Discussion Detailed Power Ranking and commentaries

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

But we didn't see the battle between the Heart Pirates/Kidd Pirates. We don't know what went down. There is a lack of evidence of this. We know though, that both escaped fine. The Pacifista shocked people because they thought those guys are shichibukai. Like in Marineford, once people actually fight back, the new world pirates did pretty well.

Your strongest argument is that the Pacifista took on the Strawhats crew. It is a valid argument. But all I see is a Pacifista being hit over and over and over and over.
That battle said something about the Pacifista's defense capacity. But not so much as it related to others.

For one, chopper/Nami/Usopp powers compare to the Monster trio is such a huge gap that they really are not matter in this fight. Sure including them would help the strawhats but removing those three wouldn't do much either. Brook barely harm the thing, his contribution to the fight is neglectable.

If Urouge could pummel the thing and cause no visible injuries. Then those 4 are not necessary except for stalling time and diverge attention.

So we are down to 5. Even the final attack can be consider overkill. But it is valid to think that is what Oda want to portray that indeed take the most powerful technique of all three at the same time to destroy the Pacifista. And or just because it looks cool that way.

Zoro at this point was beyond injured and has just a fraction of power that he once has.

I may have to reread that chapter. Unless Oda portrayed that the Pacifista injured these guys at least somewhat. Then maybe your argument is much stronger.

But base on my memory. It was just one side assaulted. The people that maybe injured was the weaker strawhats.

I comment on the other points later. Too much homeworks. In the meant time check this thread out. I bet they probably have the arguments that I am going to make anyway.

The argument about the weaker SHs being insignificant appears to fail because it was the likes of Robin, Usopp, and Nami who were most significant in bringing the Pacifista down. The Monster only finished the Pacifista off after their actions caused considerable damage resulting in its malfunction. Their original trio combined attack pretty much just scratched the Pacifista. And they didn't just hit him over and over; the SHs were completely exhausted and facing various degrees of injury. And your points about the Supernovae are that they withstood the Pacifista; Urouge and Drake together successfully attacked the Pacifista, but caused only minimal damage, while they were near defeat after the Pacifista responded. The Heart and Kidd Pirates battle against the Pacifista wasn't shown, but the suggestion was that they were its opponents together, considering that Law and Kidd were portrayed as Luffy's peers in terms of ability, and their abilities were perfectly suited for that type of opponent, the Pacifista were beyond just any one Supernovae, and in the case of Zoro and Luffy and Drake and Urouge beyond two with room to spare.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

The argument about the weaker SHs being insignificant appears to fail because it was the likes of Robin, Usopp, and Nami who were most significant in bringing the Pacifista down.

I think I waste a lot of time on this already. I am more than capable of responding to you. The disagreement as it root is this.

I want the Pacifista as the ceiling of C+. You think it is way too high of a ceiling. But so is weak old White Beard to A+.

But how many Pacifista does it take to beat Enel? Oars? Post skipped Franky? Monet? CC? Hmm you were focusing on 4 captains correct

How about Enel vs 4 Pacifista? Oars vs 4 Pacifista? Franky vs 4 Pacifista? CC? Monet? Sai? Crocodile?


---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

Upcourse in case of X Drake and Urouge, these will be back to back.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I think I waste a lot of time on this already. I am more than capable of responding to you. The disagreement as it root is this.

I want the Pacifista as the ceiling of C+. You think it is way too high of a ceiling. But so is weak old White Beard to A+.

But how many Pacifista does it take to beat Enel? Oars? Post skipped Franky? Monet? CC? Hmm you were focusing on 4 captains correct

How about Enel vs 4 Pacifista? Oars vs 4 Pacifista? Franky vs 4 Pacifista? CC? Monet? Sai? Crocodile?

Maybe Nico Robin can take a bit less like 2 at the same time. Who know.

OK, we've already established there are other issues with your ranking. Some have pointed out these other issues. As for the others, they're in levels that I've already pointed out have issues. I can't answer each of your questions with certainty because we haven't seen those battles play out, and we haven't even seen Oars fight (at least not as himself), but when we have seen specific battles play out, its simple to use them as an indicator. The point about the Pacifista remains, as a ceiling it is significantly higher than most of the other groups and is jarring. It goes along with the criticism of A-, which appears to have the opposite problem. The levels are inconsistent and the Pacifista's placement is one that is seemingly more glaring than others.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

OK, we've already established there are other issues with your ranking.

As stated, it isn't perfect and subject to change but not extreme changes that I don't agree with logically. I don't particular care for your tone. You sound like I am burden you and others for sharing my ranking. Also, why don't mentioned some of the more idiotic statements too on this thread? You think my arguments are flaw in nature. But guess what buddies, base on some of the things you said, you are not any better. But I will say you are much better than the guy who think Enel = other admirals.

Oars

irrelevant, when we talk about Ryumma. We are talking about the one with Brook shadow. When we are talking about Oars, we are talking about him having Luffy shadow.

It goes along with the criticism of A-, which appears to have the opposite problem. The levels are inconsistent and the Pacifista's placement is one that is seemingly more glaring than others.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/forums/showthread.php?17540-Luffy-preskip-vs.-Pacifista

Do you know what this thread tell me??

It tell me that people actually think those two are on about the same level. Maybe your view is more of an outliner.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

There are plenty of chapters feature the Pacifista. The brainless idiot always let people hit it unlike Rob Lucci. I meant commonn even the weaker strawhats get a hit in.

You do see the battle between Luffy vs Lucci, Luffy vs Moriah. Luffy are capable of tanking attack while execute continuous attack.

And we didn't even take to consider his gear stack during the fight of Moriah.

Plus Luffy mobility. I don't recall Luffy being hit by a Pacifista (though I may be wrong). Through out the pre time skipped. If he want he can just dance around.

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Aside from Smoker who you think will lost to the Pacifista (lmao).

Compare these 2 gaps:
1) Pacifista and the weakest of the B-
2) Pacifista and the strongest of C+

You make it sounds like gap 2 is gigantic compare to gap 1.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

As stated, it isn't perfect and subject to change but not extreme changes that I don't agree with logically. I don't particular care for your tone. You sound like I am burden you and others for sharing my ranking. Also, why don't mentioned some of the more idiotic statements too on this thread? You think my arguments are flaw in nature. But guess what buddies, base on some of the things you said, you are not any better. But I will say you are much better than the guy who think Enel = other admirals.

Hey, if you decide to put up a ranking system, and can't bear criticism, you could just not post. You posted, you asked, we answered. The fact that you've already made numerous changes to the ranking based on some of my criticism along with that of others show that it could use some work. People have various opinions that contradict one another, and sometimes individuals make statements that are inaccurate, it happens to everyone; its a manga that's been going on for more than a decade, there's a lot of room for error.

irrelevant, when we talk about Ryumma. We are talking about the one with Brook shadow. When we are talking about Oars, we are talking about him having Luffy shadow.

I just don't see the point of including deceased individuals whose abilities were dependent on whatever shadow they were on at the time; their powers are inherently variable and dependent on Moriah.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/forums/showthread.php?17540-Luffy-preskip-vs.-Pacifista

Do you know what this thread tell me??

It tell me that people actually think those two are on about the same level. Maybe your view is more of an outliner.

I've seen the thread, you've already posted this link. And while there were those who thought that Luffy was a match, there were others, like me, who thought Luffy would be out of his league, and those people utilised the same source as I did; the manga.

There are plenty of chapters feature the Pacifista. The brainless idiot always let people hit it unlike Rob Lucci. I meant commonn even the weaker strawhats get a hit in.

You do see the battle between Luffy vs Lucci, Luffy vs Moriah. Luffy are capable of tanking attack while execute continuous attack.

And we didn't even take to consider his gear stack during the fight of Moriah.

Plus Luffy mobility. I don't recall Luffy being hit by a Pacifista (though I may be wrong). Through out the pre time skipped. If he want he can just dance around.

The Pacifista took a lot of blows because it decided to fight multiple opponents that could attack as they chose and support one another. Everytime it turned to respond to an attack there was someone else already on the offensive or in the way. And despite those numbers, it remained pretty much unharmed while being able to injure its opponents until Usopp happened to get it to swallow one of his attacks.

Aside from Smoker who you think will lost to the Pacifista (lmao).

I don't remember addressing a Smoker v Pacifista possibility, I did speak on Smoker v CC and Enel. However, for the record, I do believe a Pacifista could take pre-skip Smoker.

Compare these 2 gaps:
1) Pacifista and the weakest of the B-
2) Pacifista and the strongest of C+

You make it sounds like gap 2 is gigantic compare to gap 1.[/b]

Well, considering that I consider the Pacifista to be superior to at least one member of B-, I'd say the second gap would be much larger. But this seems useless in the context of my opinion because I've already said that I disagree with individuals beyond the Pacifistas within both B- and C+.

 

[Ninomiya]

I just want to put out something to those who may feel Enel is Admiral. Since that concept is absurd.

Before I decide on the Enel issue, I was wondering if people were aware that Enel is FAR from being out of people's reach with his Speed.
The element of Light is way, way, way faster than the element of Lightning. So if Kizaru can be hit by other characters than Enel most certainly can too.

Of course it has to be noted that the only people who have been shown or implied to be able to hit Kizaru are extremely high level characters such as Rayleigh, Marco and Benn Beckman.

More importantly, Enel has an appalling pain threshold. Many punches from the Skypiea!Luffy was enough to defeat.
Anybody near the Admiral level would be able to take Luffy's punches back at Skypiea comfortably they'd probably be able to relax through those sort of punches considering Luffy was much weaker at Skypiea than he was at Marineford.

 

[weixiaobao]

I just want to put out something to those who may feel Enel is Admiral. Since that concept is absurd.

Thank you for everyone that participate in this thread. Even if our argument got heated and or I seemingly like a bone head who don't understand anything. I greatly appreciate this. Once my final week is over and I start studying on the PCAT. I will resume my battle of words with you guys.

Nothing is perfect. I hope by debating, we will come to some sort of consensus to make the ranking much much much better.

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

Hmm, yeah I guess so.

So so so so so so very sorry for not responding to you like at all for your last few posts. Will do sometimes in the future.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

But why don't you guys argue with each others. I meant clearly Airgrimes' view is different than the others. Likewise, not every statement coming from a single individual are perfect (especially me). I rather have somebody who have the same view that I have but offer some reasons that are differently than me too.

It will be interesting to read them after a week.

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

Hey, if you decide to put up a ranking system, and can't bear criticism, you could just not post. You posted, you asked, we answered. The fact that you've already made numerous changes to the ranking based on some of my criticism along with that of others show that it could use some work. People have various opinions that contradict one another, and sometimes individuals make statements that are inaccurate, it happens to everyone; its a manga that's been going on for more than a decade, there's a lot of room for error.

Up course, I know this. All I am saying is just this. If you think I am flaw, so are you. Just open to the possibility that not all of your opinions are correct. Base on your opinions, what I seemed that are valids but contradict to me. I change it. I view it is a good thing. But you used that again me, because I change 1 or 2 things, you conclude every damn things on there is wrong except for what you think is right. I meant if that is a case, then your own ranking would satisfy you the most (no one else can). I rather come to consensus instead of changing everything. The GOP and the Democrats will come to agreement from time to time. But they are not going to change their entire platform to please another person. I used the Pacifista as a standard for C+ (my platform). If you felt none can stand the Pacifista, then they get the hell out of C+. I won't make the Pacifista into B-. Do you see that, it like meter and or pound. Two entirely different systems.

I will read all of your posts and response back in detail sometimes soon.

But till then, "IF" I give you the power to make 3 changes without any opposition. What would you do?

I don't this thread as me vs everyone in individual matches. You probably disagree with others. But you don't voice them. So are the others to you.

Once I am off like couple of days. This thread is dead. >___< geez.

 

[MBVC]

Foxy and Perona are wild cards in this case, they are useful in very specific way. For an example: Perona could take out >99,000 pirates on fishman island but she's as weak as any normal person. Anyone who is affected by Foxy time beam is also as good as dead, because the stupid plot that Foxy didn't throw Luffy out the sea otherwise the fight ended short.

I wonder if pre-timeskip Apoo could destroy a Pacifista by himself.

 

[weixiaobao]

Foxy and Perona are wild cards in this case, they are useful in very specific way. For an example: Perona could take out >99,000 pirates on fishman island but she's as weak as any normal person. Anyone who is affected by Foxy time beam is also as good as dead, because the stupid plot that Foxy didn't throw Luffy out the sea otherwise the fight ended short.

I wonder if pre-timeskip Apoo could destroy a Pacifista by himself.

Hmm, Foxy doesn't have the speed. And he is an idiot. Against an incompetent character, he may have the edge. But with with more capable characters, he just lose out. Oh, and he can't really use all of his cheap tricks like he did with Luffy.

Perona is an interesting case, but I do believe there should be some cap to her power.

 

[MBVC]

Even though Perona does have a cap on her power, she still can take out at least half of the NW pirate population, I think she's the ultimate weapon of mass depression after the big 3 ancient all time powerful weapons.

Anyway, the prime Chinjiao should be above Jozu level by considering how the old Garp took out Marco, right now Luffy is as strong as Garp during the war is my most generous estimation of him. In order to become pirate king, Luffy >>>> prime Sengoku + prime Garp.

 

[floman]

Rank the Shichibukai

Hi this is my first time making a thread and I'm not sure if there is already a thread on this topic, but I wanted to make a thread (different from the normal ranking thread) to try and rank the current and former Shichibukai in order of strength.

The 10 Shichibukai that we know are: Crocodile, Moriah, Hancock, Kuma, Law, Doflamingo, Mihawk, Blackbeard, Jinbei and Buggy.

So from weakest to strongest I would say:

Buggy< Moriah < Hancock < Crocodile < Law=Jinbei < Kuma < Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard.

I want this thread to be a concentrated argument about only the Shichibukai as opposed to the general ranking thread. Comment with what you think of my ratings and what you would put as your own rankings.

 

[Ace4]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I see Kuma stronger than Mihawk and Doflamingo. His ability is Hax and now he has Kizarus laser as well. On the other hand he got some damage in 2 years of guarding the Sunny but we don't know who attacked him. Probably some random marines and pirates but not an Admiral so he is probably weaker than Blackbeard.

 

[Pigov]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

your rank him above mihawk and dofla, but suspect that "random marines and pirates" damaged him that much ? Anyways, i too believe he is pretty strong.

The lower tier seems pretty clear:
Buggy < Moriah. Not much need for arguments here imho.

Then it becomes tricky. Its heavily implied that Boa Hancock is one of the strongest characters out there in OP universe, but despite a haki imbued kick into smokers face and her ability to petrify fodder-guys, we havent seen much from her.
Same goes for Crocodile. Does he even posess haki ? Probably, as oda stated, his bounty would have been ridicolous if they knew that he was the baroque works leader. But then again... bounty doesnt equal fighting prowess (see hancock) and if he had haki, luffy would have been no match for him in hand to hand combat at that time, even if he negated his logia with sand and blood. In my opinion, we can expect a huge "power up" from crocodile when we see him next time around, because i think oda had no idea how huge his power levels would become by then, including haki, at least the way he introduced it later. So i would even call the crocodile vs luffy fight kind of "non canon", or at least consider it a "remnant of the "old" one piece".
Since thats all just guessings, i would still rank crocodile < hanckock next.

Havent seen much from jinbei, so as it is now, iam going to rank laws absolutely hax DF above jinbeis haki and fishmen karate, just because i assume that jinbei already maxed out his potential, even though he is probably still superior when it comes to a 1on1 situation, he might not be as versatile as law is. so
jinbei < Law.
I agree with kuma < dofla < mihawk.
Kuma might be a beast with a hax DF, but observation haki should help you prevent getting hit, and we have no clue about the limits of cyborgs in terms of speed and combat intellect. Dofla has kings haki and i guess that "means something". Iam only ranking mihawk above these two because of the respect everyone has for him and the fact hat his limits are a well kept secret. If we take zoro as the future 2nd strongest guy in the world and mihawk is his benchmark, i assume him to be at least the second strongest samurai so far.
Blackbeard is obviously number one. Yeah he was afraid of sengoku and fled after the war of the strongest, but he didnt seemed to have hit his limits and now he even got hold of the earthquakefruits powers, and he is the main antagonist, i assume, until we get more infos about the role of akainu and the other yonkou.

so my final list is


Buggy< Moriah < Crocodile < Hancock < Jinbei < Law< Kuma < Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard.

 

[uberfayt]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Don't underestimate hancock, she was able to break a pacifista's head with just slaping it (in comparison with luffy who used a haki powered jet pistol to do the same)...So for me, buggy << crocodile = law = moria < jinbei=hancock < doflamingo=kuma=mihawk < blackbeard. This is just fo the sake of fun, cuz in one piece ( unless specified by oda himself) there is no precise way to determine some hierarchy or categorization of the characters in terms of their potential or power, you have to take into account physical strength, DF ability, haki mastery...

 

[floman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I don't know about that. I think the main reason hancock was able to destroy so easily was because the pacifistas were not defending themselves. Since she was seen as an ally they did not attack her and left themselves open for an easy attack.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I don't know why Moriah is so heavily underestimated. I don't see how Croc ranks ahead of him based on what we've seen. A juiced up Luffy significantly stronger than the one that defeated Croc defeated him and Jinbei, who is pretty much his worst counter. Although, it's probably easier to place them in tiers.

Buggy
Crocodile
Moriah
Jinbei, Law
Hancock, Doflamingo, Mihawk
Blackbeard

This isn't a comment on potential match-ups, but a general look at ability level. And it should also be pointed out that the rates of growth of Law and Buggy are likely to greatly exceed the others, who've pretty much peaked. Moriah is another Shichibukai who one might see drastic changes in level, since we've been lead to believe that the Moriah we saw was a pale imitation of the powerful pirate he used to be; upon his return he could very well be at comparable in level to Mihawk or Hancock.

 

[amizou]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Buggy is the weakest, and just after him it's Moria.

Hancock=Crocodile=Law=Jinbei, Icant really think of who is stronger between these 4, I know crocodile were beaten by Luffy but I think he was shown much stronger after the prison break as i remember he KOed one of the 3 beasts with just one hit and with ease then in the war he was standing his ground against Flamingo and the 3rd captain of the whitebeard, even it wasn't a full fight but Oda was shown us in which league he belongs, of course after 2 years in the new world he should possess haki now and not forgetting his logia devil fruit. As for Hancock she is a master of Haki and we saw how easy she has beaten Smoker and how easy she broke a pacifista. Nothing to say about Jinbei and Law.

Doflamingo is shown many times that he is in a superior league than the other except Mihawk from how much he is feared even from the marines, I think he is an Admiral level, as the strongest swordsman in the world he should be even close to a Yonkou in terms of fight abilities, from what we know about him he is not really a pirate and I think he never has a crew or was in a crew from my point of view if he was interested in one piece and in becoming pirate king he could have been a yonkou just like Shank, and last Blackbeard, we all agree about him being the strongest.

My ranking is not about brute strength and who is the stronger but in which league they belong.

Buggy<< Moriah < Hancock = Crocodile = Law = Jinbei < Kuma = Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard.

 

[modoki]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

To be honest in terms of strength I really think doflamingo and Mohawk are both at the top.

 

[Josef]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Kuma is a bit underestimated ... simply because he is not a total freak going after the SH crew, when they were first introduced Kuma and Dofla were kind of equal to me, THE TWO SCARY GOVERNMENT DOGS! But after that we saw their personality and intentions and suddenly Dofla is the big bad scary villain AND STRONG, and Kuma is just the guy that helped the SH crew. Kuma "defeated" the SH crew, ofc he had good intentions but still they were not even able to touch him, same with the war ... Kuma was really good, he was not in the spotlight that much but still he showed exactly why he should be feared.

I would not easily just place Dofla ... maybe even Mihawk for that matter over him, seeing as how we have yet to see the true potential of Kuma, he does things calmly, and now totally calmly, lol.

 

[Pigov]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I don't see how Croc ranks ahead of him based on what we've seen. A juiced up Luffy significantly stronger than the one that defeated Croc defeated him

Dont underestimate the power of "negating elements". Eneru would have been worth 500 mio berry +x but still was defeated by his "natural opponent" ruffy. Same goes for ruffys fight against croc, taking the circumstances. So like i said in my first post, ruffys fight against crocodile cant be taken as a real measure...at least thats what iam guessing for further developement