Discussion Ranking the Sins

[kkck]

If it comes to fighting I don't see gowther being that high among the sins. If anything I would argue gowther as a fighter is the weakest of the sins. He had trouble with a smaller sized diane even though her power at the time should have been only slightly superior to gilthunder/hauser. Gowther can surprise someone however when it comes to actual offensive power he is without a doubt the weakest of the sins. He has very high magic but he does not have any spells to use with it. Based on what we saw, can anyone imagine gowther vs a fully sized properly armored diane? If it comes to fighting I would rank them this way:

1.- Meliodas (with sacred treasure and demon form)
2.- Merlin (although her teleporting is a pain)
3.- Escanor (he seems to have significant plot relevance for some reason even beyond being a sin)
4.- King (although I think there is a chance that the actual full extent of his power puts him near meliodas)
5.- Ban (he is immortal but the people above just might be able to immobilize him)
6.- Diane (although she might be able to immobilize ban)
7.- Gowther (his abilities are not really good for combat).

Gowther did best dreyfus (without the interference of fraudrin) but then again we are talking about a lowly GHK against a sin... Its simply a no contest, you would need someone of a sin's caliber to actually see how gowther would do in proper combat. Not saying gowther is incompetent either, just that among the sins he is the one with the abilities not specifically meant for combat.

 

[overlordpringerx]

If it comes to fighting I don't see gowther being that high among the sins. If anything I would argue gowther as a fighter is the weakest of the sins. He had trouble with a smaller sized diane even though her power at the time should have been only slightly superior to gilthunder/hauser. Gowther can surprise someone however when it comes to actual offensive power he is without a doubt the weakest of the sins. He has very high magic but he does not have any spells to use with it. Based on what we saw, can anyone imagine gowther vs a fully sized properly armored diane? If it comes to fighting I would rank them this way:

1.- Meliodas (with sacred treasure and demon form)
2.- Merlin (although her teleporting is a pain)
3.- Escanor (he seems to have significant plot relevance for some reason even beyond being a sin)
4.- King (although I think there is a chance that the actual full extent of his power puts him near meliodas)
5.- Ban (he is immortal but the people above just might be able to immobilize him)
6.- Diane (although she might be able to immobilize ban)
7.- Gowther (his abilities are not really good for combat).

Gowther did best dreyfus (without the interference of fraudrin) but then again we are talking about a lowly GHK against a sin... Its simply a no contest, you would need someone of a sin's caliber to actually see how gowther would do in proper combat. Not saying gowther is incompetent either, just that among the sins he is the one with the abilities not specifically meant for combat.

Give this guy a medal! Finally somebody who understands my reasoning or at least seems to think similar!

 

[kkck]

We really don't know if that's his full power. His power was said to have jumped substantially, but it was never said if it was his uppermost limit. And seeing how easily he took care of Helbram, who was said to be of similar strength to a GHK, I would assume he still didn't go full on.

To add to that, helbram's power was supposed to be comparable to the GHK when the battle started. By the time king bested him, king had already taken a beating from helbram and helbram used his blind follow to apparently absorb the whole or most of the HKs raw power. He lost a few when diane hit him with ground gladius however as far as I can tell he had at least over 12 holy knights supporting him. At byzel he had 20... As far as the manga has told us GHK power seems to start from the 1800 or 1900s.... With the amount of power helbram can take and considering what seems to be the minimum for the GHK class then it would not be weird for helbram to have surpassed the 3000s. If anything if he absorbed the full raw power of everyone there then even 5000 does not seem unrealistic (20 x 300= 6000). If he took half their raw power its still a scary 3000 (enough to be a sin). If he took a quarter of their power then it still adds up to 1500 added to the GHK power helbram seemingly already had which still easily puts him above most of the sin's power levels. And king easily bested him after taking a beating... King is downright terrifying.

 

[Holt]

1.- Meliodas (with sacred treasure and demon form)
2.- Merlin (although her teleporting is a pain)
3.- Escanor (he seems to have significant plot relevance for some reason even beyond being a sin)
4.- King (although I think there is a chance that the actual full extent of his power puts him near meliodas)
5.- Ban (he is immortal but the people above just might be able to immobilize him)
6.- Diane (although she might be able to immobilize ban)
7.- Gowther (his abilities are not really good for combat).

How interesting, that was my initial ranking as well. However, on second thoughts, gowther just might be above those two. He can probably incapacitate Ban using nightmare teller
(other some other invasion move) and while Diane should have the strength to completely wreck him, I don't really see how she will cope with invasion. It passes through armors and I'd argue that breaking invasion (nightmare teller in particular) if possible will require a sizable stat in spirit. Diane has 480 in spirit which doesn't seem much.
Assuming she manages to break out, she would be mentally and physically exhausted. He also has respectable strength levels and for those reasons I think gowther is above ban and Diane.

 

[overlordpringerx]

How interesting, that was my initial ranking as well. However, on second thoughts, gowther just might be above those two. He can probably incapacitate Ban using nightmare teller
(other some other invasion move) and while Diane should have the strength to completely wreck him, I don't really see how she will cope with invasion. It passes through armors and I'd argue that breaking invasion (nightmare teller in particular) if possible will require a sizable stat in spirit. Diane has 480 in spirit which doesn't seem much.
Assuming she manages to break out, she would be mentally and physically exhausted. He also has respectable strength levels and for those reasons I think gowther is above ban and Diane.

Gowther himself said once that he would be at a disadvantage against Diane.

 

[Hansmith]

I don't think King is that strong. He only relies on his SK. Without it what he can do? Helbram showed us much more what a fairy can do. He only show us he can fly (like any other fairy).

Spoiler

If King (instead of Meliodas) was a clan Goddesses target, Ban would kill him

Don't forget that even King with SK had problems with vampires when Ban used on him Snatch. Anyway, I put King higher than Ban (both with SK) because he can counter his immortality.

Power levels with SK (excluding Escanor):

1. Meliodas
2. Merlin
3. King
4. Gowther
5. Diane
6. Ban

Without SK (excluding Escanor):

1. Meliodas
2. Merlin
3. Ban
4. Diane
5. Gowther
6. King

 

[kkck]

How interesting, that was my initial ranking as well. However, on second thoughts, gowther just might be above those two. He can probably incapacitate Ban using nightmare teller
(other some other invasion move) and while Diane should have the strength to completely wreck him, I don't really see how she will cope with invasion. It passes through armors and I'd argue that breaking invasion (nightmare teller in particular) if possible will require a sizable stat in spirit. Diane has 480 in spirit which doesn't seem much.
Assuming she manages to break out, she would be mentally and physically exhausted. He also has respectable strength levels and for those reasons I think gowther is above ban and Diane.

Well, he needs to use those techniques to begin with and even then its not necessarily an instant win. Ban is one of the faster sins, if not the fastest and his snatch is no joke. Diane in her small form was able to avoid gowther's invasion, ban would presumably be faster than her.

Diane I would argue is bound to do better against gowther given her abilities. In her true size and with her weapon I would think she'd be able to defend from gowther's attacks easily. She only needs to move a earth in front of her and that should block the technique. To add to that gowther does not even have a range advantage. Just look at her ground gladius or mother creation... Gowther can't block that at all.

Nightmare teller seems to be a technique which can only be used when directly in contact with the enemy, I am not sure of how easily gowther would be able to do this against either. Its a situation of catching ban with his speed (and risking physical hunt) or trying to touch the nice lady throwing mountains at you. Its an all around bad situation for gowther.

 

[overlordpringerx]

I don't think King is that strong. He only relies on his SK. Without it what he can do? Helbram showed us much more what a fairy can do. He only show us he can fly (like any other fairy).

Spoiler

If King (instead of Meliodas) was a clan Goddesses target, Ban would kill him

Don't forget that even King with SK had problems with vampires when Ban used on him Snatch. Anyway, I put King higher than Ban (both with SK) because he can counter his immortality.

Power levels with SK (excluding Escanor):

1. Meliodas
2. Merlin
3. King
4. Gowther
5. Diane
6. Ban

Without SK (excluding Escanor):

1. Meliodas
2. Merlin
3. Ban
4. Diane
5. Gowther
6. King

King was already really powerful without his sacred treasure. He just hasnt shown it yet. But there are hints that his ability is one of the most destructive ones. And if King was a target Ban would most likely not kill him, either because of lack of capability or because he is Elaine's brother. And of course he was having trouble when Ban used Snatch! How could you not if your power was being drained from you?! And if King wasnt powerful he wouldnt be the fucking fairy king chosen by the forest itself! Also, even without a sacred treasure he was feared so much that no kingdom dared to go against him.

 

[Hansmith]

King was already really powerful without his sacred treasure. He just hasnt shown it yet. But there are hints that his ability is one of the most destructive ones. And if King was a target Ban would most likely not kill him, either because of lack of capability or because he is Elaine's brother. And of course he was having trouble when Ban used Snatch! How could you not if your power was being drained from you?! And if King wasnt powerful he wouldnt be the fucking fairy king chosen by the forest itself! Also, even without a sacred treasure he was feared so much that no kingdom dared to go against him.

Some people think it doesn't really matter for King to use his SK when his strength is stolen. I just disagreed with him.

Perhaps but king practically doesn't utilize strength at all. Using chastefiol is effortless to him and his levitation seems pretty effortless either. I doubt sapping his strength would do much. Even if he is weakened, he just needs to move his fingers to use chastefiol. I think he can even use some moves by just calling the name of the form.

 

[Demonspeed]

All the Sins were powerful to begin with, they were the strongest. The STs make them use their tremendous power to their full potential.

I don't really get the King hype. He has tremendous power and his ST is versatile but he is essentially a glass canon, unlike Merlin he doesn't have teleportation, I consider him stronger than Ban as well but to say he can even be at Meliodas's level... Snatch is not only used for Physical Hunt.

As for the Gowther VS Diane fight was short and interrupted, Diane dodged his arrows but she is more agile in human form and it's clear that she would have never been able to beat him with her power decreased and without Gideon. She just managed to punch him, Nightmare Teller is fearsome but it's a close range attack(so fighting him at close range is also dangerous), he can shoot a massive amount of arrows and just one is enough to rewrite or read memories, Dreyfus even said that it's better to kill him before he can use his ability and both Mel and Ban don't want him to use it against them, Spirit stat can probably help to resist it but it's not like it's able to solve this forever. I put him above King because unlike him he has good physical abilities and it's very hard to deal with his body.

 

[Holt]

Well, he needs to use those techniques to begin with and even then its not necessarily an instant win. Ban is one of the faster sins, if not the fastest and his snatch is no joke. Diane in her small form was able to avoid gowther's invasion, ban would presumably be faster than her.

Diane I would argue is bound to do better against gowther given her abilities. In her true size and with her weapon I would think she'd be able to defend from gowther's attacks easily. She only needs to move a earth in front of her and that should block the technique. To add to that gowther does not even have a range advantage. Just look at her ground gladius or mother creation... Gowther can't block that at all.

Nightmare teller seems to be a technique which can only be used when directly in contact with the enemy, I am not sure of how easily gowther would be able to do this against either. Its a situation of catching ban with his speed (and risking physical hunt) or trying to touch the nice lady throwing mountains at you. Its an all around bad situation for gowther.

Diane in her normal form will be a much easier target for gowther although he is equally susceptible to her large attacks. When he uses invasion, the targets freeze, that's enough for him to touch her and use nightmare teller to incapacitate her.

Gowther has respectable strength stats too and while ban can snatch his, gowther could use invasion as a counter (Ban is usually still when he uses his ability iirc). Gowther reacted pretty fast against Dreyfus and the others (when he saved guila and also when he touched dreyfus at the same instant he attacked). Ban is mostly a close combat type and gowther just needs to touch him once to use nightmare teller (might not need to touch but let's go with that for now). Even if ban breaks out, it'll take a large enough toll on him and there's probably more to gowther as well. Merlin uses enchantment armor to suppress his ability.

 

[HereNThere]

King is far from a glass cannon. He was one of the more injured Sins during the fight with Hendy, yet he kept on pushing. King ain't going down easily. As for his hype, aside from Mel, King has had the most hype out of the Sins. He's part hype, part tragedy.

As for Gowther's combat ability, I'd say he ranks higher than Merlin. He has the perfect body for his ability. Demonspeed already mentioned it, but those who fight close quarters with him, increase the chance of him using Invasion on them. It's high risk, high reward, with the reward, more often than not, potentially being him ending the fight right there. Ban and Diane specialize in CQC so they are already pushing their luck with him. Physical Hunt can work, but as far as we know, Gowther might not need physical movement to activate Invasion, at least, looking at Blackout, he might not. Diane is practically a moving target. She's fast, but her hits might not keep Gowther down. Ground Gladius better be on point, because if she misses or he dodges, that'll leave her open. He's not a physical monster, but he can obviously do enough to keep up. If Ban can reach Bendy's speed and strength, then he can win. Anything lower than that, and he will be out.

 

[kkck]

Diane in her normal form will be a much easier target for gowther although he is equally susceptible to her large attacks. When he uses invasion, the targets freeze, that's enough for him to touch her and use nightmare teller to incapacitate her.

Gowther has respectable strength stats too and while ban can snatch his, gowther could use invasion as a counter (Ban is usually still when he uses his ability iirc). Gowther reacted pretty fast against Dreyfus and the others (when he saved guila and also when he touched dreyfus at the same instant he attacked). Ban is mostly a close combat type and gowther just needs to touch him once to use nightmare teller (might not need to touch but let's go with that for now). Even if ban breaks out, it'll take a large enough toll on him and there's probably more to gowther as well. Merlin uses enchantment armor to suppress his ability.

The generic invasion we have seen has never frozen targets. We only saw that with dreyfus on whom gowther used a presumably more powerful technique and on guila IIRC. I doubt just hitting her with a normal arrow would leave her incapacitated for even a short while. Its true she will be a larger target but her defense would also be increased. Her weapon would be pretty good to defend from the arrows. I also doubt nightmare teller can be used without touching the enemy. It would seem unnecessary for gowther to put himself in a position where dreyfus can get to him if he could do it some other way.

Along with his speed ban has actually pretty good range. His sacred treasure can seemingly increase its range for snatch or something. I doubt ban has to be still to use his ability... we have seen him move to use a number of techniques so far. Gowther had trouble hitting unarmed diane. Ban should be significantly harder than that.

 

[Demonspeed]

King is far from a glass cannon. He was one of the more injured Sins during the fight with Hendy, yet he kept on pushing. King ain't going down easily. As for his hype, aside from Mel, King has had the most hype out of the Sins. He's part hype, part tragedy.

As for Gowther's combat ability, I'd say he ranks higher than Merlin. He has the perfect body for his ability. Demonspeed already mentioned it, but those who fight close quarters with him, increase the chance of him using Invasion on them. It's high risk, high reward, with the reward, more often than not, potentially being him ending the fight right there. Ban and Diane specialize in CQC so they are already pushing their luck with him. Physical Hunt can work, but as far as we know, Gowther might not need physical movement to activate Invasion, at least, looking at Blackout, he might not. Diane is practically a moving target. She's fast, but her hits might not keep Gowther down. Ground Gladius better be on point, because if she misses or he dodges, that'll leave her open. He's not a physical monster, but he can obviously do enough to keep up. If Ban can reach Bendy's speed and strength, then he can win. Anything lower than that, and he will be out.

Glass cannon, as in glass cannon for a Sin. Meliodas is a tank, Diane even more than him, Ban has immortality, Gowther has his Doll body...

Merlin must be more of a glass cannon than him but for someone who can cancel magics, teleport with ease and has barrier powerful enough to block attacks able to destroy a city and the strength of the barrier was reduced because she increased her range...

 

[overlordpringerx]

Glass cannon, as in glass cannon for a Sin. Meliodas is a tank, Diane even more than him, Ban has immortality, Gowther has his Doll body...

Merlin must be more of a glass cannon than him but for someone who can cancel magics, teleport with ease and has barrier powerful enough to block attacks able to destroy a city and the strength of the barrier was reduced because she increased her range...

even for a sin he isnt a glass cannon. Diane needed to be healed twice while King kept his injuries yet he kept going. While I wouldnt say he has a physically strong offense, he does have a remarkable endurance. I mean Howzer and Guila are supposedly stronger than him, yet they got swat away like flies by Helbram using the sacred tree. But king was able to withstand it without protection.

 

[Demonspeed]

even for a sin he isnt a glass cannon. Diane needed to be healed twice while King kept his injuries yet he kept going. While I wouldnt say he has a physically strong offense, he does have a remarkable endurance. I mean Howzer and Guila are supposedly stronger than him, yet they got swat away like flies by Helbram using the sacred tree. But king was able to withstand it without protection.

King didn't get injured as much as Diane and Meliodas, not even close. He was slapped by Helbram a few times, he beat him easily once he became serious without getting hit, and after this I remember him getting hit by Hendrickson's Dark Nebula but he was healed by Elizabeth.

Howzer and Guila are only physically stronger, they are no match for King, I am not saying that King lacks offensive power either, his attacks are powerful and versatile, even though he is durable, compared to the other Sins it's easier to take him down, Merlin is the exception but I already talked about her magics, not counting Escanor for now though it's very unlikely that he is less durable than King during the day.

 

[overlordpringerx]

King didn't get injured as much as Diane and Meliodas, not even close. He was slapped by Helbram a few times, he beat him easily once he became serious without getting hit, and after this I remember him getting hit by Hendrickson's Dark Nebula but he was healed by Elizabeth.

Howzer and Guila are only physically stronger, they are no match for King, I am not saying that King lacks offensive power either, his attacks are powerful and versatile, even though he is durable, compared to the other Sins it's easier to take him down, Merlin is the exception but I already talked about her magics, not counting Escanor for now though it's very unlikely that he is less durable than King during the day.

when I say strong I mean body strength. Which King hasnt that much. But he has the most endurance and willpower in relation to his weak punches. And Meliodas didnt get that injured, plus he fucking reattached his own arm, so his injuries werent that bad if he could heal himself. The only moment I would consider that Meliodas was in actual danger was when he was collecting power from the sins for revenge counter. And I am not saying King has the most OVERALL endurance, just more than lots of characters. The only ones above him in that aspect are Ban, but only because he is immortal so he doesnt count, Meliodas, Diane and Escanor. But there are still aspects where he is best(long range combat, being one of the few who can permanently beat Ban, etc.) and others where he sucks (hand to hand combat for now) but he is definitely not weak. And while Diane got injured the most King was the one to stand his injuries the longest without healing them.

 

[Demonspeed]

when I say strong I mean body strength. Which King hasnt that much. But he has the most endurance and willpower in relation to his weak punches. And Meliodas didnt get that injured, plus he fucking reattached his own arm, so his injuries werent that bad if he could heal himself. The only moment I would consider that Meliodas was in actual danger was when he was collecting power from the sins for revenge counter. And I am not saying King has the most OVERALL endurance, just more than lots of characters. The only ones above him in that aspect are Ban, but only because he is immortal so he doesnt count, Meliodas, Diane and Escanor. But there are still aspects where he is best(long range combat, being one of the few who can permanently beat Ban, etc.) and others where he sucks (hand to hand combat for now) but he is definitely not weak. And while Diane got injured the most King was the one to stand his injuries the longest without healing them.

I am only comparing him to the Sins, not the others. Meliodas's injuries were far more important than King, I know he has aspects where he is best, like every other Sins, how could I even consider a Sin weak.

I am saying that he is less durable than the other Sins, I don't see how he could be more durable than Gowther. Gowther got stabbed by Dreyfus's Break, his neck was broken, he got beheaded and he was fine, King even thought he was dead. Only Ban could survive after getting beheaded.

 

[overlordpringerx]

I am only comparing him to the Sins, not the others. Meliodas's injuries were far more important than King, I know he has aspects where he is best, like every other Sins, how could I even consider a Sin weak.

I am saying that he is less durable than the other Sins, I don't see how he could be more durable than Gowther. Gowther got stabbed by Dreyfus's Break, his neck was broken, he got beheaded and he was fine, King even thought he was dead. Only Ban could survive after getting beheaded.

You have a point with Gowther but Meliodas's injuries were not that bad until he started preparing for revenge counter, where he had to take all the sins' attacks without protection, and even there I think they were at least holding back a little or he would have died. Plus Meliodas has selfhealing qualities that have been shown a bunch of times in the manga. King has so far never healed himself. But these debates are pretty stupid anyway. It's obvious all the sins still have some qualities/abilities that we are not aware of. Like Disaster (and no, it's not an amplifier), Ban's sacred treasure's abilities, Meliodas's demon side and connection wth the ten commandments' the mistery of King's wings etc. So its far too soon to assume anything.

 

[kkck]

I am only comparing him to the Sins, not the others. Meliodas's injuries were far more important than King, I know he has aspects where he is best, like every other Sins, how could I even consider a Sin weak.

I am saying that he is less durable than the other Sins, I don't see how he could be more durable than Gowther. Gowther got stabbed by Dreyfus's Break, his neck was broken, he got beheaded and he was fine, King even thought he was dead. Only Ban could survive after getting beheaded.

Durability is a murky issue all around. Meliodas has his demon based regenerative abilities. Ban is effectively immortal and has infinite stamina. Diane is a giant that can seemingly survive being pierced, in this regard she did better than meliodas when gilthunder attacked him. Gowther's body is not real... Given fraudrin's intervention we can't even tell to what extent being stabbed affected him. King is supposedly weak but he took helbram's slash rather well and survived being thrown around by helbram. Merlin is supposedly physically weak. We know nothin of escanor. With that in mind, ban is not particularly durable either. If he takes damage he will simply regenerate. Its not like he can take the damage or go otherwise unaffected by it. I guess it depends on what exactly you consider durability...