. The princes also quite powerful putting down giant sea monsters like it is nothing.

Newcomers to the list are the Donquixote family, Baby 5 seemed quite impressive but her non bomb form is quite vulnerable to physical attacks. Likewise the old hag Jora/Jola has an extremely hax devil fruit but her physical stats are not on par. But given that she had some endurance feat, I feel okay placing her here.

 

[Roarchu]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Personally, I'd put Old WB one league (A++?) above Akainu and the other admirals. He was stabbed through the stomach and fought thousands of marines including vice-admirals before beginning his fight with Akainu. His health + the stab got to him and Akainu took the chance and wounded him badly. EVEN AFTER THAT he gave Akainu a serious beating. Old WB is A++ is what I'd say. I'm not making a case for the others, but I do think he was above Akainu and Aokiji (who may or may not be the same as Rayleigh, Shanks, etc).

Or wait, are you also making little sub-rankings by whose names you write on the top? cuz maybe then that makes more sense to me..

EDIT: Ok, I see that you are even putting smoker and vergo in the same league. I guess it makes sense then. I just didn't know how broad the range of power levels were included in each letter grade or w/e

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Ok, I see that you are even putting smoker and vergo in the same league. I guess it makes sense then. I just didn't know how broad the range of power levels were included in each letter grade or w/e

Pretty broad... Some are broader than others. Beside at the A+ tier, there is a lot of guess work. I meant we haven't seen most of the Yonkou in action yet.

As you can see I didn't bother putting Gold Roger and Prime Whitebeard on there.

 

[Jabman]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I'd put doflamingo in the A+ group.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I'd put doflamingo in the A+ group.

Reasons? Feats?

It would be in poor sport if Luffy kicks his ass by the end of this arc. Luffy is heading to the B+, he is still not in the same league as Akainu, Aojiki, and Kizaru. At best Doflamingo is an A-

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

What I don't get is how Mihawk is firmly placed in the A+ while three of the Yonkou and Dragon himself are only speculative? How is he ranked above Marco, and how is Marco ranked on the same level as a pre-Gura BB? Why is Prime Chinjao ranked alongside Vista and Jozu, and above DD? And how is Vista two ranks below Mihawk when a battle between the two at the War at Marineford was at a draw before it was interrupted? What possessed you to place Squardo on a list with DD? The B rank seems to be a hodgepodge of individuals who really don't seem to belong on the same list, and B- seems even more random. After that it seems mostly good with some glaring oddities like Tashigi's placement, or the Pacifistas', or Wiper's, and a few others. Some levels are broad, others very limited, and some seem somewhat random and purely based on popularity sprinkled with lots of speculation, although a lot of those names are individuals we have very limited knowledge about and it becomes somewhat difficult to place them.

 

[KingOfNight]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I'd put WB on a league of his own. An S group for him. I'd take Mihawk and Prime Shiki out of the A+ group. Pre-Gura BB should be below Marco, and Zephyr as an old man is relatively weak. I wouldn't put Chinjao with Jozu. The B+ group is a chaos. How come DD and Oars. Jr are in the same league? And John Giant and other VAs on the same league as Ace and BB? And especially Squardo, he's completely out of place.

But that's my take on the list.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Sorry if I sound annoy, I just woke up. If I had write this later on the day, I wouldn't be this annoy >__<. I am grateful for the questions.

What I don't get is how Mihawk is firmly placed in the A+ while three of the Yonkou and Dragon himself are only speculative?

Very simple, there is little to 0 feat from him. Go ahead and made a Big Mam vs Dragon thread. Is Dragon belong in A+, sure. Most likely he is. But I got no evidences beside hypes and the story structure.

How is he ranked above Marco, and how is Marco ranked on the same level as a pre-Gura BB?

Pre stand for preskip, not pre Gura. Certainly pre timeskipped BlackBeard is not the same as post time skipped Blackbeard.

Why is Prime Chinjao ranked alongside Vista and Jozu, and above DD? And how is Vista two ranks below Mihawk when a battle between the two at the War at Marineford was at a draw before it was interrupted?

Well Aojiki and Jozu was a draw, Crocodile and Jozu was a draw if they were like interrupt like 5 minutes into the fight. The chance of Mihawk being here is great. Until there is evidences otherwise, like he got his ass kick by DD. Where do you think Prime Chinjao is? And what do you think of his splitting continent feat? DD and Luffy are shady as bad. We have to wait until the end of this arc to decide where they are.

What possessed you to place Squardo on a list with DD?

Hmm, he is in speculation. Because there is no feat from him, beside it seemed WB pick him in commanding position out of all of the allies. They are both in speculation. If they are not in speculation, and I permanently pace them somewhere like Prime Chinjao then we can talk. As you can see, we can't even talk about how Jozu and Chinjao relate to Doflamingo because I still have DD in speculation.

The B rank seems to be a hodgepodge of individuals who really don't seem to belong on the same list, and B- seems even more random. After that it seems mostly good with some glaring oddities like Tashigi's placement, or the Pacifistas', or Wiper's, and a few others. Some levels are broad, others very limited, and some seem somewhat random and purely based on popularity sprinkled with lots of speculation, although a lot of those names are individuals we have very limited knowledge about and it becomes somewhat difficult to place them.

Wait until my explanation. Didn't you read my explaination for B-??
Tashigi had soru and haki and is the right hand of Smoker. If the Boa sisters shown post skip feats they may very well stronger than Tashigi. But right now, I placed her as stronger than Boa sisters pre skipped. One could said Tashigi did a poor job with Monet, or a decent job with Monet.

Wiper?? Wiper was shown to be equal in capacity with a near supernovas Luffy (100 million berries he need just 1 million berries). He has weapons that destroy DF users and mobility of a top notch fighter. Perhaps he can't take down the stronger supernovas. But he certainly can make the rest run for their money.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------

I'd put WB on a league of his own. An S group for him.

I had an S tier on Excell, but it was on another page. Hence I forgot to include it, only 3 people belong there (Prime White Beard, Gold Roger, and maybe Prime Garp. So no, old and decline health White Beard don't belong there. And it is rather tedious to made an S- just for him.

I'd take Mihawk and Prime Shiki out of the A+ group. Pre-Gura BB should be below Marco, and Zephyr as an old man is relatively weak. I wouldn't put Chinjao with Jozu. The B+ group is a chaos. How come DD and Oars. Jr are in the same league? And John Giant and other VAs on the same league as Ace and BB? And especially Squardo, he's completely out of place.

If more people share the concern, I will move Mihawk to speculation until we see a proper match. That is pretimeskipped BB that just acquire gura fruit, there is a blackbeard with just his original fruit. And then there is yonkou Blackbeard which is place at speculation along with other Yonkou. There are two Chinjao. His continent splitting is as impressive as Jozu. Beside if I place Prime Garp as S, then this prime Chinjao is fine where he is.


I don't know if I should include semi canon people like Z. He is all over the place in term of feats (remember the ending of that movie taking all those people).

John Giant had shown to be in charge of the head quarter since like early One Piece (up course there higher up than him but it seems he is de facto vice admiral). Giant + haki. hmmm... He is just unfortunate to go up against White Beard and be such a huge target. Read my reply on Squardo (but he is in speculation people heck even John Giant). Speculation meant there is no evidences for him anywhere. I will just speculate and put them there for now.

Unlike those 2, Oars Jr. is not speculation. So what is your problem with him among the non speculations?

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Very simple, there is little to 0 feat from him. Go ahead and made a Big Mam vs Dragon thread. Is Dragon belong in A+, sure. Most likely he is. But I got no evidences beside hypes and the story structure.

If it was purely feats, Mihawk wouldn't be ranked above a host of individuals with superior showings. Mihawk has no feats that would place him amongst the individuals he's grouped with. Jozu is ranked two levels beneath Mihawk, yet his feats go beyond Mihawk's, including stopping Mihawk's strongest slash to date.

Pre stand for preskip, not pre Gura. Certainly pre timeskipped BlackBeard is not the same as post time skipped Blackbeard.

Okey-dokey. Although, even wielding Whitebeard's fruit, I question his standing alongside Marco. I guess in general I just think Marco should be on the level above.

Well Aojiki and Jozu was a draw, Crocodile and Jozu was a draw if they were like interrupt like 5 minutes into the fight. The chance of Mihawk being here is great. Until there is evidences otherwise, like he got his ass kick by DD. Where do you think Prime Chinjao is? And what do you think of his splitting continent feat? DD and Luffy are shady as bad. We have to wait until the end of this arc to decide where they are.

So why is Mihawk ranked two levels higher? Chinjao should be, in my mind, a level lower. His bounty at his peak was comparable to some of the original supernovas, and Garp's quick handling of him was pretty embarrassing. I can't imagine Jozu or Vista getting man-handled by anyone like that.

Hmm, he is in speculation. Because there is no feat from him, beside it seemed WB pick him in commanding position out of all of the allies. They are both in speculation. If they are not in speculation, and I permanently pace them somewhere like Prime Chinjao then we can talk. As you can see, we can't even talk about how Jozu and Chinjao relate to Doflamingo because I still have DD in speculation.

I don't even know why you'd speculate about him. He isn't worth much of a mention. Even with some speculation, there is some basis for everyone's placement, be it reputation, standing, or rank. And it just seems illogical to have his name next to DD's.

Wait until my explanation. Didn't you read my explaination for B-??
Tashigi had soru and haki and is the right hand of Smoker. If the Boa sisters shown post skip feats they may very well stronger than Tashigi. But right now, I placed her as stronger than Boa sisters pre skipped. One could said Tashigi did a poor job with Monet, or a decent job with Monet.

I read your explanation, but I just don't get how Enel, Moriah, Monet, and pre-skip Smoker end up on the same level. That just doesn't make much sense to me. And the rank above (B) is just an exhaustive list that seemingly covers such a broad range of abilities, and some individuals stand out, like Bartolomeo. The issue with Tashigi is that she's on a list with current SHs and some of the pre-skip Supernovas, and Fisher Tiger amongst others; that entire rank just seems mixed up. It seems to be even more the case when you notice the Pacifista on the list. How is that the Pacifista is ranked the same as pre-skip Luffy, when it took the entire SH crew to bring one down.

Wiper?? Wiper was shown to be equal in capacity with a near supernovas Luffy (100 million berries he need just 1 million berries). He has weapons that destroy DF users and mobility of a top notch fighter. Perhaps he can't take down the stronger supernovas. But he certainly can make the rest run for their money.

Really? Wiper was as good as pre-skip Zoro and Sanji, or any of the other Supernovae. You even have CP9, Coribou, and current Nami. I know Wiper was popular, but what did he show to suggest that he could take on these individuals. Wiper showed up long before the end of Paradise, and some of the SHs were already superior to him.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Okay, I will move Mihawk into speculation but it is a pain in the ass here because of screen capture so I gonna just include an update that is all instead of physically change the picture. I won't move him down, like I say in a reply to another person with the same question. His feats are all over the place considering his supposedly being an equal match to Shanks. Unlike DD, who seemed to crap his pants over Kaidou. (Never mind, that statement, DD is cool).

Hmm, look where I placed prime Garp and then compare to where I place prime Chinjao. I have the theory for a while that his head is actually the weak spot.

Well, I still gonna keep him there in case someone ask where is such and such character >___<. Beside speculations are harmless anyway.

Enel, Moriah, Monet, and pre-skip Smoker, they are on the same level because they could beat the people below them but mostly lost to the people above them. That is the simplest explanation I could give you. There is a case to be make to get Enel higher. But Enel is such a controversial characters. No one seemed to agree on his physical stats.

Simple, if you remove the rest of the strawhats, Luffy can still put up quite a fight with the Pacifista. Read my explanation for C+ since I just put it up. At the war, Luffy can actually KO giants easily. Luffy is not a sitting duck like some of the supernovas. So there is a combination attack on the part of the monster trio. So what, if he can do a Gatling in Giant form, it should cover that. In fact, he didn't even use some of his stronger attack pre skipped. Like the one he used on Moriah.

I think you misunderstanding people on the same tier. They don't have to be fight in a draw. Because then there would be a million ranks. Wiper is comparable to other people on that tier and not just Sanji and Zoro. Even with Sanji and Zoro, he should put up quite a fight consider his stats. Zoro doesn't seemed to be that much stronger after Enies Lobby. After Thriller Bark, he just became weak with injury. His peak was Thriller Bark. Up course Wiper may lost (most likely lost) to someone like Zoro, but he should have a much harder time beating Wiper than said the idiots Kumadori and Fukuro. In fact, I want to put Blueno higher. But Oda was so awkward about his portrayal of Blueno (that number system kinda ruin it).

 

[KingOfNight]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I had an S tier on Excell, but it was on another page. Hence I forgot to include it, only 3 people belong there (Prime White Beard, Gold Roger, and maybe Prime Garp. So no, old and decline health White Beard don't belong there. And it is rather tedious to made an S- just for him.

Old and sick, but still leagues ahead of anyone that comes as his second. I think having Akainu in the same tier is just not right.

If more people share the concern, I will move Mihawk to speculation until we see a proper match. That is pretimeskipped BB that just acquire gura fruit, there is a blackbeard with just his original fruit. And then there is yonkou Blackbeard which is place at speculation along with other Yonkou. There are two Chinjao. His continent splitting is as impressive as Jozu. Beside if I place Prime Garp as S, then this prime Chinjao is fine where he is.

I don't know how impressive that continent splitting thing when he got one shotted so shamefully by Garp.

Unlike those 2, Oars Jr. is not speculation. So what is your problem with him among the non speculations?

How could you put him on the same level as DD, when the latter just laughed him off as he dismembered him? Heck, you ranked him above Kuma, who one-shotted him with ease...

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

We are beating a dead horse here. Just take it as I put the high ceiling on A+ tier with weak WhiteBeard, if someone stronger than weak WhiteBeard, they go to S. Alright, there is not much to argue. Prime Garp (S) or almost Prime Garp (S-) is still 3 tiers above Prime Chinjao. >__< so yeah.

Oars Jr., did that guy even attempt to fight? He is just one of those idiot, he didn't really try to fight them except he try to get DD at the end. Kuma's attack was super super slow. The dumbass think he can tank it, and he did tank it. That brain dead Kuma probably wouldn't get out of the way if Oars Jr decided to punch the guy multiple time. Pacifista body of Kuma cannot handle the damage that Oars Jr if he decided to unleash on him. He broke through one of the wall.

Again, DD is still in speculation. He still can be in A-. Please don't just read what I reply to you. Because people are asking about the same thing, read what I reply to the other guy too.

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------

And no the tier range are not all equal. The goal is to group characters together and not create 200 freaking tiers.

 

[KingOfNight]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Well, given Kuma's speed(or teleportation if you really wanna be detailed), he isn't likely to be hit by any of Oars. Jr slow attacks. Kuma's Ursus Shock looked slow in the Anime, in the Manga however, it was almost instantaneous. He just couldn't dodge.

I actually think that DD seems fine in the B+ group, if you'd just remove Oars. Jr and put Onigumo in speculation, it will be quite good(the non speculation part at least).

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Well, given Kuma's speed(or teleportation if you really wanna be detailed), he isn't likely to be hit by any of Oars. Jr slow attacks. Kuma's Ursus Shock looked slow in the Anime, in the Manga however, it was almost instantaneous. He just couldn't dodge.

I actually think that DD seems fine in the B+ group, if you'd just remove Oars. Jr and put Onigumo in speculation, it will be quite good(the non speculation part at least).

Please reply like this. See, it get to the heart of the matter rather quickly. I think that I will agree with Onigumo, and as for Oars Jr. I will think about it since I am doing the dishes. I may ended up either put him in a tier lower and or move him to speculation.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Enel, Moriah, Monet, and pre-skip Smoker, they are on the same level because they could beat the people below them but mostly lost to the people above them. That is the simplest explanation I could give you. There is a case to be make to get Enel higher. But Enel is such a controversial characters. No one seemed to agree on his physical stats.

Enel has always been somewhat debatable because of some obvious inconsistencies. But its not just Enel, but Moriah. I know many think him weak compared to the other Shichibukai, but there is little chance that he is on the same level as Monet or pre-skip Smoker, let's just keep it real.

Simple, if you remove the rest of the strawhats, Luffy can still put up quite a fight with the Pacifista. Read my explanation for C+ since I just put it up. At the war, Luffy can actually KO giants easily. Luffy is not a sitting duck like some of the supernovas. So there is a combination attack on the part of the monster trio. So what, if he can do a Gatling in Giant form, it should cover that. In fact, he didn't even use some of his stronger attack pre skipped. Like the one he used on Moriah.

The SH crew were almost completely wiped out by a single Pacifista, and it took the combined might of a group of Supernovae to oppose another. I find it extremely difficult to accept that any of those individuals could then be said to be on the same level as a Pacifista.

I think you misunderstanding people on the same tier. They don't have to be fight in a draw. Because then there would be a million ranks. Wiper is comparable to other people on that tier and not just Sanji and Zoro. Even with Sanji and Zoro, he should put up quite a fight consider his stats. Zoro doesn't seemed to be that much stronger after Enies Lobby. After Thriller Bark, he just became weak with injury. His peak was Thriller Bark. Up course Wiper may lost (most likely lost) to someone like Zoro, but he should have a much harder time beating Wiper than said the idiots Kumadori and Fukuro. In fact, I want to put Blueno higher. But Oda was so awkward about his portrayal of Blueno (that number system kinda ruin it).

I understand that its not about matchups, but some of the individuals are clearly out of their leagues, while others seem to be underestimated. Wiper, although possibly equal in level to the Sanji and Zoro of the Skypiea arc, shouldn't be considered to be on the same level as them after they increased their abilities significantly in subsequent arcs prior to the timeskip. And I don't see how one views Wiper as equal, much less superior, to the members of CP9; they were just better in almost every aspect.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Enel has always been somewhat debatable because of some obvious inconsistencies. But its not just Enel, but Moriah. I know many think him weak compared to the other Shichibukai, but there is little chance that he is on the same level as Monet or pre-skip Smoker, let's just keep it real.

so 2 questions since obviously we are using the same standard:

1) So Enel and Moriah, do they belong in B? I could make a case for Enel but not so much Moriah
2) My standard is that everyone on B- should be able to beat a pacifista almost 100% of the time unless a freak accident. Base on that standard, is my logic still right by that I meant even the low ceiling like Crocodile and Smoker can beat everyone in C+ and C.
3) This is a statement. Here is the deal you have a problem with how broad B- is, but moving people to C+ and or B, it will do the same effect of broading in other tier. I just happen to refer my standard for B-

The SH crew were almost completely wiped out by a single Pacifista, and it took the combined might of a group of Supernovae to oppose another. I find it extremely difficult to accept that any of those individuals could then be said to be on the same level as a Pacifista.

Again, I state that Pacifista is the high ceiling for that A+. >___< everyone on B- should be able to beat a Pacifista.

I understand that its not about matchups, but some of the individuals are clearly out of their leagues, while others seem to be underestimated. Wiper, although possibly equal in level to the Sanji and Zoro of the Skypiea arc, shouldn't be considered to be on the same level as them after they increased their abilities significantly in subsequent arcs prior to the timeskip. And I don't see how one views Wiper as equal, much less superior, to the members of CP9; they were just better in almost every aspect.

You have the strongest case here. But you need to provide me much more specific evidences that indeed Wiper is weaker than people below him.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

so 2 questions since obviously we are using the same standard:

1) So Enel and Moriah, do they belong in B? I could make a case for Enel but not so much Moriah
2) My standard is that everyone on B- should be able to beat a pacifista almost 100% of the time unless a freak accident. Base on that standard, is my logic still right by that I meant even the low ceiling like Crocodile and Smoker can beat everyone in C+ and C.
3) This is a statement. Here is the deal you have a problem with how broad B- is, but moving people to C+ and or B, it will do the same effect of broading in other tier. I just happen to refer my standard for B-

I think its more likely that some individuals within that group should be moved down, pre-skip Smoker and Monet.

Again, I state that Pacifista is the high ceiling for that A+. >___< everyone on B- should be able to beat a Pacifista.

It's a very high ceiling, considering that it would take the combined forced of three or four of the other individuals within the group to take it down.

You have the strongest case here. But you need to provide me much more specific evidences that indeed Wiper is weaker than people below him.

The Monster Trio are obvious. CP9 members are faster, with better defence and superior offence, and extra abilities to boot. Ryuuma showed himself to be a match for Zoro during the Thriller Bark arc, which should put him quite a bit beyond Wiper. Nami has shown herself to be capable of handling better. The Supernovae showed some of their abilities, and they were clearly beyond Wiper. The giants, I can't imagine how Wiper could compare to them. And in the group below, you have pre-skip Franky, Brook, and Robin, none of whom I could imagine doing anything other than giving Wiper a serious beating.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I think its more likely that some individuals within that group should be moved down, pre-skip Smoker and Monet.

I am not negotiating on this. No one has the capacities of beating pre skip Smoker in C+. Heck pre-skip Smoker could have a go at Enel and Caesar Clown because neither can harm him and he can kick their ass due to his weapon. I spent a lot of time on this of moving him down to C+ even before you brought it up.

It's a very high ceiling, considering that it would take the combined forced of three or four of the other individuals within the group to take it down.

That is why most of the supernovas are not on the Pacifista tier. Didn't you not see that?? You don't need to take down something to be on the same tier. Do you think Drake + Kidd could take down Luffy easily?? Heck no.

The Monster Trio are obvious. CP9 members are faster, with better defence and superior offence, and extra abilities to boot. Ryuuma showed himself to be a match for Zoro during the Thriller Bark arc, which should put him quite a bit beyond Wiper. Nami has shown herself to be capable of handling better. The Supernovae showed some of their abilities, and they were clearly beyond Wiper. The giants, I can't imagine how Wiper could compare to them. And in the group below, you have pre-skip Franky, Brook, and Robin, none of whom I could imagine doing anything other than giving Wiper a serious beating.

Again, I think you are doing straw manning now. Luffy and Rob Lucci are not even on that same tier. Also, saying the middle trio can beat him up is not the same as giving evidences. Franky is way too slow for Wiper. Brook will have to deal with the Burn Boozoka. I am a big fan of Robin's power. But there should be a cap to this. I meant you could argue she can snap captain Kidd and most of the supernovas. >___<

Neither Kaku nor Jabra can fodderize Wiper. I really want to move Blueno up >__< because he would put a very close match against Wiper. Kumadori's Soru is not on par with the others. If Chopper can heavily damage him without going to Monster point, what make Wiper can't especially Wiper is all round better fighter. Fukuro is much weaker than Franky and is only a match to Franky with low Cola.

1) Give me evidences that post skipped Nami can beat Wiper. Heck he can do 360 degree Boozoka to sniff her out from her migrates. And how many people didn't get knock out of her electricity. Even fodders are able to survive that.
2) How would Franky even hit Wiper since his mobility is much better than Geppou. If you can't do this then don't even bother argue for Fukuro.

 

[Fox666]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

The problem with the list is that it seems to use some specific battles (i.e. Ace vs Blackbeard) to measure someone's potential, and not see the whole thing.

- Crocodile: I don't really see a reason to put Crocodile below the other Shichibukai, considering what we have seen. We could say Luffy was lucky in Arabasta, because during the battle in Marineford we have seen him matching opponents which Luffy didn't stood a chance.

- Ace: For all we have heard and seen, his power is close to that of the Admirals. Personally I would go with him being on the same level as Marco. He shouldn't be that low just because he lost to Blackbeard.

- Blackbeard: His power prior to the timeskip is overrated. We have seen him being being put to shame several times, even after he gained the Gura Gura no Mi, his whole crew was being put on check by Sengoku alone.

- Enel: Easily close to the admirals in power. He lost because his ability didn't worked on Luffy.

- Rob Lucci: Underated. Even Bartholomew Kuma said they didn't expected he would be defeated.

- Most of the Vice-admiral are overrated. While some of them are super strong, that doesn't apply to the group as a whole for what we have seen. I.e. Doflamingo playing with Stainless and Mozambia, the Vice-admirals in Ennies Lobby praised Rod Lucci's power, Momonga and Dalmatian of them couldn't kill an weakened Luffy in Marineford, Maynard was beaten by Maynard, etc.

- Fujitora: I don't see a reason to put him below the other Admirals.

- I believe it was implied that Arlong was much stronger than Krieg or anyone else in East Blue.

I also would recommend to put the likes of Shanks or Mihawk under "speculation".