Discussion Smoker Vs Ace, who wouldve really won?

[VAArmOOs]

Your argument would be valid if Ace tried to stop Akainu. If he had become intangible, Akainu would have passed through him and directly hit Luffy who would be dead. Ace tried to save Luffy at all costs so by taking in his fist he protected Luffy. Besides if Ace wasn't shown to use CoA, then the same could be said about all those who were at Marineford, some were hinted to use it, but alas we don't have any definite proof of them having it. I really don't see how Ace couldn't have know about CoA since he's in the new world and most big shots know about haki, in fact it has become rather common ever since we reached the new world.So it would make sense that he had a least one or two types, and he's not supposed to master it, just know how to use it.Again the concept of Haki while he appeared very early in the manga, wasn't developed to much later, imagine what it would be like if Luffy had learned how to use it before going to Marineford, Ace wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself to save his little brother.

I'm sorry, but I am not sure I understood your argument. "IF Ace tried to stop Akainu"? He tried to stop akainu:
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-46758-13/one-piece/chapter-573.html

And that's the point. It is clear in the image and text that Ace an Akainu punch at the same time with their respective powers, i.e fire and magma. Then we see Ace's "Fire fist" (good hint) being burned by the suposedly superior magma. Oda even reinforces the idea that his fire element is overpowered by magma by writing that in Akainu's speach. Meaning, Ace's "Logia intagibility" i.e. becoming fire can't protect him from magma, that is why that when they hit each other it connects instead of passing through him. The same could be said when Akainu punches Ace through the chest. Even if he was fire at that time he would have been killed.
This means that my argument stands, not flawlessly of course, because Oda can still say in the future that Ace had other types of haki.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I'm sorry, but I am not sure I understood your argument. "IF Ace tried to stop Akainu"? He tried to stop akainu:
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-46758-13/one-piece/chapter-573.html

And that's the point. It is clear in the image and text that Ace an Akainu punch at the same time with their respective powers, i.e fire and magma. Then we see Ace's "Fire fist" (good hint) being burned by the suposedly superior magma. Oda even reinforces the idea that his fire element is overpowered by magma by writing that in Akainu's speach. Meaning, Ace's "Logia intagibility" i.e. becoming fire can't protect him from magma, that is why that when they hit each other it connects instead of passing through him. The same could be said when Akainu punches Ace through the chest. Even if he was fire at that time he would have been killed.
This means that my argument stands, not flawlessly of course, because Oda can still say in the future that Ace had other types of haki.

What I meant is that when Akainu attacked Luffy instead of avoiding the hit by becoming intangible, Ace took the hit to protect Luffy, of course Oda showed that magma was stronger than fire(in the manga not in real life) but I still think that he didn't try to avoid that last punch, on the contrary. I guess I didn't formulate it quite right.
For now let's just say that the Haki concept wasn't really developed, in fact it was just getting introduced properly, this was prolly the right course of action from Oda as it would have completely changed the story.

 

[VAArmOOs]

What I meant is that when Akainu attacked Luffy instead of avoiding the hit by becoming intangible, Ace took the hit to protect Luffy, of course Oda showed that magma was stronger than fire(in the manga not in real life) but I still think that he didn't try to avoid that last punch, on the contrary. I guess I didn't formulate it quite right.
For now let's just say that the Haki concept wasn't really developed, in fact it was just getting introduced properly, this was prolly the right course of action from Oda as it would have completely changed the story.

All right, that settles it.
And my veridict to Ace vs Smoker is in favour to Ace, a draw pre time skip. Ace would have win now because I believe his haki might be fully developed.

 

[HereNThere]

I couldn't care less for Moria, what a waste of character, but Crocodile.... it actually always bugged me how he appears not to have Haki, if you think about it it would have allowed him to be more efficient with his DF. Nevertheless I think being part of one of the Yonko's crew makes you stronger than some shichibukai. Again this might have been done purposely by Oda so it doesn't matter that much.

I actually have some high hopes for Moriah, weird as that sounds. But yeah, that bothers me with Crocoboy as well. But as you said, the Haki concept probably wasn't fully developed during their respective arc appearances so it was probably "ignored" for story purposes.

I think we should make this topic a bit more interesting. Let's have current Smoker, Haki and all, go up against Ace with Haki. I believe that would be a more interesting fight.

 

[amidaru312]

The whole reason why i created the thread is to debate that battle, at that time, with all the things that was revealed then. When that scene happened, we didn't know how strong WB was, so wouldn't have known how strong ace has had to be, hence leaving us to speculate the variable of just how strong ace was based on what he showed, smoker by then in terms of power measure in that arch chapter 100 ish, was considered to be pretty strong, good enough to kick luffys ass.

So then, without haki, or even the fact that WB is the strongest pirate there was, who would've won?

Or rather, smoke smoke or fire fire fruit, which would win?

 

[Fox666]

I thought it functioned like Haki? He managed hit Ace in the neck without completely holding him or touching him. Unless it was a by product of him using Kurozu before hand?

I meant what Blackbeard said here:

Haki only helps to attack a Devil Fruit user. Even Kairoseki only weakens a Devil Fruit user (i.e. Luffy would still be made of rubber), but it sounded like Blackbeard can completely remove the Devil Fruit ability.

 

[takneeque]

Or rather, smoke smoke or fire fire fruit, which would win?

smoke wins over fire easily.fire needs air and smoke can cut off air from fire.

 

[jamarTheDem]

smoke wins over fire easily.fire needs air and smoke can cut off air from fire.

No smoke and fire are even . It's a proving fact . We seen the fight , Smoker's smoke disappeared while Ace's fire was still at the battleground while He'd escape . If it came down to hand to hand combat , just like Luffy Ace was called a fighting genius . Even stronger than Luffy . We can only go off pretimeskip knowledge . Also Ace used Haki when he was a child , Luffy didn't use it to he was 17 .

 

[takneeque]

^^
i was just responding to the op's question of which element overpowers the other.fire can do nothing to smoke but smoke can block oxygen which basically extinguishes fire.not that it would matter in the manga.

No smoke and fire are even . It's a proving fact . We seen the fight , Smoker's smoke disappeared while Ace's fire was still at the battleground while He'd escape .

fire on the ground!!? what's that supposed to mean?i would say you are just extrapolating the info and i just don't think that's a good enough proof.on the basis of manga facts,i can't say anything for sure.the data is limited and we can only speculate.

 

[jamarTheDem]

^^
i was just responding to the op's question of which element overpowers the other.fire can do nothing to smoke but smoke can block oxygen which basically extinguishes fire.not that it would matter in the manga.



fire on the ground!!? what's that supposed to mean?i would say you are just extrapolating the info and i just don't think that's a good enough proof.on the basis of manga facts,i can't say anything for sure.the data is limited and we can only speculate.

I said battleground that means anywhere a fights break out . I'm going off the manga and the anime . Smoker himself said the fight would be useless if it cakes down to their respected Logia abilities . Could I say your extrapolating information when your saying smoke can block oxygen ? Because that wasn't stated by smoker himself or explained by Oda . I'm not speculating I'm going off proving facts from the anime/manga .

If it comes to Devil Fruit abilities from before the timeskip they would be even .

In fighting skills Ace would topple Smoker .

We can't judge Haki although we know Ace had atlease one form .

 

[takneeque]

^^

hey man,what i said was independent of the manga ..it was my opinion and i agree to the view that ace had to be much stronger than smoker in physical strength and fighting skills..that apart,could you provide a link which proves their devil fruits to be equal?thanks.

 

[KungPaoChicken]

Ace would totally smoke Smoker. Haha any body the pun?

But Enel would bang the shizz out of both of them. But that's a totally different topic. But Ace fire spirt bomb technique would give him the total advantage. Plus being with Whitebeart and all the experience he's gained, its safe to assume that he is the stronger one here.

 

[jamarTheDem]

^^

hey man,what i said was independent of the manga ..it was my opinion and i agree to the view that ace had to be much stronger than smoker in physical strength and fighting skills..that apart,could you provide a link which proves their devil fruits to be equal?thanks.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MabiEztLUB0[/video] have this link . I'm pretty sure every version will say the Same thing . Smoker say they are even .

But here: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piec...Vol-018-Ch-158--Docking-at-Alabasta?id=199628 before they fought Ace said he's stronger then Smoker , which was proven differently when they actually fought . Also Ace pretty much ran away but that's because he wanted to see his brother and ultimately wanted to kill Blackbeard .

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM ----------

Ace would totally smoke Smoker. Haha any body the pun?

But Enel would bang the shizz out of both of them. But that's a totally different topic. But Ace fire spirt bomb technique would give him the total advantage. Plus being with Whitebeart and all the experience he's gained, its safe to assume that he is the stronger one here.

I'm saying . You seen all the moves Ace showcased when he was fighting Blackbeard ? Crazy . Anybody with a normal body would get murdered .

 

[takneeque]

^^
i think ace was boasting but i get why smoke can't overpower fire so easily.it's coz ace had lot's of experience using that df which gives him lots of maneuverability and that's why i think smoker won't be able to subdue ace.i stand corrected and so,my conclusion is that ace wins the fight hands down with or without the df.

 

[Zeta42]

Vice Admirals never win in One Piece (unless their name is Garp), and Smoker wasn't even one back then. Ace would wreck him.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Vice Admirals never win in One Piece (unless their name is Garp), and Smoker wasn't even one back then. Ace would wreck him.

I don't agree . VA power range . We still never seen every VA .

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Ace would wreck him. As much as I like smoker he wouldn't stand a chance in hell.

 

[amidaru312]

I think you guys are totally undermining smoker close combat abilities..... Smoker basically took down law post time skip even when law was at his prime.

 

[Fox666]

What...? Smoker got his ass kicked by Law.

 

[kkck]

To be honest I would argue that smoker today would get his ass kicked by ace. The anime is irrelevant here... Anyways, ace as far as we know showed his potential for haki as a kid, way earlier than luffy, he was a haki user (though we never saw the extent of that) and overall a pirate that earned a 550 mil bounty as one of WB's commanders. Smoker from 2 years ago was cannon fodder in the grand scheme of things, he was at best a mid tier ranked marine with a strong fruit and no real strength to speak of. Smoker barely got to do anything at the war. 2 years ago the only noteworthy thing about him was his fruit, we know that is not even remotely close to enough against NW pirates. Smoker today did not even do that well against law.