Discussion Just how strong is Marco exactly?

amidaru312

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Okay so we know being #2 in WB crew demands some strength, but just how much? Could he be able to defeat luffy? or could luffy win with a lot of trouble?
 

McNuss

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Luffy would never be able to defeat him. He's immortal. Post-Skip Luffy could possibly fight him to a draw, whith both being to exhausted to continue.
 

Impossibility

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He's at the level of an Admiral, that says enough. The Gorosei considered him a possible contender for the role of Yonkou, and one of the few capable of taking on Blackbeard. He's probably one of the most powerful people we've seen in action. His fruit effectively ensures that to defeat him you've pretty much got to one-shot him or take away his abilities, and along with that he has some pretty impressive attack power despite his DF's primarily defensive capabilities.
 

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His strength is unknown, but we can assume he can take on an admiral and likely win, and even become a Yonkou. I am not sure if he can beat Blackbeard though, given the yami yami no mi.

---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

Well, first sentence was not phrased right.

I mean that he's strong enough to become a Yonkou, according to Gorosei, so that means he's pretty high up there. Might not be Whitebeard level, but he could probably fight on par with the other Yonkou and given his fruit, survive.
 

McNuss

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I think you all overrate him quite a bit here though.

He is invulnerable thanks to his fruit and that is his greatest strenght. Aside from that he's likely an expert at Haki and Zoan based Martial Arts. His kick was strong enough to send Ki Zaru flying....

however it did no damage. He attacked Akainu with Haki and even together with another strong crewmate capable of using Haki and it did no damage.

Without a doubt Marco is one of the most powerful characters we have met yet. However I don't think his offensive powers are enough to defeat one of the three Pre-Skip Admirals.
 

amidaru312

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McNuss, yea i agree with you, I don't think he could defeat any of the admirals, I think the admirals are the biggest tank there is, they're so overwhelmingly strong, Marco wouldn't stand a chance, at best I think marco could hold A admirals off for a bit then run away himself without dying. He'll definitely have trouble with akainu or aokiji.

Also, he was kind of useless in the war, like most of WB division captains, he was just all over the place, he could've taken the time to wipe out the bigger players, maybe not admirals but the VA... but instead he was just all over the place.
 

jamarTheDem

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Marco has to be stronger then Ace . Weaker than Whitebeard (from two years ago) it's not impossible to say Marco and the Whitebeard pirates been training . I'm pretty sure Marco is stronger then Sabo and Issho in combative strength . Especially efficient in Devil Fruit mastery . Tbh I agree Marco needed to be a Yonkou of his "own" crew if anything he needs to ally with either Shanks or Dragon and the revolutionary army .
 

desin24

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McNuss, yea i agree with you, I don't think he could defeat any of the admirals, I think the admirals are the biggest tank there is, they're so overwhelmingly strong, Marco wouldn't stand a chance, at best I think marco could hold A admirals off for a bit then run away himself without dying. He'll definitely have trouble with akainu or aokiji.

Also, he was kind of useless in the war, like most of WB division captains, he was just all over the place, he could've taken the time to wipe out the bigger players, maybe not admirals but the VA... but instead he was just all over the place.
Since we have not been properly introduced to haki all new world pirates and vice admiral/admirals were nerfed during the whitebeard war. Oda could not show them go all out without revealing things that were for later like the black hardening, which he might not even have thought of at that point of time and more.

Him and others displaying what they got would have spoiled too much of the story Oda want's to tell.

As others have said, the Gorosei consider him along with the 3 Yonkou as pirates that have the potential to stop Blackbeard. That was after he aquired the gura gura no mi. If the Gorosei see him as yonkou level then IMO that's Oda telling us in what tier he is.
I firmly believe that as individuals Yonkou and Admirals are in the same tier and could all possibly kill each other without anyone overpowering the other and Marco is right up there with them.
 

Madness20

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I would say Marco is stronger than the likes of jinbei and kuma, but weaker than mihawk and doflamingo in comparison to the shichibukai, i doubt Marco has haoshoku and is capable of fighting on equal ground against them. So i guess this would make marco being worthy of a 500 million berries.
 

McNuss

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Since we have not been properly introduced to haki all new world pirates and vice admiral/admirals were nerfed during the whitebeard war. Oda could not show them go all out without revealing things that were for later like the black hardening, which he might not even have thought of at that point of time and more.
No one was nerfed there. The black hardening is likely nothing new, but just a graphic detail to explictly show whether Haki is used or not. At least that's how I see it. In fact it makes no sense for the New World Pirates not to go all out if they wanted a chance of rescuing Ace. The Marines on the other hand didn't need to go all out because all they had to do was to stop them from reaching the scaffold.

As others have said, the Gorosei consider him along with the 3 Yonkou as pirates that have the potential to stop Blackbeard. That was after he aquired the gura gura no mi. If the Gorosei see him as yonkou level then IMO that's Oda telling us in what tier he is.
I firmly believe that as individuals Yonkou and Admirals are in the same tier and could all possibly kill each other without anyone overpowering the other and Marco is right up there with them.
Yonkou is not a powerlevel. It is a title you get when you are one of the four most influential Pirates in the New World. Marco took over the Whitebeard Pirates, and since they are like a big family, all their allies likely as well. He also became the ruler of Whitebeard's territories, but failed to keep them all.

As you can see, he just met the requirements of becoming a Yonkou. It has nothing to do with strenght, but with power. He had what was needed to stop Blackbeard, at least on the paper, and that's why the Gorosei considered him.

If Marco could kill an Admiral, how come he couldn't scratch Akainu?
 

amidaru312

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I would say Marco is stronger than the likes of jinbei and kuma, but weaker than mihawk and doflamingo in comparison to the shichibukai, i doubt Marco has haoshoku and is capable of fighting on equal ground against them. So i guess this would make marco being worthy of a 500 million berries.
I definitely think Marco is stronger than Doffy. Easily.
 

Madness20

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I definitely think Marco is stronger than Doffy. Easily.
I disagree with you then. Doflamingo has clearly shown he doesn't really fear admirals or shichibukais, actually, the only person he seems to fear is kaidou, and that's probably because kaidou seems to have a huge army against which Doflamingo has no answer by himself or his crew.
 

milek

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Luffy would never be able to defeat him. He's immortal. Post-Skip Luffy could possibly fight him to a draw, whith both being to exhausted to continue.
He's not immortal. He will die if you drop him in the sea.

Admiral got him couple of times and he would probably lost to Magellan.
 

amidaru312

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I disagree with you then. Doflamingo has clearly shown he doesn't really fear admirals or shichibukais, actually, the only person he seems to fear is kaidou, and that's probably because kaidou seems to have a huge army against which Doflamingo has no answer by himself or his crew.
Well then if what you're saying is true, then by that logic then luffy is screwed right now?
 

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Well then if what you're saying is true, then by that logic then luffy is screwed right now?
At the moment of the manga Luffy didn't show that he could pose a threat to Doffly alone.... It's the first time that an opponent of Luffy is surpassing him in pure combat skill (aside Ace ^^)
Crocodile and Magellan defeated him with their super powerfull fruit.
And Santemoru has mastery of defense haki (but we don't know what would happen with a 100% Luffy in different situation).
 

I Am Atomic

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Undefeatable! I still doesn't know how anyone can defeat him. He can heal pretty fast so people like luffy doesn't stand a chance, even after TS. It's just like the all knowing Kizaru said: a devil fruit power rarer than logia; the mythical zoan!!!!!! So it is better than a logia.
 

desin24

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Undefeatable! I still doesn't know how anyone can defeat him. He can heal pretty fast so people like luffy doesn't stand a chance, even after TS. It's just like the all knowing Kizaru said: a devil fruit power rarer than logia; the mythical zoan!!!!!! So it is better than a logia.
You just need enough endurance and to hit him often enough. Oda said in an SBS that Marco can't heal indefinitely and that there are limits to his powers.
 

StJimmy

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You just need enough endurance and to hit him often enough. Oda said in an SBS that Marco can't heal indefinitely and that there are limits to his powers.
Right! I mean think how much energy he spends to heal - we don't see him tired but he's a top tier fighter living for quite some time in the New World. And if we take the bounties in account, I can only guess he had one above or level with Ace, so at least 550kk. You don't give a bounty so high to weaklings. Add the most rare of DF and being a freaking PHOENIX! I mean anyone can be killed but he'd be one tough cookie.
 

desin24

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Right! I mean think how much energy he spends to heal - we don't see him tired but he's a top tier fighter living for quite some time in the New World. And if we take the bounties in account, I can only guess he had one above or level with Ace, so at least 550kk. You don't give a bounty so high to weaklings. Add the most rare of DF and being a freaking PHOENIX! I mean anyone can be killed but he'd be one tough cookie.
He was already part of WB's crew when he clashed with GolD Roger. Which means he is a Veteran of the New World. Who knows he might even have been told by Whitebeard about the One Piece and will help Luffy guide to it, Shanks is of course the most obvious possibility and Buggy^^

Bounty does not necessarily equal strength since there are many factors but Marco definitely has a huge bounty.
I'm wondering if full body armament would make Marco into a black phoenix(amaterasu looks horrible so nothing like that)?
 

StJimmy

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He was already part of WB's crew when he clashed with GolD Roger. Which means he is a Veteran of the New World. Who knows he might even have been told by Whitebeard about the One Piece and will help Luffy guide to it, Shanks is of course the most obvious possibility and Buggy^^

Bounty does not necessarily equal strength since there are many factors but Marco definitely has a huge bounty.
I'm wondering if full body armament would make Marco into a black phoenix(amaterasu looks horrible so nothing like that)?
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that he's so old. He aged well :P
But do you really think Luffy would take directions to One Piece? He doesn't want that kind of help, though Marco could be a source of intel regarding the islands that Nami would use.
Well being in WB crew makes him just like Jinbe a wanted man with a high bounty and if he took over he'll get an even higher one just like Jinbe after Fisher Tiger's death. I mean you only don't get a bounty if WG hides something you did or you keep low profile (or you join Shichibukai, but that's not the same, as you did have one earlier). And Marco was considered to be a person capable of defeating BB. Also he fought on par with the Admirals. If this is weak then I don't know anymore.

Marco's Busoshoku Haki would be... He did fight with Kizaru and his light attacks went through Marco's fire like if he didn't care why would he take then head on with BH? That would mean he is easier to hit and hurt (wing span is greater than his arm span). Would look interesting but would it serve a purpose other than saving someone? The only way I see it where it could possibly been used was when Marco covered for WB after Kizaru's attack, because the light attacks go through his wings normally but stopped on them and we've seen him using wings and not his arms. Tell me your thoughts on that.
 
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