Match Doubles instead of knockout singles

[Kaoz]

Kabaji is superior to Kawamura in terms of mental and technique, plus he won't necessarily try to take as large of a swing as Kawamura did, so I doubt he'll just lose to Habu. Hirakoba hasn't been mentioned to have unnaturally flexible wrists, and Kite would have to have those as well then. At the moment I think Kabaji should be able to copy all of Shukuchihou, Giant Habu, Moujuu no you na Aura, Abare Dama though. As for MV, Akutagawa doesn't have to drop it on Hirakoba's half of the court.

Regarding Niou/Yagyuu, first, there is a difference between pain from overusing ZSS/Phantom and getting attacked by Devil Akaya I think. Second, even though Niou got better at using Tezuka's skills, it doesn't seem be quite the same yet. Third, and maybe most important, you can be better against Akaya, but still get trashed if you're careless for a moment. Tachibana experience this and everyone else in Fuji's situation would have. Although this does make Akaya pretty difficult to talk about.
That said, I forgot about that convo between Yanagi and Shiraishi, so yeah, if we're considering Akaya without Devil Mode, they probably don't have a chance of winning.

 

[Ninomiya]

Second, even though Niou got better at using Tezuka's skills, it doesn't seem be quite the same yet.

We saw what he did against Mouri/Ochi? He used ZSS quite a lot,
He spammed TPhantom for what was more than a set comfortably considering they went into a 45+ point tie-break.
It was into the tie-break that he was saying nonsense like "I'm only doing this cause I'm Tezuka".
Tell me why you'd think someone with Yanagi and Kirahara's stats will do better against TPhantom/ZSS than Ochi/Mouri did?
They don't even have a sure-kill like Mach that Ochi.
Niou doesn't even have to be the real deal against Yanagi/Kirihara pair.

Third, and maybe most important, you can be better against Akaya, but still get trashed if you're careless for a moment. Tachibana experience this and everyone else in Fuji's situation would have. Although this does make Akaya pretty difficult to talk about.

Okay this here is just plain underestimating Yagyuu/Niou.
You must have forgotten Niou and Yagyuu are the main culprits for manipulating Devil Akaya in the first place. Yagyuu purposely giving the wrong translation to Kirihara saying the Nagoya regulars called him a "seaweed bastard" and Niou doing something similar against Seigaku.
Niou/Yagyuu have zero fear of Devil Akaya. They enjoy bringing it out of him.
I have no doubt that they know full well how to play against Kirihara's Devil Mode.

Secondly, they're his teammate. Do you ever think that they will be as careless, or anywhere near as careless as Tachibana who had just faced Kirihara for the first time?
That's just underestimating the most conniving pair in MS tennis.

Miyako/Matsudaira just laughed off his Devil Mode. Its not as dangerous as you think against players in his tier or above imo.
That was a long time ago in the story where Kirihara could just trash players genuinely better than him. Nobody is falling for those moments in the U-17 Camp as shown by Miyako.

That said, I forgot about that convo between Yanagi and Shiraishi, so yeah, if we're considering Akaya without Devil Mode, they probably don't have a chance of winning.

Doesn't even matter if Kirihara has Devil Mode or not.
Yanagi and Kirihara shitting bricks at Kaidoh's laser combo.
So Yagyuu's laser combo is more than likely to have a similar effect.
Combined with Nationals!Tezuka, Niou/Yagyuu would have to forget their moves in order to lose to Kirihara/Yanagi.

Combined with the more than likely Synchro if Niou/Yagyuu start to lose, they share vision so getting hit by Devil Akaya seems a lot less likely again.

 

[Kaoz]

He spammed TPhantom for what was more than a set comfortably considering they went into a 45+ point tie-break.

As I've outlined in some other thread, he might have only used it 9 times overall, which isn't enough to carry them through the entire match.

Regarding the Laser combo, that's basically the same as saying that Kaidou would've kept beating them with just that for the rest of the match, which is a view you don't share if memory serves. Also while Tachibana didn't know about Akaya targeting his opponents, Fuji did very well, given that he knew/guessed that it was Akaya who had injured Ryoma's knee.
Miyako and Matsudaira were on average 5 points higher in stats than Devil Akaya, whereas Niou is even and Yagyuu 1 point below, so that comparison isn't necessarily true.

Anyway, like I said, I forgot about the Devil Mode restriction, so until we get further updates on it, I'll change my vote here.

 

[floman]

As I've outlined in some other thread, he might have only used it 9 times overall, which isn't enough to carry them through the entire match.

Regarding the Laser combo, that's basically the same as saying that Kaidou would've kept beating them with just that for the rest of the match, which is a view you don't share if memory serves. Also while Tachibana didn't know about Akaya targeting his opponents, Fuji did very well, given that he knew/guessed that it was Akaya who had injured Ryoma's knee.
Miyako and Matsudaira were on average 5 points higher in stats than Devil Akaya, whereas Niou is even and Yagyuu 1 point below, so that comparison isn't necessarily true.

Anyway, like I said, I forgot about the Devil Mode restriction, so until we get further updates on it, I'll change my vote here.

I feel like Yagyuu and Niou would win even if Kirhara accessed devil mode. Niou could use illusion to become Yagyuu. It would then be Yagyuu/Yagyuu versus Kirhara/Renji. So unless Renji could see through the synchro, I feel like Niou would just become Yagyuu and the pair would automatically win with synchro power.

 

[Kaoz]

Who says that Yagyuu could instantly Synchro with himself? Chances are that they'd still need to be in a pinch in order to access it.

 

[floman]

I thought that if you are the same player you can immediately attain synchro. The Mutsu twins attained synchro without being in a pinch (they are essentially one person).

Then when Niou became one of the Mutsu twins he attained synchro with them (one could argue that that was when they were in a pinch).

In my opinion they would attain synchro as I think it is basically knowing your partners movements at the same time as they do. In that case if Niou can perfectly copy his partner in all aspects, I think that synchro will be attained.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

Also to add on to this, Oishi also attained synchro with Niou (who became Kikumaru) without being in a pinch.

 

[Kaoz]

The twins, Washio/Suzuki and GP had all already mastered Synchro at that point, that's why they can use it at any time. Niou/Yagyuu, or Yagyuu/Yagyuu haven't accessed it at any time, let alone mastered it, so I don't see any reason to believe that they'd be able to.

 

[floman]

What about when Niou synchroed with the twins?

Also then what is the definition of synchro? I think that it means having the same combination and thoughts in mind. If that is the case, the same person would be able to synchro with himself.

 

[Ninomiya]

What about when Niou synchroed with the twins?

Niou became a person that had already mastered Synchro with someone so its the same effect as Mutsu/Mutsu.

As I've outlined in some other thread, he might have only used it 9 times overall, which isn't enough to carry them through the entire match.

Fine I'll leave TPhantom out, although the counter argument is just as valid.

Regarding the Laser combo, that's basically the same as saying that Kaidou would've kept beating them with just that for the rest of the match, which is a view you don't share if memory serves.

True, but it will DEFINITELY take games off of Kirihara/Yanagi. I also said that combined with ZSS + TZ, TZ non-stop with Yagyuu being a Serve & Volley player doing what Atobe the All-Rounder did and leaping forward intercepting the TZ and just taking the point home, will be far too much for Kirihara/Yanagi.
TZ + ZSS + Laser combo + Synchro when forced into a pinch + Hyakku Ren when Yanagi or Kirihara are serving.
Devil Mode or not, Yanagi/Kirihara are up against a huge wall here.

Also while Tachibana didn't know about Akaya targeting his opponents, Fuji did very well, given that he knew/guessed that it was Akaya who had injured Ryoma's knee.

Again, comparing outsiders with Yagyuu/Niou who train with Kirihara daily and also help Kirihara even access his Devil Mode by toying with his mind.
There's no way there gonna get caught like Fuji/Tachibana did. Especially as Fuji admits just after that he was careless.

Miyako and Matsudaira were on average 5 points higher in stats than Devil Akaya, whereas Niou is even and Yagyuu 1 point below, so that comparison isn't necessarily true.

fair enough

 

[floman]

I never thought of synchro like that, I still kind of disagree but I don't have enough evidence to convince anyone else.

Also if there were two Kaidos instead of Kaido/Inui against Kirhara/Renji do you think they would have won?

 

[Kaoz]

@Airgrimes
I can definitely see your side of the argument, and you may be right that I'm not giving Yagyuu enough credit here (I think I'm fair to Niou). However I also feel that you're underestimating Yanagi and Devil Akaya a bit. Like, if you're saying that Niou/Yagyuu won't be careless around Akaya, the same argument could also be made for Yanagi's ability to gather their data for instance, even if Inui couldn't.

 

[Hardy]

I still don't think that Akaya will even turn into his devil form. Not only Yanagi should be able to control him (if he could go into AM is another topic) but I don't think anyone in Rikkai would want Kirihara to go into DM (unless personal traits are not considered, then Niou/Yagyuu win because !DM Kirihara gets a heart attack).

 

[Kaoz]

^Yeah, I think we concluded that a couple posts ago, I had just forgotten about the flashback. I believe right now we're just discussing a what-if scenario.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yanagi's ability to gather their data for instance, even if Inui couldn't.

Yeah, I might be underestimating Yanagi. A habit since he got put to sleep by Mitsuya.

But considering how Sanada commented on how Niou/Atobe was really like Tezuka/Niou in one match, it implies Niou's illusion can even fool the Rikkai bunch so its sort of unclear for now.

 

[floman]

So I think a general consensus has been reached

Block A

Yukimura/Sanada

Jackal/Marui

Block B

Niou/Yagyuu (as Kirhara cannot use devil mode)

Tezuka/Kaidou

Block C

Atobe/ Hiyoshi

Shiraishi/Kenya

Block D

Kintarou/Chitose

Akutsu/Kawamura

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

So the next set of matches will be:

Kintarou/Chitose versus Jackal/ Marui

Akutsu/Kawamura versus Atobe/ Hiyoshi

Tezuka/ Kaido versus Yukimura/Sanada

Shiraishi/Kenya versus Niou/Yagyuu

 

[-Ken-]

Kintarou/Chitose versus Jackal/ Marui

Kintarou stomp. He solo both. Chitose can just sit on the sideline.

Akutsu/Kawamura versus Atobe/ Hiyoshi

This is a harder one. Atobe is the strongest one here, I feel, but I think Kawamura is stronger than Hiyoshi. I'll hold on this one.

Tezuka/ Kaido versus Yukimura/Sanada

This is another hard one. But since black aura is confirm not to be PoP equal, and the user+another ten ball got stomp 6-0, I'm leaning toward Tezuka Kaidoh here. I put PoP users on the same level as the camp's top. Sanada can't steal 1 game from PoP Oni. And some people are viewing PoP Tezuka as equal or greater than PoP Kintarou as well.

Shiraishi/Kenya versus Niou/Yagyuu

This is a hard one... Niou/Yagyuu, I guess. Niou's a pretty strong guy.

 

[Ninomiya]

Niou/Yagyuu (as Kirhara cannot use devil mode)

Wouldn't go that far.
Its still in Niou/Yagyuu's favour regardless of DM or not.
Not enough to suggest DM!Kirihara can suddenly defeat ZSS/TPhantom when ZSS took out Ochi and Mouri(Doubles-only).

Shiraishi/Kenya versus Niou/Yagyuu

This is a hard one... Niou/Yagyuu, I guess. Niou's a pretty strong guy.

Again, Niou can become Tezuka and THEN there is the deadly Laser combo on top of that. Kaidoh has already proven that the laser combo is just deadly.
Its also dangerous since unlike Tornado/Gyro, the Curving Laser combo can land on either side of the court at the speed of a laser.

I don't see Shiraishi/Kenya overcoming the two threats.
Then, there's the fact that once Niou/Yagyuu are in a pinch, Niou can become Yagyuu and enter Synchro.
Niou/Anybody is a deadly pair.

 

[-Ken-]

I don't view Yagyuu as stronger than Kenya, for reason I already stated bunch of time. It's that Niou become close to National Tezuka and I don't see Shiraishi being as good as that.

Also, I don't think pinch=syncho guarantee. It is a possibility, but not certainty.

 

[Philia]

Kintarou/Chitose versus Jackal/ Marui

Both Kin-Chan & Chitose better than Marui & Jackal. They will get an easy victory.

Akutsu/Kawamura versus Atobe/ Hiyoshi

I see Atobe & Hiyoshi taking this by a slight margin.

Tezuka/ Kaido versus Yukimura/Sanada

Yukimura/Sanada pair wins. I've said it before, TMnK shots won't be that hard to reach in doubles match. Kaido will be useless here. He'll probably get yipped faster than nationals Kin-Chan. Its more like Tezuka versus Yukimura/Sanada. And Tezuka's arm will cause him problem. I see Yukimura/Sanada pair winning this, unless(which is likely to happen) One of them sits out & other takes Tezuka alone.

Shiraishi/Kenya versus Niou/Yagyuu

Its a hard one. Fuji overcame nationals Niou/Tezuka. I think Shiraishi can do so too. But if Niou synchros' with Yagyu then its over for the Shitenhouji duo.

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't view Yagyuu as stronger than Kenya, for reason I already stated bunch of time.

Those reasons weren't that strong though. So you shouldn't speak as if the reasons you've stated were concrete and acknowledged by lots of others.
The assumption that Kenya can consistently catch Laserbeam and Curving Laser regardless of where it lands is just a strong assumption.

Also, I don't think pinch=syncho guarantee. It is a possibility, but not certainty.

What more do you people want??
He did it in a Pinch with Mutsu. Twins who he had just met for THE FIRST TIME.
He did it with Atobe in a Pinch. Atobe being the most self-centered MSer in the series.
Why the hell can't he do Synchro in a Pinch with his best friend?

It makes less sense to assume if he was in a serious pinch he couldn't perform Synchro with Yagyuu of all people. Of course he could become Yagyuu in an Illusion.
That's all he even has to do.

Are you saying its easier for Niou to become Kikumaru, Mutsu or Atobe than it is for Niou to become Yagyuu? That's pretty off to assume.