Match Doubles instead of knockout singles

[floman]

Well, the Mutsu pair isn't in a pinch back then. So the pinch condition is not meet. So unless Niou can syncho anytime with anyone off pinch, which he can't, otherwise he would have done it since the beginning with Atobe, I think it's correct to say he didn't syncho with the same Mutsu.

So if they do synchro in a pinch Niou will be hurt right? If they synchro when Niou is hurt it won't be the same as with Atobe.

Shiraishi+ Kenya > Yagyuu+ hurt Yagyuu

 

[Kaoz]

So if they do synchro in a pinch Niou will be hurt right?

No, not necessarily. Tachibana and Chitose didn't have any injuries when they first synchro'd for instance.

 

[floman]

I'm specifically talking about Niou here. If he imitates Tezuka then he will get hurt and only at that point where he is hurt will be in a pinch.

 

[-Ken-]

So if they do synchro in a pinch Niou will be hurt right? If they synchro when Niou is hurt it won't be the same as with Atobe.

Shiraishi+ Kenya > Yagyuu+ hurt Yagyuu

Well, injuries that Niou had is sustain. If Niou can syncho before he is injure, he won't be hurt.

But anyways, like I say, I am unsure that he can syncho to begin with. He only have 1 prior that he syncho as his partner, and that was when he syncho with Atobe. Syncho isn't a guarantee. During the time that he syncho as the twin/golden pair, he's copying someone who can syncho already. Yagyuu cannot syncho already, unlike them, and so this situation would be closer to the one with Atobe.

 

[Ninomiya]

So if they do synchro in a pinch Niou will be hurt right? If they synchro when Niou is hurt it won't be the same as with Atobe.

Shiraishi+ Kenya > Yagyuu+ hurt Yagyuu

Why would you assume that though?
Ochi/Mouri = Atobe + Extremely hurt Atobe. And Ochi/Mouri's stats are BOTH superior to Atobe's.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest Shiraishi/Kenya > Synchro!Yagyuu/Hurt Yagyuu.

Considering injured Atobe by himself who has worse stats than both Mouri or Ochi was able to go equal with them without using a special move once until the final point.

unlike them, and so this situation would be closer to the one with Atobe.

But Niou becoming Yagyuu is something he'd mastered for an extremely long time. So I think it isn't as close to the situation of Atobe as you think.

All this discussion doesn't even matter because Kenya and Shiraishi cannot defeat ZSS/TPhantom.
They first have to tackle their way through the TZ + Curving Laser combo.
So if by chance after a few games they adapt to the laser combo since there are two of them it may be easier, they still have to deal with TZ.
Shiraishi/Kenya cannot win.

The Tezuka Zone was only used in one point against the G10.

That's because he only had ONE need to use it since Mouri returned ZSS once but in Doubles his method of returning is useless.
So Ochi/Mouri were helpless against ZSS so there was no need to bring out TZ on his serve afterwards.

Ochi/Mouri are superior to Niou in Power, Mental and Technique so the way they outrally Niou likely makes TZ difficult.
Shiraishi/Kenya are NOT superior in Mental and Technique to Niou. Or Yagyuu in fact. Both Niou and Yagyuu have better Tech.
So there will be no outrallying.
Firsly, you need to stop acting like Shiraishi/Kenya are as good as Ochi/Mouri.

Now that those two abilities are gone you are left with Tezuka Phantom + Laser Combo

I would argue that Kenya is more than fast enough to return the laser combo.

Based on what? Why are we assuming Kenya can predict where it will land consistently? Does he have some kind of amazing Mental stat?
I'm sorry but his Speed isn't flawless. He couldn't predict much against Shiraishi clearly in their tie-break as Shiraishi won 7-3 so his Speed won't save him.
Yagyuu has 17 in base stats and Kenya has 18.
There isn't much between them at all. In fact, Yagyuu has better Tech and in Doubles it changes everything so the wild assumption that Kenya is fast enough to sprint to the left of the court, then sprint to the right of the court all in time is a bit off.
Considering Oishi/Kikumaru were useless against the ordinary laserbeam and the best they could his hit it into the net.
Why Kenya should be able to do better by himself I don't know.

Niou spamed Tezuka phantom for maximum 15 points before his arm gave in.

Well then, that's at least 2 comfortable games taken in addition to the two guaranteed games that ZSS takes that's already 4.
Curving Laser will definitely take a game. Not mentioning the fact that Niou could just use TZ with Yagyuu intercepting at the net since Yagyuu is a Serve & Volley player it's really Niou's game.

Nou again only used Hyaruken once in his match against Fuji not even against the G10.

At that point, Niou had many moves that Fuji couldn't counter.
When Fuji brought out CE + Cord Ball, he countered quite a few moves like Saiki and Hyakku Ren all in one so Niou had no reason to bring it out again.
Niou's arm wasn't even close to any pain sort of limit at Nationals. Also, Hyakku Ren minimizes fatigue so I doubt its really going to drain him.

I think this match is entirely dependent on synchro, Niou Tezuka can get an early lead, but he will most likely injure himself if he does.

No. I need you to explain what Shiraishi and Kenya will use to get a guaranteed 5 games like Niou/Yagyuu can to even make this a game that goes down to being dependent on Synchro.

ZSS is definitely not returnable in this match but it doesn't matter because it only will happen once every four games and can only be used about 7-8 times

Actually like I've said before, Niou has a bunch of moves in arsenal.

I would argue that even if Niou was injured and at the net and somehow ended up synchroing with Yagyuu because they were in a pinch it would still not make a difference. Yagyuu is not Atobe even if Niou is determining the opponents weaknesses from the net Yagyuu cannot hit into their blind spots and he only has laser and curving laser which will be shut down.

Ochi/Mouri have 25+24 in total stats. Atobe has 23.5
Ochi/Mouri = 49 in other words. So one team has 49 points against Synchro!23.5 yet they were equal in ability.
This makes your argument very invalid. It means that Synchro!17 of Yagyuu against 38 combined total of Shiraishi/Kenya isn't even a given.

Especially when its likely Niou won't be pushed into the same situation as he was against Ochi/Mouri again because Ochi/Mouri are simply better than Shiraishi/Kenya.
We saw Kenya against Hara/Taira who have 20 in their stats and Kenya was just outclassed like total bitch.
Where as Fuji who has the same total in stats as Kenya probably wouldn't have been outclassed like that against Hara and I can bet on that.
Kenya really is in the swimming in the same water as players like Yagyuu.

 

[-Ken-]

All this discussion doesn't even matter because Kenya and Shiraishi cannot defeat ZSS/TPhantom.
They first have to tackle their way through the TZ + Curving Laser combo.
So if by chance after a few games they adapt to the laser combo since there are two of them it may be easier, they still have to deal with TZ.
Shiraishi/Kenya cannot win.

I think that you're severely overrating the Yagyu/Niou pair. I already give my explanation on why curving laser combo is easier to seal than gyro laser combo in the past. You can seal both laser at the net 100%. And you can seal it really even half way past the court 100% too, since they share the same route. I would say they share the route until end court, but there's 2 evidence and so that one is just 50/50% that they share route until the end court. Something that can be seal the same way as the normal shot for sure 100% half way past the court and 50% at the end court is just not frightening to me.

Not to mention that Kenya huge forte is speed. I think Yagyuu is not bad, but Kenya is just a bad match for Yagyuu. The deciding factor will be how the pair fair against Niou, not Yagyuu laser combo.

 

[Hardy]

So, Kikumaru (one of the best players at the net) couldn't do anything to the Laser back in the day, and now the combo is easily sealed? We haven't seen anyone seal it so far, in fact, Niou got tricked by it and lost in his tie break match.

 

[floman]

Ochi/Mouri have 25+24 in total stats. Atobe has 23.5
Ochi/Mouri = 49 in other words. So one team has 49 points against Synchro!23.5 yet they were equal in ability.
This makes your argument very invalid. It means that Synchro!17 of Yagyuu against 38 combined total of Shiraishi/Kenya isn't even a given.

Especially when its likely Niou won't be pushed into the same situation as he was against Ochi/Mouri again because Ochi/Mouri are simply better than Shiraishi/Kenya.
We saw Kenya against Hara/Taira who have 20 in their stats and Kenya was just outclassed like total bitch.
Where as Fuji who has the same total in stats as Kenya probably wouldn't have been outclassed like that against Hara and I can bet on that.
Kenya really is in the swimming in the same water as players like Yagyuu.

It's a long post and I'm trying focus on getting my work done so I will start from the bottom and work my way up.

Basically what you did with that math is give me a perfect way to show you that the reason they won is because Atobe was synchroed with Niou. If it was anyone else it would been different.

The Mutsu Twins have a total of 42 as their stats and synchro, yet they are not considered at par with the G10. If you think that this is unfair to say, because maybe the Mutsu twins hadn't challenged the G10 (which is really unlikely), then Washio and Suzuki (who are not even on the first court) have a total of 38 with synchro yet they aren't even considered close to first string level. If for some reason you think Washio and Suzuki could win against the G10 "doubles expert" then fine. Finally the golden pair have a total of 31 in stats with synchro. If you are saying that the golden pair are G10 level then I don't think anyone will agree with you. This makes your argument very invalid.

Niou saw the weaknesses from up close and Atobe used Atobe Kingdom to hit directly to them.

We have seen Yagyuu play one match and one point. We have seen Kenya play once and one point. The only person we have seen Shiraishi play is Fuji who he completely outclassed till the fifth counter. It's an opinion as to how good Kenya is compared to Yagyuu since we don't have much information on either. I'm simply speaking from the time in which Oishi was able to successfully seal the laser. If oishi can do it, Shiraishi can do it in his sleep. The curving laser may be effective, but with his new speed, in my opinion, Kenya should be able to run around the court without having to predict where it is going to go as his balance will allow him to move freely. However, this is just speculation but so is saying that they are in a different class.

Also Ochi/ Mouri are definitely better than Shiraishi Kenya but they are also better than Niou Yagyuu.

 

[Hardy]

The Mutsu Twins have a total of 42 as their stats and synchro, yet they are not considered at par with the G10.

Because Ochi and Mouri were both doubles specialists, Kimijima has negotiations and Tohno has the best tech stat of any player so far (except, prolly, Oni, Ryoga and Byoudouin).

I really don't see why there's so much discussion about this. Yagyu is around or even better than Kenya's level. Niou is definetly better than Shiraishi. We know that the Rikkai guys frequently play doubles with each other (the Shiten guys, not so much). Niou/Yagyuu going synchro doesn't sound too crazy for me, it's still an option (and I think it would happen if they are in a pinch, otw I don't know how Atobe synchroed himself -except for the fact that he's an ego-). Even if they couldn't synchro, I don't see why they would need it. Imo Yagyuu/Niou win this.

 

[-Ken-]

So, Kikumaru (one of the best players at the net) couldn't do anything to the Laser back in the day, and now the combo is easily sealed? We haven't seen anyone seal it so far, in fact, Niou got tricked by it and lost in his tie break match.

Kikumaru adjusted to it, and he can answer the 1st laser that he see. The reason he hasn't completely adjusted to the real laser is because Niou trick him by having 2 different laser. If Yagyuu use his laser from the beginning, it'll be different story. And Kenya and Shiraishi is in a completely different league than Kikumaru, are you kidding me? In fact, the fact that Kikumaru can seal Niou laser and can almost seal Yagyuu if not for a trick should mean that Kenya and Shiraishi who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kikumaru can seal it for sure.

If laser combo alone can beat Kenya and Shiraishi, Kaidoh who have better laser combo must be god tier by now.

---------- Post added at 06:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 AM ----------

I really don't see why there's so much discussion about this. Yagyu is around or even better than Kenya's level.

Not really.

Niou is definetly better than Shiraishi. We know that the Rikkai guys frequently play doubles with each other (the Shiten guys, not so much). Niou/Yagyuu going synchro doesn't sound too crazy for me, it's still an option (and I think it would happen if they are in a pinch, otw I don't know how Atobe synchroed himself -except for the fact that he's an ego-). Even if they couldn't synchro, I don't see why they would need it. Imo Yagyuu/Niou win this.

Atobe syncho is a case of its own. It's the only case that Niou syncho with his partner as the one who doesn't know how to syncho already. If the Rikkai pair win, it'll be due to Niou and not Yagyuu. Yagyuu is extremely overrated.

 

[Ninomiya]

The Mutsu Twins have a total of 42 as their stats and synchro, yet they are not considered at par with the G10. If you think that this is unfair to say, because maybe the Mutsu twins hadn't challenged the G10 (which is really unlikely), then Washio and Suzuki (who are not even on the first court) have a total of 38 with synchro yet they aren't even considered close to first string level. If for some reason you think Washio and Suzuki could win against the G10 "doubles expert" then fine. Finally the golden pair have a total of 31 in stats with synchro. If you are saying that the golden pair are G10 level then I don't think anyone will agree with you. This makes your argument very invalid.

...
I'm saying that Shiraishi/Kenya ARE NOT Ochi/Mouri. Making your point just as invalid.
Although I see your point on the Atobe thing. In fact, Atobe going equal with Ochi/Mouri due to a Synchro boost is pure bs now that I look back at it. That was without question a bullshit win. Atobe got wiped but the boost provided from his player on the floor at the net changed the game entirely? bs.

Also Ochi/ Mouri are definitely better than Shiraishi Kenya but they are also better than Niou Yagyuu.

You don't say. That was never in question. The issue was you assuming Shiraishi/Kenya could handle Niou in a similar fashion to how Ochi/Mouri did. Which is absurd.

 

[Kaoz]

I don't think it's necessarily correct to describe a doubles pair's total as the sum of the individual players, only one of them can hit the ball at any given time after all. Of course, court coverage becomes easier in doubles, but that's something I'd probably attribute to an independent value as it can also vary a lot given the pair's chemistry and isn't only reliant on the individual players' skills.

 

[Ninomiya]

Kikumaru adjusted to it, and he can answer the 1st laser that he see. The reason he hasn't completely adjusted to the real laser is because Niou trick him by having 2 different laser. If Yagyuu use his laser from the beginning, it'll be different story.

We don't know how different though.

And Kenya and Shiraishi is in a completely different league than Kikumaru, are you kidding me? In fact, the fact that Kikumaru can seal Niou laser and can almost seal Yagyuu if not for a trick should mean that Kenya and Shiraishi who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kikumaru can seal it for sure.

This was back at Regionals however and Yagyuu now has two shots to spam.

If laser combo alone can beat Kenya and Shiraishi, Kaidoh who have better laser combo must be god tier by now.

About that, we don't know the extent of who it can defeat though. We don't know how much better it actually is.
The best person that Kaidoh's Gyro combo beat was Yanagi. Who has a base stat of 18.
Yagyuu feat was against Niou. Who has a base stat of 18. The same as Yanagi.

So really, I don't know how far you're willing to hype up Kaidoh but it needs to toned down.
I'm not saying Laser combo alone can beat them, but it will definitely work if it beat Niou who has a base stat of 18 and Kenya also has a base stat of 18.
So you can lower the value of Yagyuu all you like. The manga is currently against you on this one.

Not really.

In terms of attacking, what does Kenya have that is going to beat Yagyuu?
They are 1 stat apart, and Yagyuu has the better Tech. Honestly, its not like there is much between them. You can exaggerate all you like but Yagyuu is far from weak.

Atobe syncho is a case of its own. It's the only case that Niou syncho with his partner as the one who doesn't know how to syncho already. If the Rikkai pair win, it'll be due to Niou and not Yagyuu. Yagyuu is extremely overrated.

... Well for example, Kaidoh is extremely overrated. He has a worse base stat than Yagyuu.
In fact, I want to know HOW you think Yagyuu is overrated. Yagyuu has practically the same combo as Kaidoh and it is arguable which is harder to hit back actually, since the same method Oishi Territory used would be the same way to seal an extremely fast straight shot.

For instance, Kenya is extremely overrated. He took 3 points of Shiraishi, and THAT is where all his hype is coming from? In terms of attacking, what does he really have? He's fast, yet its clear Speed doesn't do much for you if you have low Tech in this series.
A 5 in Speed isn't so great in SPoT, or rather its exagerrated.
Kamio has a 5 in Speed, so you want to tell me that whilst Base!Niou with 18 in stats is helpless against Curving Laser, measly Kamio can handle it?
When on earth did Kenya become some guy able to sprint in one direction at top speed then turn direction and chase the ball effortlessly and consistently?

Even when we see him get caught out by a basic drop shot by Shiraishi in the tie-break, implying that Kenya can't run one direction then turn and chase the ball when he notices he made the completely wrong prediction.

Seriously Ken, I just need to understand from you why Kaidoh and Kenya aren't overrated and why Yagyuu isn't.
And why Yagyuu will be some kind of weak link in this match when Kenya has done nothing notable and is better by one stat point which would be Speed I guess.
But then again low Speed becomes much less relevant in Doubles anyway.

 

[Hardy]

And Kenya and Shiraishi is in a completely different league than Kikumaru, are you kidding me? In fact, the fact that Kikumaru can seal Niou laser and can almost seal Yagyuu if not for a trick should mean that Kenya and Shiraishi who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kikumaru can seal it for sure.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

First of all, I can understand Shiraishi being way better than Kikumaru... but Kenya? Kenya might have 1 more point in speed, power and mental, but in the end his playstyle is all about speed. Eiji has a lot more to offer, and if Kenya has to run around for an entire match, Kikumaru should have the upper hand (as his stamina is superior). In the end, I see it as a close match, far from "a complete different league".

Second, I'm talking about ability at the net. Kikumaru's reactions, movements and balance there are surely better than Kenya's. I'm not even doubting that. Shiraishi (as the monster he is) might find a way to fight against the Laser Combo (not seal it completely), sure, but Niou won't just stand there.

Not really.

...yes really, lol.

How is Yagyuu an overrated character? Every time he had to play, he showed how good he is (beating the GP and Niou, fair and square, being clearly superior in both cases) . He's actually underrated and doesn't have enough screen time.

Do you see Kenya beating Niou in a tie break match? Cause I certainly can't.

 

[-Ken-]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

First of all, I can understand Shiraishi being way better than Kikumaru... but Kenya? Kenya might have 1 more point in speed, power and mental, but in the end his playstyle is all about speed. Eiji has a lot more to offer, and if Kenya has to run around for an entire match, Kikumaru should have the upper hand (as his stamina is superior). In the end, I see it as a close match, far from "a complete different league".

Just because a player have tons of move doesn't make them better. Kenya lose to Shiraishi 7-4 when 4 counter Fuji got whoop 5-0 and 40-0. Kikumaru was never near Fuji. And yes, I'm saying Kenya is better than 4 counter Fuji.

...yes really, lol.

How is Yagyuu an overrated character? Every time he had to play, he showed how good he is (beating the GP and Niou, fair and square, being clearly superior in both cases) . He's actually underrated and doesn't have enough screen time.

Do you see Kenya beating Niou in a tie break match? Cause I certainly can't.

He didn't beat GP "fair and square". He hit Kikumaru in the head. And also have to resort to switching player and not having the player hit the ball be same with the judge announcement in order to have Kikumaru eye getting use to a wrong laser speed. And Yagyuu beating Niou without illusion doesn't mean anything. No Illusion Niou was getting crap by Fuji so much that the only thing you can tell about him is that he's a horrible player wiithout illusion. Niou's only strong with Illusion.

Kenya beating Niou? No, but I can see him beating Yagyuu.

 

[Ninomiya]

Just because a player have tons of move doesn't make them better. Kenya lose to Shiraishi 7-4 when 4 counter Fuji got whoop 5-0 and 40-0. Kikumaru was never near Fuji. And yes, I'm saying Kenya is better than 4 counter Fuji.

It was 7-3 Ken. 7-3.
In case you forgot, Fuji then handed Shiraishi a 6-0 whooping straight afterwards as they went into tie-break.
Honestly, I don't know how Kenya would do against 4thCounter. Kenya's Tech isn't so great. Considering the likes of Hirakoba has the exact same Tech as Kenya and he was astounded by it.
Kikumaru VS Kenya really isn't the sort of match where someone is going to get their ass-kicked at all. Like... At all. Kenya's attacking let's him down here.

He didn't beat GP "fair and square". He hit Kikumaru in the head. And also have to resort to switching player and not having the player hit the ball be same with the judge announcement in order to have Kikumaru eye getting use to a wrong laser speed.

The blow to the head wasn't mentioned to have affected Kikumaru through the entire game iirc.
Things like that are just Doubles tactics in PoT... As weird a tactic as it was. Doubles tactics are what makes a pair superior to other pairs.

And Yagyuu beating Niou without illusion doesn't mean anything. No Illusion Niou was getting crap by Fuji so much that the only thing you can tell about him is that he's a horrible player wiithout illusion. Niou's only strong with Illusion.

But that same Fuji that took out Niou 4-0, is the SAME Fuji that destroyed Shiraishi for 6 straight games? So HOW does that make Niou bad?
That same 5thCounter Fuji will slaughter the likes of Kaidoh etc.

Kenya beating Niou? No, but I can see him beating Yagyuu.

With what? Just his Speed? Lol.
Its such an open match between the two its just hard to say who will definitely win.
What I am telling you though is that this series isn't all about stats in this series.

Yagyuu has simply a superior Mental and Tech to Kenya all that lets Yagyuu down is Speed.
Which doesn't matter much in Doubles.

Why you think Yagyuu is underrated still makes no sense.
But to think Kenya in your eyes is some guy able to slaughter him and Kikumaru, that's a bit off.

 

[-Ken-]

It was 7-3 Ken. 7-3.
In case you forgot, Fuji then handed Shiraishi a 6-0 whooping straight afterwards as they went into tie-break.
Honestly, I don't know how Kenya would do against 4thCounter. Kenya's Tech isn't so great. Considering the likes of Hirakoba has the exact same Tech as Kenya and he was astounded by it.
Kikumaru VS Kenya really isn't the sort of match where someone is going to get their ass-kicked at all. Like... At all. Kenya's attacking let's him down here.

Then Shiraishi go back and win. So what? What would 4th counter do against anything Kenya have? He doesn't have a big special shot. And yeah, point still made. If one score a point and 4th counter Fuji can't score a single one, the one who score point is stronger. 5th counter Fuji is in another league, and not the one I talk about. 4 counter Fuji is still Seigaku #2, above Kikumaru.

But that same Fuji that took out Niou 4-0, is the SAME Fuji that destroyed Shiraishi for 6 straight games? So HOW does that make Niou bad?
That same 5thCounter Fuji will slaughter the likes of Kaidoh etc.

It does shows that Niou is not really in the same tier as that Fuji without Illusion. And that same Fuji that crush Shiraishi actually end up losing the match. And considering that Kaidoh combo is shown to work against Renji, whom I am 100% sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Niou without Illusion, that should say something.

With what? Just his Speed? Lol.
Its such an open match between the two its just hard to say who will definitely win.
What I am telling you though is that this series isn't all about stats in this series.

Yagyuu has simply a superior Mental and Tech to Kenya all that lets Yagyuu down is Speed.
Which doesn't matter much in Doubles.

I got page that point out the weakness of Yagyuu laser combo to Kaidoh, and all you got is just saying it'll work. Really, like, wow.

Why you think Yagyuu is underrated still makes no sense.
But to think Kenya in your eyes is some guy able to slaughter him and Kikumaru, that's a bit off.

He's a guy that is shown only able to beat Kikumaru and Oishi whom are both low tier player and still almost lost. He also almost lost to Niou that doesn't shown Illusion. Really, that's not that impressive of a track record. Kenya won't slaughter Yagyuu. It'll be a fairly close match that I think Kenya will come up top 7-5 or 6-4, due to how Kenya style is good for sealing laser. Kenya will probably slaughter Kikumaru, though.

 

[Ninomiya]

I got page that point out the weakness of Yagyuu laser combo to Kaidoh, and all you got is just saying it'll work. Really, like, wow.

And that page was bs Ken. It was far from concrete Ken. That's the issue. Only you felt Kaidoh's was truly superior.
Even though Niou who knows Laserbeam inside out was helpless against it, you still believe Kenya will shit on it.
"Really, like, wow" is my line here.

Did you even read the damn post. I've brought out the stat breakdown. Kenya only has Speed in this situation. Like... That is his only advantage here.
Kenya has the worst Mental and Technique out of the 4 of them. Joint lowest Tech with Shiraishi when compared with Yagyuu/Niou.
Speed alone can never win you a match in PoT in Singles iirc.
Even Kamio needed to bring out Sonic Bullet for instance.

He's a guy that is shown only able to beat Kikumaru and Oishi whom are both low tier player and still almost lost. He also almost lost to Niou that doesn't shown Illusion. Really, that's not that impressive of a track record. Kenya won't slaughter Yagyuu. It'll be a fairly close match that I think Kenya will come up top 7-5 or 6-4, due to how Kenya style is good for sealing laser. Kenya will probably slaughter Kikumaru, though.

Lol, Kenya is guy that has achieved what? 3 points off of Shiraishi?
How did Yagyuu "almost lose"? Laserbeam was never returned properly lol.

Then Shiraishi go back and win. So what? What would 4th counter do against anything Kenya have? He doesn't have a big special shot. And yeah, point still made. If one score a point and 4th counter Fuji can't score a single one, the one who score point is stronger. 5th counter Fuji is in another league, and not the one I talk about. 4 counter Fuji is still Seigaku #2, above Kikumaru.

I just told you what 4thCounter can do to Kenya. Kenya has the same Tech as Hirakoba and he was dumbfounded by 4thCounter.
Kenya isn't suddenly going to become Shiraishi/Niou level and destroy 4thCounter lol.
As if Kenya can suddenly break Kirin Otoshi or Hakuryuu haha

 

[-Ken-]

And that page was bs Ken. It was far from concrete Ken. That's the issue. Only you felt Kaidoh's was truly superior.
Even though Niou who knows Laserbeam inside out was helpless against it, you still believe Kenya will shit on it.
"Really, like, wow" is my line here.

Explain how it's bs? And by that, I mean, explain how the method I mention of breaking the combo is wrong. Go ahead. I don't think it's wrong at all. Sharing the same path for majority of the path is a big flaw. Don't just say BS.

Lol, Kenya is guy that has achieved what? 3 points off of Shiraishi?
How did Yagyuu "almost lose"? Laserbeam was never returned properly lol.

Look like even Kaidoh stand a chance against Niou now, huh? His laser are better than Yagyuu.

Kikumaru almost return laser beam and would have if Yagyuu laser beam was the one use at the beginning of the match. It's even mention in the manga that his eye gotten use to Niou laser speed which is why Yagyuu laser work. That wouldn't be the case if they play singles. And Niou would have return laser beam if it was use. He's facing curve laser, which is never before shown in the series. And techniques in PoT generally, with a very very very few exceptions, work the 1st time it is use. So it got that benefit along with being use on the no illusion Niou.

And well, 3 points off Shiraishi is something that Kikumaru will never archive since the #2 lost almost a match to the Bible without getting a single points. Kikumaru is crap tier in singles. If you think Kikumaru can beat Kenya, that explain everything to me about your thought on Yagyuu as well.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

I just told you what 4thCounter can do to Kenya. Kenya has the same Tech as Hirakoba and he was dumbfounded by 4thCounter.
Kenya isn't suddenly going to become Shiraishi/Niou level and destroy 4thCounter lol.
As if Kenya can suddenly break Kirin Otoshi or Hakuryuu haha

Not really...? Like what, Tech isn't just how much spin you put on the ball. And we already come to agreement that stats=/= move use by characters. If there's not big move to break, how could Kenya be dumbfound by it?

One got point and other one fail. I say 4 counter Fuji, so where does Kirin Otoshi come from? Without the evolve triple counter, Fuji is still above Kikumaru. So him losing while not being able to do anything while Kenya is capable to do something is more than enough proof that he's above Kikumaru. I don't see what's not clear about it.

 

[floman]

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I'm saying that Shiraishi/Kenya ARE NOT Ochi/Mouri. Making your point just as invalid.
Although I see your point on the Atobe thing. In fact, Atobe going equal with Ochi/Mouri due to a Synchro boost is pure bs now that I look back at it. That was without question a bullshit win. Atobe got wiped but the boost provided from his player on the floor at the net changed the game entirely? bs.


You don't say. That was never in question. The issue was you assuming Shiraishi/Kenya could handle Niou in a similar fashion to how Ochi/Mouri did. Which is absurd.

Sorry I must have misunderstood why you were saying my argument was invalid because immediately after you put the numbers in your previous post, you said this makes your argument very invalid.

I definitely felt the same way but a bullshit win is still a win. Just like how Yagyuu beat Niou. I don't understand how that worked. If Yagyuu could outplay Niou then why didn't he play any matches in the finals.

The fact that Krauser was chosen for the team shuffle instead of Kite or Akutsu is also kind of ridiculous. There are some times where teams are made out to be close or way better than another for story line purposes. These are still points that can't be ignored.

I'm not saying that I'm saying that Ochi/ Mouri didn't really do much to handle Niou. Honestly Niou didn't do much other then use the zero-shiki serve to keep his service games and use the Tezuka Phantom when Atobe was mentally assassinated.

Niou only used Tezuka Zone once which was off the zero shiki serve and didn't use hyaruken. So if Niou plays in the same way as he did against Ochi/Mouri, he will get injured again.

If you are suggesting that he will not push himself in the same way because his opponents are not the same caliber as Ochi/ Mouri then I kinda agree with you. First I think Shiraishi can handle Niou!Tezuka. Fuji handled Niou!Tezuka, I think Shiraishi can in the same way.

Shiraishi hit controlled cord balls against the sixth counter. Shiraishi had also come up with counters for each one of Fuji's special shots. I feel as though, having seen Fuji in the finals, he will be able to seal National Niou!Tezuka's special moves in the same way.

After that Niou!Tezuka has the ZSS, which will eventually lead to injury. Even Tezuka phantom is sealed by the cord ball technique, which would also hurt Niou!Tezuka's arm.

Then there is Yagyuu. In my opinion Yagyuu is not as good Kenya in doubles. I feel as Yagyuu's court coverage in the back would be 1000x better than that of Kikumaru in the Kanto Tournament. In this he was able to reach the laser. I think with his speed Kenya will be able to reach a curving laser even if he originally goes in the entire opposite direction of the ball. This is all speculation, but so is saying that Yagyuu will destroy Kenya.

In that way I think in terms of team work Yagyuu/ Niou = Kenya/ Shiraishi and in terms of individual skill Kenya/ Shiraishi > Yagyuu/ Niou.

Now if Niou/Yagyuu were somehow able to synchro without Niou abusing the ZSS and hurting his arm then I would agree that Yagyuu and Niou would win.